00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.07.28 01:39:25 --- join: arke (~chris@p54A7EE71.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 01:58:37 --- quit: arke ("Verlassend") 01:59:20 --- join: arke (~chris@p54A7EE71.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:01:56 --- join: Raystm2_ (~vircuser@adsl-68-95-250-138.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 02:16:47 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:32:24 --- quit: danniken () 02:53:21 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 04:25:02 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-49-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 04:25:02 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:46:07 --- join: tathi (~josh@tathi.bronze.supporter.pdpc) joined #forth 05:26:37 --- quit: tathi ("thanks") 05:26:48 --- join: tathi (~josh@tathi.bronze.supporter.pdpc) joined #forth 05:32:24 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 05:48:19 --- nick: nanstm -> tiff 05:51:58 --- quit: tathi ("enjoying the beautiful weather :)") 05:55:47 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-49-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 05:55:47 --- quit: tiff (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:56:48 --- nick: Raystm2 -> tiff 05:57:57 --- join: aum (~aum@port-60-234-99-177.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 05:58:31 Hi 05:59:22 --- nick: tiff -> nanstm 05:59:44 I AM TEH TrOLL 05:59:47 FEEEEED ME 06:00:38 No way. 06:00:54 You usually do. 06:00:56 Asshole. 06:02:50 Not falling for it, sorry. 06:10:09 * arke marks this as a historic moment - "robert does not feed the trolls" 06:11:15 --- quit: aum () 07:20:50 --- join: sproingie (foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:29:13 --- join: samc (~sam@203-114-131-217.inspire.net.nz) joined #forth 07:29:30 --- join: PoppaVic (~pete@dialup-4.229.84.51.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) joined #forth 07:30:31 G'day 07:51:48 --- join: virl (~hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 08:04:56 --- join: farus (~chatzilla@uip245.megapipe.net) joined #forth 08:05:37 hi :-) can anyone recommend a small cheap forth for win32? something with a dos box and not too fancy 08:05:51 fpc 08:06:06 for dos, it was always stone-cold cool 08:06:32 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-49-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:06:52 --- quit: nanstm (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:07:55 PoppaVic: google is turning up alot of results for "fpc forth" 08:08:26 you need to visit the fig-forth site, methinks - can't recall the url 08:09:00 I used it so long ago I had purchased 5-1/4" floppies 08:09:30 is win32forth any good? 08:09:35 it looks like a big project 08:09:52 you asked for a dos forth, for doze: yer on yer own 08:10:39 ummm, I said win32 with a dos box :-P 08:11:26 oh.. Now I see, the win32 preceeded dos: well, they ain't the same Except wherein both make me ill 08:11:54 farus: gforth runs in a windows console 08:12:07 farus: its not too small though, albeit smaller than win32forth 08:12:21 gforth is tolerable. 08:12:27 cool 08:12:29 farus: then, theres retroforth, which is very simple and small, and I like it alot 08:12:33 never tried their doze-release 08:12:42 I have win32forth already, but I use emacs and I need something I can run under emacs 08:12:55 I have been using win32 forth as a calculator for sometime now 08:12:56 bwahahaha! 08:13:14 what's funny? :-D 08:13:37 emacs? eww! 08:13:42 well, doze with emacs is.. and then adding forth is hillarious 08:13:50 :) 08:14:08 * arke at work, finally got a free minute :D 08:14:19 I run a mips emulator under emacs and code in assembly 08:14:36 a game-engine that thinks it's an OS; plus an editor that thinks IT is an OS; plus a language that ITSELF wants to be an OS.. Lovely 08:15:04 well, I need to make a beerrun... bbiab 08:15:27 "game-engine" hahahahahahahha 08:16:57 you think emacs is bad? what do you use? 08:17:27 * samc grabs some popcorn 08:17:42 samc: you know exactly whats coming :) 08:17:52 farus: vi. vim, to be precise. 08:18:11 elvis is the king. 08:18:22 farus: I used to use emacs, but it ran slow on my 200MMX and gave me hand cramps from all the ctrl+ crap 08:18:29 Robert: ;) 08:18:50 hmmm 08:18:55 emacs runs slowly on a P200? 08:19:06 That's more than even I claim. 08:19:11 Is it true? 08:19:21 I used vim for 3 years, it has syntax highlighting out of the box alright, but nothing else. It can't do Lisp 08:19:51 Robert: well, the way I tend to max out my computer, yes 08:20:05 Robert: I type faster than my 1.7ghz can process sometimes :) 08:20:20 If I want my editor to do lisp, I'll get emacs. No doubt. 