00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.10.05 02:04:14 --- quit: Pepe_Le_Pew (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:22:49 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-55-17.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 04:24:09 --- join: Ray_work2 (n=vircuser@adsl-65-68-201-174.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 04:25:59 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:26:08 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:08:40 --- nick: Ray_work2 -> Ray_work 06:09:09 Good Morning all. 06:11:10 Morning, Ray 06:11:28 How's your day going, Robert? 06:11:58 I only have a few hours of uptime, but not too bad. 06:12:17 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 06:12:22 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-104.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:12:22 Hi, tathi 06:12:27 And PoppaVic 06:12:35 morning tathi and PoppaVic :) 06:12:35 Hi all :) 06:12:45 Hi folks 06:17:04 In other news... I wasn't able to recreate the problem Mr. Quartus was having in Gforth with later. 06:17:16 My test worked interactively. 06:17:33 : later r> r> swap >r >r ; 06:17:47 : foo 1 . later 3 . ; 06:18:02 : bar foo 2 . later 4 . ; 06:18:06 bar 06:18:09 1 2 3 4 ok 06:18:23 His problem was that later doesn't work while interpreting. 06:18:28 it works fine for compiled words. 06:18:39 maybe it's a version-issue? 06:18:48 this was during interpreting. 06:19:11 OHH 06:19:22 Using LATER to return to the interpreter temporarily doesn't work. 06:19:32 I see. 06:20:13 sure, I wouldn't expect it too, as you should have the return-to word already defined and such. 06:20:30 Well, that's what Quartus wanted it for, at least partly. 06:20:44 I gather he just built some other way to do things. 06:20:50 makes sence to me now 06:20:55 Yes. 06:24:32 Today I've seen people from the US, England and New Zealand misspell "sense". :) 06:25:14 how the hell are they spelling it? It's a trivial word. 06:25:33 PoppaVic: See above. 06:25:42 ahhhh 06:25:48 a "clew"! 06:26:33 An interesting misspelling in Swedish: people write "aenda" instead of "enda" (the latter means "only", or "single", while the former means "ass") 06:34:16 huh... damn. 06:37:08 hmm How the hell can an assembler determine if you want signed-results or unsigned results - from addition/etc? 06:37:27 I doesn't. You determine. 06:37:50 For example, on x86 you'd use imul/idiv/jg etc. instead of mul/div/ja 06:37:59 Robert: Sorry, about spelling problems. We elderly grew up with out a need to communicate with the written word, we're out of practice. Please continue to upgrade me :) 06:38:18 Robert: the former are signed, the latter unsigned? 06:38:26 yup. 06:38:28 PoppaVic: Yes. 06:38:36 ahh. I was afraid of that. 06:38:37 Ray_work: Not a problem, I just like pointing things out. :) 06:38:47 Afraid? No reason to be :) 06:39:04 Yeah there is: I am tinkering a pseudoasm opcode-set. 06:39:07 I like that much better than the C version, where things get converted without it being obvious. 06:40:15 actually, I'm sure C itself knows. It's just the rest of us ;-) 06:40:37 :) 06:41:23 Heh. I found some cool things when picking up my old 486 laptop. 06:41:37 A programming language based on smileys, for example, with a Minix-only compiler for it. 06:42:30 lol 06:42:44 Seems to me that we'd need a DCELL register for results.. hmm.. 06:42:50 you collect the most interesting stuff... 06:42:59 True. 06:43:13 Collect? Write. ;) 06:44:54 I was going to say 'write', but I wasn't sure... :) 06:45:47 It's so totally useless, it just has to me mine. 06:52:51 Robert: you can do such a thing in forth with Glypher. 06:53:01 each word a pictogram 06:53:23 * PoppaVic sighs 06:53:25 prob'ly be a natural forth for orientals. 06:54:32 :D 06:54:51 I was thinking about that, actually... just to abuse unicode. 07:04:12 hehe 07:15:26 back laters, folks 07:15:28 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:18:53 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-2-59.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:18:57 Hi. 07:19:58 'lo sproingie. 