00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.10.07 00:52:01 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@CPE0000e812679b-CM000a7362da55.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 01:30:01 --- quit: OrngeTide ("gone to bed.") 01:49:55 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 01:59:18 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("slips out quietly.") 02:35:53 --- quit: aum () 04:26:43 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 04:48:56 --- quit: aum () 05:28:30 --- join: Pepe_Le_Pew (n=User@20132167207.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 05:30:02 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool75-236.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:31:29 G'day 05:31:43 Hi 05:32:10 how goes it? 05:34:33 Not doing much really 05:34:38 But I should do some coding. 05:34:42 hh 05:34:51 "heh", even 05:40:28 --- join: aardvarx (n=folajimi@shell2.sea5.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 05:40:35 Greetings, all. 05:40:54 howdy 05:41:11 Hi. 05:55:25 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 05:56:04 Hi. 06:08:33 --- quit: aum () 06:12:22 --- join: Ray_work (n=vircuser@adsl-65-68-201-18.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:12:48 H iRay 06:12:54 er, Ray that is 06:13:12 Good morning Robert, cold here this morning. 06:13:29 Yeah, nice lil' temperature drop 06:13:41 Hi all. 06:13:49 aardvarx, did you see the last pastebin? 06:14:03 Morning Quartus aardvarx PoppaVic all 06:14:10 hey.. anyone comfortable with asm? what CPU "flags" are typical (and what triggers them, other than math/compare?) 06:14:34 Depends... do you count the interrupt flag, for example? 06:14:46 nahh just test[es] 06:15:19 Depends on the CPU, a lot of CPUs set zero and sign flags on move instructions. 06:15:21 Quartus, greetings. 06:15:30 Yes, I received your last pastebin. 06:16:00 Right now, I am working on a system install; hopefully, I will check on it afterwards. 06:16:13 zero as a math/compare, I can see. Sign, I can see when you've gone from unsigned and into signed-values 06:16:16 Quartus, thanks for all your help. 06:16:28 Ray_work, morning. 06:19:36 aardvarx, sure -- the last one is the best-factored. Hopefully it's instructive. 06:38:22 How much do you think things will be ruined on x86, if r/w data is placed in connection to high-level words (which will only exectuce one instruction each, the CALL NEST one)? 06:38:41 Come again? 06:39:02 Writing data flushes the code cache. 06:39:17 umm - you better be on dos or something 06:39:31 Will performance be greatly/at all affected if only this one instructuon is executed? 06:39:48 depends on how often you hit it 06:40:14 I don't think it will be too bad, really. 06:40:27 Guess I'll try to go this way. 06:42:08 might be better if every hit increments a ctr, checks states and either moves along or does the save 06:49:24 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-2-59.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 06:49:31 lo, sproingie 06:49:57 mornin 07:01:24 Hi sproingie 07:01:51 Hi 07:10:19 --- join: Downix (n=nate@6532222hfc209.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 07:11:22 Hi, Downix. 07:11:37 Did you use to be here ages ago? 07:11:50 Hm, working on a z80 Forth or something. 07:12:01 Did you ever write an Operating System of a Downix? :) 07:12:23 Ages ago, yes 07:12:27 and nope 07:12:28 8) 07:13:01 and not z80, just on Forth in general 07:13:11 OK. Which nick did you use? 07:13:12 I've always been more a 6502 fan 07:13:13 8) 07:13:15 Downix 07:13:19 always been my nick 07:13:24 Ah, then I think I confused you with someone else. 07:13:28 at least for the past 8 years 07:13:37 I was thinking 4 years ago. 07:13:46 Actually, I've only done 6502 - never z80. 07:13:54 Even though I was sent a book on the latter. 07:13:55 good little CPU 07:14:06 pity Commodore never properly developed the 16 and 32-bit versions of it 07:14:35 I always thought of the 68000 as the descendant of the 6510. 07:14:55 nope, the 68000 was derived from the 6800 07:15:28 of course the 6502 was an improved clone of the 6800 07:15:34 Right. 