00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.07.24 00:03:12 --- nick: saon___ -> saon|smgl 00:06:22 --- quit: KB1FYR (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:23 --- quit: madwork (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:23 --- quit: hrmpf (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:23 --- quit: asymptote (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:23 --- quit: saon|smgl (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:23 --- quit: Raystm2 (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:23 --- quit: warpzero (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:24 --- quit: sproingie (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:24 --- quit: ccfg (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:06:52 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 00:06:52 --- join: hrmpf (~obi@gw.mastmoen.no) joined #forth 00:07:16 --- join: asymptote (~dmesg@pool-151-200-157-93.res.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 00:07:16 --- join: saon|smgl (~saon@c-66-177-224-222.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:07:16 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-68-93-114-134.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 00:07:16 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 00:07:16 --- join: sproingie (foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 00:07:16 --- join: ccfg (ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 00:07:25 netsplit? 00:15:01 netstplit. 00:15:09 netsplit. 00:15:43 aye. twas a big one 00:38:13 --- quit: asymptote ("Free the mallocs!") 00:46:10 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@d-66-63-85-222.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 00:49:42 --- join: virl (~hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 01:51:31 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 02:11:22 --- join: snoopy_16 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-154-143.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 02:11:42 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:11:46 --- nick: snoopy_16 -> Snoopy42 02:46:20 --- join: moin (~chris@p54A7BE70.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:46:26 hello 02:46:57 anybody awake? 02:49:04 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 02:50:03 teh hies 02:50:12 hello 02:50:23 hi 02:51:17 i am looking for a forth for windows that has support for me to program GUI and sound 02:52:05 hrm, theres plenty :) 02:52:12 win32forth for example 02:52:34 although it doesnt have too good of a reputation:) 02:52:46 i looked at win32forth, i didnt like it 02:52:48 or bigforth, but that's not really useable. 02:52:51 i dont like the ans standard at all 02:53:04 i used to use pygmyforth but i want something like it for windows 02:53:14 and i dont want to make my own 02:53:27 I don't think that there are much forthers which like the ans standard. 02:53:30 well, that rules out swiftforth as well... 02:53:41 thats true, theres not many 02:55:05 :( 02:55:18 i looked on the frank seargent website, but he isnt making one for windows 02:56:58 yeah, a shame. 02:57:06 screw the ARM, I want windows :D 02:57:39 :) 02:57:59 you know 02:58:22 if you dont mind importing the functions yourself, which is easy, you can use retroforth 02:58:30 yeah, you could use retro. but that lacks the fancy windowing things 02:58:38 arke http://colorforth.info/cb0507232103.htm 02:58:45 well, as i said, you can include them as a library 02:59:04 I've made several changes to that but there's then basic idea 02:59:31 Raystm2:^^^ 02:59:42 retroforth looks good 03:00:09 moin: its kinda pygmyforth+colorforth+eforth minus all the meat 03:01:52 be back later, lunch 03:01:54 arke: i lack 18 boolean tests to having a complete ChuckBot capable of anything a Karel the Robot or Guido van Robot can do. 03:02:07 moin: germany? I'm going to lunch in a moment too :) 03:02:09 :) 03:02:22 Raystm2: heh, interesting 03:02:46 Raystm2: tathi did a good job... 03:02:47 --- quit: moin ("Verlassend") 03:03:52 i had a nice idea 03:03:55 music by code 03:03:57 :) 03:04:04 so the way you write music is by writing forth 03:04:46 that's something i'd like to do in colorforth. 03:04:51 yeah, that is nice, but an old idea. 03:05:17 virl: really? except for the primitive qbasic PLAY I havent seen anything like it 03:05:18 look at csound or other music languages. 