00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.08.29 00:00:59 --- quit: cmeme (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:01:42 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 00:02:55 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 00:03:38 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 00:04:51 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 00:05:34 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 00:06:48 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 00:07:30 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 00:08:44 --- quit: cmeme (Connection reset by peer) 00:09:27 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 00:19:33 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-143.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 00:20:54 Gday 00:28:18 Is there a convention for what word to execute in a forth program/system by default? Like in C it is 'main' (although this is actually a part of the C lang, not a convention). 00:29:39 --- quit: cmeme (Success) 00:41:27 hi amca :) 00:42:02 Gday Ray 00:42:06 in colorforth the convention seems to be, load a block and execute `ok' which is usually the display loop. 00:42:08 Is your first name ray? 00:42:12 si is 00:42:58 AQh 00:42:59 Ah 00:43:17 In Quartus is seems to be to execute the word "go" 00:43:32 So, so far it doesnt look like there is a convention 00:43:40 * Raystm2 wondering should I teach ChuckBot Trachtenberg math 00:43:51 well, maybe with in a sublang 00:43:54 What is Trachtenberg math? 00:44:31 LinkFind executed, please be patient as we find your information. 00:44:44 Well I thought that even if it wasnt in the ANS standard, there might be a defacto convention 00:44:47 hehe 00:45:46 Jakow Trachtenberg system? 00:45:57 si is 00:46:25 "si is"? Is that a mix of spanish and english? 00:46:35 yes es 00:46:39 lol 00:46:48 so desu 00:46:55 hehe 00:47:27 Japanese for "I see". I like to watch anime ^_^ 00:47:38 hehe 00:47:46 Ive found the Trachtenberg wikipedia article 00:48:05 I'm up waaaayyyy past my bed time :) 00:48:15 oooh cool need to read that ;) 00:48:23 didnt even think of it. 00:48:40 hehe 00:48:48 3am there? 00:48:52 Where is the wife? 00:49:12 she was `off' today 00:49:30 monthly off? 00:49:39 hahahaha 00:49:43 off work 00:49:48 ah 00:49:57 heh 00:50:07 What work does she do? 00:50:18 she manages fast food 00:50:26 Mmmm....junk food 00:50:31 yep :) 00:50:40 actually pretty good fast food. 00:50:52 You have Jack-in-the-Box there? 00:51:02 Dont think so 00:51:26 We have Subway, Red Rooter, Maccas, KFC, Hungry Jacks 00:51:35 Brodie's 00:51:48 Cant think of any more 00:51:52 hehe 00:51:58 don't get me started. 00:52:27 Oh? 00:52:33 You can list heaps? 00:52:42 I eat at heaps 00:52:52 hehe 00:52:59 So you betray your wife! :P 00:53:07 how? 00:53:18 by eating out? 00:53:31 Isn't that the American way? 00:53:43 I dont know. Im not American 00:53:57 hehe 00:53:58 For all I know if you are American, you only ever eat at Maccas 00:54:02 :) 00:54:28 I don't recall ever eating at Maccas, what's the `style'? 00:54:48 oh MickyD's 00:54:51 Maccas = MacDonalds 00:55:02 ya same thing 00:55:08 Must be just an Aussie thing 00:55:13 rigth 00:55:43 although I would probably hit an Aussie if he said "MickyD's". That sounds so unAustralian...so...American....no offense. 00:56:08 sure, I get that. 00:57:00 But if an Aussie friend of mine said I'm taking you to Maccas, and we pulled into MickyD's I'd jump from the moving car :) 00:57:00 Then again Im an anti-imperialist. If Australia was the leading nation in the world, Id probably prefer Americanisms. 00:57:12 lol 00:57:17 You dont like Maccas? 00:57:34 Well, you can eat so much of a `good thing'. 00:57:43 ah 00:57:47 Does your wife work there? 00:58:13 we get so much of it as children that there is a mental stigma about turning down the driver thru lane. 00:58:26 no she works at Jack-in-the-Box. 00:58:34 Sorry - forgot 00:58:39 What is Jack in The box? 00:59:00 Ive eaten so much maccas it tastes bland now, so I tend to prefer Hungry Jacks (Burger King to you) for mainstream commercial junk food 00:59:15 local tv only ever directs 90% of Maccas commercials to Black Clients... 00:59:41 Ya Buggar queen is okay. 00:59:46 hehe 00:59:58 lol : Ive eaten so much maccas it tastes bland now, so I tend to prefer Hungry Jacks (Burger King to you) 01:00:07 whoops - wrong paste 01:00:18 try this time - lol : 2. Forth does indeed make "the best out of a slow microprocessor with 01:00:19 little RAM." Such processors are more common than PCs -- they're called 01:00:19 embedded systems. It will be a long time before your car's fuel- 01:00:19 injection system has 16 MB and a 1.25 GB hard disk. (And most embedded 01:00:19 processors are NOT supported by Borland C++.) 01:00:29 :/ I should have nopasted it 01:01:05 hehe 01:01:50 " (I could relate a horror story I heard about an engine control system written in C++.)" 01:01:57 From Forth FAQ 01:02:27 yikes 01:02:27 oops 01:02:27 From why-forth 01:02:33 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/why-forth 01:02:51 what? 01:02:57 The c++ ? 01:03:18 hehe and engine control system in c++ 01:03:49 It's kinda funny. You dont "program /in/ Forth" it is more you "program Forth" itself 01:03:59 ya 01:04:16 Like C++ operator overloading on steroids 01:04:19 your building and adding on to the compiler or interpreter. 01:04:39 * amca nods 01:04:42 exactly 01:05:01 your words become the language of the problem. 01:05:23 It is like programming in Forth is like building with lego, and programming in, say, Java is like painting the lego a different colour 01:08:03 So I take it you have been coding Chuckbot? 01:12:36 lazily 01:12:45 I'm sleepy and watching Hamlet 01:13:28 so desu 01:14:28 Thought about going to bed? :P 01:15:04 :) 01:16:40 "Of course we are all cogs in some kind of machine, but I would rather be a cog in a sleek fast moving machine, rather than a big slow plodding dictatorial machine." 01:17:26 "Forth makes me efficient because it works the way I think, backwards." 02:05:28 --- quit: amca ("d34d") 02:05:49 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-143.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 02:27:47 --- quit: YoyoFreeBSD_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:36:56 --- quit: amca (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:37:42 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 03:38:01 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 03:38:43 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 03:39:57 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 03:40:40 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 03:46:44 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-6.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 03:47:29 You asleep yet Ray? 03:51:18 Anyone else here awake? 03:55:50 i am 03:55:58 btw, i wouldn't translate "so desu" to "i see" 03:56:16 hehe. Good memory. 03:56:30 How would you translate it? "That's so"? 03:56:32 it's more of a "that's so"; in some contexts, "i see/i agree" would be ok 03:56:41 * amca nods 03:56:43 it's a more general concept/term than "i see", i'd say 03:56:49 [caveat: my japanese sucks ;)] 03:57:25 As you can see, mine sux worse. :) But Japanese use it in situations we would normally say "I see". Well from the limited anime I have seen anyway 03:57:49 mm, well, it'd be conventional to say something like "the weather's nice" "so desu" 03:58:00 in which case it's basically a vague polite agreement 03:58:04 does "lscd" have anything to do with two particular unix commands? 