00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.09.24 00:01:26 --- quit: aum () 00:19:30 --- quit: LOOP-HOG ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.1/20040707]") 00:54:14 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 05:43:20 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool73-2.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:57:34 --- join: Robert (n=robert@unaffiliated/robert) joined #forth 05:57:56 Any idea how to disable line buffering in the Linux console? 05:58:08 I could assume that some people in here have done that... 06:22:10 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 06:22:25 Hi. 06:24:00 Hi Robert 06:24:38 * tathi goes to check his notes about the Linux console... 06:25:44 OK, you want tcsetattr 06:25:48 the ICANON flag 06:27:07 in the ##C wiki, under snippets, I posted an entire routine to switch it back and forth.. 06:27:20 oh, ok. 06:27:50 http://www.iso-9899.info 06:28:08 lemme find the url 06:28:46 http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Snippet_POSIX_STDIN_mode 06:28:48 Oh, thanks. 06:29:15 I actually found that in the man pages, tathi, but I thought it said that ICANON _enables_ line buffering. 06:29:25 Robert: right. so you need to CLEAR it. 06:29:36 yeah, and can reset it later 06:30:21 that snippet, btw, is basically some extracted and flogged curses-code 06:30:24 Ah. 06:31:08 I didn't make the connection between not enabling it and disabling it. 06:31:15 terminfo.c_lflag &= ~ICANON; // something like that. 06:31:33 * Robert purrs at the sight of C bit magic. 06:31:53 Yah.. At the time, I was really, really happy to find that "trick" 06:32:08 I usually just call tcgetattr, make a copy (so I can restore it), modify one as above, and then tcsetattr to write it back. 06:32:39 Not a bad idea. 06:33:04 I always hated all the bit-flippin' voodoo 06:40:42 http://paste.lisp.org/display/11940 (minimal code in C) :) 06:41:05 Ah, thanks again. 06:43:09 tathi: I'm cogitating strings... And dictionary-heads. 06:43:30 ..Is there any reason for the _heads_ to use wchar_t? 06:44:19 I'm pretty sure that, in so doing, you may open a whole worm-can of whacky-characters as id's 06:45:39 iirc, wide-char utilities can sorta' "approximate" such a wide-string in another locale, but it seems really "iffy" to me. 07:00:43 hmm 07:17:44 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 07:18:54 --- quit: aum () 07:22:16 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 07:22:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 07:23:12 hi jas 07:24:37 Hi. 07:32:19 yeah. I was worried about that. 07:32:51 I agree, JasonWoof. And, particularly when they mess with locale 07:33:31 yeppers. Agreed. I'd go further and suggest simple that ASCII is *the* namespace, but that strings can be whatever. 07:34:08 personally, I hate the idea of having a text format where different characters can be different lengths 07:34:23 Prompts and messages/errors or whatever - or data - as unicodeish, this doesn't really bug me. 07:34:46 I know. I think that's why gcc uses a 32-bit value for wchar_t 07:34:52 I say on the rare occations where you need to use more than 256 different characters in your document, either split it up, or use two-byte characters 07:35:02 (two-byte characters for the whole thing) 07:35:57 I'm pretty sure though - it seems like actual "embedded strings" are fairly rare in Forth, mostly prompts and such. 07:36:36 btw. I think I had a brainfart about do/loop vars/cleanup... 07:37:30 Why not let the 'do' embed a pair of cells, that the 'loop' would know about? Keep it totally off the stacks? 07:38:50 I do think, however, we may well benefit from a "control-stack" unrelated to the RS 07:39:17 Internalized 07:42:46 Frankly, it seems to me that the guts can use several more stacks than you'd ever want to expose to folks programming in the language. 07:43:54 And, of course: cross-compiled/platform-imps could add more or use fewer - the key is to keepthem for "internal use" 07:58:04 --- join: Topaz (n=top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust128.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 07:58:20 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 07:58:21 I've never felt the need for a control stack 07:58:52 I know, and understand. I'm thinking of internalization-code and maybe into "interface" 07:58:55 I don't do any juggling for control constructs 07:59:21 I'm not sure how it would work, but it seems like it's possible it would simplify some issues. 08:00:03 Some of the issues are compiling, some are runtime. It gets freaky. 08:02:36 I suspect THESE issues are why we end up with stackframes, arguments, and single-returns. 08:03:27 ..or a lot of trust and gymnastics 08:04:31 I recall one day where someone mentioned "folks use locals because [they are lame]" - I think it's more/worse than that. 08:05:06 Now, of course, the proper semantics/rules/phrasing affects it all. 08:07:25 I'd also point out - after many hours or reading, glaring and testing - that the typical Forth makes this worse (better?) by allowing for definitions that can mode-switch on the fly. Powerful? Hell YES. Less easy to track? certainly. 08:08:57 I still think 80% of the issues are "during interpret/compile" and the other 20% is related to executing something regardless of mode. 08:09:59 It might be we are oversimplifying "state". Or, maybe overcomplicating it - I can't really tell. 08:29:34 --- join: Pyrce (i=Pyrce@ip-202-150-110-157.lns1.kol.co.nz) joined #forth 08:29:52 --- part: Pyrce left #forth 09:11:28 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (n=Miranda@clients.sonicduo.com) joined #forth 09:28:12 ISP should go nuts anytime now 09:30:38 Hi 09:30:59 lo 09:41:23 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:49:19 --- join: PoppaVic_ (n=pete@0-1pool46-172.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:50:52 --- quit: PoppaVic (Nick collision from services.) 09:50:55 --- nick: PoppaVic_ -> PoppaVic 11:09:26 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 11:28:36 --- quit: sproingie (Remote closed the connection) 11:30:39 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 12:21:33 Hey all. 12:21:44 Hi. 12:22:35 What's up? 12:23:00 hi Quartus 12:23:06 Hey. 12:37:37 --- join: lscd (n=lscd@adsl-213-180-182-5.cybernet.ch) joined #forth 12:42:48 --- quit: lscd ("Leaving") 12:43:45 --- join: Topaz (n=top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust128.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 13:17:59 --- quit: Robert ("leaving") 15:48:05 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 16:51:32 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 16:56:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 18:13:12 --- part: aum left #forth 18:22:31 --- quit: docl ("Leaving") 19:02:06 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@CPE0000e812679b-CM000a7362da55.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 19:20:16 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:53:37 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-3-10.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 19:53:49 --- quit: amca (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:07:24 --- join: snoopy_16 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-129-029.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:25:48 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20:25:52 --- nick: snoopy_16 -> Snoopy42 20:33:23 * JasonWoof action's himself to death 20:37:49 --- quit: neceve ("Leaving") 20:48:19 s/'// 21:30:22 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 21:34:06 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:47:54 --- quit: JasonWoof ("night all") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.09.24