03:05:23 oh.. 03:05:26 heh 03:05:54 www.csounds.com 03:07:28 and it's hard to write music with only code. the problem of csound is, that it's not an interactive environment. 03:09:31 hrm 03:09:37 well, a front end can be made :) 03:10:46 arke: Nan" Tell him I said, 'hello' " 03:11:06 ^^ 03:13:53 yeah, and I do this frontend ;-) 05:19:11 virl: you are welcome to be the GUI guy for the project :) 05:22:43 you'd get money for it ^^ 05:57:11 I meant, that I code a frontend for csound. 05:57:40 but now I'm interested into your project? =) 06:12:59 :) 06:13:08 Think of csound but better and forth 06:13:09 ^^ 06:14:22 the most appealing part is that you can create any sound that you could ever think of creating 06:15:18 with generators and effects you create voices with which you create the music 06:15:55 256 total voices, 256 total generators, 256 total effects 06:17:48 iirc, csound is the most advanced software synthesizer I have ever seen. to develope this piece of software it takes more than 10 years. 06:18:04 no it doesnt 06:18:09 also, we have the users help 06:18:17 the users can create plugins in the form of forth source 06:18:43 but ok, if you do something which is better than fruity loops, then it will be nice. 06:18:45 Fat chance you'll get a lot written that way. :) 06:19:32 arke, and I meant csound with 'to develope this piece of software it takes more than 10 years' 06:19:40 sry, wrong time ;-) 06:20:06 FL Studio has alot of features with the worst interface, and you cant extend it easiy except for VST and even then its only one part 06:20:26 if I keep and sell bakend and front end separate, theres the most to be gained 06:20:42 virl: interested? :) 06:20:47 virl: its money ^^ 06:21:41 money, hmm.. ok. 06:22:17 Yay. :) 06:55:55 --- join: PoppaVic (~pete@0-1pool46-80.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:56:45 Mornin' 06:56:51 Hi 06:59:23 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:36:43 --- quit: Robert ("Dig the anachronism.") 08:00:15 --- quit: cmeme (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:00:15 --- quit: skylan (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:00:15 --- quit: Klaw` (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:02:34 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 08:02:34 --- join: skylan (~sjh@dialup-216-211-4-230.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 08:02:34 --- join: Klaw` (~Klaw@c-24-22-53-0.hsd1.or.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:03:42 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-cf78e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 08:10:59 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:13:47 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3577323.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 09:32:11 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (~jenni@CPE0000e812679b-CM000a7362da55.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 09:32:42 Hi, solar. 09:32:57 g'day robert. 09:32:59 how's life? 09:33:01 (the name is jen, btw.) 09:33:18 Not on IRC. 09:33:27 hi solar_angel, why the namechange? :) 09:33:29 --- quit: KB1FYR (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:33:33 well then this is my new nick on irc. 09:33:42 arke - different phase of my life... 09:33:44 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@d-66-63-85-222.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 09:34:00 so what does Amanita_Virosa mean? 09:34:12 it's the scientific name for a particularly nasty mushroom 09:34:40 so you went from solar angles to nasty mushroom 09:34:47 Those are used to get rid of careless mushroom eaters. 09:34:55 * Robert just had some cantarells. 09:34:58 are you interpreting mushroom in the traditional sense or in the 1337 script kiddie sense? 09:34:58 hehehe 09:35:09 Robert: :) 09:35:19 You should stick to mushrooms that are easy to identify. 09:35:30 Robert - A. Phalloides does it more often than A. Virosa... 09:35:48 and A. Virosa is quite easy to identify :) 09:36:22 Amanita_Virosa: Phalloides is harder to confuse with champignons. 09:36:28 (or however you spell that) 09:36:39 Now, Phalloides, that is a very interesing name for an eating mushroom 09:36:53 it's not an eating mushroom 09:37:12 err, 09:37:18 i meant, growing in the wild mushroom 09:37:21 Amanita_Virosa: Do you often pick wild mushrooms? 