00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.11.14 00:23:15 --- quit: easy4 () 00:46:02 --- quit: amca (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00:46:14 --- quit: cmeme ("Client terminated by server") 01:35:13 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-3-138.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 01:38:47 Gday 02:36:32 --- quit: amca ("d34d") 03:25:34 --- join: ecraven (n=nex@ns.AHL.Uni-Linz.AC.AT) joined #forth 03:30:03 --- quit: FiLa (Remote closed the connection) 03:35:05 --- quit: swalters (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:26:55 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-72.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 04:28:07 Hello 04:28:59 hey amca 04:29:40 what's the stack effect of TUCK? 04:29:54 How you going ecraven ? 04:30:23 Dont know off hand, sorry. Just a newbie to Forth 04:30:33 amca: np :) i'm doing fine, thanks 04:31:05 I think it removes an element on the stack below the top of stack 04:31:05 Are you a newbie? 04:31:24 yes, in a way :) i don't know much about forth 04:31:53 In which ways are you not a n00b? 04:32:31 i'm working on a stack VM, so i learned some things about that, but i never really programmed forth 04:32:31 Im somewhat familiar with other langs, but the postfix notation of Forth is a bit unusual for what Im used to 04:33:42 hm.. if i take PICK and ROLL, i can eliminate DUP, OVER, SWAP and ROT :) 04:34:08 hehe. One of the reasons I started taking an interest in Forth was to help me get some experience for a stack VM of my own Ive been designing. :) 04:34:16 * amca nods 04:35:25 not sure whether i actually need TUCK :) 04:35:40 i'm trying to design a simple stack VM for Scheme 04:35:42 The implementations of PICK and ROLL may take longer than the others which tend to be more optimised, I think. Like Inc(x)/x++ is an optimised form of (x + 1) 04:36:22 With pick you have to push a parmeter onto the stack too, so instead of having to do "0 pick" you can just do "dup" 04:36:41 But check with a more knowledgable Forth coder before you believe me :) 04:36:50 yes, but they are more general, i'm trying to minimise instruction count :) 04:36:58 * amca nods 04:37:33 also i hope to have a decoded instruction format in the end, so i can pack multiple instructions into one opcode :) 04:37:41 Have you seen the Starting Forth tutorial? 04:37:49 yes, i've read it :) 04:39:30 And the Stack machines book? 04:39:39 (by koopman) 04:40:14 Stack Computers, sorry, not stack machines 04:40:33 yes, i read some of that as well, mostly the general parts, and i skimmed the implementation parts :) 04:40:40 heh 04:40:44 apart from those and a few papers i didn't find much though :( 04:40:45 :) 04:41:01 do you have a base-pointer for local variables/parameters in your implementation? 04:41:17 No, I have two stacks. 04:41:24 Data stack, and return stack 04:41:53 me too.. but i still need a base pointer, so i can locate parameters :( 04:42:01 i probably need a better compiler :) 04:42:20 What compiler do you use? 04:42:27 Wait a sec! 04:42:27 my own :) 04:42:36 Scheme->myVM :) 04:42:41 Why do you need a base pointer if you have a DS and RS? 04:42:48 eugh 04:43:20 i have a primitive LOCAL-REF that pushes parameter n (BP+n) 04:43:43 my compiler isn't smart enough to automatically dup/move values on the stack to get them into position for calls 04:44:28 Did you code your compiler in Scheme? 04:44:39 yes 04:44:53 it's more or less self-hosting now 04:44:55 Why scheme of all langs? (No offense intended) 04:45:09 i think it's rather perfect :) close to that at least.. 04:45:32 (no offense intended either :) 04:45:45 heh 04:46:40 * amca doesnt like prefix, list based languages personally. Mor of an imperative guy. 04:46:44 Mor = More 04:46:46 so i could get rid of LOCAL-REF / LOCAL-SET! if i get a better compiler.. 04:47:16 hehe, so did i.. now i wouldn't change them for anything :) i dread the day when i have to go back to Java/C/.. 04:47:43 What about the expressiveness of Dartmouth BASIC? ;) 04:48:21 in a way forth is ideal too, but i prefer lisp's dynamicness :) 04:48:47 Well forth is kinda just as dynamic - pretty much everything is an int ;) 04:48:54 Do you mind if I ask your age? 04:48:55 and for some reason i strongly believe that a stack machine is ideal for implementing Scheme :) 04:48:59 25 04:49:07 this is my master's thesis 04:49:10 compiler+vm :) 04:49:30 Ah! 04:49:35 if i finish the self-hosting, i'm basically done (of course nowhere close to what i want it to be, but working..) 