07:15:51 now add the 6510 ;-> 07:15:58 Same shit, different name. 07:16:04 Or number, I should say. 07:16:09 heh 07:16:16 the 6502 had some improvements, as did the 6510 07:16:24 not exactly, but 8-bit inovation was FAST 07:16:35 if CBM was smart, and pushed the development, could have remained #1 07:16:41 Someone has been poking me into doing some 6502 coding for a 1kB game contest lately... 07:16:55 when they dumped the amiga, they sealed their doom 07:16:56 65xx's main improvement was in streamlining, "RISC-ifying" the design, made it cost half as much to build 07:16:56 Downix: Instead of relying on 6502/10 until 1993, you mean? ;) 07:17:06 Robert: right. 07:17:24 Poppa: they sealed their doom before then, the Amiga just kept them on life support for longer 07:17:25 That was something of an anachronism, true. But they got the price down all right. 07:17:48 no, they sold off the Amiga to a german concern - big mistake. 07:18:02 That, and their OVER reliance on custom-chips 07:18:09 Poppa: they sold everything to a german concern, Escom bought all of Commodore 07:18:26 do you like gnuForth ? 07:18:33 yep, and I left the comm* shit for CP/M and z80s 07:18:39 Poppa: all chips are custom in the end. CBM's mistake there was in not accepting 3rd party purchases of them, which would have subsidized the production cost. 07:18:41 Pepe_Le_Pew: I don't use it a lot. 07:18:44 Pepe_Le_Pew: you mean Gforth? 07:18:48 yep 07:18:58 it came with my linux distro 07:19:02 Gforth is fun for immediate tests and some docs 07:19:07 its good ? 07:19:13 it's tolerable 07:19:21 more so than most, anyway 07:19:23 Poppa: Did you know that Nintendo tried to purchase CBM chips for their Nintendo? 07:19:28 for the NES I mean 07:19:35 not suprising 07:20:00 CBM's ran on motorolas 07:20:05 I've Gforth, and PFE and such installed, and usually just crank up Gforth for testing 07:20:14 Other companies tried to purchase Amiga chips for a wide variety of applications, from graphics workstations to lottery machines 07:20:27 sproingie: he prolly means their custom-chipds 07:20:30 sproingie: depends on the machine. Amigas, yes. VIC-series, no 07:20:30 chips 07:20:39 discussing just the custom chips here 07:20:46 vic was a 6502 07:21:00 yes, manufactured by MOS, which was a subsidiary of Commodore 07:21:21 MOS also made the custom chips in the VIC-series as well as in the Amiga 07:21:35 oh i keep thinking those were mot 07:21:43 MOS, MOT, easy to confuse 07:21:57 Nope 07:22:02 how forth chips compare to generic 8 bit machines ? 07:22:12 Forth chips are cool 07:22:16 I built one ages ago 07:22:19 commodore was run like enron 07:22:28 they had no hope of surviving 07:22:35 sproingie: No, Enron held nothing on Commodore 07:22:55 note, I speak of the Gould-era Commodore, not the original Commodore 07:23:19 original Commodore was a very different beast, run by Jack Tramiel 07:23:28 that jack 07:23:30 not saying it was better, but it was more honest 07:23:40 Tramiel was plenty evil himself. 07:23:46 Oh definately 07:23:56 jack's pretty infamous for his trail of wreckage 07:23:58 but he was honest about it, no backroom money-laundrying schemes 07:24:06 Honestly dishonest? I don't know about that. 07:24:14 hehe 07:24:18 compared to Gould he was 07:24:41 Gotta hope your shining moment isn't simply in contrast to somebody who's much worse. 07:24:49 then again, compared to irving "gut it" Gould, Enron would be considered an example in honest accounting. 07:25:16 well, tramiel actually started to succeed with atari where he failed with commodore 07:25:30 springie: Jack didn't, his son Sam did. 07:25:31 It's all moot 07:25:44 when Sam had his heart attack, Atari went downhill, and fast 07:25:48 the atari ST was pretty hot shit 07:26:14 but once IBM seriously got into the game, it was all over 07:26:23 * Downix nods 07:27:14 Didn't have to be, plenty of opportunity to dethrone the king, but noone had the ambition to do so 07:28:03 and now Apple is making the same mistake Commodore and Atari did 07:28:14 between apple and IBM, there wasn't much room left 07:28:17 abandoning their differential for quick profits 07:28:34 sproingie: only because they gave up space to apple and IBM. 07:28:36 the drive was on to move to a standard computing platform. no room for atari 07:28:59 * Downix shrugs 07:29:05 i don't remember how much ST's cost either 07:29:09 * sproingie tries wikipedia 07:29:13 depends on when 07:29:15 They weren't astronomical. 