07:43:57 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 07:44:07 Hi, virl 07:44:15 hi 07:45:05 * virl is cutting now the raw edges of his xell concepts. suggestions, questions, etc. #xell 07:52:45 forth isn't popular, I think that's said because it's a great language and then it only gets attacked by some idiots(java, .net, C++, etc.), when it's mentioned and described. 07:53:02 * virl is today a little bit depressed. 07:54:55 Good thing too. If it was, we'd have to put up with all the idiots who use whatever's popular. ;) 07:55:40 Great point! 07:56:13 virl: did you happen to look at the wx api projects? 07:57:46 I've been looking some at Smalltalk. 07:57:56 Seems nice. Forthy spirit 07:57:59 tathi: a good point... but I'm sensitive when someone says something bad about my favorites 07:58:26 This from the guy who comes on here on a regular basis shouting "forth is dead"? 07:58:36 Robert: yes.. squeak or? 07:58:51 virl: Squeak is very big and all, I was thinking about the core language really. 07:59:49 the base smalltalk language actually is "forthy" in a way. lots of postfixed ops, almost nothing built in 08:00:10 Quartus, please... I said that because from the view of such guys. I never said that I don't like forth. In reality I think it's one of the biggest inventions since computers. 08:00:15 sproingie: Exactly my point. 08:00:24 sproingie: Do you have a lot of experience with it? 08:00:51 virl, don't complain about being sensitive when you have no regard for the sensitivities of others. 08:00:57 Robert: not really. tried squeak, found it a train wreck. a spectacular disaster, but a disaster nonetheless 08:01:06 ah.. and I showed them your site today, I think they don't like them. words like 'disgusting' and such. 08:01:19 sproingie: How so? 08:01:25 Quartus: that's a handicap of me. hopefully that changes someday. 08:01:35 * tathi spent a little time playing with GNU smalltalk a while back. It was fun. :) 08:01:39 Robert: the UI. it's awful. morphic's marginally better than mvc, but it's still a disaster 08:02:15 what website are you talking about, virl? And who is 'them'? 08:02:20 even as an ide. the inspector panes appeal to old-skool smalltalkers and absolutely no one else. 08:02:21 * Robert was thinking about trying to implement a small Smalltalk environment, but probably will end up borrowing some stuff from Forth. 08:03:09 i always thought of self as a much nicer language than smalltalk 08:03:12 Quartus: your Quartus forth website. and they are some stupid kids from my class. 08:03:24 i think the only implementation of self out there lacks the really nice JIT the original version had 08:04:16 Hmm.. what is self like? 08:04:17 Uh huh. You decided to show my website to some kids from your class, and somehow they find it disgusting. Well, thanks for sharing. 08:04:18 and then there's Slate ;) 08:04:31 nowadays i'd hitch my wagon to Slate, which seems to be making good progress 08:05:20 Quartus: ok, next time I ignore them. 08:05:38 slate doesn't seem to have the minimalistic philosophy of core smalltalk tho 08:07:06 i should really work on the retroforth gc. main problem with that is that either it's an ala-carte curiosity, or i have to define a whole new language on top of forth to make use of it 08:07:54 sry, Quartus 08:07:55 words like allot dont really respect a gc'd heap 08:08:46 damn those disrespecting words :) 08:08:54 in fact anything that assumes a fixed and unchanging address for objects makes gc hard 08:09:07 i could use a conservative gc, but that's really kind of a dead end 08:09:14 damn those disrespecting words? 08:10:30 allot isn't so bad since you can't guarantee it won't align your address first. i can probably redefine "align" to something more radical 08:11:30 and get people to use ALLOCATE. words like , are kickers. as is that whole untyped thing and the tendency to play with pointer arithmetic 08:11:58 So to implement gc thoroughly, you'd be removing a lot of the freedoms Forth permits. 08:13:25 possibly. might not be so bad tho. if i just forget about doing it down to such a low level and just make the dictionary and the ALLOCATE heap gc'd, it should be fine 08:13:43 dictionary's tricky 08:13:44 I rarely use ALLOCATE; I might not even notice I was in a gc'd Forth. :) 08:14:31 i could possibly gc only no-named words. if you want to give it a name, use IS or ALIAS 08:14:48 --- join: aardvarx (n=folajimi@shell4.sea5.