04:49:43 :) congrats. What course? 04:50:03 ordinary computer science :) 04:50:21 actually nobody i know at my uni does scheme or forth.. 04:50:29 so i still hope my professor likes what i do :) 04:50:56 hehe 04:51:04 You done any asm? 04:51:16 yes, lots of intel asm, but that was years ago.. 04:51:32 i started from "hand-code everything in asm for performance" :) 04:51:51 Ah. LISP is a *long* way from that 04:51:52 at some point i realised that approach was .. a bit flawed :) 04:52:00 hehe 04:52:34 the nice thing in lisp is, you can actually get pretty good performance, considering the abstractness of the language 04:52:38 No point in the computer being so performance tweeked that it means the coder isnt able to have good performance for the time spent :) 04:53:19 :) thus i'd like a very simple VM, that does what it does very fast.. 04:53:24 What is it about LISP langs that you like? 04:53:33 stack-risc :) 04:53:52 amca: closures, first-order functions, macros.. 04:53:53 stack-risc? 04:54:14 ah...that wasnt an answer to my lisp Q 04:54:37 Those terms you have mentioned I recognise, but dont know what they mean 04:54:53 most important are probably macros, in the long run.. 04:55:59 My Vm is designed to be an 8 bit VM. I originally started designing it as a 8 bit RISC, but didnt like the arbitaryness of deciding on the numbers of regisrters etc to use. 04:56:13 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-248-200.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 04:56:17 What are macros in LISP? Are they the same as C #defines? 04:56:20 Hi Ray 04:56:23 i have 32bits, 2 are used for tagging 04:56:27 amca: hehe, no, not at all 04:56:36 or rather, they are much maore 04:56:43 s/ao/o/ 04:56:48 :) 04:57:03 basically lisp macros are code that is executed at compile-time, not run-time 04:57:04 What are the 4 possible meanings of the tag? 04:57:09 hi /me wake up 04:57:20 they generate code (which is then compiled/run at run-time) 04:57:54 Raystm2: Still finding your brain? Is it near the false teeth? ;) 04:57:55 fixnum, char, stob (stored object, everything in memory) or (with an extended tag) one of special/header/opcode 04:58:23 special is stuff like true/false/empty-list and VM constants 04:58:52 header is the first word of a stob, to delimit them in memory, this could help a mark+sweep compiler 04:59:01 s/compiler/garbage collector/ 04:59:06 amca: no , it fell off the night stand and the cat dragged it under the bed. 04:59:17 opcode is just a tagged fixnum right now.. 04:59:18 Raystm2: hehe 04:59:35 I wonder what a mark+sweep compiler would be like... ;) 04:59:59 hehe ;) that'd be a paper for 1st april :) 05:00:01 fixnum, as in fixed point arithmatic, as opposed to integer? 05:00:06 :) 05:00:23 no, as in compared to bignum (fixnum is 30 bit, bignum is arbitrary) 05:00:27 (bignums are stobs..) 05:00:44 i don't have flonums yet 05:01:52 I see 05:02:11 flonums would be different from fixed point numbers though wouldnt they? 05:02:27 I assume the "flo" dstands for "floating" 05:02:34 s/ds/s 05:03:03 yes, i didn't think about any format for them yet.. flonum would be something like ieee 7.. (keep forgetting the exact number :( ) 05:03:30 yep 05:03:39 Are you familiar with fixed point? 05:03:48 Raystm2: What have you been up to of late? 05:03:57 yes, but afaik i don't need processor support, i can just use fixnums for that 05:06:01 yep 05:06:12 Just amking sure we were on the same page :) 05:06:28 So what is a macro in LISP? 05:06:35 Wait, I asked that already 05:06:39 Ill read back.... 05:07:34 So macros are used to precompile/inline segments of code for efficiency? 05:09:37 not primarily for efficiency.. you can do all kinds of neat code transformations 05:09:47 but you can use them for efficiency as well :) 05:10:44 do you know any lisp? 05:11:09 I have seen some and tried briefly to learn scheme and e-lisp 05:11:17 for example exceptions are often implemented as macros.. or CASE (which is like switch in C) 05:11:21 What would be an typical example of using macros for non-efficiency reasons? 