00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.10.24
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06:43:01 <PoppaVic> G'day
06:44:03 <humulus> hi
06:44:43 <PoppaVic> How goes it?
06:45:40 <humulus> do you mean something like "how's life?
06:45:49 <PoppaVic> yah
06:46:40 <humulus> i am fine
06:46:51 <humulus> what do you use forth fo?
06:46:52 <humulus> for
06:48:07 <PoppaVic> Me? Tinkering... Mostly, I'm tinkering something for C. Since the advent of Gcc, I've rarely spent time seriously coding Forth
06:50:20 <PoppaVic> For one thing.. It can be handy just as an extensible interpreter
06:51:21 <PoppaVic> Prob is, unfortunately, there are as many Forths as there are Assemblers - More in fact.
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06:58:30 <Ray_work> morning men!
06:58:47 <Robert> Morning, Ray
06:59:19 <Ray_work> Your mission, should you accept it.... will self destruct in 5 seconds.
06:59:31 <Ray_work> 4
06:59:32 <Ray_work> 3
06:59:33 <Ray_work> 2
06:59:34 <Ray_work> 1
06:59:37 <Ray_work> puff
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07:01:43 <Ray_work> wb :)
07:01:57 <PoppaVic> Friggin' Amerischreck
07:02:04 <PoppaVic> t'anks
07:02:06 <Ray_work> whats that
07:02:39 <PoppaVic> oh, the local telco-shitpile.. Either they are screwing around again, or my ISP is (as usual) flaking-out
07:05:38 <PoppaVic> So, what's on the agenda, Ray?
07:10:29 * Ray_work is still trying to level the cash jounal for the last week.
07:10:45 <Ray_work> i can't seem to find 1400+USD
07:11:17 <PoppaVic> ouchies
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07:31:50 <Robert> Hi, snowrichard.
07:32:07 <snowrichard> good morning
07:43:12 <Quartus> Hey all.
07:43:20 <PoppaVic> lo, Q
07:56:10 <PoppaVic> Anyone have an idea of the typical ratio of RAM/ROM/E[2]PROM ?
07:57:55 <Robert> Ratio...in what?
07:58:35 <PoppaVic> Oh, hell.. I dunno' - I'm trying to think of how they are typical used for PC's and also embedded-devices
07:59:41 <PoppaVic> Seems like E2prom would be a place to add new constants, or Eprom as a 2nd choice. RAM would be exclusive to variables/buffers/etc
08:00:00 <Robert> Ah...
08:00:33 <Robert> One chip I've been playing with lately, the pic18f458, has 1536 bytes of RAM, 256 bytes of EEPROM, and 32kB of code memory (flash).
08:00:46 <PoppaVic> ahh
08:01:07 <PoppaVic> now, "flash" is what?
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08:02:48 <Robert> PoppaVic: http://www.netrino.com/Publications/Glossary/MemoryTypes.html
08:03:00 <PoppaVic> loading
08:03:39 <PoppaVic> ahhh
08:03:52 <PoppaVic> So, we can say "flash" to encompass E2PROM?
08:04:43 <PoppaVic> Seems like my guesses are not too far off then.
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08:24:55 <PoppaVic> "vellly interestink"
08:29:55 <PoppaVic> Well, between you and Baughn, I think I puzzled THAT out... FICL has got some interesting features, but I still need some good mmap() examples.
08:35:30 <PoppaVic> The depressing part is that Ficl uses the ancient Monolithic "dictionary" and 2 stacks. On the upside, they took my idea of a universal stack and ops a ways.
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11:47:41 <Quartus> Hey all.
11:47:55 <Robert> Evening, Quartus.
11:48:31 <Quartus> What's up?
11:50:10 <Robert> Implementing a viterbi encoder/decoder.
11:50:23 <Quartus> viterbi?
11:50:33 <Robert> Error-correcting code.
11:50:49 <Quartus> I was about to say that.  What are you implementing it in?
11:50:55 <Robert> C.
11:52:56 <Quartus> That sounds rather more difficult, but ok. :)
11:53:34 <tathi> More difficult than...in Forth?
11:53:47 <tathi> or...?
11:54:30 <Quartus> When playing with a new algorithm (new to me, anyway), I prefer Forth.
11:55:33 <tathi> Just making sure that's what you were saying.
11:56:21 <Quartus> How are you today, tathi?
11:56:41 <tathi> Pretty good.