09:37:24 Robert - err... are you sure? Virosa is a pretty distinctive white mushroom 09:37:28 as opposed to, growing in warmth mushroom 09:37:29 no, i'm quite allergic to mushrooms 09:37:39 Amanita_Virosa: When it's large, yes. 09:37:44 so the deadlier the better :P 09:38:11 :P 09:38:37 there are, like, two Amanita mushrooms that won't kill you dead. 09:38:46 the edible one is hard to identify correctly 09:38:53 the other one is A. Muscaria 09:38:59 which is quite poisonous, just not lethal 09:39:00 Those are pretty. 09:39:04 (hallucinogenic though) 09:39:16 Amanita_Virosa: ooh fun. 09:39:20 i've heard it's a really, really bad trip tho 09:39:25 More poisonous than hallucinogenic. 09:39:35 i've heard that 09:39:36 heh. 09:39:49 no amatoxins though, so they won't kill you unless you're unlucky. 09:40:17 Still nothing you want to eat. But it's a nice lesson - the prettiest mushrooms around are poisonous. 09:40:29 hehehe, true 09:40:30 If something looks nice, stay away from it. 09:40:50 and don't eat little brown mushrooms. 09:41:03 they're nearly impossible to identify, there are hundreds of species, and a few of them are amatoxin-containing 09:41:09 Including girls. Unless you dont value your possessions and money. >:) 09:41:27 Amanita_Virosa: Some spieces are pretty easy to identify. 09:41:36 Robert: species, muahah! :) 09:41:46 Amanita_Virosa: I think it's part of the Cantarellus family, but we used to pick some of them. 09:42:13 Amanita_Virosa: Not sure about the English or Latin name of the actual spieces, though. Not VERY tatsy, but OK. 09:42:56 hehe 09:43:05 i just stay away from mushrooms. 09:43:34 But you flirt with them on IRC. 09:43:45 nobody flirts with me 09:43:54 its because I'm an ugly mushroom 09:43:59 :( 09:44:10 You're not poisonous, just not edible. 09:44:14 lol 09:44:20 Ouch. 09:44:27 :( 09:44:51 not even the hairy italian girl with about half the teeth of normal people likes me 09:44:58 i am teh ugly 09:45:12 scary. 09:45:21 i need to get glasses, that should make me look sexy 09:45:41 like robert, he has glasses and ergo is sexy. according to some, i wouldnt know about guys. 09:46:06 You should stop pasting every stupid comment you have ten times, because that's a real turnoff. 09:46:48 i wonder if the number of heterosexual women in the room is so slight that we'll start to see the army effect. 09:47:50 The room? You mean the IRC net. 09:48:11 well, there are a few in other, more general rooms... i think. 09:48:22 unless we're all lesbians, anyway. 09:48:27 I know two more... neither of them is hetero. 09:48:29 i suppose that's possible. 09:49:05 * Amanita_Virosa nods. 09:49:24 And I wish the army effect would take over the armies. Guys fucking each other are way better than guys killing each other. 09:49:33 Except in the eyes of the US government. 09:50:31 *lol* 09:51:56 (to be fair, in the eyes of all or most arab governments as well) 10:01:09 "I couldnt kil him sir, .... he was just GORGEOUS!" 10:02:11 That guy would face jail time for refusing to kill someone he likes. Very good. 10:02:42 Wecome to the USA. 10:02:49 I am so fucking glad I'm out of there 10:03:23 Yes, you're now in the home country of anti-militarism. 10:03:47 anti-militarism? 10:03:57 Amanita_Virosa: Germany. 10:04:02 oh 10:04:27 You know, in the USA some teacher had sex with her not-yet-18 year old student, got pregnant had a baby, got arrested and went to jail for 10 years for statuatory rape, then when she came out of jail she married the kid and lived with him and their baby happily ever after 10:04:51 ya, but that's messed up on all sides 10:05:17 They defend morality. 10:05:17 She wasnt that old, late 20s when it happened 10:05:28 so, really, not that bad 10:05:41 the thing is, the kid was like 2 months or so away from being 18 10:05:52 oh, i guess it's not the same case i heard about then 10:05:59 yet she was tried and CONVICTED of statuatory rape, I repeat, RAPE, because it was consensual, right? 10:06:07 there was another case like it... the student was like 15 and she was like 30. 10:06:10 but still 10:06:17 well, there was another one where the kid was like 13 and she was early 30s 10:06:31 They're also detaining small kids with no charges. 10:06:32 yeah 10:06:36 For years. 10:06:46 Robert - isn't that called "school"? 10:06:58 Amanita_Virosa: No, that's part-time jail. 10:07:10 oh. 10:07:22 One of he neighbor schools in the USA literaly had JAIL BARS ON THE GATES AND BARBED WiRE 10:07:25 I am NOT joking 10:07:28 it certainly seemed involuntary and torturous though 10:07:28 And in less than two weeks we can celebrate the proper use of WMD on civilians. 