05:11:34 okay... 05:11:56 hehe, you can define new syntax with macros (syntax like if/for/switch in C) 05:12:13 (all those advantages are against C/Java..., forth is different here anyway) 05:12:38 can you show me a trivial example of implementing an excaption or case statement with macros pls? 05:16:19 (case ((= x 1) "one") ((= x -1) "minus one") (else "not either")) 05:16:31 this tests x against 1, if true returns "one" 05:16:46 if false, tests against -1, if true returns "minus one" 05:16:51 if false, returns "not either" 05:17:11 this could be implemented as a series of nested IFs (which is what it would be transformed to in most implementations) 05:17:45 if you want to see some examples, look for r5rs.pdf (the revised^5 report on scheme), the last few pages have macros (DEFINE-SYNTAX ...) 05:19:13 ok 05:22:01 what language is your stack vm for? 05:22:38 The idesa is any 05:22:49 I wanna implement it first in Python, then in C 05:23:47 i need something faster than interpreted scheme too, i should probably look into a compiled scheme :) 05:24:02 heh 05:24:22 Also I want to implement it in z80 05:24:25 asm 05:24:53 hehe, maybe some day i'll have a JIT-compiler :) or better yet, burn it into an fpga 05:25:15 sorry, gotta go, been nice talking to you :) good luck, and see you around here :) 05:26:05 Same here. :) 05:26:08 Have fun! 05:26:30 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 05:57:52 --- quit: amca ("d34d") 06:00:58 --- join: Ray_work (n=vircuser@adsl-65-65-223-87.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:01:52 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:02:22 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:05:19 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool66-16.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:05:51 G'day 06:11:13 hi PoppaVic :) 06:11:32 * Ray_work getting the store cranked up. 06:14:31 Mornin', sorry - I was glaring at code ;-) 06:29:31 glare away. 06:29:42 I fixed it ;-) 06:30:13 I've a temp condition... Two parallel solutions, one is due to disappear in favor of the other - it got confusing ;-) 08:02:09 :0 08:02:28 * Ray_work got a little busy here , curently on the phone. 08:02:43 heh - I got the code converted. 08:03:01 ..Now, making sure quotes are either removed or left in place - as required. 08:27:15 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 08:57:24 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 08:57:29 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 09:08:51 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 09:10:55 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-131.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:24:53 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 09:24:58 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 09:25:54 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 09:26:32 --- quit: lop (Client Quit) 10:11:24 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-2-59.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 10:16:13 --- quit: sproingie (Remote closed the connection) 10:43:01 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 10:46:32 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 11:18:39 --- join: swalters (n=swalters@6532183hfc82.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 11:26:14 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 11:57:16 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-33-97.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 12:04:46 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:09:39 --- quit: slava () 12:10:56 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-52-98.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 12:11:23 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:22:23 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:26:00 --- join: snoopy_17 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-191-016.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:26:28 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 12:26:32 --- nick: snoopy_17 -> Snoopy42 12:48:15 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-251-191.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 12:56:35 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:14:29 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:15:01 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-251-191.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 13:41:47 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-44-208.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 13:50:31 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:50:55 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-93-113-132.