07:29:41 in any case, no point crying over spilt milk 07:29:47 can't immediately find it in WP. not as much as a mac anyway 07:30:37 does multithreading hurt forthchip performance ? 07:30:57 Pepe: depends on the forthchip 07:31:03 let-me rephrase 07:31:04 Threading is a mess. 07:31:30 Poppa: I've seen worse 07:31:44 Never seen a forthchip, I meant in general 07:31:51 ok 07:32:03 if it can be done right, threading can speed up performance 07:32:10 most coders don't like threading, however 07:32:13 if we change our processores from RISC-likes and CISCs wannabe RISCs to forth oriented processores (i.e. stack aritmetic) its would be better ? 07:32:15 so, they bog down the system 07:32:18 Threading(userspace,kernelspace), fork(process) 07:32:41 pepe: probably wouldn't happen, but yes, cleaner to impliment if nothing else. 07:32:45 http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/3015/16bit.html 07:33:02 Pepe_Le_Pew, these questions "Is it worse? Is it better? Does it hurt performance?" They're amazingly vague, and the answer is alwasy 'it depends'. 07:33:23 "risc vs cisc" is amazingly overblown 07:33:27 $999 with a monochrome monitor. 07:33:40 sproingie: Indeed. Hard to tell the difference. 07:33:46 intel's israeli unit showed that you can have a speedy cisc chip on yesterday's technology 07:34:34 I built my own CPU's for awhile 07:34:38 no more tho 07:35:03 Using what? 07:35:09 FPGA's 07:35:15 Xilinx Spartan II's to be exact 07:35:15 Ah, OK. 07:36:09 Sometimes I think #forth worries too much about chipsets. 07:36:21 Poppa: most people do 07:36:25 not really 07:36:29 In a way that means it rarely gets discussed here at all, sure. 07:36:29 my dream is to write my own operating system, my own compiler for my own computer language, in my own processor and computer 07:36:37 most people think of OS and apps 07:36:37 they worry more about the tools of the job than in getting the job done at all. 07:36:54 * Pepe_Le_Pew narcisic 07:37:07 "narsistic" 07:37:07 Pepe: been there, done that, don't recommend it 07:37:08 8) 07:37:41 wet dreams are fine, when yer still in JHS, HS or CC 07:37:51 i will have my own internet browser, with my own internet code 07:38:01 Will you have your own internet? 07:38:01 www.computers.com.pepe 07:38:09 that's nice - stop panting 07:39:18 One of the few "friends" I have from HS works with UBM designing/building chips - He's never once mentioned "language" about a design, so.. Deal with it. 07:39:25 UBM/IBM 07:40:27 *nods* 07:40:47 Mmm... CPU design should be done with a soldering iron. 07:41:00 I once dreamed of that, but it's not for me. I realized, I honestly don't enjoy doing it much 07:41:01 8) 07:41:08 Yes, a very small one with millions of tiny, tiny transistors. :) 07:41:13 Millions? 07:41:21 Do you know how many transistors the first transistor computer had? 07:41:26 92. 07:41:27 If I have to solder each one, I'd like to keep it at millions at most. 07:41:36 a few thousand, IIRC Robert 07:41:47 92? egads, I feel so old 07:41:48 8) 07:41:49 No, 92. But that was using a drum memory and worked in serial mode. 07:41:52 1953. 07:41:57 ok 07:41:59 even RISC and CISC makes me a bit antsy 07:42:04 So hardly what we'd call a CPU by any faintly modern standard. 07:42:13 then again, I get into arguements with guys about digital vs film photography 07:42:28 Quartus: It did execute instructions, though. 07:42:32 * PoppaVic snorts 07:42:34 thousands of forth processors in a array, each corresponding to a screen bit 07:42:43 this is the dream video card 07:42:44 I've done photography. 07:42:46 Heh. 07:42:57 I'm in photography now 07:43:12 Pepe_Le_Pew: are you smoking crack, or just a rugrat? 07:44:08 why on earth would you want to join millions of processes just to draw on the screen 07:44:12 I love arguing with people that think that there's a digital camera capable of capturing the same level of detail as film 07:44:28 Downix: My best shots were always triXpan and push-processed. You almost can't use film anymore w/o doing it yerself, it seems. The idea of 'pixels' in photography is vague and digital makes it worse. 07:44:38 that would be the slowest video card ever created 07:44:51 using, let's say Technical Pan, in my Kodak Brownie here, you'd need 960 megapixels to match the image quality. 07:45:16 Poppa: I do it myself. 