11:56:47 <Robert> The encoding is pretty simple, really.
11:57:08 <Robert> As for the decoder, we'll see.
12:00:08 <Quartus> I would be interested to see the results of your work, Robert.
12:00:49 <Robert> Sure, I'll tell you when/if I get done. :)
12:01:00 <Quartus> Great!
12:01:22 <Robert> I'll probably implement it on some smaller chip later. At least the encoder. And then Forth may be an option (I've heard good things about picforth).
12:03:05 <Quartus> Does Viterbi encoding increase the size of a data stream by much?
12:04:46 <Robert> As much as you want it to. It's a tradeoff between robustness and size. In practice I think that x2, x3 and x6 the original stream is common.
12:04:57 <Quartus> Substantial
12:05:00 <Robert> Yeah.
12:05:40 <Robert> But compared to simply sending the data slower to get more energy per symbol, it's worth it.
12:06:14 <Robert> I'm going to experiment a bit with various codes, and see which survives best in the hostile environment of shortwave radio.
12:07:16 <Quartus> A one-way channel, I assume?
12:07:43 <Robert> Yeah.
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13:07:24 <Ray_work>  All cover ears, i'm about to scream.
13:08:17 <Quartus> Missing money?
13:08:29 <Ray_work> no i found the missing money :)
13:08:43 <Robert> Oh? Congratulations.
13:09:20 <Ray_work> This is a test. The following will be a test of the Ace broad CASTERS system. This is only a test.
13:09:28 <Ray_work> AHAHHAHHHHHHHAHAHAHHHH cough cough
13:10:52 <Ray_work> The previous was a test of the Ace (broad) CASTERS system. If this were an actual emergency, you would be instructed to bend over and kiss your ......
14:12:57 <Ray_work> anyway...
14:13:24 <Ray_work> or for you in Michigan and New York, anyways...
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15:36:17 <Robert> Hey, I440r 
15:36:29 <I440r> hi
15:52:34 <Quartus> What's I440r spell out in Haxor, anyway?
15:54:56 <Robert> It's a guitar model number. ;)
16:04:09 <Quartus> That's extremely not obvious.
16:04:42 <Robert> Yeah.
16:04:56 <Robert> I wouldn't have been able to tell, but I read it on his home page. 
16:05:08 <Quartus> It's also unclear in most fonts whether that's an I or a l.
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16:24:48 <tiff> I failed the 1440r test, as well. 
16:24:59 <tiff> slash sexchange
16:25:04 --- nick: tiff -> Raystm2
16:26:01 <Robert> 1440 would sort of make sense. The floppy guy. :)
16:29:32 <Raystm2> hahaha
16:29:48 * JasonWoof complains about fonts where you can't tell the difference between various characters
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16:30:11 <JasonWoof> they are unsuitable for programming and chatting about programming
16:30:28 <Raystm2> 1l -- thats one ell, how does it look.
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16:30:39 <Robert> Sort of like 1|.
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16:30:49 <Raystm2> what about 1l
16:30:52 <Raystm2> oops 
16:31:12 <Raystm2> l1| one ell pipe
16:31:18 <JasonWoof> heh
16:31:23 <JasonWoof> no, that's ell one pipe
16:31:27 <Raystm2> oops ell one pipe 
16:31:28 <Raystm2> ya
16:31:50 <JasonWoof> aughta be able to tell these apart easily too: )}]>
16:31:53 <Raystm2> Il1| eye ell one pipe
16:32:40 <Raystm2> I'm haveing trouble seeing the difference between brace and bracked there.
16:32:50 <Raystm2> bracket even
16:32:57 <JasonWoof> mist freaks out when I try to set a dictionary field that afaik it's not using
16:33:14 <JasonWoof> which? the last two?
16:33:15 <Raystm2> mist, thats your work?
16:33:19 <JasonWoof> yeah
16:33:20 <Raystm2> ya
16:33:46 <JasonWoof> new programming environment inspired by forth and colorforth and aha and kestrel
16:33:54 <JasonWoof> runs on the fovium vm
16:33:57 <Raystm2> ooh neat
16:34:07 <JasonWoof> I've written a cross-compiler in herkforth
16:34:08 <Raystm2> fovium is your work with tathi?
16:34:24 <JasonWoof> yeah
16:34:34 <JasonWoof> tathi and I designed it together, he implemented it and I debugged it
16:34:59 <JasonWoof> and neither of us documented it =)
16:35:41 <Raystm2> so, you wrote a crosscompiler, that runs in a language/os of your own design, to compile another language you wrote, to run on a vm you wrote. 
