00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.08.17 00:10:10 --- quit: booyaa ("leaving") 00:12:02 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:01:46 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@CPE0000e812679b-CM000a7362da55.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 05:36:50 good morning Amanita 05:37:04 g'day. 06:04:36 --- join: madwork (n=madgarde@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:11:30 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool66-149.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:24:02 good morning, PoppaVic 06:24:11 hiya 06:24:18 how's it going? 06:24:44 well, it's a lovely day.. BUt, I'm trying to wake up and see what the hell code I can get done ;-) 06:25:36 hehe, me too. well I'm working on an article to promote public domain software 06:25:53 I've been stymied for a few days now, other than clean-up tinkers 06:26:48 I think we need, (more importantly), a decent license written in basic HS english. 06:26:49 what kind of stuff you up against? 06:27:16 heh, well I think GPL really falls into public domain legally 06:27:31 trying to ascertain how to decode sh from config.guess into C, and still trying to see what is possible to learn about the underlying machine. 06:28:15 the power of the law is only granted on pretext of economic benefit to the author. with free software that is given away, so the legality of the copyright is questionable 06:28:39 government is questionable too 06:28:47 hehe 06:29:35 I get tired of everyone and their "viral-license" whimpers as well as the idea open-software attracting so many fools. 06:30:28 blah. my software is closed-source and i like it that way. 06:30:38 My basic feeling always was "This is freeware to students & homeusers, (leave in my (c) and credits). If you use thisfor any product, I expect to be paid." 06:30:39 well it's a pretty devious trick, using copyright against itself 06:31:01 devious tricks are the REALM of governments and lawyers 06:31:14 the devious trick was eating our seed corn. 06:31:18 hooray for removing the value of software 06:31:49 now "programmer" is right up there with "philosophy student" in terms of how it's perceived and getting to the point where the pay is about the same 06:31:58 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (n=Miranda@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 06:32:36 well, we all want a piece of the pie 06:32:56 i don't know, open source is all about throwing out the pie. 06:33:04 but it was such good pie. 06:33:12 it'd be no fun to work hard on something then someone else get rich off it 06:33:29 opensource was an interesting idea, but seems to draw too many illiterate haqueers 06:33:41 possible 06:33:51 'haqueers'? 06:33:52 I do think it puts out some good products 06:34:11 H4CK3R$ 06:34:15 and, yeah.. I never much minded other folks using my source, but I do tend to get peeved if they think THEY should earn off someone elses sweat 06:34:38 those exist anyway, and need to have some playground to use 06:34:56 just sue them - the ones who make $$$ on open-source 06:35:09 We've even had arguments from folks that linking to an installed LIB is illegal. 06:35:15 i dunno... i use so little source outside of my own these days 06:35:31 if i don't need their code, i see no reason to 'give back'. 06:35:37 although i do give away some binaries 06:35:48 "just sue them" has got to be as stupid as "Just shoot yourself" 06:35:56 this is why OS users and authors should team up 06:36:07 why ? 06:36:23 why?? Because fuckin' lawyers are expensive leeches 06:37:18 i think OSF has good lawyers who work for idea ;)) 06:37:43 I avoid lawyers, cops and other such like the plague they are. 06:37:45 open source is good. public domain is better. 06:37:52 agreed 06:38:02 courts exist to keep you out of them 06:38:15 and i mean direct theft of code and idea, but where are many ways on legally earning on it 06:38:18 docl: most folks are unaware wtf PD means. And yet, there should be megatons of code in the PD 06:38:21 like jails, hospitals, etc. 06:38:31 open-source: watching communism devolve into a welfare state yet again. 06:40:00 * Serg[GPRS] slams the door by now - no dhamn politics anymore ! 06:40:01 --- part: Serg[GPRS] left #forth 06:41:01 I wonder where all the PD stuff is 06:41:14 whoops. 06:41:20 the CUG cd's? 06:42:00 what's that? 06:42:19 C users group 06:45:02 hmm, guess that would tend to have lots 06:45:34 I wonder how many pd contributions are put in modern OS's without any credit given 06:46:49 no idea, hard to find PD anymore 06:47:09 it's the GPL meme, took over it's old habitat 06:48:24 I can't remember what license linus used, but I'm sure it's another mess 06:48:59 well, ever since I can remember it's been GPL 06:49:16 but there was some other license in the early days I believe 06:49:25 yet, he ends up coordinating all the releases? 