00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.09.25 00:36:25 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Slips out quietly.") 00:58:19 --- join: scope (n=junk@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 01:08:19 --- quit: scope ("Client exiting") 03:53:56 --- quit: aum () 04:55:33 --- join: saon_ (i=1000@c-24-129-89-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:56:08 --- quit: saon_ (Client Quit) 05:06:48 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 05:15:14 --- join: crc (i=crc@pool-70-110-186-200.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 06:36:25 --- join: Topaz (n=top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust128.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 06:38:52 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool67-166.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:39:17 G'day 07:08:10 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 07:09:31 --- join: saon (i=1000@c-24-129-89-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:40:31 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 08:40:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 08:40:48 howdy 08:41:03 Been beyond dead, so far 08:43:16 hi 08:43:25 weekend mornings... 08:43:46 yah. Busy solving homework in ##C, of course ;-) 08:45:06 what sort of homework? 08:45:50 Lord knows, poor kate is trying to save some guy.. I think he's a virgin writing the old "print a diamond with '*' in multiple loops" 09:01:25 oh (*&@#$(@*&#$ stupid ans 09:01:34 hehehe 09:01:44 is it ans or gfort? for/next does your loop x+1 times 09:02:01 Hmm. No idea - sounds more like ANS 09:02:24 eh...I thought you said this was in ##C ? 09:02:52 what? oh.. Yeah, the homework is. 09:03:16 In Gforth, this loop iterates n+1 times 09:03:51 oh. That's a gforth extension. 09:03:55 ANS doesn't have a for/next loop. 09:04:00 silly buggers... SOunds like they lay down actual do/loop guts 09:04:07 : sp 32 emit ; 09:04:07 : star 42 emit ; 09:04:07 : for postpone 1- postpone for ; immediate 09:04:07 : row 22 over - for sp next dup for star star next cr ; 09:04:07 : diamond cr 1 10 for row 2 + next 11 for row 2 - next drop ; 09:04:18 not that a good HALF the code is just implementing things that should be there already 09:04:42 yeah, row & diamond are the answer 09:05:40 JasonWoof: heh - I even hinted they use a stupid buffer, instead of trying to print each row 09:06:03 no need to buffer 09:06:18 well, then he could do one lousy loop and printf 09:06:20 just max-x spaces, and x*2 stars 09:06:45 anyway, the task is archaic and I think the kid is just a lost cause 09:06:49 : stars ( n -- ) 0 do 42 emit loop ; 09:07:17 yeah, I should have used stars 09:07:25 or maybe LATER 09:07:41 stars is fine, until a dolt-teacher sez "make them hollow" 09:07:43 well, if you're doing Standard Forth. 09:07:50 iirc crc was playing with a word called LATER 09:07:51 And seeing as SPACES is already a standard word. :) 09:07:56 anybody know how it works? 09:08:02 what is LATER? 09:08:11 make something execute later 09:08:19 I'm not sure the calling convention or exactly how it works 09:08:25 I don't remember quite understanding the functionality of LATER, let alone the implementation. 09:08:31 but it occurs to me that it'd be a cool trick to push something onto the return stack 09:08:34 (not that I tried very hard) 09:08:44 so it executes when the current word returns 09:08:53 : chars ( n -- ) 0 do over emit loop drop ; 09:09:14 PoppaVic: sorry, that name is taken 09:09:19 : chars ; 09:09:21 std def 09:09:28 JasonWoof: you mean a deliberate attempt to RETURN into another def? 09:09:44 yeah, ok - collision - feel free to rename it ;-) 09:10:05 and it should be dup, not over. 09:10:25 PoppaVic: yeah, I imagine it could be something like this: : later postpone ['] postpone >r ; 09:10:28 ahh, thanks - I forgot if there was a ctr on the dstack 09:10:42 no, rstack :) 09:10:46 ahhh 09:11:01 PoppaVic: also, you got the stack comment wrong... : emits ( c n -- ) emit c n times 09:11:09 it's at compile time that control-flow stuff usually goes on the dstack. 09:11:09 PoppaVic: also, you got the stack comment wrong... : emits ( c n -- emit c n times ) 09:11:43 hmm... /me looks around for that snippet of code with LATER. 09:11:54 Btw... Looking over the the gforth "locals" - seems fairly interesting, if confusing. Also, added some func-vecs to the the glue-struct. 