03:58:05 but "i see" doesn't make much sense 03:58:08 yep 03:58:12 OK 03:58:13 --- quit: cmeme (Connection timed out) 03:58:15 i was feeling uncreative last time i needed a nickname 03:58:18 Thanks for the clarification 03:58:21 np 03:58:22 hehe 03:58:56 my initials are registered to someone else, and i get too many weird comments when i use my real name 03:59:01 so, unix it was ;) 03:59:03 Oh? 03:59:30 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:00:43 --- quit: cmeme (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:01:26 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:02:40 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:03:23 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:04:36 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:05:18 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:06:32 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:06:58 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:07:14 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:08:28 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:09:11 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:10:24 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:11:07 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:12:20 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:13:03 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:14:17 --- quit: cmeme (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:14:59 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:16:13 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:16:55 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:18:09 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:18:51 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:20:05 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:20:48 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:22:01 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:22:44 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:23:57 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:24:40 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:25:54 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:26:36 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:27:50 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:28:33 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:29:46 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:30:29 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:31:42 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:32:10 --- quit: amca (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:12 --- quit: virsys (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:12 --- quit: saon (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:13 --- quit: lscd (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:13 --- quit: skylan (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:13 --- quit: docl (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:13 --- quit: Raystm2 (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:13 --- quit: warpzero (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:14 --- quit: Jim7J1AJH (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:14 --- quit: madgarden (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:14 --- quit: ccfg (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:32:32 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-6.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 04:33:28 --- log: started forth/05.08.29 04:33:28 --- join: clog (i=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 04:33:28 --- topic: 'Forth: One language, many dialects. #forth - general forth discussion. #c4th - ColorForth. #retro - RetroForth. #c4th-ot - social channel. #1xforth - a secret channel for 1xforthers. #concatenative - the category of language that forth belongs to (sorta).' 04:33:28 --- topic: set by crc on [Sat Jul 23 13:29:38 2005] 04:33:28 --- names: list (clog amca Snoopy42 virsys lscd skylan tathi_ ayrnieu) 04:33:29 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 04:33:57 --- join: docl (n=docl@67-138-198-36.bras01.mcl.id.frontiernet.net) joined #forth 04:34:05 --- join: ianp (n=ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 04:34:06 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 04:34:30 --- join: crc (i=crc@pool-70-110-194-247.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 04:35:57 --- nick: tathi_ -> tathi 04:36:36 --- quit: tathi (Client Quit) 04:37:18 --- join: ccfg (i=ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 04:37:37 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (n=jim@221x115x224x2.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) joined #forth 04:37:45 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 04:38:16 --- join: saon (i=1000@c-66-177-224-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:38:28 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 04:39:25 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:40:37 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:41:20 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:42:34 --- quit: cmeme (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:43:16 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:44:30 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:45:13 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:46:26 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:47:09 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:48:22 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:49:05 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:50:18 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 04:58:09 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 05:03:41 --- quit: amca (Excess Flood) 05:03:58 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-6.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 05:28:03 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 05:29:22 nanstm: lol 05:37:21 --- quit: ayrnieu (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:39:19 Forth runs games! 05:39:20 A mobile phone manufacturer is introduced a new games engine derived from the SENDIT project. This uses a Forth-based virtual machine to reduce the size of games in the phone, and to permit more functionality to be provided in the phone without increasing memory size. 06:07:12 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 06:07:28 Hello 06:09:24 Quartus: I notice that Quartus Forth uses "go" as the default word to execute. How did you decide on that word? Do you know of a convention for what word to automatically execute in a Forth enviroment? 06:10:17 It doesn't actually use 'go' as a default word. You can use whatever word you want to pass to MakePRC. I use 'go' as a matter of convention, it's short and it means 'go'. :) 06:10:35 :) 06:10:47 MakePRC takes an xt, as in: ' go (id) abcd MakePRC MyApp! 06:11:06 --- quit: tathi (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:06 --- quit: virsys (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:07 --- quit: amca (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:08 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:14 --- quit: nanstm (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:14 --- quit: OrngeTide (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:14 --- quit: ianp (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:14 --- quit: Quartus (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:14 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:16 --- quit: onetom (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:16 --- quit: Jim7J1AJH (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:11:16 --- quit: crc (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:12:33 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 06:12:33 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-6.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 06:12:33 --- join: ccfg (i=ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 06:12:33 --- join: nanstm (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:12:33 --- join: ianp (n=ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 06:12:33 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 06:12:33 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-129-157.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 06:12:40 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (n=jim@221x115x224x2.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) joined #forth 06:12:40 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 06:12:40 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 06:12:40 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-182-104.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 06:12:41 --- join: crc (i=crc@pool-70-110-194-247.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 06:12:45 I would expect instead some way to set one. 06:13:10 Damn. So it looks like it is totally implementation independant 06:13:15 --- quit: Jim7J1AJH (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: crc (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: tathi (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: virsys (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: onetom (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: amca (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: nanstm (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: OrngeTide (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: Quartus (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:43 --- quit: ianp (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:13:59 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-129-157.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 06:13:59 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 06:13:59 --- join: ianp (n=ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 06:13:59 --- join: nanstm (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:13:59 --- join: ccfg (i=ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 06:13:59 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-6.