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:00:00 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:00:01 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:02:36 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@ppp-70-248-33-74.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:10:48 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-43-52.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:16:42 --- join: saon (i=1000@unaffiliated/saon) joined #forth 14:27:49 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:57:37 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-58-250.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 15:01:12 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:30:29 --- quit: swalters (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:56:32 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 16:00:36 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Quebec-HSE-ppp3617924.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 16:08:45 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-56-96.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:16:46 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:17:16 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@ppp-70-248-32-191.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:17:20 --- join: Raystm2- (n=Raystm2@ppp-70-248-32-191.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:19:00 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Client Quit) 16:19:06 --- quit: Raystm2- (Client Quit) 16:19:54 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@ppp-70-248-32-191.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:22:31 --- quit: Raystm2 (Nick collision from services.) 16:23:14 --- nick: Raystm2_ -> Raystm2 16:25:54 I have a question. 16:26:39 If i decide to become a forth programmer, do i have to get a divorce, move back in with my parents, sell the car and get a bike? 16:27:04 Cuz I was gonna do that anyway... 16:27:32 Should I give up any plans to retire at a reasonable age. 16:27:33 ? 17:17:46 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-69-154-189-66.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:25:33 <_james> yes, yes, yes, yes and yes 17:26:35 Hi _james Hi Amanita_Virosa 17:26:53 hey 17:28:23 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Yipes.") 18:01:51 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 18:16:21 --- join: swalters (n=swalters@6532183hfc82.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 18:16:56 --- join: FiLa (i=LNIX@12-208-98-237.client.insightBB.com) joined #forth 18:23:33 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 18:36:08 --- quit: swalters (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:47:17 Hey all. 18:58:14 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-145.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 18:59:33 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 19:00:12 Gday 19:21:54 --- join: LOOP-HOG (n=chatzill@sub22-119.member.dsl-only.net) joined #forth 19:23:02 Hi amca. 19:23:11 Gday Quartus 19:23:20 How is today treating you? 19:24:33 Not too badly, thanks. You? 19:25:20 --- join: zoly (i=tor@c212-151-198-78.swipnet.se) joined #forth 19:25:27 'morning 19:25:59 Hi zoly. 19:26:08 Pretty good, except for the lack of sleep 19:26:11 Hi zoly 19:26:16 What have you been up to today? 19:26:29 hi all 19:27:05 talking a lot 19:28:21 then working on PM backlog 19:29:08 PM backlog? 19:29:11 about "trash 3, reply 1" pattern 19:29:17 Quartus: What about you? What have you been up to today? 19:29:20 private message 19:29:46 One cn have a PM backlog? 19:29:58 jabber, web 19:30:47 Ah 19:30:51 haven't been on IRC for days, if not weeks 19:31:11 i was pretty sure on IRC pms when someone isnt online disappear into the bit bucket 19:31:26 ehm, not right. was on one particular irc server recently 19:32:06 there is a messenging facility, but i never used it. and nobody used it on me 19:32:10 oh? 19:32:24 probably through nickserv 19:32:38 I have heard of bots that can send offline memos... 19:32:48 Havent heard to them referred as PMs though 19:32:51 * amca shrugs 19:33:21 no, not nickserv 19:35:47 lol 19:35:54 what? :) 19:35:57 A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. 19:36:03 Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone 19:36:09 "Hear that?" you say. "That's dynamite, baby." 19:36:21 lol. Really? :P 19:39:57 Hi amca... been running the business. 19:40:11 Same as last time? 19:40:25 Always something new. :) 19:40:40 hehe 19:40:44 What was new today? 