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 08:14:54 How can you gc :noname words? How would you track the use of the xt? 08:14:55 those are the sorts of entries you'd want to gc anyway 08:15:30 Greetings, all. 08:15:36 hi aardvarx 08:15:40 Hi, aardvarx. 08:15:45 Hi Quartus 08:15:49 conservative gc. in fact i'm probably stuck with conservative gc the whole time 08:15:50 Hi Robert 08:15:56 --- nick: Raystm2_ -> nanstm 08:16:04 sproingie, I agree. Hardly seems worth the effort. 08:16:39 given that adding types to an XT is more or less an intractible problem. at least on 32 bit 08:17:01 64 bit i could probably steal a byte and say 56 bits is enough for you 08:17:03 Well, how any bits of type info do you need for an xt? 08:17:16 probably just a couple 08:17:31 On a 32-bit system, it's a fair bet that xts are all even, so you've got a bit there. 08:17:40 PTI, but is it possible to get Forth to recognize the structure of a multi-dimensional array? 08:17:50 In fact they may be aligned on four-byte boundaries, and that'd be two bits. 08:17:52 yah but how do i tell that from an ordinary odd int? 08:18:12 i could do pointer stuffing, but that doesn't help unless i also stuff ints and restrict them to a 30 bit range 08:18:34 i could do that, but having to decode every int would be ... non-forthlike 08:18:44 Depending on what an xt is in your system -- suppose it's a pointer -- you may be able to interrogate it for type info. 08:18:54 smalltalk does that as do most lisps and schemes 08:19:00 Either C seems to do a lousy job with arrays, or I am not using the right tools to understand the arrangement of an array. 08:19:18 aardvarx, what are you trying to do? 08:19:34 I am trying to implement the idea we discussed on Monday. 08:19:44 which one? 08:19:49 What idea was that that requires multi-dimensional arrays? 08:19:57 I thought I could have alphabet[24]... 08:20:15 Quartus: hm, decode it, deref it, and look for a bit pattern in the deref'd address? could do that 08:20:16 but it seems I need to use alphabet[24][10] 08:20:33 Or something of that nature. 08:20:37 sproingie, yes, store the type info in the object, the xt is just a pointer. 08:20:41 i'll call it the "reagan gc". a conservative that does "trust but verify" 08:21:11 Of course, it is a character array (i.e. char alphabet[24][10]) 08:21:18 i suppose stripping the low bits off an XT before calling it wouldn't be too prohibitive 08:21:24 sproingie, I'm not sure you could always ensure no false hits. Let's see... if the xt points within dictionary bounds, is properly aligned, is pointing at the right part of a header... might work. 08:21:34 aardvarx, ok. What have you tried? 08:21:42 When I do the sizeof() operation, is simply returns 240. I had hoped for 24 10 08:21:56 sizeof always returns one value. 08:22:04 So I noticed. 08:22:16 pointing into the middle of a dict definition is possible too. return stack 08:22:29 sproingie, not if your xt isn't an executable address. 08:22:53 Anyway, is it possible to have Forth create a 2D array? 08:23:00 aardvarx, yes. 08:23:18 Not the lame C convention, I hope. 08:23:31 aardvarx: forth doesn't have a concept of array built-in to begin with, so paradoxically you can do anything 08:23:46 sproingie, Quartus already mentioned that on Monday. 08:23:47 i believe FSL has multi-d arrays that use the fortran layout 08:24:03 aardvarx: lame C convention? which do you mean? 08:24:27 aardvarx, thinking back to the last time I built a string array, I didn't use a mult-dimensional one as such. 08:24:45 I would like to use scripts instead of repeatedly entering commands from a prompt. 08:24:59 It gets old very quickly. 08:25:21 array ( cells -- ) create cells allot does> ( n -- addr ) cells + ; 08:25:32 That makes absolutely no sense to me. 08:25:48 you're missing a : at the start. 08:25:50 I suspect that I could put entries on separate lines in a script, right? 08:26:09 aardvarx, I'm afraid I'm lost. Script? Prompt? Are you talking about C? Forth? Something else? 08:26:09 and a swap after does>, I believe. 08:26:15 tathi, yes. 08:26:23 Quartus, Forth. 