06:50:08 it's really about hard work, community, and a useful idea 06:50:25 All three are pretty well on the downslide 06:50:51 yeah, people don't work as hard as they did in the old days 06:51:02 they want scripting, too 06:51:19 ..and the compiler to optimize the universe, hold their hand and do GC 06:51:28 hehe 06:51:42 broad is the path to destriction 06:52:01 narrow is the path of retroforth, that leads to eternal life 06:52:06 I still laugh at the doomsayers stating C is doomed. 06:52:26 I agree it's screwed up, but their alternatives never seem to build an OS 06:53:01 retro is still cpu-restricted, iirc 06:53:19 ..and, again, won't metacompile itself, let alone an OS, eh? 06:53:41 hmm. well it uses fasm 06:53:46 yep 06:54:24 it's pretty close to meta-compiling itself though. they're working on an assembler for it, I think 06:54:43 we'll see 06:56:58 most of it is written in itself though. asm is only used for the primitives. 06:57:26 yeah. THey'd need to bundle-up that core, and document the hell outta' it. 06:57:44 ofcourse, that was the FIG goal in the Long Ago 06:57:52 hehe 06:59:08 I'm beginning to suspect I should just USE config.guess *sigh* It's one nasty bit of work 06:59:32 heh 07:00:03 hacking configure scripts, eek 07:01:09 I was TRYING to puzzle it out to use a simple C program, but they have a ton of dependencies and cascading-cases acting like a state-machine 07:02:54 --- join: snoopy_16 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-168-212.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 07:02:55 --- quit: lasindi_ ("Konversation terminated!") 07:11:13 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 07:11:16 --- nick: snoopy_16 -> Snoopy42 07:32:44 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:37:22 --- quit: sproingie ("Kopete 0.10.2 : http://kopete.kde.org") 07:38:45 --- join: sproingie (i=foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:48:03 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 08:45:46 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 08:54:23 --- quit: ayrnieu (Remote closed the connection) 08:54:25 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@ip68-13-110-105.om.om.cox.net) joined #forth 09:12:23 --- quit: sproingie (Remote closed the connection) 09:15:43 --- quit: OrngeTide ("bye") 09:27:14 --- join: ianp (n=ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 09:42:24 --- quit: PoppaVic ("brb") 09:44:05 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-220.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:46:00 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 10:01:22 --- join: danniken (i=CapStone@70.249.57.224) joined #forth 12:43:43 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 12:48:31 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 14:35:58 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:40:07 --- join: tintin (n=thomas@adsl-67-67-239-63.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:44:53 --- quit: YoyoFreeBSD_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:46:53 --- part: tintin left #forth 14:49:30 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Slips out quietly.") 15:00:39 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 15:30:56 --- join: snowrichard (n=chatzill@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 15:31:56 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 15:34:05 --- join: snoopy_16 (i=snoopy_1@dsl-084-058-168-212.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 15:34:30 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 15:34:53 --- nick: snoopy_16 -> Snoopy42 17:01:16 --- quit: virsys (Connection timed out) 17:05:46 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-65-40-179-12.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 17:32:26 --- quit: virl ("Client Exiting") 18:04:31 --- quit: neceve ("Leaving") 19:12:01 --- join: YoyoFreeBSD_ (n=yoyofree@222.90.3.250) joined #forth 21:03:18 --- join: ayrnieu_ (n=julian@ip68-13-110-105.om.om.cox.net) joined #forth 21:05:16 --- quit: ayrnieu ("Reconnecting") 21:05:22 --- nick: ayrnieu_ -> ayrnieu 21:14:34 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 21:45:54 --- quit: onetom (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:46:15 --- join: onetom (N=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 23:04:36 --- quit: onetom (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:04:49 --- join: onetom (N=tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 23:12:45 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 23:29:16 --- quit: neceve ("Leaving") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.08.17