08:20:30 farus: oh, boring, no point arguing with you. 08:20:36 farus: :P 08:22:39 --- join: nanstm (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-49-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:22:53 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:23:33 hehe, I try to avoid being a tool arguing about tools :-P 08:24:36 though some people deserve to be rediculed.NET and made fun of++ 08:25:42 :) 08:26:07 Like this guy? http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=157168&cid=13177122 08:27:22 haha 08:30:20 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 08:30:33 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 08:31:22 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 08:31:27 I really don't get movie referenes; where is that from? Bouikonor? 08:32:09 Movie? Heh. 08:32:20 That's the russian space control center. 08:32:37 Think "Houston" when you see it (with a russian accent) 08:33:03 And they're only refering to Windows and the article linked to, as far as I can tell. 08:34:46 awwww 08:35:28 whee 08:37:39 random thought for today: opensource pundits often say "the advantage of open source software is that you can tailor it to your needs..." bullshit, most software is too complex to bother. Now if the software were written with the forth philosophy... 08:38:22 I know I never have 08:38:23 well, there are a multitude of "issues" with opensource.. Formost being licenses, the haqueers, and "what's a document?" 08:39:24 I wonder how many open source pundits have actually tailored a non-trivial prog to thier needs 08:40:10 since you actually need to LEARN more autoshit than C or asm, (and then stay friggin' current), I dunno' - I try not to notice 08:40:55 next time someone cites this advantage ask them for a personal example ;) 08:41:11 Not interested, to be honest. 08:41:24 I've mostly seen RMS quote it. And I think he CAN provide some examples. 08:41:43 I'm sure he can 08:41:46 And, near as I can tell.. writing a "major project" and porting it would be nontrivial for Forth(ish) as well 08:43:06 sounds tautologous 08:43:16 or however it is spelt 08:44:24 "spelled" and I have no idea what you mean to say. 08:45:29 uh spelt is fine where I come from, and I mean to say you may have well said "writing a non-trivial project in forth is non-trivial" 08:46:08 It was not synonymous 08:46:26 yes indeed but that furthers my point 08:46:42 with forths, they often muck about with what other systems consider "keywords" 08:47:19 as soon as that happens, it'smore like talking about C++ and their godrotted op-overloading tendencies 08:47:59 although, yes. I can often read the forthish a whole lot easier that c++ and templates and overloading 08:49:18 I'm still cogitating the libTIL thing, myself.. I still doubt folks need access to the return-stack 08:52:56 libTIL? 08:53:59 yeah, somewhere along the way this fall/winter, I've decided to write a TIL library for C. It's just damned useful if I can get it to work with/to/from C 08:54:50 PoppaVic, for what do you need coders which should code common c prototypes for your vm? 08:56:14 virl: shoot that past me again? 08:56:59 sorry, TIL? 08:57:08 Threaded Interpretive Language 08:57:15 the prototypical forth 08:57:55 I think it would be more understandable when you would call it libforth ;-) 08:58:19 it is not and will not be "a forth" 08:59:04 at best, it will be Yet Another Variant or the "prototypical" 08:59:05 nothing wrong with operator overloading ... just don't look at the spirit parser 08:59:22 spirit is overloading abuse par excellence 08:59:35 sproingie: I like op-overloading as well, but I haven'tbeen able to stomach C++ code for years 08:59:47 PoppaVic: i hear ya. it's so damn VERBOSE 09:00:01 also obfuscated and ugly w/o reason 09:00:10 for (std::map::const_iterator i ... 09:00:14 * sproingie pukes 09:00:48 I'd feel all sortsa' "better' (as I've said in ##C) if C++ would friggin' generate C and let C generate the goddamned asm 09:01:11 that's irrelevant to C++ though 09:01:20 cfront did generate C, but it wasn't C you'd want to read 09:01:24 when they skipped over the C-gen stage is when C++ started to go apeshit-ugly 09:01:36 i think you're confusing correllation with causation 09:01:37 PoppaVic you know of "atlast"? 09:01:37 hey, C++ puking code looks better than smalltalk oop code... 09:01:48 sproingie: just another case against the committees, I guess 09:01:59 samc: downloaded it and peeked, iirc 09:02:06 ok 09:02:15 the committees aren't the problem, it's compiler vendors who didn't support the standards as they existed 09:02:38 samc: almost universally, the solutions I find seem to use different propositions and predicate differently. 09:02:39 and gcc was one of the very worst c++ compilers of all 09:02:42 now it's great 09:02:45 wasn't always 09:03:30 still generates some awesomely bloated code tho 09:03:33 well, I wish the commies would examine "native gcc", remember that it's used EVERYWHERE, and then split into a libc and (gc)c working group. 09:04:04 rms doesn't want gcc to be free of his control 09:04:12 not the point 09:04:14 plenty of people on the gcc committee wish it were 09:04:27 libc isn't under gcc's control whatsoever 09:04:39 ulrich drepper isn't the best friend to libc's development either 09:04:44 tho at least he can still write code 09:05:01 the commies can split-focus on "Yes, c00 should be predicated on gcc-default", and libc needs the std-commies to absolutely demand basics and breakout. 