08:26:40 I'm not sure that talking about C in this forum would get me very far. 08:26:40 Ok, Forth. What do you mean, script? Separate lines for what? 08:26:53 by "script", you mean "put code in a file, rather than just typing it in" ? 08:27:01 Yes. 08:27:07 Well, of course. That's how you write code. 08:27:08 I think he means .f files.. 08:27:14 Uh... 08:27:14 Open a text file, start typing. 08:27:20 You never mentioned that before. 08:27:26 * Quartus blinks 08:27:28 read Starting Forth 08:27:34 it has an array example 08:27:35 Nothing I read ever suggested that either. 08:27:42 aardvarx, how did you think it worked? 08:27:46 aardvarx, it's different from forth to forth. 08:27:51 generalizing it into multidimensional arrays is left as an exercise 08:28:05 Gforth: write a text file. gforth mycode.txt 08:28:16 or .fs or whatever extension floats your boat. 08:28:23 gforth prefers fs 08:28:24 I've never seen that. NEVER 08:28:26 or, from inside Gforth: include mycode.txt 08:28:52 aardvarx: or you use block files.. that could be also called 'scripts' 08:28:54 arrays are just contiguous chunks of memory. if you have memory access, you have arrays 08:29:00 at least as far as untyped languages are concerned 08:29:07 sproingie, I knew that too. 08:29:10 aardvarx: do you know the differences between blocks and source? 08:29:40 The last time I needed a quick string array, I used a simple definition of "place," to write them as counted strings at HERE, and then stuffed all the start addresses into an array. 08:29:42 It still doesn't give me a 24 x Y array. 08:30:04 it's as simple as allocating 24 * Y amount of space 08:30:22 Populating it is a bit tougher. 08:30:28 sproingie, is there a way to verify the allocation? 08:30:44 trust that forth will do it 08:31:14 The sizeof() function in C is insufficient for such a task; and I have no idea how to proceed. 08:31:34 if you really want, you can zero-fill the space or fill it with 0xDEADBEEF or whatever 08:31:36 FWIW, I just stumbled onto http://www.forth.org/svfig/Len/arrays.htm today. 08:31:57 or you can use an array library 08:32:07 which is probably a lot less painful than doing it by hand 08:32:31 sproingie, I heard that. 08:32:40 I just did it in C... 08:32:46 Not fun at all :( 08:32:59 a good array library will do strength reduction on the row index (or if you think in fortran, the column index) 08:33:07 makes 'em much faster to access 08:33:12 Kind of overkill, though, for most uses. 08:33:13 Perhaps I could even get Forth to read the names from a file? 08:33:29 Quartus: not if it's something like a framebuffer you're banging on 08:33:37 Right, but that's not most uses. 08:33:49 probably 08:34:00 and a good compiler will strength-reduce anyway 08:34:10 the library just doesn't assume you have a good compiler 08:34:19 I'll start with the syntax you suggested... 08:34:40 ok, gotta go, got a 9am meeting 08:34:47 Same here. 08:34:51 Cheers. 08:34:53 oh. Ok. 08:34:54 --- quit: aardvarx ("leaving") 08:34:59 I was about to show him some code. 08:35:02 He's not a patient fellow. 08:36:21 the 'modern programmers' I think 08:37:00 no patients these days, everybody wants with 3 clicks the solution. 08:37:25 http://pastebin.com/383905 08:37:27 the time for .net and java things 08:37:59 That's my throw-together, I'd tidy it up if I used it often. 08:39:29 longer than the C thing 08:39:39 Fancier. The string storage is packed. 08:40:11 in which context do you mean here 'packed'? 08:41:00 It's not a two-dimensional array; there's no wasted space if a string is shorter than a specified second dimension. The strings are end-to-end in memory. 08:41:32 ah.. 08:41:58 and place and place, are common-usage words that have wider applicability, as does array. 08:41:58 right. 08:42:21 hmm ok, I don't know them. 08:42:33 I only know does arrays. 08:42:34 Simple to put a wrapper around the 'here n greek !' stuff to make it neater, if that's a concern. 08:42:59 brb 08:44:01 It's so simple to knock together a data structure like this, I find the huge FSL-type arrays package serious overkill for most tasks. 08:45:36 There, I amended it with comments and stack diagrams. 08:48:30 This could be done with non-counted strings, too, but I prefer to code for what the app requires. 