19:41:10 zoly: what have you been doing coding wise of late, may I ask? 19:41:34 Managed to shake some past-owed money from a distributor-- though the chickens aren't quite hatched, it looks good. 19:42:23 Cool :) 19:42:37 What sort of distributors do you have? Retail stores? 19:43:36 No, my distributors are all on-line. 19:44:27 Ah, I see 19:44:41 amca, a bit neuronal network stuff 19:45:08 aoly: sweet. In Forth or another lang? 19:45:13 Forth, right 19:47:05 Quartus: Can I ask what online distributors you have? 19:56:12 am i late? 19:56:19 i'm always late :) 19:56:45 Raystm2: You are late! What I want to know is, what for? :) 19:57:04 I'm late for ....... my own funeral, as usual. 19:57:18 Never late for dinner. 19:57:33 If they serve food at my funeral, I'll be on time. 19:57:53 When is that again? 19:57:53 hehe 19:57:58 amca, currently I sell through RegSoft. 19:58:00 "Braaaains" 19:58:07 Ah 19:59:08 Quartus, is that a distribution outlet? 19:59:21 * Raystm2 should just google it.... 20:00:02 I like the stupid questions and have a whole "to do" about it at dot info. 20:00:13 Some one read the site and it was in his first e-mail to me. 20:00:39 I find that if you tell somebody to ask you stupid questions, you end up with some pretty tough questions. 20:00:46 Raystm2: What site R U talking about? 20:01:37 Oh the unannounced, "haven't been paying attention to it lately", need to come up with a killer paper for it, website called. WWW.colorforth.info 20:03:03 I see 20:03:55 I'm suffering from "no audience" syndrom. I really don't know what to do next, there's so much to do. 20:04:21 Black ants eaten raw have a semi sweet flavor. Sorta like crunchy raw sugar with legs. 20:04:50 What is "no audience" syndrome? 20:04:56 Chocolate, dip 'em in chocolate. You can eat anything diped in chocolate. 20:05:24 zoly: How do you avoid that aweful acid taste from their stinger? 20:05:53 formic acid? flavoring. 20:05:56 amca: I've been a performer my entire life. If I don't atleast see the hint of attention in that direction, I'm liable to let it rot, unfinished and unfullfilled. 20:06:31 I don't want that to happen. 20:06:42 When I started it, there was much action in the community. 20:06:47 It has waned. 20:06:58 I know that I should take advantage of the lul... 20:07:12 but I have other interests as well and they are more active. 20:07:50 * amca doesnt like formic acid 20:07:56 I don't wanna let colorforth die, but i don't wanna be the only one doing it as well. 20:08:11 * amca nods 20:08:15 formic acid. is that on blotter now? 20:08:18 That's understandable 20:08:21 Bees and wasps are OK eaten after a good boiling. The poison is basically a protein which disassembles at boiling temperatures. The stinger softens. 20:08:36 Raystm2: So you arent coding it in collaboration with someone else? 20:08:53 zoly: So if I cook a blck ant it will taste ok? 20:09:09 not sure about the formic acid 20:09:41 zoly: How did you eat thje black ant? 20:09:53 Not really, and haven't been, save for a little work that i did with Mark Slicker and TIm Nietz when I took thier work and formed the basis for an editor for colorforth completely written in colorforth, and that was near a year ago. 20:09:55 could be the have dispensed of acid already when caught 20:09:57 they 20:10:33 Raystm2: Ah. No wonder you are finding it hard to keep going 20:10:40 zoly: Where did you get the black ant? 20:11:13 --- join: ramkrsna (n=ramkrsna@61.2.66.102) joined #forth 20:11:36 Location is very important and speaks the very essence of the overtones enjoyed. 20:12:32 Raystm2: Is it just me, or was that a non sequiter? 20:13:33 amca it was aimed at "Where did you get the black ant" -- I actually thought that was funny :) 20:13:42 amca, looking for ways to reduce costs of living. try maggots. Road kills are often infested with them. Gather a handful or two, drop your prize into an old sock, and rinse in cold clear water a couple of times. Then boil. After about five minutes, toss in a bullion cube. When the cube has finished dissolving, settle back to a fine hot stew of what looks like brown rice. It is really a fine meal. 20:14:05 you have to kiss your finger and thumb as you say essence to get the Whole picture. 20:14:52 zoly: What about leaving out meat? Would that attract maggots to eat ok? 20:15:10 Raystm2: Is it Surreal Hour with Ray today or something? :) 20:15:10 the author is quite attired of the taste of some of those critters 20:15:17 he likes moths a lot 20:15:23 and meal worms 20:15:46 says, moth taste like almonds 20:15:48 zoly: Is this online? 