00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.09.10
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00:51:05 <amca> Evening
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05:06:09 <PoppaVic> Howdy
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05:09:02 <h722> hi
05:09:50 <h722> anyone here?
05:09:56 <PoppaVic> yah
05:10:02 <h722> oh, hy PoppaVic
05:11:49 <h722> may I ask you "assistance" about English? :))))
05:11:58 <PoppaVic> huh?
05:12:05 <h722> i am italian :(
05:12:15 <PoppaVic> it's not your fault, really.
05:12:21 <h722> :P
05:13:05 <h722> I have 14 lines written in english
05:13:22 <PoppaVic> OK, but this is #forth
05:13:38 <h722> yeah
05:13:50 <h722> may you suggest
05:13:57 <h722> a chan where to ask ?
05:14:13 <PoppaVic> no idea. I have no idea what you want, either.
05:14:27 <h722> just a check of grammar :)
05:14:48 <h722> and thank you really much anyway
05:14:52 <PoppaVic> just show me a paste-shight url
05:15:00 <PoppaVic> sight (sheesh)
05:15:05 <h722> k
05:15:24 <h722> pvt or here?
05:15:35 <PoppaVic> here is fine, just a short url, no?
05:15:50 <h722> k i am going to put it in an url
05:20:54 <h722> i think i'm stupid :(
05:21:03 <h722> sorry for being late
05:21:35 <h722> http://www-dimat.unipv.it/~arico/acknowledgments.txt
05:22:13 <h722> it's because the advisor checked all the file, but not this page of course ;)
05:22:57 --- nick: h722 -> antaro
05:27:23 <PoppaVic> "I had been to Pav..."
05:27:44 <PoppaVic> I knew nothing about..."
05:27:55 <antaro> :)))))))))
05:27:58 <antaro> tnx
05:28:15 <PoppaVic> "years, during which..."
05:28:37 <PoppaVic> "of meeting"
05:28:51 <PoppaVic> "whom is also"
05:29:16 <PoppaVic> "one of the kindest men"
05:29:31 <PoppaVic> "helpful"
05:30:04 <PoppaVic> "special thanks" ... "been very friendly"
05:30:27 <PoppaVic> "who taught"
05:30:29 <antaro> fantastic
05:30:43 <antaro> that sounds really goot tnx tnx 
05:30:46 <PoppaVic> "useful" (again)
05:31:18 <PoppaVic> I think does it all, you will want to read it aloud to yourself after all the fixes.
05:32:45 <antaro> oh, yes
05:33:05 <antaro> maybe I should thank also you :)
05:33:16 <antaro> anyway, tnx really really much
05:33:26 <antaro> :))))))))))
05:34:00 <antaro> [and, if a math. can help you, you know where to find it also by mail :) ]
05:34:11 <PoppaVic> hmm?
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05:34:25 <PoppaVic> good luck.
05:34:30 <antaro> tnx 
06:04:44 <PoppaVic> hmph hmph... relative-addresses...
06:10:58 <PoppaVic> I hate those "blast from the dark" wild-thoughts that snap in on yah.
06:16:47 <PoppaVic> I've just managed to envision an 'issue' early-on and I'm trying to resolve its "headspace". There are an awful lot of absolute-address ops/use, aren't there?
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06:21:23 <PoppaVic> hi tathi
06:21:23 <PoppaVic> I just started a new line of query above
06:24:24 <PoppaVic> hmm.. Lotsa' lag
06:26:06 <PoppaVic> tathi: here's my brainfart... We sure seem to suffer an awful lot of absolute-address memory access. Seems like it's damn near fundamental.
06:28:21 <PoppaVic> I don't really mind working from absolutes on stacks. But, it seems more than likely they'd tend to get embedded as well.
06:29:35 <PoppaVic> This seems to sorta' suggest that the decompiler/cross-compiler ideas would become a typical bitch.
06:31:45 <PoppaVic> Unless the silly things would require a sourcefile, instead of use images? Hell, even saving/loadingimages suffers if we have absolute-addresses.
06:32:29 <PoppaVic> hmm
06:37:05 <tathi> yup.
06:37:43 <PoppaVic> Can you see a rel-addr alternative to the mess? I'm tinkering with a few theories, but so far to no conclusion.
06:39:27 <PoppaVic> oh.. heh.. hmmm... maybe.....
06:39:56 <tathi> not really...
06:40:12 <tathi> I'm just using all addresses as offsets from the base of the memory.
06:40:54 <tathi> i.e. all addresses are relative to the start of the image.
06:41:05 <tathi> or can think of it as absolute addresses starting at 0.
06:41:06 <PoppaVic> yeah.
06:41:18 <PoppaVic> I was thinking of that, or a ptr-stack
06:41:54 <PoppaVic> ..now.. What happens when we interface with malloc/free? use our own code and form a LL, is my guess.
06:42:02 <tathi> of course, if you're planning on dealing with addresses outside of your image block, what I'm doing won't work.
06:42:10 <PoppaVic> assuredly
06:42:47 <PoppaVic> it also can bollix if we save an image with certain size-expectations and load that image into a new, increased space
06:43:16 <tathi> how so?
06:43:31 <tathi> I can see you would have problems if you decreased the space, but problems on increasing?
06:43:59 <PoppaVic> I'm thinking of image[....PLUS stackspaces/uservar] - I think it COULD get stupid fast
06:44:26 <tathi> ah.
06:44:37 <PoppaVic> unless.. hmm..
06:44:44 <tathi> yeah, I wasn't planning on allowing access into the stackspaces by address.
06:45:00 <tathi> Mine was somewhat planned to help migration to custom hardware at some point.