08:49:38 am I the only one who found aardvark's reaction to the revelation that source can be stored in files, a bit strange? 09:00:12 me too. 09:00:22 Especially since he *did* ask that question the other day. 09:01:36 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/forth/05.10.03 at 13:36 09:03:37 I thought he had! 09:10:52 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool198-37.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:11:03 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-55-17.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:11:18 back.. finally. 09:17:41 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 09:18:07 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-55-17.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:31:55 --- join: madwork_ (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 09:42:44 --- join: foobarz (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 09:46:07 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:46:11 --- nick: foobarz -> madwork 09:48:18 hey mad 09:49:52 --- quit: madwork_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:06:01 There, tidied it up: http://pastebin.com/384028 10:21:40 hmm, why do you think it was strange? 10:32:52 --- join: snoopy_17 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-121-104.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 10:38:15 --- quit: snoopy42 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:38:39 --- nick: snoopy_17 -> Snoopy42 10:56:32 --- join: aardvarx (n=folajimi@shell2.sea5.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 10:57:16 All, please pardon my abrupt exit earlier; I had to move to a different location which was about a half-hour away. 10:57:47 heh 10:58:24 And, here I was thinking about bailing and cogitating dinner 11:01:33 Quartus, is there an easy way to identify an "unindexed array"? 11:01:52 wtf is an "unindexed array"? 11:02:16 If I knew, I wouldn't be asking. 11:02:29 can you flesh out an example and use? 11:03:01 I'm following a code sample. 11:03:03 http://www.forth.org/svfig/Len/arrays.htm 11:03:27 ohhh 11:03:50 funky.. It's just a buffer 11:04:32 Well, seeing that it is an array... 11:04:48 yeah - he's saying he objects to calling a 'buffer' an array 11:05:33 so, my bet would be that his forth is embedded a buffer in dictionary-space, and letting him r/w anything to it (based on size) 11:06:08 It's tough reading/dealing with F-PC examples - as they are DOS-based messes 11:07:08 He's (apparently) of the opinion that an "array" differs because you know it's element-size, array-length and most likely have the data set forever. 11:08:23 Basically, he's splitting his "hares" because they are creating buffers inside the dictionary-space. 11:12:27 Did that help, or did your connection croak? 11:12:40 Not really. 11:13:06 I mentioned earlier that I was trying to implement this in C, but that did not work out too well. 11:13:16 what part is confusing? All he did was proclaim he wanted a special word for "buffers" 11:13:19 ahhh 11:13:23 I tried using sizeof() to determine the dimensions of the array. 11:13:36 you CAN, but it's sorta' messy 11:13:55 I would recommend using a struct, instead 11:13:59 Quartus says that the function returns a single value, so it is not particularly useful for multi-dimensional arrays. 11:14:16 sizeof? of course 11:14:19 The sizeof() function, that is. 11:15:07 There are two solutions that I can recommend: 1) Use a macro(s) and malloc; 2) Use malloc and a struct. 11:15:12 In MATLAB, it is easy to determine the dimensions of a matrix. 11:16:09 in the former, you'd use a macro such as: "base[MATRIX(x,y,z)]" 11:17:01 and in the latter, the ranges are members of the struct and indexed from the final (lying "foo data[1];"). 11:18:50 Some folks may also recommend something like: "p=malloc( int[X][Y][Z] );". I've done it, but it never makes me happy. 11:19:42 --- join: aardvarx_ (n=folajimi@shell2.sea5.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 11:19:53 The folks in ##C can help vastly with that latter mess, because sizeof() WILL work with that and some nasty phrasing. 11:20:25 I am versed neither with malloc() nor macros... 