00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.10.11 00:05:47 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 00:50:44 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-55-17.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 00:50:44 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:57:33 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:58:21 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-55-17.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 01:09:49 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-218.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 01:10:02 --- quit: amca (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:37:16 --- quit: aum () 04:12:22 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 05:00:57 --- join: Narrenschiff (n=Narrensc@unsidhe.plus.com) joined #forth 05:23:24 --- quit: aum () 05:44:43 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 05:44:54 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool46-122.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:45:11 Howdy 05:51:51 Hi. 06:06:07 hello, everybody. 06:06:23 Hi Ray 06:06:28 howdy 06:06:55 What's shaking? 06:07:12 pluggin' away on the opcodes-set, you? 06:07:35 Getting notebook organized and prioritizing calls. 06:08:05 Talking to sweet wife in other chat. :) 06:08:12 ahh 06:11:01 Scheduals have us sometimes passing like two ships in the bed . :) 06:11:12 oops in the night. 06:45:39 Boyy.. I do _not_ like literals embedded in the code 06:47:22 There is something intristically hairy about it, and I'm not sure if having a space for "data" is any solution. 06:49:28 --- join: aardvarx (n=folajimi@shell2.sea5.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 06:52:01 --- quit: aardvarx (Client Quit) 06:57:00 ominous dark clouds north of here. 06:57:12 yeah, it looks like shit outside 07:02:34 If I can't get my shit together with these opcodes, I may just need a break on the reloader for a day *sigh* 07:07:34 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-2-59.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:47:23 foo. no one awake, eh? 07:48:24 I'm awake 07:48:29 * Robert is, too. 07:48:32 Just returned. 07:48:39 Just no action, and I'm beating this stupid opcode-shit 07:53:12 * Ray_work not only awake but pumpin casters into the system. 08:10:28 --- quit: virsys ("bah") 08:11:32 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-180-181.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 08:17:54 How do you "pump" a "caster", which is a 'wheel' on a pivot-point. 08:49:15 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:50:45 Hi, snowrichard 08:51:43 hello 08:53:33 my brother send me a joke site about lisp 08:53:44 Oh? 08:54:01 * Robert figures there are a lot of lisp jokes around 08:54:13 the punch line was someone stole 300 pages of source code and then got into a fight because it was all closing parens 08:54:39 Heh. 09:00:01 I upgraded my system to mandriva 2006 rc2 (the official trees will be available soon) 09:00:19 lost my simh vax install. wasn't doing anything with it yet anyway 09:01:25 Don't worry, Be Happy ... this is a cute song 09:02:00 Ah 09:02:07 * Robert is still running Debian. 09:02:26 I'm thinking about joining the computer society at my school, they have a bunch of VAX sytems. 09:02:29 And a PDP-11. 09:02:35 my last try with debian didn't install correctly, wasn't sure about how to fix it 09:02:45 some packages had errors on install 09:03:08 I'm far too old to look back at that crap 09:04:25 the college my mom taught at had a pdp 11. 09:05:59 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 09:09:38 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 09:20:42 --- join: aardvarx (n=folajimi@shell2.sea5.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 09:22:55 Quartus, ping 09:23:27 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 09:24:59 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool65-133.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:34:00 --- quit: virsys (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:34:23 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-180-181.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 09:43:59 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:45:23 Hi. 09:46:39 Howdy. 09:54:00 --- join: Alan323 (n=alang@host-69-95-103-162.mil.choiceone.net) joined #forth 09:55:15 --- quit: Alan323 (Client Quit) 10:15:27 --- quit: aardvarx ("leaving") 10:22:59 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 10:29:37 --- quit: PoppaVic ("calls it a knight") 10:43:43 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 11:37:33 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 11:37:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 11:41:58 Hi 11:44:48 --- join: Narren (n=Narrensc@unsidhe.plus.com) joined #forth 11:52:47 --- quit: Narrenschiff (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:56:44 hi 12:03:26 --- join: Narri (n=Narrensc@unsidhe.plus.com) joined #forth 12:04:53 Hi, Narr. 12:12:19 --- quit: Narren (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:46:48 --- quit: madwork ("?OUT OF DATA ERROR") 12:47:47 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 13:35:32 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-24.