10:07:45 Robert: ß???? 10:08:01 arke: 6th of August. 10:08:12 Robert: ...oh, ww2, rght? 10:08:18 Hiroshima. 10:08:23 aah 10:08:49 Remember the justification of that use: to save our soliders. 10:09:00 yup 10:09:10 Remember Saddam's use of gas against the Kurdish rebellion: to save our soliders. 10:09:10 and I guess in hindsight, it did save people overall 10:09:24 Heh. 10:10:06 * PoppaVic sighs 10:10:07 I can't understand how the political circus keeps spinning. 10:10:11 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 10:10:17 haha. 10:10:22 I bet he likes bombing people. 10:10:36 i like bombing rocks. 10:10:51 Or maybe he feels threatend when I rant. Ranting is HIS job. 10:10:53 I like throwing grenades at innocent hostages in first person shooter games 10:11:01 Robert: Haha, no kidding! 10:11:46 i haven't made any explosives in years... 10:11:53 i should blow up some rocks sometime 10:11:58 Ever tried exposing snails to flamethrowers? its fun, i tell ya 10:12:00 What did you do? 10:12:13 Or make, rather. 10:12:27 nice, controllable, stable low explosives. 10:12:41 nitrate-fuel mixes of various types mostly. 10:12:55 I had a large chunk of rock. I driled 4 linear holes in it and put one of those small firework mortar thingies in each 10:13:02 split itin half :) 10:13:09 :) 10:13:32 Better than the acetone peroxide kids play with here, I suppose. 10:13:34 oh, and a WD-40 bomb that launched a tennis ball all the way across the street :) 10:13:49 acetone peroxide? 10:14:17 Some tricyclic compound of that sort... Very unstable. 10:14:32 Don't remember the exact structure. 10:14:39 oh 10:14:49 that... sounds.... err... 10:14:59 have i mentioned how much i hate unpredictable chemicals? 10:15:09 Made by mixing H2O2 with acetone with an acidic catalyst. 10:15:16 i've had enough semiserious incidents with chlorine... 10:15:26 What happend with it? 10:15:36 releasing large volumes of gas, mostly 10:15:48 How did you produce it? 10:15:57 worked like a piston engine too, it was cool ... used a coffee can, and made a piston that locked at a certain point, filled it with wd-40, heated it so it became gaseous, which didnt take much, then compressed it to the lock, then put the tennis ball on it and heated it 10:16:04 enough different ways that it should disturb me 10:16:23 tuning my circuit board etching system 10:16:34 the slightest wrong move and *poof* you're in a green cloud 10:16:43 That sounds pretty bad. 10:16:54 I smelled it once, and that's enough for me. 10:16:55 it's not pleasant 10:17:06 chlorine is a well-behaved toxic gas though 10:17:19 it smells so aweful that you're not likely to get poisoned by it unless you're stupid 10:17:21 Heavy and not under disguise? 10:17:31 exactly 10:17:50 i wanna make a small trilobed reciprocating eletric motor/compressor 10:17:54 if you have a chlorine spill, even a major one, you have enough forewarning that you can get out of the environment before you start getting suffocated 10:17:58 Yes. I'd hate fooling around with more evil gases. 10:18:09 unless you're talking a *major* spill, anyway 10:18:30 but once you're talking about dumping tens of thousands of litres of toxic gas, you're screwed no matter what you do 10:18:42 i probably had several multi-litre spills myself tho 10:19:06 Heh. That contaminates a lot of air. 10:19:14 Do your neighbors like you? 10:19:18 lol 10:19:23 i moved 3 or 4 times since those experiments 10:19:36 A good thing I suppose. 10:19:40 i had a proper fume hood, a gas barrier, and an evac procedure 10:19:57 i was set up for those accidents (with one exception) 10:20:11 exception being? 10:20:30 exception being an unexpected reaction in the wrong room 10:20:41 heh 10:21:26 there's a reason i don't screw around with the really dangerous chemicals 10:21:44 when it comes time to screw around with them, i'll probably build a teleglovebox and do it all that way 10:21:53 I love the concept of diesel engines 10:22:07 I'd like to build an elecric diesel gun that runs off WD-40 :) 10:22:45 ... acetone peroxide is seriously bad news. 10:22:50 * Amanita_Virosa is just reading up on it 10:23:15 Amanita_Virosa: I can't help getting a bit worried about how sure you seem to be that you WILL end up messing with "really dangerous chemicals". What are you planning? 