11:20:29 I never saw much point in creating a square-wheel to round it out 11:20:47 Perhaps there is a way to use Forth to achieve the same goal? 11:20:51 scratch that. 11:20:59 umm. ok. 11:21:02 Perhaps there is an EASIER way to use Forth to achieve the same goal? 11:21:49 use a colon-word to calculate indices, and allot to get the space, and a var to return the base. 11:22:41 : 2D ( a' x y --- a' ) .... 11:22:58 I still like structs so you can have ranges 11:23:11 No need for data types, I presume? 11:23:18 ( a' / ( a 11:23:34 I sure would think it over. Depends on the task at hand 11:24:07 Is this "Dictionary" available online? 11:24:37 how about... : Matrix ( rows cols unitsize --- ) .... DOES> ... ; 11:24:45 which "Dictionary"? 11:24:48 Some of the "words" are rather intuitive (e.g. create); others are rather suspect (e.g. allot) 11:25:17 oh.. well, I use "info gforth" and (within gforth) see 11:25:57 how many dims to your matrix? 11:26:33 24 * Y, where Y <=10 11:26:51 And, if it only has a program-life: can you allocate a dynamic memory-block? 11:27:22 are you using gforth? 11:28:05 aardvarx_: Quartus wrote a solution to the problem you have (I think). http://pastebin.com/384028 11:28:06 I guess so; but I would rather stay away from references to the term "dynamic" at this point in gforth to avoid any further confusion. 11:28:13 tathi, thanks! 11:28:17 not a 2D array, but an array of string pointers. 11:29:10 see allocate and free; write a word to compile a special "variable", returning the base and dims; write an indexer using those. 11:30:46 Your var is actually a variant of "constant".. Identifying the buffer and lines/rows (and maybe unitsize) 11:32:24 <_ja> say i want to put some commands into a sparc openboot prom to be executed upon boot 11:32:39 Quartus solved the problem with less than fifty lines! Unbelievable!! 11:32:39 <_ja> now, i can do things that display data, like emit, but i cant seem to do things that take input, like key 11:32:45 Laters, folks. I think it's time to chow. 11:32:55 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 11:32:59 <_ja> when i put 'key' into the openboot prom nvramrc, the machien is comatose on booting 11:33:09 <_ja> then i need to use stop-n to get factory resets 11:33:18 <_ja> why cant i put 'key' ibnto the openboot prom 11:38:22 Hey all. 11:38:40 Hey there! 11:39:21 Pardon the abrupt exit earlier. I had to relocate. 11:39:44 I did get your note, though. 11:40:08 Note? 11:40:28 Yeah. 11:40:43 What note? 11:40:51 http://pastebin.com/384028 11:40:55 Ah ok. 11:41:23 _ja: don't know. I thought you should be able to do that. 11:45:50 ah. Looks like the standard specifies that nvramrc gets executed before the console is brought up. 11:46:07 <_ja> just tried again right now: machine comes up with no text and a flashing monitor light 11:46:23 <_ja> just put the word 'key' into nvramrc and store and reboot and youll see what io mean 11:46:29 <_ja> dont do it on a prioduction machine tho :) 11:46:35 <_ja> and make sure to save tyour current eeprom settings 11:48:46 <_ja> you can type 'key' at the openboot ok prompt and it works as expected 11:48:54 <_ja> but adding it to nvram and booting is trouble 11:49:33 http://rafb.net/paste/results/nyGFyY88.html 11:49:50 you might try doing "probe-all install-console" before using key... 11:50:53 --- quit: aardvarx_ ("leaving") 11:51:36 <_ja> cool. thanks! 11:52:01 just a guess -- I don't really know that much about it... 11:52:24 --- join: aardvarx_ (n=folajimi@shell2.sea5.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 11:52:25 <_ja> i think you are right on target 11:52:32 cool. 11:53:15 I never know - this box is a Mac, and I've messed with OF on here a bit, but sparc's openboot seems to have significant differences. 11:55:40 tathi, is having a Mac a personal preference, or is it "all you've got?" 11:56:13 <_ja> cool that worked 11:56:17 It was a personal preference. 11:56:35 Now I've switched to Linux, so it doesn't matter *too* much what kind of box I have. 11:56:53 <_ja> thanks tathi! you rule 11:56:55 Though I do some assembly-language coding, and I much prefer PPC to x86... 