20:15:52 yes 20:16:01 http://www.survival.com/bug.htm 20:16:12 It's always Surreal Hour. No one gets out of this one alive. 20:16:44 hehe 20:16:50 * Raystm2 likes the fact that i don't have to be a survivalist. 20:16:52 zoly: thanks 20:16:54 this meal worm thing sounds good. fried, for first attempt 20:18:25 I'm not put off by the topic but i'll always take a SUBWAY sub over Flied Lice any day. I do love oreintal food. I ment that litterally. 20:18:51 at least you know what you eat with those, in contrast to eating a hamburger 20:19:20 No, it's in the hamberger too, it's just not an advertised feature. 20:19:37 More like a hidden benifit. 20:19:43 zoly: Well actually, you dont know what chemicals in the enviroment (especially urban) that the insect has eaten 20:19:47 Everybody has there requirement of Earwig manure. 20:19:54 zoly: Have you eaten any insects yourself? 20:19:56 true 20:20:09 cockroaches are problematic. crickets probably too 20:20:22 amca, not on purpose 20:20:25 More Geckos! 20:20:35 worst thing i had was raw sea urchin 20:20:45 Get a small family of geckos and you wont have a problem. 20:21:00 Never tried that, what was it like? 20:21:02 We have geckos here :) 20:21:34 first one was bad. not the taste, but the feel of it 20:21:55 2nd one was much easier 20:22:02 Texture is important. 20:22:24 and the fact that the innards move when you add lemon juice 20:22:30 Are they poisonous as well? 20:22:46 "The formic acid pretty much disappears when they are boiled." 20:22:52 can't imagine. is a delicacy in some places 20:23:03 i survived 20:23:13 Aquired taste, much like everything else. 20:24:48 I think I will buy some mealbugs today :) 20:25:01 going for the fry? 20:25:30 yep 20:25:39 Im going into thew mall today, and there is a pet store there, so... :) 20:25:41 "I think you'll find that they are quite tasty" doesn't sound that bad 20:26:00 * amca nods 20:26:11 keep a few 20:26:16 for step 2 20:26:18 and also save having to buy expensive meat - there are heaps of ants arounbd here 20:26:21 they multiply 20:26:26 eating raw? 20:26:41 what do you feed mealbugs? 20:26:53 fish 20:27:14 as lure, for example 20:27:16 fish? 20:27:53 I mean what so you feed the mealbugs for the mealbugs to consume? :P 20:27:53 Sure, feed them something you should of ate yourself and you get both meals. 20:28:17 and you have another option, in case you catch nothing 20:28:20 Like lettuce? Or alfalfa sprouts? 20:28:25 hehe 20:28:41 google for it 20:29:00 Im gonna wikip it 20:29:21 All of life is still the active part of the all comsuming fire. 20:29:21 Well Im off so that I can start getting ready to go out and buy insect food :) 20:29:46 "You may find that they are SO good you'll be offering them to friends as a snack at parties" 20:29:58 LOL 20:30:09 hehe 20:30:32 Id like to eat bugs, just so when IU eat the,m live, ppl freak out :D 20:31:14 Yep, I don't eat one thing with bragging about. I need a lifestyle change. 20:31:19 Farewell! 20:31:22 --- quit: amca ("d34d") 20:32:18 can't wait to go to the pet shop? 20:32:56 hehe 20:34:33 Quartus, I broke Starting Forth in half. :( 20:35:01 * Raystm2 has to put it back together real nice like to, before I start loosing pages. 20:48:21 Yikes! That's hard reading. 20:48:27 You'll want some cloth tape. 20:54:21 Very good. I'll get some. 20:55:33 They sell, specifically, 'bookbinding tape' -- it's a clear-ish cloth tape. 20:55:54 Had I thought of it I would have reinforced the binding; I didn't notice it was that far gone. 20:57:14 Not your fault. I was lazy and when I got to the middle of the book I should have noticed that the center had slightly rotated. Enough to start a tare I could have caught, but I just wouldn't stop reading. 20:57:32 Ah well. Fixable. 20:57:40 yes. 20:58:16 * Raystm2 puts Books'N'Babbles" on the mental list. 20:59:18 --- join: ramkrsna_ (n=ramkrsna@61.2.69.204) joined #forth 21:01:55 Finding it interesting? 21:07:30 Definately. I still learn something from it every time I read it. 21:08:56 I've read the first chapter of all the books save the ARTs but i'm temperiing that with a read through of Starting and Thinking, taken together. 21:13:53 Good mix. 21:15:47 --- quit: ramkrsna (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21:34:32 --- quit: ramkrsna_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21:57:04 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 22:01:25 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 22:19:57 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 23:07:47 --- join: swalters (n=swalters@6532183hfc82.