10:23:32 whats something that will explode at relatively low pressure? 10:23:33 Amanita_Virosa: And yes. Someone had a kg of that under his own bed. 10:23:42 as in, likr 4:1 or something .... 10:23:52 probably needs extensive heating first 10:24:07 Robert - manufacturing of integrated circuits. 10:25:14 Amanita_Virosa: You're serious about that? What do you expect to be able to do? 10:25:35 small-scale integration 10:25:42 plain diffusions at first 10:25:49 i'd like to be able to do epitaxy eventually though 10:25:52 and silane is NASTY 10:26:15 I know very little about IC manufacturing. 10:26:31 well okay 10:26:40 Enough to know I won't attempt to do it. 10:26:42 well, 1970's-era technology, basically. 10:26:57 I have a 1969 book describing it. 10:27:01 anybody else think an electric compressing diesel-based gun would be cool? 10:27:05 it only takes about $10k in equipment (assuming no scrounging or homebuilding, which can seriously drop the pricetag) to make basic IC's. 10:27:37 A serious drop from $10 seems like a good idea though. That's a lot of money. 10:27:41 "only", my dear, I can buy 5 cars with that 10:27:51 Considering you're talking about a hobby project. 10:27:58 --- join: crc (crc@1Cust5331.an1.phl18.da.uu.net) joined #forth 10:28:01 Hi. 10:28:06 Hi crc. 10:28:34 hi Robert, arke 10:29:31 well, i'm pretty serious in the 'hobby' realm. 10:30:34 and a lot of the stuff involved there is good for other stuff too 10:30:57 Such as? 10:31:55 --- join: crc2 (crc@pool-70-110-186-227.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 10:32:17 well, the vacuum equipment can be used for lots of other things 10:32:18 --- quit: crc (Nick collision from services.) 10:32:19 --- nick: crc2 -> crc 10:32:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 10:32:25 Ah, yes. 10:32:34 oooh neat. i have to be careful not to get acetone into my etch tanks 10:32:37 Do you think you can produce ferrite cores as well? 10:32:38 or they might blow up :P 10:33:02 hrm... ferrite cores aren't that hard to produce... you just need a high-temperature kiln 10:33:36 I was thinking about the Apollo guidance computer. With some NOR ICs and a bunch of cores, you're there. 10:33:55 Then you'll only need to build a saturn V rocket and find 6 suicidal space geeks. 10:34:06 *lol* 10:34:21 Er, my mistake. 2 of them. 10:34:39 * Robert is getting too used to the large shuttle crews. 10:34:39 well okay, making basic IC's or some cores or something is several orders of magnitude easier than making a saturn V. :P 10:34:54 Yes, but you got to start somewhere. 10:34:59 And making a rocket would be very cool. 10:35:28 I'm working with signal processing right now, hoping to be able to produce some probe one day. Perhaps not launching it into space, though. 10:36:00 ah. neat. :) 10:37:02 If you ever manage to produce somewhat reliable ICs, I'd love a few to build a computer. I assume you'll do that as well? 10:38:14 build computers, you mean? 10:38:16 i do that already 10:39:14 hrm... i wonder if i could use an LCD in a photoreducer to make IC's without dedicated masks 10:39:17 that'd be neat. 10:39:34 it'd mean i could make random IC's for cheap, so long as they were the same package 10:39:48 so i'd probably make, say, a 14-pin DIP process 10:39:54 and then just make everything as a 14-pin DIP 10:40:24 I mean using home-made ICs. 10:41:56 I went to a particle accelerator in Hamburg where they had a small computer museum as well. Some pretty neat memories, a BIG board with hand-wired ICs and a bunch of core memories. Some nice-looknig tapes as well. 10:42:00 well when i have homemade IC's, i'll obviously make a computer with them. 10:42:15 That's what I thought. 10:42:17 i also have a few things i want to try with regards to core memory. 10:42:29 i think i may have an inkling of an idea about how to make them in sheets 10:42:35 rather than hand-winding the individual cores 10:43:06 it'd be really funny making a fundamental breakthrough in an obsolete technology. 10:43:12 Yes... 10:43:39 You'd probably be one of very few core memory manufacturers. 10:43:49 hehehe :) 10:43:55 there's not really any demand anymore 10:43:56 it's funny 10:44:00 * Amanita_Virosa is a bit of a retrogeek 10:44:06 No demand? 10:44:13 You think you're the ONLY retrogeek? 10:44:15 well who wants core memory anymore? 10:44:24 Heh. Look around. You're in a Forth channel. 