8) 07:45:17 sproingie: maybe every processor would handle a section of screen/window? Why 'forth' I have no idea. 07:45:21 there's digital cameras that have the fidelity of film grain. super-expensive CCD's. cheap film. 07:45:38 Downix: yeah, the have no idea the resolution. 07:45:47 springie: cheap film + cheap camera 07:45:47 the[y] 07:45:58 well you can put a good lens on any camera 07:46:02 er 07:46:05 on any type of camera 07:46:22 springie: yup, just saying 07:46:24 I'd be happy to use a new "back" on my 35/lenses - and get digital, but not at the prices I've heard of. 07:46:33 sproingie: untrue 07:46:37 cheap film + fantastic lens gives you better quality than fantastic film + cheap lens 07:46:40 Downix, once we get to 960 megapixels, there will still be maniacs claiming film is better. No point in arguing. 07:46:45 right 07:46:52 Quartus: right. 07:47:07 Quartus: I sell cameras for a living tho, and enjoy the arguements with my co-workers 07:47:08 8) 07:47:21 even a low megapixel CCD with a great lens. the mars explorer's CCD is like 4 megapixels, my $150 nikon's got more than that 07:47:35 the lenses however cost like 25 grand each 07:47:47 Downix, a crappy picture taken with the best camera & film in the world is still crappy. I worry less about the medium and more about the art. 07:47:51 sproingie: The Nikon D2H is a 4MP 07:47:53 I want a CCD back for my 35 frame, and I'd love an attachment for the CCD to my spotting-scope. 07:47:58 Quartus: Agreed. 07:48:45 I enjoy film, it's an artform 07:48:58 now, that being said, I do shoot digitally from time to time 07:49:00 film is a medium 07:49:19 Poppa: film itself, yes. Film photography is the artform 07:49:23 I'd suggest photography is the artform 07:49:37 my brother does black and white, since he largely deals with contrast and light. his reason is that it's cheaper and easier and "looks cool and stuff" 07:49:49 nothing wrong with that 07:49:59 Most of my work is in movie film, Super8 and 16mm 07:50:06 gotta admit, his photos are nifty. i keep telling him to get online and post 'em 07:50:11 which is even more fun 07:50:12 8) 07:50:49 One of the guys I was stationed with had an album of B&W "nudes" (ex-girlfriends), and trust me: 80% is the scene and 20% or so is damn fine film/developing choices. 07:51:06 *nods* 07:51:08 he's an artist who refuses to say he is. he's otherwise the biggest slacker i've seen, complete skater dude, acts stoned all the time 07:51:08 yup 07:51:27 i figure if that works for him, then he should keep at it 07:51:39 when you can appreciate the individual hairs on an arm, THAT is one hell of a choice for lighting/angle 07:51:40 hope he can afford rent is all :) 07:52:05 he won't, sadly. 07:52:28 The market for B&W is really limited. 07:52:33 sproingie, I'm guessing he's still a kid? 07:52:43 not saying he'll make a career out of that 07:52:49 Poppa: depends, I see a lot of B&W demand in art mags 07:52:54 I can definitely see a "coffee-table book", but damn.. 07:52:59 just hoping he has his shit together just enough to get by doing whatever 07:53:20 Downix: that'd rely on the def of "art" - iffy for the last few decades 07:53:59 Quartus: i think of him as a kid, he's 13 years my junior. which makes him 20 now. not a kid, but definitely acts like one 07:54:17 Art is just not a worthwhile target anymore, unless you get a federal subsidy. 07:54:21 then again, i'm 33 and i don't have most of my shit together 07:54:24 20 is a kid. You don't see many 35-year-old skater dudes; he'll have to sort something out between now and then. 07:54:43 sproingie: my sympathies - similar hereabouts 07:55:08 he wants to get a career doing photography for skater magazines 07:55:18 "when you get past puberty.." (I am!) "Keep dreaming, 'Drew" 07:55:58 i wouldn't call it respectable, but hey if he gets it, he'll be the first one in the family that didn't just drift into a career 07:56:26 "respectable" is moot; what isn't is quality or value. 07:56:31 If he has the drive he can do it 07:56:38 at 20 I drifted along too 07:56:42 now I have focus 07:56:59 I've maintained for decades that "nude studies" can be absolutely a test of a artists. 