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 06:13:59 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 06:14:09 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (n=jim@221x115x224x2.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) joined #forth 06:14:10 --- join: crc (i=crc@pool-70-110-194-247.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 06:15:05 amca, why 'damn'? It's a trivial item. 06:15:15 --- quit: amca (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:15:16 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:15:16 --- quit: OrngeTide (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:15:16 --- quit: nanstm (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:15:16 --- quit: Quartus (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:15:16 --- quit: ianp (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:15:18 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:17:23 --- join: madwork (n=madgarde@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:17:23 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 06:17:23 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 06:17:23 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-182-104.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 06:17:26 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 06:17:40 --- join: ccfg (i=ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 06:17:40 --- join: nanstm (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:17:40 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 06:17:44 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-6.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 06:17:56 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-129-157.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 06:18:01 amca, why 'damn'? It's a trivial point. 06:18:09 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:18:09 --- quit: amca (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:18:09 --- quit: OrngeTide (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:18:13 --- quit: nanstm (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:18:13 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:20:33 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-129-157.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 06:20:36 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-6.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 06:20:40 Quartus: Consistancy I suppose. 06:22:13 Not all Forths are turnkey at any rate. 06:22:13 --- join: ianp (n=ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 06:22:19 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool238-144.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:22:40 * amca nods. But most langs are arent they? 06:22:46 Howdy. 06:23:05 (are turnkey) 06:23:23 What I been missin'? 06:23:48 Asking about conventions of starting Forth programs 06:23:58 "starting"? 06:24:07 cold/warm? 06:24:42 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 06:24:47 or are you thinking of something comparable to 'main()'? 06:25:02 Well if you run a compiled forth, what is the word that the forth runs? It seems to be implementation defined. Yes comparable to main() 06:25:13 --- join: ccfg (n=ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 06:25:28 for the system to init itself, it runs 'cold' 06:25:43 for a program, you just execute a word. 06:26:06 But how does the system know which word to run? 06:26:08 for a turnkey, you might need a ref to something in the image. 06:26:20 Could you please explain hot and cold for me please? 06:26:32 amca: the 2ndcase would just be the whole system plus all the new code 06:26:40 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 06:26:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 06:26:57 see cold 06:26:57 : cold 06:26:57 rp@ backtrace-rp0 ! pathstring 2@ fpath only-path init-included-files 'cold 06:26:57 init8 chainperform loadfilename# off process-args loadline off bootmessage 06:26:57 quit ; ok 06:27:22 amca: it will depend 100% on the forth you are using 06:27:29 the above is from gforth 06:27:29 And in English that is? :) 06:27:53 PoppaVic: That is what I was wondering. That is unusual amongst languages 06:27:56 amca: yer looking for a single, sweeping answer - there is no such animal 06:28:41 You talking about sweeping answer for the hot//cold thing or the main() thing? 06:29:09 JasonWoof: gday 06:29:09 both. 06:29:14 hehe ok 06:29:25 You got any urls for the hot/cold thing? 06:29:40 look, almost all forths are going to have a cold/warm word/vector 06:29:57 so look up gforth docs etc? 06:29:59 turnkeying is another issue, and often a deferred word 06:30:13 amca: sure, or you'd read the docsfor whichever forth you use 06:30:18 hmm 06:30:28 Im trying a few out sorta at the moment 06:30:43 yes, everyone does - then they get confused ;-) 06:30:50 Like me :) 06:31:20 Forth is different from a good deal other langs in that there seems a wide difference in Forth word implementations 06:31:26 yeppers 06:31:29 hi amca :) 06:31:57 forth started grassroots, then got committeed, and has always had a prob deciding if it was a whole OS or a shell 06:32:08 Never seen 'hot', but 'cold' is common-usage. Quartus Forth has it too. It's the re-start word for the system. 06:32:32 I suppose that is due to the basic thing about forth being you dont "code /in/ forth" you "code the forth" itself 06:32:40 ah 06:32:41 Quartus: yeah, hot ishis own term - although, any forth with a turnkey-ability shouldhave a method to autostart the top-word 06:32:47 I don't agree with that -- I code in Forth. 06:33:10 PoppaVic, Quartus Forth's turnkey facility requires the selecting of the entry point. 06:33:27 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:33:31 sure, and setting some location that cold willexecute, I'd expect 06:33:33 Which is handy in case you don't want to start the top word, you don't have to move another word up, you just name the one you want. 06:33:36 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:33:48 Quartus: But by coding Forth you are changing the very definition of the language, not just manipulating parts of it 06:33:54 Well, no -- it's an extraction facility. Recursively generates a stand-alone app with no dictionary. 06:33:59 oh, I meant 'top' as in "the final, program-initiator" 06:34:07 Quartus: sweet 06:34:19 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Client Quit) 06:34:21 amca, I don't redefine CORE words. I add new ones, but I do that in any language. 06:34:57 amca: there are cases where you MIGHT change core-words, but more as Q sez 06:35:04 but you *can* redefine core words. It is like Forth has a supercharged operator overloading capacity 06:35:08 PoppaVic: re 'top', yes I know -- you might have more than one entry point, and by being able to select which one is the entry for a given turnkey generation provides additional facility. 06:35:20 I agree that more often than not you would not change core words 06:35:21 Q: yeppers 06:35:27 amca, you *can*, but you *could* do that in C with the macro preprocessor, which would be equally daft. 06:36:06 But that is a preprocessor, not C itself :P 06:36:22 Q: pause - you can't in C, because it isn't going to carry upwards sans 'hooks'. Remember some core-words are deferred and others you'd just rewrite. 06:36:39 PoppaVic, yes, but speaking conceptually you can approach the same level of confusion that way. 06:36:52 but Im arguing out of my depth here 06:36:54 hmm, oh - you mean syntax/semantic - yeah 06:37:29 There are a lot of 'sound bites' about Forth, amca, that don't hold all that much water when examined closely. 06:37:46 Well I came up with that sound bite myself :P 06:38:30 You may have come up with it again, but it's not new. Generally it says 'you don't program in Forth, you write an application-specific language and then program in that.' 06:38:45 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 06:38:48 * amca nods 06:38:56 Which is sort of true, but you're still writing in Forth, in and around your new words, and the new words are written entirely in Forth. 06:38:58 amca: on the whole, I've pretty well decided gforth is fairly usable, and something like pfe is a bit more odd, but also usable. So, pick something comfortable is all. 06:39:16 Another sound bite says that 'Forth is too simple a language to program in, so...' and then sound bite #1, above. 