09:05:18 feh 09:05:24 not gonna happen 09:05:24 yeah, it's unlikely 09:05:28 anyway i'm way late, gotta go 09:05:37 * sproingie & 09:05:39 Which iswhy I could care less about their "standards" 09:05:43 stay well, sproingie 09:07:10 so then you care somewhat :P sorry, I just find that americanism annoying 09:07:48 hmm? 09:08:13 "could care less" vs. "couldn't care less" 09:08:19 ahh 09:08:35 yeah, sorry - it's automatic. 09:09:10 The C standards folks piss me off about as much as ANS-forth folks did. 09:10:11 I tend to get peeved with the formers defenders that seem to believe that C is just semantics/syntax for the base-language.. As though libc was seriously "optional" 09:11:27 I still cannot get over finding systems where strdup() is simply not supported. (and that's the most trivial example) 09:12:37 I can't recall how old C is.. 30 years? 40? and they STILL pretend that libc is an optional, aggregate kitchen-sink that folks *may* decide to support. 09:13:37 I'm not even sure where you'd draw a similar line in forth... But, that line would pretty-well cripple it. 09:14:47 whats your main problem with ans forth? 09:16:57 that it was broken and useless from the day it printed? My memories of reading their docs left me feeling they spent more time lording it over the world than resolving anything. Actually, I remember getting "forth Dimensions" issues that were more useful. 09:18:53 virl: iirc, they tended to mandate the interface AND the guts - and never (if they could help it) utilizing the best code I'd seen printed in the FIG periodicals 09:18:55 broken? 09:19:50 virl, iirc ANS forth implementations were just about useless. 09:20:21 anyone that wrote one (iirc) immediately had to add a lot of extensions to even recognize the hw, let alone the os 09:20:49 anyway, no: I don't read ANS anymore or worry about it. 09:21:54 * virl doesn't like ans forth too 09:22:56 iirc, ANS forth is more crippled that ansi-C 09:51:37 --- join: Raystm2_ (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-33-254.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 10:02:33 --- join: tathi (~josh@tathi.bronze.supporter.pdpc) joined #forth 10:09:53 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:55:03 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Calls it a Knight - and takes a well-deserved snooze") 11:11:13 --- quit: pilb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:52:47 --- quit: arke ("OFF TO A CONCERT TO GET SHITFACED, BE BACK SUNDAY! GERMAN LIQUOR KICKS ASS!!!") 11:54:15 --- quit: samc () 12:25:29 --- join: pilb (~q@ip24-254-47-107.br.br.cox.net) joined #forth 12:26:08 --- quit: Robert ("meow") 13:39:34 --- quit: pilb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:41:38 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@ppp-70-248-32-135.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 13:57:27 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:23:26 --- join: pilb (~q@ip24-254-47-107.br.br.cox.net) joined #forth 14:41:56 --- join: JasonWoof (~jason@c-65-96-120-126.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:41:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 14:43:25 --- quit: farus ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7/20040616]") 14:53:17 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:37:48 --- join: Toxicopia (~User@S0106000f3d4a828f.ed.shawcable.net) joined #forth 17:41:55 --- join: aum (~aum@port-60-234-96-178.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 17:43:55 Hi. 17:44:41 --- quit: sproingie (Remote closed the connection) 17:44:54 --- join: sproingie (foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 17:46:33 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (~jim@usen-221x115x224x2.ap-US01.usen.ad.jp) joined #forth 17:47:54 --- part: aum left #forth 18:48:04 --- join: snoopy_16 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-141-083.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 18:49:14 --- quit: onetom (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:55:21 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 18:55:26 --- nick: snoopy_16 -> Snoopy42 19:00:07 --- quit: Toxicopia () 19:04:43 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 19:16:44 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 19:29:40 --- join: Snoopy42 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-129-076.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:57:48 --- quit: pilb (Client Quit) 21:15:25 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 21:25:05 --- quit: swalters (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:09:00 --- join: swalters (~swalters@2416457hfc118.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 22:31:18 --- quit: sproingie ("Konversation terminated!") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.07.28