07:57:18 *nods* 07:57:33 ..and we don't have to talk about monster-tits, snatch or "pecs" 07:58:05 Some folks just plain-old have "an eye" for scenes, lights, angles and such. 07:58:46 *nods* 07:58:50 dammit, all that talk about atari earlier ... now i have that Yars Revenge song stuck in my head again 07:58:51 exactly 07:59:02 and, in some cases - like this - color is more a hinderance than a tool. 07:59:08 I spent a year at college for cinematography to realize that I was teaching the teachers 07:59:12 * sproingie sings "Yars Revenge is new from Atari ... have you played Atari today?" 07:59:15 MAKE IT STOP 07:59:57 blonde-hair, on an arm, is just not as "dramatic" as SEEING a hair on an arm 08:01:23 color's a perfectly good tool, we see in color after all. just good to take it out sometimes to see what else is there 08:01:33 even ansel adams did color sometimes 08:01:35 I agree 08:01:52 yup 08:01:56 and, remember: color is "survival oriented" - not ideation. 08:02:25 technically, our existence is survival oriented 08:02:34 doesn't mean we can't enjoy it 08:02:48 because of the way eyes work, recall that "color" requires full daylight/exposure 08:03:12 sproingie: never said you could not, just that it was not the "end all" 08:03:53 For family/family-event photos, hell yes: color could be important - they ARE "snapshots", after all 08:04:09 for ART, I dunno - I'm iffy on it 08:04:13 if you're just reproducing a viewpoint, sure, but you can play with color. saturated colors in a dark scene, plays with people's heads 08:04:28 and playing with people's heads is what art's all about :) 08:04:34 no 08:05:06 art is about expression of emotions the rest hedges into politics 08:05:21 i'm not going to entertain views on what compromises "real" art suffice to say that opinions differ 08:05:31 s/compromises/comprises/ 08:06:46 for some, politics is an art. more like a finely honed craft that produces what, i dunno. power? 08:07:44 same, same - from my view. They try to effect emotional-change. 08:08:13 and, frankly: emotions are a poor tool for ultimate decisions. 08:09:08 The same is true for pure-logic 08:09:24 not many carpenters can work with just a hammer 08:09:30 gotta use all your tools 08:09:40 whatever. 08:10:34 * sproingie . o O ( we discuss forth, simplicity, politics, art, emotion, and a variety of technical subjects ) 08:10:59 most are not really 'technical' 08:27:49 *nods* 08:36:16 Art is art.. Meaning, you can't "codify" the WHY, but it DOES. 08:38:19 Anyway, I need the phone.. mbrb 08:38:21 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 08:54:43 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 08:55:05 Grr...I hate how innumerate this country is... 08:57:44 All I can say to that is: 5. 09:02:35 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-246.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:03:25 * PoppaVic sighs 09:03:46 I hate burnining RT that can be productive 09:09:01 rt? 09:09:25 To you 6502 fans: what's the purpose of putting code in the zero page? 09:09:31 Realtime 09:09:39 (as is done with the C64 "get BASIC character" routine) 09:11:32 Speed, as I recall. Single instruction fetch and store from zero-page. 09:12:43 Instruction fetching from zp is faster as well? I only thought data fetching (using the special zp instructions) was. 09:15:36 As far as I know it's only data, yes. I don't remember any of the BASIC routines living in zero page. 09:16:30 Possibly instruction fetch was faster from zero page; I never benched it. This is all distant memories for me, though. :) 09:16:57 There is one, very short. 09:17:04 Anyway, thanks, and brb (food) 09:19:11 OK, I give. Tootles 09:19:14 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 09:20:28 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 09:20:42 --- quit: OrngeTide (Client Quit) 09:21:50 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 10:00:13 ok, it appears that anything is possible, the WHite Sox are in contention 10:32:57 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:33:43 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@84.58.129.193) joined #forth 10:56:47 --- quit: Downix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:48:07 --- quit: Pepe_Le_Pew ("retart x") 11:56:59 --- quit: aardvarx ("Cheers...") 13:35:23 --- join: serg_ghost (n=z@ts18-a57.Moscow.dial.rol.ru) joined #forth 13:35:37 hi folks ! 13:36:02 i'm in Google Earth now, pse throw me coords of some interesting places ! 13:36:26 now i try to find Coliseum in Rome, failfully 13:36:53 Hehe. 13:37:02 I don't know of any interesting coordinates, sorry. 