06:39:21 I disagree with that. 06:39:22 --- join: snowrichard (n=forth@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:39:26 Im tossing up between gforth and retroforth mainly at the moment 06:39:28 yeah, they say a lot about forth 06:39:42 * PoppaVic shrugs 06:39:59 A couple of days ago I read a huge argument between a couple of fellows about whether Forth had a syntax. 06:40:04 gforth has source I can mostly follow - and a metacompiler - and turnkey. 06:40:12 And if it had no syntax, then whether or not it was actually a programming language. 06:40:22 lol 06:40:27 I've heard it compared to a religion 06:40:27 Quartus: well, other than nouns, verbs and adjectives... 06:40:35 PoppaVic: What do you tend to use? 06:40:54 snowrichard, I've heard that kind of noise too. It's poppycock. 06:41:03 amca: I've got pfe and gforth and some other installed, but when I want a fast "need forth and a test" - I use gforth 06:41:12 * amca nods 06:41:46 How big and bulky would you say gforth is? 06:42:07 amca: I will NOT take a stance pointing at "The One True Forth", however 06:42:18 Gforth has all the bells and whistles. I like it for desktop use. I do wish the backtrace were optional when exceptions occur, six lines of text is a lot, but that's a minor nit. 06:42:28 gforth is middlin'. Nonissue when I have all these other programming tools around. 06:42:45 Well I dont think there is such a thing as the "one true forth" with the nature of forth as a lang 06:43:23 amca: alas', there should have been a decent core-def and conventions, but ANS is about as useful as ansi-C 06:43:27 PoppaVic: Can I ask what coding tools? 06:43:49 gcc, gforth, pfe, lexx, yacc, and all the other C-stuff I need, tried or consider. 06:44:12 What do I have here: Win32Forth, SwiftForth eval, gforth, and smal32. 06:44:24 smal32? 06:44:45 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 06:45:07 * amca googles 06:45:09 Russian. Generates stand-alone exes. Not particularly fast. 06:45:25 ah 06:46:20 amca: what experience do you have (in what)? Generally, you can tinker with tons of tools on modern drives and never reach 50% capacity 06:46:42 ..although, yeah - source can eat a LOT more space 06:46:44 There's a copy of spf kicking around too. Another Russian one. 06:47:08 Ive played with Pascal, smalltalk, java, python, a little c/c++ and some others 06:47:15 ok 06:47:16 amca, I used smal32 to write the FIPS140x implementation at http://quartus.net/files/Misc/. 06:47:17 Ive just started getting into forth 06:47:22 * amca looks 06:47:28 well, then yeah... forth can be entertaining and educational. 06:47:58 using gforth would also offer some really advanced gcc source, too 06:49:03 Yeah, Ive been thinking about looking at the source to gforth 06:49:20 if there were newer gforths, or something with better code-examples or docs - that I was aware of - I'd recommend those, but gforth sorta' lets you tinker and learn a pile 06:49:52 I think the retroforth thing is destined to also be educational. 06:50:13 I am trying (unsuccessfully) to get it native booting 06:50:28 "native booting" meaning? and where? 06:50:40 I don't know that the gforth sources were written with an eye toward being educational. There's lots of tricky stuff in there to work around oddities between gcc implementations on different platforms. 06:50:49 on a floppy, booting it 06:51:00 q: yeah, I know. And that itself is interesting 06:51:13 amca: why the hell on a floppy? 06:51:13 Interesting, but won't teach you much about Forth. 06:51:34 Cause that is what it gets dd'd to? 06:51:38 Q: disagree - it'sgot a decent amount of forth-source as well 06:51:42 Ass oposed to? 06:51:46 I'm learning some asm trying to understand it 06:52:01 PoppaVic, yes, the forth souce will help you learn about forth. The C source, not as much. 06:52:06 dude, just throw whatever on yer hdd - be done with it 06:52:18 Ah. But then it isnt an OS :) 06:52:31 Q: no, their gccsource is educational as far as all the tricks and ops they had to pull 06:52:41 amca: it isn't an os NOW 06:52:49 ? 06:52:58 Am I missing something then? 06:53:18 I thought it booted you into what you would get with bin/rf at the console 06:53:25 most forths are yearspast being an OS. However, they are never really sure - they have identity-issues ;-) 06:53:55 PoppaVic, you're arguing at cross-purposes. Yes, the C source is interesting and educational to see how they had to wrestle with GCC. But it won't teach you Forth. 06:54:08 amca, here's another one: ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Applications/ANS/maf1v02.zip 06:54:16 tnx 06:54:17 oh, sorry - I agree Q.. FIG source is more useful that way. 06:54:24 It's quite educational as regards the inner structure of Forth itself. 06:54:55 FIGforth, FPC and F83 were all really interesting sources. 06:55:13 Would the retro source be more useful to look at? 06:55:26 maybe, but it's a bad start 06:55:33 what is a good start? 06:55:45 retro forth is nice if you know asm 06:55:50 you can't really look into forth source without a good book/docs and working forth 06:55:52 which I don't :P 06:56:31 well the docs are slowly improving on retro 06:56:32 PoppaVic: go on 06:56:52 One hurdle that some junior implementors never clear is the proper implementation of DOES>, as illustrated by this: 06:56:54 { : WEIRD: CREATE DOES> 1 + DOES> 2 + ; -> } { WEIRD: W1 -> } { ' W1 >BODY -> HERE } { W1 -> HERE 1 + } { W1 -> HERE 2 + } 06:56:56 well, loeligers book is still a fine ref, as are Ting's F-PC manuals 06:57:20 Are they online at all? 06:57:21 Q: because a lot of systems run in differing ways. 06:57:29 amca: hell no, you buy them 06:57:43 Quartus: I have enough trouble presently knowing what DOES> does :) 06:57:49 * amca nods 06:57:56 Further, there is "Starting Forth" and "Thinking Forth", for learning how to think about and with forth. 06:57:56 But if they're Standard, they have to clear that hurdle. MAF as I posted above is useful in that regard, shows a baseline implementation, and it's written in Forth itself. 06:58:22 Ive got those two and am working through Starting Forth 06:58:27 Unfortunately Starting Forth is extremely dated. The update of Thinking Forth is quite good. 06:58:57 amca: those books will NOT explain "guts", though - for that you need Loeliger and Ting-type works 06:59:05 * amca nods 06:59:12 Ill have to look for them 06:59:29 check the forth website 07:00:41 again -- MAF is great for the conceptuals of Forth internals. Well commented. 07:00:57 "MAF"? 07:01:15 Quartus: Thats that url you gave me right? 07:01:21 oh, the url 07:02:23 I'm thinking the best strategy might be to learn some more asm before tackling the retroforth source 07:02:25 Right. 07:02:34 (or at the same time of course) 07:03:11 Well I know enough about x86 asm to know I prefer not to use it :) Iprobaly know enough of it to get a good idea of the retro code 07:03:31 yeah :) 07:03:31 amca: it can be worse, see ppc asm ;-/ 07:03:44 Actually PPC asm looks better to me :P 07:03:53 yucky-poo 07:04:06 * amca prefers risc over cisc 07:04:31 I'm not into Risks, although "Risk" can be entertaining ;-> 07:04:33 hmm well fewer instructions to memorize would be nice 07:04:51 docl: you like MISCs then? :) 07:04:52 pv: risc-averse? 07:05:10 what's the m stand for? 07:05:14 minimal? 07:05:22 yep 07:05:28 cool 07:05:45 are they any better performance-wise? 07:05:45 I saw a breif reference to it when reading about stack computers I think 07:05:54 dont know much about them 07:05:59 docl: I'm just too goddamned old to read asm anymore. I can suffer forth and C, and maybe some C++, pascal, etc - but damn. 07:06:07 heard of oisc? 07:06:07 hehe 07:06:15 nope 07:06:20 optimized? 07:07:01 One Instruction Set Computer 07:07:11 hehe 07:07:12 It is in the toy/esoteric category 07:07:37 interesting 07:07:42 how's it work? 07:07:53 multiple arguments? 07:07:55 Poorly. 07:09:05 I think it is something like "jump if zero" or something 07:09:08 is there a stack built into the cpu of an x86? or just a stack pointer? 07:09:16 SP 07:09:18 ptr to area 07:09:24 ok 07:09:31 aqnd Base Pointer for stack frames 07:09:36 lord knows wtf cache and shit are doing 07:11:46 whats the difference between the SP and other registers? (it is a register right?) 07:12:17 SP is "Stack Pointer"; SS is "Stack Segment" - yes, applied-use regs 07:12:55 think of ss as "base" and sp as "offset" 07:13:06 ..as pertains only to stack 07:13:36 or, think of "bank" instead of "base" if that helps 07:13:47 ok 07:13:56 I think I understand 07:14:17 ss points to the beginning of the stack, sp points to the last element on the stack? 07:14:44 well, basically.. I can't recall if sp is pre or post increment 07:14:56 ok 07:15:09 what about the return stack? 07:15:16 same idea 07:15:23 different regs? 07:15:25 Same stack. 