06:45:15 <PoppaVic> well, you can't hardly stop them when they have keywords to help them, of course
06:46:18 <PoppaVic> ok, let's make an assumption of thus: UP0[........]Image[........] { stacks }
06:46:56 <PoppaVic> if they tick or do assorted tick @, and then embed it. Are they not gonna' skullfuck us?
06:48:39 <PoppaVic> I can already see that the best way to handle uvar is to return an offset, and embed literal-handlers and offsets. But, forth allows so much up/down language-scale capability, it might all be moot.
06:49:27 <PoppaVic> given ticks/fetches and such and , - they can quickly ruin the day
06:50:33 <PoppaVic> unless we can voodoo between "compiling" and "interpreting" or some other freaky mix
06:51:11 <PoppaVic> I'm tempted to suggest a pointer-stack
06:52:26 <PoppaVic> and, given THAT, I recall some discussions I had before of a stack paralleling the data-stack which just marked things as values/pointers.
06:52:39 <PoppaVic> or "handler stack"
06:53:32 <PoppaVic> interestingly, I think that "handler-stack" is only of interest to the interpreter/compiling-words
07:07:12 <PoppaVic> ANyway, thought I'd share the issue/ideas and see what it lead to.
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07:49:42 <antaro> byez
07:49:52 <antaro> and thank you :)))
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07:57:47 <PoppaVic> humph-humph.. *sigh* I think I'm seeing new patterns.
08:37:14 <PoppaVic> brb
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08:41:36 <PoppaVic> damned isp
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09:10:52 <thinfu> moo
09:11:36 <PoppaVic> gah
09:16:02 <tathi> moo, yourself :)
09:19:35 <PoppaVic> gad this is a sucky slut
09:27:07 <PoppaVic> Failed to open /DEV/Metabuilder/fovm/structs/h for reading: No such file or directory
09:27:20 <PoppaVic> http://rafb.net/paste/results/LxjiZD43.html
09:27:36 <PoppaVic> damnnit... Look at eof and ihead, tathi 
09:28:27 <PoppaVic> I've decided to examine top-down and bottom-up and see if I can reconcile addresses/sizes
09:31:59 <PoppaVic> To be honest.. I'm not sure how a mmap compares to malloc, but I'm willing to CONSIDER differences.
09:44:22 * PoppaVic sighs
09:44:33 <PoppaVic> good day to y'all
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10:26:23 <crc> hi everyone
10:27:54 <PoppaVic> lo, crc
10:28:39 <PoppaVic> if you can tail back, I wish you would: I'm about ready for a nap
10:29:07 <crc> ok, I'll be here for several hours at least :)
10:29:19 * crc reads the backlog now...
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10:41:30 <PoppaVic> crc: anyway, I'm tuckered.. The issues are as obtuse in ##C and #forth lately - and forget #asm. <shrug> I'll talk to you tomorrow. I've gotten too tired and lost interest today.
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14:28:43 <Quartus> Hey, JasonWoof.
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15:31:57 <JasonWoof> hi Quartus :)
15:32:33 <JasonWoof> just moved a bunch of stuff around in the garage to make more room for bikes
15:32:53 <JasonWoof> now hopefully I won't have to park people in so much
15:47:10 <Quartus> Good deal.
15:47:53 <JasonWoof> ahhh
15:47:55 <JasonWoof> then a shower
15:48:27 <JasonWoof> hmmm
15:48:38 <JasonWoof> there's game night at the comic shop in 25 minutes
15:49:23 <JasonWoof> oh, the other good news ;)
15:49:31 <JasonWoof> I made $8.75 at our tag sale today
15:49:53 <JasonWoof> and I got rid of a bunch of stuff :)
15:52:56 <slava> i got the raytracer to run in 30 seconds, -vs- 40 yesterday
15:56:16 <JasonWoof> cool
15:56:34 <JasonWoof> you improving your raytracing code? or factor?
15:56:44 <JasonWoof> can I see the image it generates?
15:57:14 <slava> i'm improving the factor compiler
15:57:27 <slava> the algorithm is quite naive
15:57:28 <slava> http://factor.sourceforge.net/raytracer.png
15:57:48 <JasonWoof> cool
15:58:44 <slava> it runs 12.5 times slower than the C++ version on my computer
15:59:17 <JasonWoof> not too bad
15:59:20 <slava> the java version is about 3 times faster than the C++, surprisingly enough
15:59:26 <slava> even though they both use the same algorithm
15:59:31 <JasonWoof> very weird
15:59:37 <slava> g++ sucks i guess
15:59:45 <slava> i'm compiling with -O3 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer
15:59:50 <JasonWoof> you passing the optomizing fl
15:59:52 <JasonWoof> wow
15:59:55 <JasonWoof> that's really strange
15:59:56 <slava> and java with -server -Xbatch
16:00:17 <JasonWoof> does it do a function call each iteration?
16:00:25 <slava> it does tons of function calls on each iteration
16:00:32 <JasonWoof> oh sorry
16:00:34 <slava> it uses objects to represent 3-vectors
16:00:36 <JasonWoof> I'm thinking mandelbrot
16:01:16 <JasonWoof> function call overhead is considerable in C
16:02:38 <JasonWoof> you generating machine code in factor?
16:02:46 <slava> yes
16:05:06 <slava> i need to make better use of registers, and infer more types
16:05:35 <JasonWoof> I wonder what sort of overhead fovium has
16:05:57 <JasonWoof> maybe I'll code that rediculous recursive fibinocci
16:06:59 <slava> factor does recursive fib several times faster than gforth
16:11:51 <JasonWoof> cool
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16:35:09 <JasonWoof> hmm... that took a while
16:35:54 <JasonWoof> I got ?if wrong, and < was buggy in the vm implementation
16:36:50 <JasonWoof> hmm... maybe if I go downstairs there will be food
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.09.10