10:44:25 * crc does 10:44:27 well okay, some retrogeeks might pay a mint for new core memory with driver ICs 10:44:54 i could always try to put a nickel layer or somesuch similar silliness into an IC 10:45:05 make integrated core memory :P 10:45:06 Amanita_Virosa: That's what all manufacturing is about, finding someone crazy enough to buy. 10:45:12 hehehe :) 10:45:41 well, i'm planning to go into custom electronics (i call it 'electronic hotrodding') for the next while... 10:45:47 custom electronics in custom assemblies 10:45:52 with cool paint jobs and the like 10:45:53 Is there something else you could easily magnetize? I'd like attempting to build a small core memory, but miniature cores are a bit rare. 10:46:16 there's lots of other things i could magnetize. 10:46:42 Anything that's practical for a hobbyist without your insane motivation? 10:46:56 hrm... probably not? 10:47:01 steel wire would be worth a shot, i'd think 10:47:54 (i might actually be a 'professional hobbyist' soon... contract engineering is fun :P) 10:48:35 ^^ 10:49:01 the more complex the stuff i can do, the more people will want to get me to do it 10:49:14 i imagine that when i can do one-off IC's for a fraction of the cost of a big fab, it'll get noticed 10:49:39 (i plan to very meticulously set up my IC stuff for prototyping... like using an LCD in the photoreducer :P) 10:50:10 Even (relatively low-quality) SSI? 10:50:38 the quality might surprise you after even a very short time 10:50:46 Of course it's Cool(tm), but as you say, I can't imagine anyone but hobbyists using them. 10:50:52 i mean, it'll be state of the art circa 1975... 10:51:10 but after the first few dud batches, i expect my quality to be decent 10:51:16 Yes. I don't mean low-quality as in unusable, just 741-ish. 10:51:25 that's surprisingly useful 10:51:40 a 741-grade process is still sufficient for lots of things 10:51:54 analog ICs 10:52:03 it's not really worth it for digital, excluding hobby use 10:52:11 but a custom analog IC... that's worth its weight in gold 10:52:34 But you won't be able to produce very large quantities. So the usefulness is still a bit limited. 10:52:59 hey, if someone wants very large quantities, i'll scale it up a bit. 10:53:08 i'll still be able to produce a wafer at a time if necessary 10:53:10 Buy a few koreans? 10:53:22 (my wafers will probably only be a couple inches across, but that's alright) 10:54:40 well, it's like the old joke... how do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time. 10:55:03 the trick to achieving an unreasonable goal is to set a string of reasonable goals leading up to it 10:55:31 so first, i'm going to learn to weld 10:55:39 then i'm going to make some vaccuum equipment 10:55:49 then i'll cathode-sputter myself a few small mirrors 10:56:07 maybe make a telescope or a microscope or somesuch, just for fun 10:56:31 Hm, that's also a good idea. 10:56:34 i'm already working on building an induction heater... so i'll make a little mini zone refiner 10:56:47 and screw around with purifying various materials 10:57:18 then figure out boule-drawing. it's not just useful for silicon, after all, and drawing corrundum boules will have immediate usefulness 10:57:31 i've got jeweller friends who'd kill for a ruby boule from time to time 10:57:51 anybody wanna hear my newest song? 10:57:56 If you make it I'll truly admire you, but I tend to be a bit pessimistic. 10:57:59 you write music, arke? 10:58:09 indeed 10:58:15 well Robert... i've succeeded at lots of huge projects this way... 10:58:20 as I dont have a guitar, its jus FL stuff 10:58:22 but its really good :D 10:58:32 sure arke, send it this way then 10:58:42 Robert - you should see my screen-printing equipment 10:58:45 I fail with most things I do, there's little use in bothering to try. 10:58:52 full vacuum table with parallel lifting, high tension screens, the works 10:58:52 whats at your dot email? 10:58:58 arke -dcc it? 10:59:07 I refuse to use DCC. 10:59:17 right, i should say the screen printing equipment *that i built from scratch* 10:59:20 ^ 10:59:33 it started life as a pile of random wood, particle board, and steel bar stock 11:00:05 Maybe I should move out of here. 11:00:17 Amanita_Virosa: email? 11:00:20 oh right, and i came up with a pressure frame for stencil making, and a frame holder to hold that frame up... 11:00:47 move out of where, Robert? 11:00:54 Where I live. 11:01:00 why? 11:01:35 I don't know... don't feel comfortable around people. 11:01:47