07:15:44 Q: yeah, sorry - misread the question 07:15:46 ss points to the segment the stack is in. I dont think it points to the base of the stack 07:16:17 amca: base/segment/bank - the voodoowith sp generates "a real address" 07:16:29 hehe fair enough 07:16:34 If were talking about the Forth VM, SP and RP are common-use names for the data and return stack pointers, respectively. 07:16:42 Depends if you are coding 32 bit protected or 16 bit real too 07:16:58 x86 wraps them both into one 07:16:59 right, Q.. It can simplify in some ways, and complicate in others 07:18:07 so there's only one stack in x86? 07:18:17 I thought there needed to be two 07:18:33 Only one dedicated register and set of instructions. In an x86 Forth you set up the other stack yourself. 07:18:40 Pick a pointer, allocate some memory. 07:18:53 ok 07:19:14 docl: remember, the x86 is a chip - not a VM ;-) 07:20:05 now, the ppc - THAT gets whacko.. I've given up puzzling out the goddamned stackframes and such 07:20:22 hehe. 07:21:04 Any Russian-speakers here? 07:21:12 nyet? 07:23:31 Quartus: Do you speak it? 07:24:01 Not well enough, that's why I'm looking for someone to assist. 07:24:47 Quartus: we do get some Russian speakers sometimes, but I don't see any nicks I'm sure of right now. 07:24:59 hi tathi ;-) 07:25:02 tathi, ok, thanks. 07:25:11 Hi PoppaVic 07:25:30 hey, lemme rafb yer opcodes - tell me if I segregated properly? 07:25:43 I'm selecting between a couple of ways of saying "Welcome to Quartus Forth" in Russian, just looking for the right idiom. 07:25:55 http://rafb.net/paste/results/N1SuS473.html 07:28:06 tathi: does that sorta' describe them proper? And, wtf is 'A reg'? 07:28:56 Address register 07:29:07 why is there a seperate flag stack? 07:29:11 a vm reg? or what? 07:29:16 amca, don't ask 07:29:18 Sorry, I've gotten used to people following Chuck's work. 07:29:20 PoppaVic: yes 07:29:25 lol 07:29:45 amca: it's very experimental -- not sure it's going to work out. 07:29:55 I see 07:30:00 ahh, ok - so it's in the VM - what is it called in that pseudo-vm C? 07:30:11 tathi: You creating your own forth implementation? 07:30:11 yeah, I wanted to ask about the fstack anyway 07:30:19 sure 07:30:36 amca: that's what I do for fun. :) 07:30:47 amca: 90% of forth is a VM 07:31:06 hmm 07:31:10 think this is number 9 or 10, but I lost count around 5... 07:31:21 a forth VM or a generic stack VM? 07:31:27 hehe 07:31:38 PoppaVic: Cell *A; // Address Register 07:31:56 ah, shit.. thanks. I missed that yesterday 07:32:02 amca: As I see it, if it's a stack VM it has to be pretty close to forth... 07:32:11 the A is then "anything"? 07:32:27 PoppaVic: I might have forgotten to add it to the code until later 07:32:35 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:32:37 tathi: Good point. You read stack computers then? 07:32:40 just wondering how A is used 07:32:48 Phil Koopman's "book"? yeah. 07:33:17 Mostly useful for scanning through data with the +@ and b+@ words. 07:33:28 tathi: What have you coded Forth systems in? 07:33:39 Or when you have an address that you want to use several times... 07:33:44 it's mostly a low-level construct 07:33:54 ahh, data-seg/sect then.. binary-data or 'compiled code'. OK. 07:34:16 amca: PPC assembly language, C, Forth 07:34:30 hrm, maybe 68K asm as well, can't remember. 07:34:35 actually, tathi 'A' sounds like "base-ptr" ;-) 07:34:47 lol. You coded a forth implementation in Forth? how does one do that? 07:34:59 bootstrapped forths are common 07:35:02 amca: you'd need a metacompiler 07:35:18 unless yer talking about something like FIG or retro 07:35:26 * amca 'h head spins 07:35:36 amca: yep 07:35:40 'h 's 07:36:01 PoppaVic: well, you can't index from it, so I wouldn't call it a base ptr, personally. 07:36:16 amca: look... Something needs to work to build the source into code/pcode. 07:36:22 tathi: ahh 07:36:49 amca, that MAF I linked you to -- that's a Forth in Forth. 07:37:01 tathi: I was thinking 'base' as in "foo *p= (void*)someptr;" 07:37:15 oh, ok. 07:37:15 Quartus: Ah. So that explains what I saw 07:37:27 What is a metacomplier? A compiler-compiler? 07:37:32 tathi: so, it's more a utility? 07:37:44 amca: exactly, a compiler of itself 07:38:20 So would it go something like c -> myForth -> myForth ? 07:38:25 I suspect gcc (if gas isa part) is a "metacompiler" 07:38:50 amca: yeah. 07:38:53 yeah, the idea would be that built once, it can then build itself thereafter 07:38:59 hehe 07:39:25 Jeff Fox says "When a Forth compiles a new Forth, we call it a meta compiler." 07:39:32 http://www.ultratechnology.com/meta.html 07:39:38 "metacompiler" is purely a forth neologism 07:39:50 yeah 07:39:51 other languages simply call it bootstrapping 07:40:20 ah 07:40:26 makes the whole process sound more mysterious than it really is 07:40:27 PoppaVic: yeah 'A' is just a utility -- useful for implementing cmove and such. 07:40:32 Im more familiar with the term bootstrapping 07:40:36 --- quit: sproingie (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:36 --- quit: nanstm (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:36 --- quit: OrngeTide (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:50 --- quit: amca (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:50 --- quit: PoppaVic (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:50 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:51 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:51 --- quit: JasonWoof (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:51 --- quit: Quartus (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:51 --- quit: tathi (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:52 --- quit: virsys (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:52 --- quit: onetom (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:52 --- quit: madwork (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:52 --- quit: crc (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:52 --- quit: Jim7J1AJH (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:41:40 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-129-157.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 07:41:40 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-6.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 07:41:40 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool238-144.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 07:41:40 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 07:41:40 --- join: nanstm (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 07:41:40 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:41:40 --- join: ccfg (i=ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 07:41:52 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (n=jim@221x115x224x2.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) joined #forth 07:41:56 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 07:41:56 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 07:41:56 --- join: madwork (n=madgarde@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 07:41:56 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 07:41:56 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 07:41:56 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-182-104.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 07:41:56 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o JasonWoof 07:41:57 --- join: crc (i=crc@pool-70-110-194-247.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 07:42:43 good old irc tree topology 07:42:45 tathi: damned netsplit, thanks - so, np... It's a GP "simulated" reg and I basically grouped stuff properly? 07:42:57 let's see if irc can ever make it into the 1960's of networking technology 07:43:28 sproingie: lilo never got back to me about his IRC2 Project, so.. I doubt it. 07:44:24 irssi supports some alternate irc thingie, i forget what it's called 07:44:39 couple other clients do too 07:45:01 ah, silc 07:45:16 supporting clients is almost doable, but all server docs and code is the ugliest shit I have ever suffered. 07:45:27 docs? 07:45:30 what docs 07:45:31 rfcs 07:45:34 hah 07:45:46 the rfc doesnt describe 10% of the protocol now 07:45:59 I spent a couple months trying to help a guys and make sense of all the rfcs. I gave up 07:46:00 it's been hacked and overloaded ... it's a nightmare 07:46:08 you're just expected to know what all those mode letters mean 07:46:36 and make socket/data/printf/sscanf assumptions across the board 07:46:56 oh, and structs - always structs 07:47:11 not sure if silc is more reliable actually 07:47:25 but there are plenty of message protocols that offer reliability 07:47:29 It needs a grounds-up rewrite 07:47:47 --- join: amca_ (n=plump@as-bri-3-159.