09:12:21 I was thinking it'd be fun for diamond, but then I realized that I wanted to put it in a loop, and I'd have to sneak the stuff under the count on the rstack 09:12:22 JasonWoof: yeah, I see that - mea culpa. Trying to code, comment and watch the news ;-/ 09:13:13 imo locals allow you to do stuff easier... that you shouldn't be doing at all 09:13:36 I think they may be a partial-solution to a generic-problem. 09:16:33 Jason, I do that 'pushing the address of another word' trick to implement a tiny version of locals. 09:17:35 One of the few times I accept locals usage as necessary is when interfacing to a clumsy API, like Windows or Palm OS. 09:17:42 Ot osm 09:17:44 oops 09:18:02 It isn't necessary even then, but it makes it a lot easier when you're dealing with an API call that has, say, 13 parameters. 09:18:29 yup. 09:18:56 Not exactly sure HOW to clean it all up, but they sure remind me of stackframes and alloca/locals 09:19:17 I can see that it might be nice even for dealing with mmap, which only has 6 parameters. 09:19:43 It's that, or private globals. 09:20:14 yeah, and I'm still a mmap-virgin ;-) 09:22:20 yeah 09:22:30 in that case it's not bad design on your part. 09:22:33 it's the way the api is 09:23:30 I haven't needed it for apis, because in the two cases I can think of (OpenFirmware and linux syscalls) I compiled the operands into memory 09:23:34 and could do that in any order 09:23:34 I'm beginning to think we could exploit a frame/struct/something stack. Like for locals. 09:24:28 (for OpenFirmware it was a memory struct, for linux syscalls I was compiling asm to pop the stack into registers, and I could of course fill the registers in whatever order) 09:25:13 I'm not entirely sure what I mean to describe. But, it seems to be mostly in terms of "source & sink" and locals" - shit we never want really embedded, but come to life and disappear. 09:39:11 hmm 09:41:11 Assuming the stacks-comments are valid... This seems to suggest a "stackframe" and you cannot ever consume more than specified, nor push more than specified. 09:41:39 I still think this sounds like "locals" 10:26:22 --- quit: PoppaVic (Nick collision from services.) 10:26:35 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool74-122.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 11:18:08 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 11:30:07 --- quit: warpzero (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:30:08 --- quit: skylan (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:30:08 --- quit: tathi (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:30:08 --- quit: virl (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:30:08 --- quit: madgarden (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:30:08 --- quit: Raystm2 (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:30:08 --- quit: onetom (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:33:24 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 11:33:24 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 11:33:24 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3577624.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 11:33:24 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@ppp-70-248-35-119.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 11:33:24 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 11:33:24 --- join: skylan (n=sjh@dialup-216-211-47-87.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 11:33:24 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 11:33:28 --- quit: warpzero (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:33:28 --- quit: skylan (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:33:30 --- quit: tathi (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:33:32 --- quit: onetom (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:33:32 --- quit: Raystm2 (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:33:32 --- quit: virl (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:33:32 --- quit: madgarden (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:33:53 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 11:33:53 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 11:33:53 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3577624.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 11:33:53 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@ppp-70-248-35-119.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 11:33:53 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 11:33:53 --- join: skylan (n=sjh@dialup-216-211-47-87.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 11:33:53 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 13:51:47 --- quit: crc () 13:52:37 --- join: crc (i=crc@pool-70-110-186-200.