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 23:16:33 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-252-183.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 23:26:58 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-67.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 23:27:40 Hello 23:28:56 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:28:58 Mealbugs/worms taste like popcorn kernels 23:29:07 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:31:05 fried? 23:31:21 popcorn is nice. 23:32:24 Fried 23:32:32 I just ate a live one. 23:32:53 how are those? 23:33:00 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-35-214.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 23:33:05 All the insides squished out between my teeth and left the shell, so I swallowed the insides and spat out the shell 23:33:20 The shell is more edible when cooked 23:33:23 like some kind of fruit 23:33:37 that wriggles in your mouth, yes 23:33:55 your gag reflex was easy to suppress? 23:34:06 after the fried one? 23:34:10 I dont have much of a gag reflex. 23:34:29 But if I think about it too much, the idea that I ate an insect is slightly nauseous. 23:34:53 I should get over that with practice though 23:35:04 I couldnt find any stuff about mealbugs on the net, but I found out at the store they are called mealworms 23:35:05 why should it be worse than the idea of having eaten part of a cow? 23:35:14 Now I am finding info online about it 23:35:41 or a bird 23:35:49 Well you dont normally eat a cow with the skin still on, but you are right. It is a cultural thing. We are so divorced from the origins of our food in the West 23:36:49 if you're used to eating critters, never ate cow, you might want to puke when biting into a steal 23:36:51 steak 23:36:55 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 23:37:28 I can understand that 23:37:45 i think overcoming those reflexes may help to make a person more free 23:37:45 So are you planning to eat insects 23:37:46 ? 23:37:58 I agree. I like to be a rational person. 23:38:12 not by being able to eat different foodstuff, but by being less subjected to cultural inhibitions 23:38:50 i was studying those kind of pages to broaden my nutricial spectrum 23:39:11 So what looks good for you? 23:39:13 doesn't have to become staple food 23:39:25 i thought the ants didn't sound too bad 23:39:38 mealworms are almost flavourless. They have more of a popcorn-kernel-like aftertaste 23:39:40 and, as they are small, easy to process 23:39:54 Im planning to use a honey trap for some ants tomorrow 23:40:06 And they breed easily enough by themselves :) 23:40:16 becoming ant farmer 23:40:57 hehe. Id need a queen ant for that. There is a big ant patch near my place, so I can just go there 23:40:58 i found somewhere a recipe for candied cricket 23:41:45 http://www.ent.iastate.edu/misc/insectsasfood/ccc.html 23:42:05 there is also mealworm fried rice 23:42:17 hehe 23:42:19 and corn borer cornbread muffins 23:42:32 chocolate covered grasshoppers 23:42:35 Im planning to cool up some mealworms and veges tonight 23:42:51 sounds good 23:42:58 Is there a good portal on the web for insects as foods websites? 23:43:04 banana worm bread 23:43:09 no 23:43:18 at least, i haven't found a portal 23:43:26 some pages, spread all over the place 23:43:41 ah 23:43:56 How do you get candied grasshoppers? 23:44:02 looks like insects are not the most popular cooking ingredient 23:44:21 lol 23:45:31 http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/Entomology/ythfacts/bugfood/bugfood2.htm 23:49:06 Funny things is arthropods such as shrimp are acceptable to eat, and they are basically just large insects 23:49:53 xactly. had some just 10 hours ago 23:50:02 juicy ones 23:50:38 i lost the candied crickets 23:50:50 Oooh! Termits are full of iron! And I tend to be anemic 23:51:03 http://www.ent.iastate.edu/misc/insectsasfood/ccc.html 23:51:15 I want to know how one candies food 23:51:19 have a look at topinambur for iron 23:51:31 (tubers) 23:52:00 weed-like growth 23:52:09 very nice, actually 23:52:38 you are in a place where it freezes during the winter? 23:54:50 No 23:54:56 Im in brisbane - subtropical 23:55:21 forget topinambur. must freeze before harvesting 23:56:30 ah 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.11.14