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 07:47:58 for starters they don't rely on peer to peer, most use a star topology with failover and load balancing 07:47:59 IRC is not much better than clients wrapped around Janc's ancient "party" program 07:48:10 i.e. welcome to the world of virtual circuits, people 07:49:07 the 'R' in irc is quaint. it's like bitnet mass relay. or uucp. 07:49:42 yeah, I never understood the crap. I like tcp and use it nearly to exclusion. 07:50:06 i'd whip out erlang and write a better server in about a day -- just about anyone could 07:50:31 but just about everyone has, the adoption rate is terrible. irc servers survive like cockroaches 07:50:42 well, I _KNOW_ the server-side needs an overhaul; and I'd also overhaul clientside 07:51:19 with clients, it's easier - support a workable subset of behavior. 07:51:58 anyway, nm.. I've gotta' make a call and I may brb. THis source is "amusing"... 07:52:01 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:58:27 Goodnight all 07:58:45 --- quit: amca_ (Client Quit) 08:05:47 --- quit: amca (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 08:06:05 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:06:05 --- quit: OrngeTide (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:06:05 --- quit: sproingie (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:06:15 --- quit: nanstm (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:06:16 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:07:12 --- join: ccfg (i=ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 08:07:12 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 08:07:12 --- join: nanstm (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:07:12 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 08:07:14 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-129-157.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 08:12:51 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool65-205.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 08:13:20 OK, done there.. Gotta' split in a bit. 08:18:30 man, I am too old for this shit 08:19:18 man i am too young for this shit 08:20:22 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@62.178.85.149) joined #forth 08:21:44 ok, I give.. bbl, if I can think of anything... 08:21:46 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 09:29:21 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:45:14 --- quit: OrngeTide ("gone") 09:45:32 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 09:45:51 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 09:46:34 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 09:47:47 --- quit: cmeme (Client Quit) 09:48:30 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 10:19:47 --- join: derv0 (n=derv0@35.8.35.142) joined #forth 10:37:53 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (n=Miranda@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 10:42:12 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 10:51:44 --- part: Serg[GPRS] left #forth 11:31:16 --- quit: cmeme (Connection timed out) 12:05:10 --- quit: derv0 (Remote closed the connection) 12:25:36 --- join: derv0 (n=derv0@proxy1.nscl.msu.edu) joined #forth 12:27:32 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 12:27:51 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 12:28:33 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 12:38:26 --- quit: derv0 ("Client exiting") 12:38:28 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 12:49:11 --- join: derv0 (n=derv0@proxy1.nscl.msu.edu) joined #forth 13:05:59 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool236-174.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 13:06:27 Are we havin' fun yet? 13:19:30 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@ip68-13-110-105.om.om.cox.net) joined #forth 13:21:59 PoppaVic: No fun for you! 13:22:11 I'm tired, hot and hungry 13:22:21 JasonWoof: almost.. Forgot two items on the shopping expedition, damnnit 13:22:47 JasonWoof: looking at fovioum.c, is the DS stack growing "up"? 13:23:50 iirs both stacks grow down 13:23:53 iirc 13:23:59 hmm,weird 13:24:13 it says somewhere in the repository 13:24:45 hmm... could be different in the C than the asm 13:24:46 s'ok, I guess I'll puzzle it out. How are you guys expecting NIP() to work? 13:25:03 : nip ( a b -- b ) 13:25:25 ok, then that code is a but. 13:25:27 bug 13:25:42 Cell NIP(void) { return *DS++; } 13:25:42 ok. 13:25:59 How come some have returns and others not? 13:26:07 dunno 13:26:10 what's wrong with it? 13:26:14 ok. 13:26:33 tathi wrote it. I've only glanced at the C version 13:26:40 looks fine to me 13:26:42 nip? well - if I read it right, it's returning b and leaving tos at a 13:26:58 no 13:27:04 B is cached in a register/variable 13:27:19 ... could be wrong 13:27:21 umm 13:27:37 yeah 13:27:39 it is 13:27:40 OK. But,any hinkiness would not be deliberate, anyway - right? 13:27:55 hinkiness? 13:28:11 weirdness - no words are being really badly redefined 13:28:28 that NIP looks cool. 13:28:38 because then you can implement such things as + like so: 13:28:50 tathi mentioned the [0?]branch swap, and I can agree - but other words should act as I'm familiar, right? 13:28:50 T += NIP(); 13:29:19 OK, so nip was sorta' twisted 13:29:40 no, it just returns the value it removes from the stack 13:29:52 you can ignore the return value if you don't want it 13:29:58 ahhhhhhhhhh 13:30:31 ok. So. hmm { return T= *(DS++); } seems like it would 'nip' 13:31:10 the "opcodes" file contains comments for most of the non-standard primitives 13:31:12 er, maybe *(--DS) if growth is + 13:31:21 nip does not change TOS 13:31:27 the imp won't have anything to do with T 13:31:29 right, peering at some and comparing to the forvium 13:31:46 would'nt it change T as the stack changed? 13:31:50 no 13:31:54 ok 13:32:01 T is a variable that contains the top stack element 13:32:13 instead of literally residing on the stack? 13:32:17 (b in my stack comment above) 13:32:46 T is a variable. the value stored in that variable, is the value of the top stack item 13:33:07 the stack consists of some memory cells at DS and the value in T 13:33:21 T isn't a pointer or anything 13:33:43 showertime bbs 13:33:49 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 13:33:58 ok... before: T=b DS[ a b ] .... after T=b DS[ a ] ? 13:34:02 ok, np 13:34:10 sounds like a decent idea.. shower. 13:34:41 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-163-006.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 13:37:20 nip ( a b c d -- a b d ) 13:38:09 T=d DS [ a b c ] after: T=d DS [ a b ] 13:38:21 ahhhhhhhhh 13:38:35 thankyou - that's what I began guessing 13:38:57 what is T set to on an empty stack? 13:41:09 The sound of one hand clapping. 13:41:14 heh 13:42:01 What are you guys doing again? 13:42:06 PoppaVic: who cares? 13:42:12 madwork: getting confused ;-) 13:42:13 Making a VM for a forth metacompiler? 13:42:16 :) 13:42:31 madwork: tathi implemented the VM he and I designed, and PoppaVic is trying to understand the C implementation 13:42:43 OK. 13:42:53 tathi also wrote an implementation in PPC asm 13:42:59 madwork: I guess I'm taking a shower, since I'm just gonna' end up peeving jas again. Talk to you guys in the AM. 13:43:01 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 13:43:10 What's the purpose of this VM? 13:43:24 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:43:47 something I can run herkforth on that's simple, and that we can easily get to work on x86 including windoze 13:44:17 Ahh, keen. 13:44:23 I'm also hoping it will be a fun intermediate language for writing an optomized native compiler 13:44:39 How close are the opcodes to Forth? 13:45:27 very 13:45:42 it's a forth machine 13:45:48 Coo.. 13:46:06 http://josh.qualdan.com:3/svn/fovium/opcodes 13:46:19 is the code going to be word-aligned? 13:46:43 yes 13:47:05 6-bit opcodes are packed into 32-bit words 13:47:28 hmm... flag stack... interesting 13:47:43 Flag on the moon... how did it get there? 13:48:00 yeah, tathi's been wanting to try a flag stack for a while 13:49:16 if you want to, when you write an assembler for it, you can pack the last 2 bits in the word with an instruction (if it's one of the 4 opcodes that fit) 13:49:52 I'd like to see the list of instructions with stack diagrams. 13:50:14 Quartus: ok, maybe I'll add those soon 13:50:22 I'm pretty busy lately though 13:50:23 How's the flag stack work? 13:50:44 The only place I get confused is around the flag stack. Do comparison opcodes consume args or not? 13:50:46 madwork: it's just a stack of 32 true/false fsags 13:51:03 So, true/false values will not appear on the data stack? 13:51:19 i think the VM should have an explicit 'jump' opcode for tail call 13:51:24 Quartus: some do... I think all but ? 13:51:34 that way you won't need a conditional to check for tail call at every call 13:51:38 madwork: no, there's a seperate stack. 