16:35:48 <Raystm2> your my new forth hero :)
16:36:29 <Raystm2> You might be employee of the month.
16:37:06 <Raystm2> crc WAS my forth hero, but he's taking a break.
16:37:52 <Raystm2> Although, Quartus seems to be the only forth hero I know making any real money with it....
16:40:24 <Quartus> If you can think of any marketing ideas for me, please let me know.
16:40:43 <Raystm2> Reasonable ones?
16:40:49 <Quartus> Preferably.
16:41:17 <Raystm2> okay, so I won't suggest a free Palm with every order paid in full in the next 10 minutes.
16:45:29 <Quartus> Yeah, something that increases profits rather than blowing them out the window.
16:47:22 <JasonWoof> hehe
16:47:29 <JasonWoof> crc is taking a break?
16:47:44 <JasonWoof> I440r is making money with forth, but not from his forth
16:48:01 <JasonWoof> he's just getting paid to programm in some ANS-like forth
16:48:19 <I440r> yea im one of the rare lucky forth coders who gets to code forth at work heh
16:51:16 <Raystm2> oh really, I didn't know that.
16:51:19 <crc> JasonWoof: I'm cutting back the amount of time I spend coding to help me get my carpal tunnel back under control 
16:51:25 <I440r> its a contract jpb
16:54:21 <Raystm2> http://forthworks.com/blog/?p=186
16:55:02 <Raystm2> Mark, what are you coding?
16:56:15 <I440r> satellite tracking systems
16:56:32 <Raystm2> ooh cool, one of the first uses of forth ever, as well.
16:59:11 <I440r> :)
17:01:18 <Quartus> Well, sort of.
17:01:22 <Raystm2> There ya go Quartus, Satelite Tracking Software with every purchase.
17:02:13 <Quartus> You're not full of good idea tonight, Raystm2. :)
17:03:30 <Raystm2> I'm full of something...
17:03:50 <Raystm2> Ya, what is it with the ideas today? hmmm. 
17:04:26 <Raystm2> I'm distracted, but I can't find the distraction, IYKWIM
17:15:36 <Raystm2> Quartus, you need something of value to Quartus coders, but cheap for you to produce or supply. 
17:15:48 <Raystm2> that sounds like software to me.
17:16:29 <Robert> Or maybe a small book? Not that I know much about printing costs.
17:16:40 <Raystm2> Or a "Get it before the Christmas Rush" sale.
17:17:31 <Raystm2> actually, if you have a laser printer, and can afford to have a nice glossy cover made, you can produce a book that is a few pages folded in half....
17:18:28 <Raystm2> lanscaped in two columns....
17:19:23 <Raystm2> A glossary book with pages to add your own words, might be nice.
17:20:25 <Raystm2> What about a partnership with other Palm providers?
17:22:05 <Raystm2> Buy the Quartus Forth at x price and get a discount on these tiltles , kinda thing.
17:22:33 <Raystm2> Little cross polination never hurt nuthin.
17:27:26 <Raystm2> OOh what about an artical in one of our fine computing or science zines, onlike or otherwise.
17:27:42 <Raystm2> onlike is online btw yikes
17:29:56 <Raystm2> Articles in zines is the best form of advertising. 
17:30:19 <Raystm2> You hit your target market, with out paying for adspace.
17:30:49 <Raystm2> I mean, you have plenty to write about.
17:30:55 <Robert> Hmm... would help if you knew someone working with that, I guess.
17:31:05 <Robert> (I mean with publishing)
17:31:08 <Raystm2> like in the business.
17:31:10 <Raystm2> ya
17:31:44 <Raystm2> well, those publishers have to put out a zine every period, so, they are always looking for relevent, well written, topical pieces.
17:32:08 <Raystm2> Content is at a premium any more. Content is king.
17:46:22 <Raystm2> "Quartus Forth, Now with more Sex."
17:47:00 <JasonWoof> crc: sorry to hear that!
17:47:11 <Raystm2> he went to bed.
17:47:17 <JasonWoof> crc: you need to get dasher hooked up to an eye tracker
17:47:19 <Raystm2> ya, I was too.
17:47:28 <Raystm2> hehe
17:47:34 <Raystm2> that's a cool idea.
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18:02:39 <Quartus> Ray, good thoughts. Thanks.
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