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 13:37:56 --- nick: amca -> amca|shower 14:29:37 --- part: amca|shower left #forth 14:36:18 good evening 14:36:24 --- nick: crcv -> crc 14:36:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 14:38:04 hello 14:44:07 Evening. 16:11:32 --- nick: Narri -> narrenschiff 16:28:14 --- join: Narren (n=Narrensc@84.92.174.6) joined #forth 16:32:25 --- quit: Narren (Client Quit) 16:33:07 --- quit: narrenschiff (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:39:56 --- join: snoopy_17 (i=snoopy_1@84.58.154.247) joined #forth 16:41:08 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 16:41:52 --- nick: snoopy_17 -> Snoopy42 16:59:42 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 17:11:35 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:41:15 Hey, all . 17:41:21 Hi, Quartus. 17:41:40 What's up? 17:42:16 Trying to design a smalltalkish environment. 17:42:39 How's that going? 17:42:40 Now I'm thinking/reading about the scope of block variables. 17:42:44 Not too bad. 17:43:52 I don't know enough about Smalltalk to follow too closely, probably. 17:44:18 Though I understand the nature of scoping well enough -- just not specifically in a Smalltalk context. 17:50:13 Is there anything particularly interesting about the way Smalltalk handles it? 17:51:08 I don't know, really. 17:51:32 I just need some way to access local variables of the function the block is created in. 17:51:53 The Forth way to handle local variables is to index them from the return stack. 17:52:18 This will not be very Forthish, I'm afraid. 17:52:28 The technique may still be applicable. 17:52:47 smalltalk blocks should already have access to their defining scope 17:52:52 they're lexical closures 17:53:07 I'm not referring to the generic use of the return stack via r> and >r, but to a locals frame as established by the Standard LOCALS wordset, for instance. 17:53:09 Yeah... but how to implement that? 17:54:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical_closure -- I should have checked here earlier :) 17:55:08 lexical closures may have subtly odd wrinkles depending on how you implement them 17:55:21 i'd see how squeak behaves and copy its behavior 17:56:02 it'll differ depending on whether you copy the bindings lazily or eagerly 17:56:32 Hmm.. OK. 17:56:44 at some point though, each block will need its own copy of any variable it uses, so you'll have to allocate either way 17:56:57 whether it falls through until set or not is the question, 18:00:21 | foo | foo := 1. myblock := [ foo ]. foo := 2. myblock value. 18:00:25 does that return 1 or 2? 18:00:53 Er...no idea. 18:01:10 with dynamic scope, definitely 2. with static, probably 1 18:01:54 I'd prefer dynamic scope, then.. 18:02:12 Need to find a good way to implement it. 18:04:34 in fact, it should be 1 18:04:47 no, you never want dynamic scope by default 18:04:52 Why not? 18:05:01 you definitely won't have smalltalk if you do dynamic scope 18:05:08 Hrm... 18:05:23 How could I write to foo from within a block? 18:05:39 Like.. bar isTrue: [ foo := 1. moo := 2. ] 18:05:51 (where foo and moo are locals in the calling method) 18:07:15 the block gets its own copy 18:09:46 But will the local variables of the parent method be updated? 18:19:10 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:19:44 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:22:37 x := 1. myblock = [x x ]. x := 2. Transcript show: myblock value; cr. 18:22:50 this displays, get ready for it, nil 18:23:03 er, stray x crept in there i think 18:23:13 Hrm. 18:23:23 same without it 18:23:27 But how would you do something equivalent to this? 18:23:35 foo @ if 18:23:38 1 bar ! 18:23:41 1 moo ! 18:23:43 then 18:23:47 even if i explicitly return it 18:27:29 oh bah i forgot a := 18:28:45 Hmm.. 18:29:02 So do you know how I would do somethnig like that? Setting local variables from within the block? 18:29:20 looks like squeak does it lazily 18:29:27 Which means? 18:29:38 y := 1. myblock := [ y := y + 1. y. ]. y := 100. myblock value ==> 101 18:30:10 in fact... y := 200. myblock value. 201 18:30:17 that means squeak has dynamic scope! 18:31:19 So... 18:31:34 Now I need to figure out a good way to implement that. 18:31:37 i guess to close lexically, you have to bind it to your own variables in the declarations. i have no idea how to actually do that 18:31:56 oh dynamic scope is easy. linked list. 18:32:03 it's actually mutating the outer y 18:32:23 anyway, gotta run an errand, bbl 18:35:01 See you 21:44:18 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:39:19 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 23:00:46 --- quit: sproingie (Remote closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.10.11