13:51:47 I'm curious to know how the flag stack improves life. 13:51:58 compairs push the flag stack, conditional branches/exits pop it 13:52:03 Wouldn't a flag stack duplicate opcodes? 13:52:21 and there's a few words to do logical and/or/not on the flag stack 13:52:33 Quartus: me too :) 13:52:49 slava: a seccond jump opcode? 13:53:25 man, I wish I could stir up this much conversation about herkforth :) 13:53:35 maybe I will be able to once it runs on fovium :) 13:55:08 First thought I have is that the flag stack eliminates branchless conditionals. 13:55:14 Which I'm kinda fond of. 13:56:46 oh, when you use a comparison word to get a -1/0 and use that as a number for math stuff? 13:57:14 Right. I most commonly use it to mask a delta. 13:57:38 "dup 9 > 8 and +", etc. 13:57:53 yeah 13:58:00 that can be cool sometimes 13:58:06 All of the comparators in Quartus (except min and max) are branchless. 13:58:09 I don't do that though 13:58:23 Well, somebody might, in order to avoid branching on a Pentium. 13:58:38 but > would compile to a branch on a pentium 13:58:43 With the flag stack, the only way it gets popped is with a conditional branch, so you're forcing a branch at each test. 13:58:44 I don't see how you would implement that sort of > on ppc without a branch 13:58:52 I don't know PPC well enough to say. 13:58:54 you can't.. 13:59:23 in factor, < by itself and < [ t ] [ f ] ifte compile to identical code 14:00:23 In 68K asm, there's a scc instruction that sets a byte's bits based on the result of a conditional test. 14:01:15 Quartus: that's neat 14:01:51 on ppc there's some trick where you can add the carry bit 14:02:29 Just dug into comp.lang.forth, found this for the 486: 14:02:29 CODE > ( n1 n2 -- f ) pop ax pop bx sub ax bx cwd push dx END-CODE 14:02:33 not sure if you can subtract the carry bit, if so you could perhaps get -1 as a true value 14:03:00 That's 16-bit, but would a similar technique not work on a Pentium? 14:03:06 so... I don't know, maybe you could do it on ppc without a branch 14:03:14 branches aren't so bad on ppc though... 14:03:29 As I understand it, they're the dog's breakfast on a Pentium, though. 14:03:47 heh, nice expression :) 14:03:49 Or am I out of touch? Not a lot of my work is done on the desktop these days. 14:04:57 Anyway, seems the flag stack would require branching at the VM level, despite best efforts at the Forth level to avoid it. 14:04:59 CWD is slow on Pentium Pro and above 14:05:22 can something be cooked up with sbb? 14:05:49 no idea 14:07:39 Ok, here's the Win32Forth =: 14:07:39 CODE > ( n1 n2 -- f ) pop ax pop bx sub ax bx cwd push dx END-CODE 14:07:42 dang 14:07:42 hang on 14:07:47 40191C 58 pop eax 14:07:47 40191D 2BD8 sub ebx, eax 14:07:47 40191F 83EB01 sub ebx, # 1 14:07:47 401922 1BDB sbb ebx, ebx 14:07:48 someone with gforth on x86 can look at 'see >' , as well. 14:07:53 gforth/sparc doesn't have a decompiler... 14:07:58 I just did, ayrnieu, it uses a branch. 14:08:48 Win32Forth > and < use a branch, too. 14:09:14 Whether it's necessary to do so, I don't know. 14:09:22 Clearly it's not for =. 14:11:05 Win32Forth 0< is just 4018F4 C1FB1F sar ebx, 1F 14:21:59 --- join: zoly (n=l@p549DB4D1.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:22:16 g'day 14:22:56 Hi, zoly. Does my memory play tricks on me, or do you know Russian? 14:23:22 sorry, that wasn't me. maybe asau does 14:23:27 k. Thanks. 14:23:30 How are things? 14:23:43 not too bad. 14:24:31 no hurricanes outside, reasonable temperatures, acceptable oxygene levels. 14:25:02 even the state of the phridge is quite satisfying 14:25:13 Excellent. 14:26:04 you are working on a russian QuartusForth translation ? 14:31:42 Done it, but curious as to the best "Welcome to" idiom. 14:32:27 hrrm... what do I make for potluck? 14:32:39 Food? we don't need to sticking food! 14:33:41 we have flower 14:35:49 Quartus: you could ask here: http://wiki.forth.org.ru/ 14:37:12 Good thought. 14:39:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 14:39:58 --- quit: derv0 ("Client exiting") 14:53:38 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-200.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 14:54:47 Morning 14:57:25 good morning amca 14:58:14 Gday crc 14:58:27 You are the RetroForth maintainer, right? 14:58:48 yes 14:59:06 Good. >:) Ive been wanting to ask you stuff :P 14:59:16 cool 15:00:39 I downloaded Stable RF 8.0 Native, and dd'd it as per instructions to (a few, because they are old floppies) floppies and tried to boot. Didnt display anything, just accessed disk for a sec then rebooted 15:00:51 try 8.1 15:01:03 8.0 Native had a few bugs on some machines 15:01:06 Is that the dev ver? 15:01:19 no, it became the stable version on Saturday 15:01:35 8.2 is the dev version currently 15:02:01 I downloaded the dev ver a couple of days ago - have there been any changes to it since then? 15:02:28 a few minor updates 15:02:36 when I tried the dev ver, it got so far as to print out a string and then rebooted. 15:02:43 hmm 15:03:00 Ill try both 8.1 and 8.2 and see what happens 15:03:03 what are the specs on the machine you're running it on? 15:03:21 * crc wants to build a hardware compatibility list at some point 15:04:36 256Mb RAM, 200 GB HD, Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz 15:04:48 SoundBlaster Live s/card 15:05:04 Hmmm...you will wanna know the mobo eh? 15:05:18 It is an MSI one 15:05:29 onboard almost everything 15:05:53 hmm... 15:06:04 it shouldn't have trouble on a machine that new 15:06:22 Well it could be a h/ware problem 15:06:31 The floppy drive and floppies are old 15:06:52 But I tried several floppies, so I thought I reduced likelyhood of floppy stuff up 15:07:23 I was looking for an earlier version of RF cause I thought it might be simpler and try less things on the machine and would be more likely to boot 15:08:18 the 7.6 release might work, but it has a pickier boot sector than 8.x does 15:08:34 How do I get my hands on it? 15:08:46 http://www.retroforth.org/download/7.x/rf76-native.tar.gz 15:08:53 thanks 15:09:14 http://www.retroforth.org/download/ has most of the old version of retro on it 15:09:21 np 15:09:22 Ah 15:09:38 it's sort of "hidden" to cut down on support headaches 15:09:43 I was trying to look for an old page but couldnt find one 15:09:46 hehe 15:09:47 I see 15:09:50 Understandable 15:09:55 * crc recalls the 6.x days when people would ask about bugs in 2.x :) 15:10:10 OMG 15:10:27 rf-wiki.zip ? 15:10:38 hehe 15:10:49 a wiki engine written in rf and a thin php wrapper 15:10:58 why is php involved? 15:11:00 I'll have a much better version up soon 15:11:06 hehe. No wonder it is only 6k 15:11:18 slava: handling calling rf, saving the pages 15:11:35 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 15:11:36 I'm working to remove my need for php, but haven't fully succeeded yet 15:12:24 I was playing with rf, and it seemed like you can only have a one line word def. Am I right or did I stuff up? 15:12:45 8.x supports multi-line definitions 15:12:55 hmm 15:13:17 * amca checks 15:13:24 if you're using the editor and evaluate with "e", definitions are limited to one line. Use of "eb" would give the desired behaviour in that case. 15:14:06 From memory I tried that, but got a seg fault. Ill double check now though 15:15:57 hey amca 15:16:24 gday lscd . What are you doing up so early :P 15:16:31 it's midnight 15:16:34 i've not been to bed yet 15:16:59 maaaa! I need a nap 15:17:02 lol 15:17:06 I see 15:21:10 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3577151.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 15:22:19 what to do... 15:22:22 I could: 15:22:27 a) work 15:22:33 b) other work 15:22:46 c) put everything in a box 15:22:58 d) scrounge/cook some food and go to potluck 15:23:17 e) put $1,000,000 into my bank account 15:24:26 rr... 15:24:43 no, I think e) was sit here and get nothing done at all 15:24:50 but I think I wouldn't be happy with that 15:25:12 heh 15:25:23 What work is to be done? 15:25:28 oooh! maybe I could go to my mom's house 15:25:44 a client wants meta tags for better yahoo ranking 15:26:07 for another I'm finishing up a web interface you can use to make web-forms 15:26:28 What lang in? 15:26:33 PHP 15:26:38 * amca nods 15:27:02 Didnt wanna try it in js? ;) 15:27:03 I mostly just need to make it so you can set/edit the options for the pulldowns (and radio buttons) 15:27:14 not funny 15:27:34 rrr... maybe it was, now I'm snickering 15:27:38 hehe 15:37:35 well, no dinner from mommy... 15:38:27 :( 15:38:33 What did you want for dinner? 15:38:41 Anything you dont have to cook yourself? :) 15:39:50 pizza! 15:39:50 basically :) 15:39:55 preferably with meat 15:40:20 nah, me and cheese just don't see eye to eye 15:40:45 yummy! 