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 13:52:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 14:11:46 --- join: crcx (i=crc@bespin.org) joined #forth 14:15:53 --- quit: crcx (Remote closed the connection) 14:40:27 --- join: TheBlueWizard (i=TheBlueW@ts001d0089.wdc-dc.xod.concentric.net) joined #forth 14:47:40 --- join: crcx (i=crc@bespin.org) joined #forth 15:00:25 --- quit: crcx (Excess Flood) 15:47:05 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 15:55:21 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 16:01:34 --- join: rrDog (n=stevia@67-136-98-247.dsl2.kgm.az.frontiernet.net) joined #forth 16:02:18 --- part: rrDog left #forth 16:40:50 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 16:50:51 Hey all. 16:50:56 hi Quartus 16:51:05 What's new? 16:51:26 writing irc and mud clients in forth 16:51:33 How's that going? 16:51:44 the irc client is mostly working 16:51:59 I just got started on the mud server late yesterday 16:52:03 err, mud client 16:52:08 Fun. Which Forth? 16:52:14 RetroForth 16:52:31 I should have guessed that one. :) 16:52:36 :) 17:03:57 * crc doesn't know how to do syscalls in gforth, or he'd try to port this to gforth for comparison purposes 17:04:38 hi Quartus :) 17:05:04 Hi Raystm2. 17:05:57 Quartus are you taking credit cards online? 17:06:01 Yes. 17:06:15 Not directly; I use a service. 17:06:38 your company treating your good, ( i'm not selling i'm looking for a recommendation) 17:07:15 RegSoft. Never had a minute of trouble. 17:07:22 excellent 17:07:33 are they expensive to start? 17:07:47 I don't remember it costing a cent back when I did it. 17:07:57 I see, also excellent. 17:08:01 They take about 8.9% on, (don't quote me) amounts over $30. 17:08:10 Some fixed amount -- $3? On amounts lower. 17:08:16 I see. 17:08:21 not bad really. 17:08:26 Believe me, it's reasonable. 17:08:32 sure. 17:08:45 thanks! :) 17:09:03 Sure. 17:09:37 Even for tax purposes alone, every American family should have some kind of online business. 17:09:50 Applies to Canadians, too. 17:10:01 YES! :) 17:11:04 I have 4 planned, And have begun implementing the first one, tho it's not currently online. Bought the domains tho. 17:11:15 Good start. 17:11:48 brb 1 hour dinner :) 17:11:57 sounds like RegSoft might be just for software licenses though. 17:12:07 I don't know if they do anything but software. 17:12:52 Everything is worded like they assume that's it, but I don't see anything explicitly saying whether that's all they do. 17:13:50 Quartus only sells intangibles. 17:14:27 Right. I think Ray is talking about selling some of each though. 17:15:12 You can get a merchant account one way or another, but the rates always looked high to me, and you can wind up having to deal with chargebacks yourself. 17:15:13 Etc. 17:15:39 yeah, seems to be hard to find a good provider. 17:24:41 It is. 17:35:42 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@CPE0000e812679b-CM000a7362da55.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:37:04 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 17:56:38 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 20:08:49 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:09:14 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-128-121.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:21:17 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:25:03 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Whoopsies!") 21:05:52 basic ChuckBot the Glyph complete. 21:05:59 yippie! 21:10:36 So what now? 21:46:48 now the trainging environment layer. 21:47:08 yikes training 21:47:22 time to work out timed exectution... 21:48:01 * Raystm2 currently struggling with a mysterious bug that just reared it's head and wasn't there before. 21:50:15 I can't seem to enter the last street with out crash which tells me my forward command, or something dependant by it ( like the offset into the beeper array) may be to blame. 21:50:15 If it works with out the beeper array I may have my solution. 21:51:37 looks like when I cross into the 12th street I dump core. 21:51:51 and this was with out beepers. 21:52:49 but if i'm in the 12th street to start, I can be blocked by the boarder, np. like intended. 21:53:02 just when crosing the 11-12 street boundry. 21:53:22 hmm... a nice nasty problem to sleep over I guess. 22:02:54 Good luck. 22:42:43 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 23:02:55 --- quit: aum () 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.09.25