13:38:11 hm, is the Coliseum round or oval ? 13:38:34 I think it's pretty round. 13:40:40 area51 would be interesting... 13:41:25 Heh. 13:41:33 Yes. Look for UFOs. 13:41:41 what's it ? 13:42:22 UFO nuts think that they keep captured aliens there. 13:42:35 It's somewhere in northen Nevada, iirc. 13:44:03 it's not really known what they do in that base, so I think that could be a reason for the area 51 stories. 13:44:12 * serg_ghost trying to find Chechnya w/o paper map 13:44:41 virl: It's not really known what the US military do anywhere, but more often than not it includes torture. ;) 13:47:04 and sometimes there are some really interesting movie captures of a space mission, where some objects in the space moved, it wasn't known what they were, so it's also interesting whats true about that. however the universe is very big, I would find it very crazy if we would be the only lifeforms who think digital clocks are cool. 13:49:30 oh, yeah, the book 'the Hitchikers Guide to Galaxy' impressed me somehow.. 13:53:06 i found Grozny and attempt to find the remains of 'president's palace' 13:55:11 StPetersburg refused to load at all - only very crude overall image, "big building" resolution 14:13:15 how is Space Shuttle launch pod exactly named ? 14:21:20 hi everyone 14:42:41 hi crc 14:45:43 --- quit: serg_ghost (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:48:22 * Raystm2 gets to go home early :) 14:55:30 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 14:58:35 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:58:44 --- quit: virsys (Connection timed out) 16:20:40 --- join: Buschhardt (n=chatzill@p54B45C13.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 16:21:48 --- part: Buschhardt left #forth 16:22:08 --- join: Buschhardt (n=chatzill@p54B45C13.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 16:22:20 Hallo 16:24:04 I'm interessted in forth and have a little question: its possible to compile forth (and the programm) into a EXE-File on a windows OS ? 16:24:53 yes, assuming you use a forth with turnkey support 16:25:14 Have you a link ? 16:26:32 http://ronware.org/reva (turnkey support is in 5.1c, but not totally tested yet) 16:27:09 Thank you very much, and have a nice evening or day ;) 16:27:41 Bye 16:27:54 no problem 16:28:01 --- quit: Buschhardt ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050919]") 16:35:53 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-181-147.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 16:51:14 --- part: lament left #forth 18:29:46 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708444.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 18:30:07 --- join: cmonkeyb (n=cmonkeyb@pcp01017369pcs.washly01.sc.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:30:50 hi all 18:36:02 Hi. 18:36:09 hello robert 18:36:18 i have a quick question 18:36:30 is anyone familiar with tinyos and nesc 18:36:50 or a point me to the channel that knows 18:37:09 Not me, sorry. 18:37:25 The other people in here may do, but... 18:37:33 They seem to be sleeping right now. 18:41:52 so you know forth 18:43:05 Yes. 18:43:22 In fact, I just copied my Forth system from the 386 computer. :) 18:43:51 tell me about forth 18:43:59 What do you want to know? 18:44:01 i know very little about the lang. 18:44:14 what is it like 18:44:19 fortran 18:44:22 ? 18:44:45 it's not much like fortran 18:44:45 i just know its old school 18:45:05 but it is used for alot of embedded stuff 18:45:05 It's generally minimalist, and simple. 18:45:15 (thus the embedded stuff) 18:45:29 usually embedded, yes. it has virtually no runtime policy, so it's a lot like asm that way 18:45:55 It's also easy to compile fast and efficiently. 18:46:31 and like asm it has no typing or garbage collection or safety, which makes it less used in "high level" code 18:46:50 Hm, it's extensible though. 18:46:58 Didn't crc implement a gc? 18:46:58 though you can get pretty abstract with forth, as it's symbol-based like lisp 18:47:12 Type safety is rare though. 18:47:26 crc isn't interested in gc. i am. mostly in an abstract sense, not enough to actually do it :) 18:48:21 Ah. 18:49:03 forth idioms sort of resist gc. it's possible, but it'd probably cease to be forth 18:49:41 cool 18:49:42 though crc's zeal about vectored words might make it easier in some ways 18:49:49