15:40:46 * lscd nods 15:40:48 * lscd is vegan 15:41:05 --- quit: zoly (Remote closed the connection) 15:41:50 imho, the best low-prep pizza is a premade crust, with some pine nuts and basil tossed on it 15:42:05 though just buying one totally premade works too 15:42:22 --- quit: amca (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:22 --- quit: tathi (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:22 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:23 --- quit: virl (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:24 --- quit: slava (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:31 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:31 --- quit: sproingie (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:31 --- quit: nanstm (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:31 --- quit: cmeme (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:49 --- quit: crc (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:56 --- quit: Jim7J1AJH (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:56 --- quit: ayrnieu (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:56 --- quit: Quartus (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:56 --- quit: virsys (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:56 --- quit: onetom (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:56 --- quit: madwork (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:56 --- quit: JasonWoof (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:45:17 --- quit: lscd ("Leaving") 15:45:31 --- join: lscd (n=lscd@adsl-213-180-182-5.cybernet.ch) joined #forth 15:46:23 --- quit: lscd (Client Quit) 15:52:06 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 15:52:06 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@ip68-13-110-105.om.om.cox.net) joined #forth 15:52:06 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 15:52:06 --- join: madwork (n=madgarde@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 15:52:06 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 15:52:06 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-182-104.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 15:52:06 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o JasonWoof 15:52:06 --- join: lscd (n=lscd@adsl-213-180-182-5.cybernet.ch) joined #forth 15:53:29 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-200.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 15:53:34 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (n=jim@221x115x224x2.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) joined #forth 15:54:08 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 15:54:08 --- join: crc (i=crc@pool-70-110-194-247.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 15:54:08 --- join: ccfg (i=ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 15:54:08 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 15:54:08 --- join: nanstm (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-254-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 15:54:14 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 15:54:14 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 15:54:14 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-163-006.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 15:54:14 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@62.178.85.149) joined #forth 15:54:16 About time 15:54:50 yep 15:56:43 --- log: started forth/05.08.29 15:56:43 --- join: clog (i=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 15:56:43 --- topic: 'Forth: One language, many dialects. #forth - general forth discussion. #c4th - ColorForth. #retro - RetroForth. #c4th-ot - social channel. #1xforth - a secret channel for 1xforthers. #concatenative - the category of language that forth belongs to (sorta).' 15:56:43 --- topic: set by crc on [Sat Jul 23 13:29:38 2005] 15:56:43 --- names: list (clog saon skylan ianp virl Snoopy42 slava tathi Jim7J1AJH amca cmeme crc ccfg sproingie nanstm) 15:56:52 --- join: lscd (n=lscd@adsl-213-180-182-5.cybernet.ch) joined #forth 15:57:08 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 15:57:08 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@ip68-13-110-105.om.om.cox.net) joined #forth 15:57:08 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 15:57:08 --- join: madwork (n=madgarde@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 15:57:08 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 15:57:08 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-182-104.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 15:57:08 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o JasonWoof 15:57:12 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 15:57:26 --- join: docl (n=docl@67-138-198-36.bras01.mcl.id.frontiernet.net) joined #forth 16:05:04 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 16:08:38 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 16:11:57 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3577151.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 16:17:46 --- quit: warpzero (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:17:47 --- quit: virsys (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:17:47 --- quit: onetom (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:17:47 --- quit: madwork (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:17:47 --- quit: JasonWoof (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:17:47 --- quit: ayrnieu (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:17:48 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@ip68-13-110-105.om.om.cox.net) joined #forth 16:17:51 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 16:17:57 --- join: onetom (n=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 16:17:58 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-182-104.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 16:18:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 16:23:16 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-65-96-120-126.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:23:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 16:54:03 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 17:03:45 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:16:41 --- quit: cmeme ("Client terminated by server") 17:16:57 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 17:39:59 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 18:13:37 --- join: saon (i=1000@c-66-177-224-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:09:40 --- join: amca_ (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-212.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 19:10:51 --- quit: amca (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19:53:05 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 20:02:40 --- quit: amca_ (Client Quit) 20:07:04 --- join: asymptote (n=weldon@pool-68-239-105-49.res.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 20:14:09 --- quit: asymptote (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:46:34 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:48:50 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 21:25:53 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 21:26:12 hey 21:27:34 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 22:08:20 --- join: ramkrsna (n=ramkrsna@61.2.66.241) joined #forth 22:13:00 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 22:15:31 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 22:39:54 --- quit: ramkrsna ("printk("Rusty's brain broke \n");") 22:40:41 --- quit: sproingie (Remote closed the connection) 22:51:36 --- join: ayrnieu_ (n=julian@ip68-13-110-105.om.om.cox.net) joined #forth 22:51:54 --- quit: ayrnieu (Nick collision from services.) 22:52:02 --- nick: ayrnieu_ -> ayrnieu 22:52:54 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 22:53:50 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 22:54:09 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 22:54:52 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 23:45:13 --- quit: clog (^C) 23:45:13 --- log: stopped forth/05.08.29 23:45:31 --- log: started forth/05.08.29 23:45:31 --- join: clog (i=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 23:45:31 --- topic: 'Forth: One language, many dialects. #forth - general forth discussion. #c4th - ColorForth. #retro - RetroForth. #c4th-ot - social channel. #1xforth - a secret channel for 1xforthers. #concatenative - the category of language that forth belongs to (sorta).' 23:45:31 --- topic: set by crc on [Sat Jul 23 13:29:38 2005] 23:45:31 --- names: list (clog cmeme ayrnieu OrngeTide saon virsys onetom warpzero madgarden Quartus docl Jim7J1AJH @crc ccfg Raystm2 slava Snoopy42 ianp skylan lscd) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.08.29