11:57:03 _ja: glad I could help :) 11:57:49 <_ja> thats had me baffled for months 11:58:03 <_ja> and you solved it in a single thought 11:58:18 tathi, isn't it nice how Linux makes everything look similar? :) 11:58:29 I always like it when my habit of reading random specs pays off. :) 11:59:17 aardvarx_: actually, I'm more interested in how it lets me set up my system however I want... 12:00:25 How do you mean? 12:01:38 I like to be able to go in and fix little things (mostly user interface details) when they annoy me. 12:02:28 Any particular examples? 12:03:20 replacing bash with gforth as a shell 12:03:52 hmm...I added a couple of new key bindings to Dillo, removed the delay when displaying messages from Lynx... 12:04:25 Does switching glx interfaces count as well? 12:04:42 I think I hacked ion (window manager) a bit 12:04:54 glx? 12:05:09 hah! another one efficient window manager user... 12:05:22 glx, gl extension... 12:05:28 Yeah. 12:05:32 http://www.sgi.com/products/software/opensource/glx/ 12:05:45 I didn't realize it had different interfaces 12:06:05 pah, sgi is somehow dead. else I would get one of that nice boxes. 12:07:04 another randomly derogatory comment from virl...thank you very much... 12:07:21 :P 12:07:31 hey, is it dead or not? 12:08:10 who cares? doesn't mean you can't get one of their boxes and use it 12:08:59 tathi, are you okay? :P 12:09:00 yes, I can't get a _new_ one 12:11:00 I don't see why that's a problem 12:14:58 I guess my time is done for today. 12:15:28 Quartus, thanks for the information you provided; it is greatly appreciated. 12:15:31 ttyl then 12:15:39 tathi, thanks for your feedback as well. 12:15:45 TTFN. 12:15:54 --- quit: aardvarx_ ("leaving") 12:16:03 --- quit: aardvarx (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:20:31 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:53:06 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 14:53:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 14:58:11 The latest effort: http://pastebin.com/384437 15:38:41 I think I've factored that reasonably well. 15:40:46 Comments welcome. 15:46:11 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 15:46:21 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-55-17.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 15:46:54 --- quit: Raystm2 (Remote closed the connection) 15:47:56 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:50:02 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-55-17.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:13:04 Updated, small bug in ** and added an error-check in generate-all-greek-sequences. http://pastebin.com/384479 16:50:08 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:51:24 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 16:53:41 Quartus: what is that you are working on? 16:55:59 Something illustrative for aardvarx. 16:56:42 Oh of course. I recall. Something about a 3d array. 16:57:01 2D. I started out just showing one way to store a string array in Forth, but decided to finish the work. 16:57:13 I was too busy to follow the convo from work today. 16:57:24 I see. 16:57:47 While you were doing that, I was getting Bell Helicopter back into production. 16:58:02 They were out of production? 16:58:40 Yes, a major autoclave lost a caster, a very special caster. Sort of a one of a kind. 16:58:48 Yikes. 16:59:16 I was able to get them up in 3hours. I'm so darn proud of myself, I had to tell someone. 16:59:25 It's a thankless job... 16:59:25 Congratulations. 16:59:28 :) 17:03:16 An alternate method: http://pastebin.com/384506 17:03:40 Raystm2, On behalf of Bell Helicopter for whom I am not authorized to speak, thank you. :) 17:03:40 In fact it's been sort of an odd week. I had to tell an archtitech that his caster design for a fence gate wouldn't work, and I had to design a new dual wheel caster to hold 90000 lbs 17:03:46 hahahahaha 17:04:40 I used to drink in bars for that kind of brotherhood stuff. 17:05:21 Then I had kids, and if you don't want your kid to do something, don't do it yourself. 17:06:35 Probably wise. 17:16:52 And that returns us to 'Monkey see, monkey do. 17:17:38 That doco about the way that octopi learn, I think it's relevent to us as well. 17:19:32 I don't know what a doco is, and I think it's 'octopuses'. :) 17:19:52 not the way I eat them :) 17:20:06 Heh. 17:20:16