00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.07.22 00:19:00 --- log: started forth/05.07.22 00:19:00 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 00:19:00 --- topic: 'Forth: One language, many dialects. #forth - general forth discussion. #c4th - ColorForth. #retro - RetroForth. #c4th-ot - social channel. #1xforth - a secret channel for 1xforthers. #concatenative - the category of language that forth belongs to (sorta). Robert is a cry baby. Awww.' 00:19:00 --- topic: set by arke on [Sun Jul 17 10:57:40 2005] 00:19:00 --- names: list (clog saon KB1FYR @crc onetom Snoopy42 swalters OrngeTide madwork_ ccfg virsys slava skylan saon|smgl I440r nanstm madgarden virl Klaw` hrmpf sergacity cmeme warpzero ianp) 00:44:28 --- join: aum (~aum@60-234-138-239.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 01:52:47 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:00:55 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 02:04:42 morning all GMT+2 people 02:19:56 --- join: Snoopy42 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-158-194.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 02:24:58 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@rrcs-24-242-160-169.sw.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 02:29:30 in real applications Java seems to be much more slower than perl/python. 02:40:09 --- quit: I440r_ ("Leaving") 03:10:53 --- quit: slava (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:20:00 --- join: crc (crc@pool-70-110-132-188.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 04:01:24 --- join: LuckyPhil (~philh@CPE-203-45-202-159.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 04:54:36 --- quit: aum (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:57:06 --- join: aum (~aum@60-234-138-239.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 05:11:58 --- quit: aum (Remote closed the connection) 05:34:07 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-cf78e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 05:52:36 --- nick: madwork_ -> madwork 06:14:49 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-62-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:15:50 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:18:01 --- join: PoppaVic (~pete@0-1pool67-70.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:18:26 Mornin' 06:20:48 hello 06:21:24 howdy 06:40:21 --- quit: LuckyPhil ("leaving") 06:43:29 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 06:48:01 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:48:11 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-68-93-114-206.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:49:18 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 07:11:06 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-58-183.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 07:11:46 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:23:43 --- join: sproingie (foobar@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:28:49 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 07:50:51 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:51:36 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@92pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 07:51:59 Hi 07:54:32 hey 08:17:57 --- nick: saon -> _cdsaon 08:21:08 --- join: PoppaVic (~pete@0-3pool157-72.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 08:28:29 hmphf 08:29:52 --- nick: _cdsaon -> saon 08:40:52 PoppaVic, for what did you need a library for common c prototypes? =) 08:52:57 --- quit: OrngeTide ("gone") 08:59:06 --- quit: Robert ("ILITERATE") 09:19:30 --- join: JasonWoof (~jason@Herkamire.student.supporter.pdpc) joined #forth 09:19:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 09:20:24 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-cf78e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 10:06:15 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 10:12:08 --- join: roliver (roliver@roliver.user) joined #forth 10:15:21 stupid 6502. shouldnt be so complicated :p 10:16:27 It's complicated? 10:16:42 a lot of little quirks 10:16:56 especially the nes modified version 10:17:40 also, i cant find anything on where to start from boot 10:18:13 i know the rom, code part, needs to be loaded to 0x8000, but not certain whether the cpu actually starts there as well, or somewhere else first, etc etc 10:19:09 i'll get it though... 10:19:30 the cpu is probably not the hardest part, that ppu (graphics) system is rather complicated 10:25:39 qFox: you making an nes emulator? 10:28:58 well... taking a long shot it seems 10:31:08 seems all nice, but i'm not certain yet whether the manner of documentation i've encountered thus far will be sufficient for me to do it 10:31:42 on top of that, it appears that there have been a LOT of hacks used by NES programmers to get certain things done 10:32:00 (even the 'simple' things like double horizontal scrolling splitscreen are in fact hacks) 10:33:34 from what i've read they use the two name tables (holding the 'images') and alter them between the VBLANK period, timing is essential, etc. just one of the many glorius things they used... you need to take all this in account 10:34:01 since its probably not possible to create an EXACT replica, emulation wise 10:34:27 (but yeah, it has been done, but that doesnt mean i can do it on my own) 10:38:05 fun 10:38:22 timing issues might make it trickier 10:38:28 why are you writing an nes emulator? 10:38:42 well, a while back i had my 'speed videao period' :p 10:38:58 and the current emulators are missing a few things for that scene 10:39:15 and i figured it would be a nice challenge... at least i was right there 10:39:30 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 10:40:19 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-222.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:40:21 but i kinda thought it would be easier then this though. my bad though :) 10:40:37 one too many thoughs there... 10:41:09 huh? 10:41:11 also, the cpu itself still (now) contains bugs :p 10:41:12 speed video? 10:41:21 yeah, you know, play a game as fast as possible 10:42:02 in this particulour scene anything was allowed. the theoretical fastest way to finish a game was the goal (so that means 1 fps is allowed) 10:42:18 as long as it used the original rom and the game at normal speed was in fact the normal game 10:42:32 (yeah yeah, 'original' rom... you know what i mean, a real one, not hacked) 10:43:55 anyways, i did try to create a small disassembler (well, just some program that would translate the machine code to asm code), but i seem to even fail at that. 10:44:17 a proper file format layout seems to be non-existent, or the description is. 10:44:31 (for a nes rom) 10:45:46 so this speed thing... as few secconds of play as possible? or in as few frames as possible? 10:46:08 or are you just making a recording of your movements, as you play in slowmo, that when played at normal speed would be as close to optimal as possible? 10:47:01 both goes actually. and yeah 10:47:29 you know how the random on (at least earlier) consoles comes from player input right? 10:47:41 the game is only as random as the buttons you push 10:47:45 --- part: roliver left #forth 10:48:17 so you can actually record all those keypresses (one status per frame) and replay this over and over again and get the exact same 'video' 10:48:51 although they do indeed make real video's from them for the general public 10:49:03 (also because for those keyprintsavegames you would need the rom as well :p) 10:51:04 guess i'll have to try and read sources to see how to boot up a rom 10:53:35 ahh, so you want an emulator that you can save and replay those keypressfiles and let you play frame by frame in certain bits or whatever 10:53:44 yar 10:54:14 interesting 10:54:22 but i'll settle for an emulator for starters ;) 10:54:27 what games in particular to do you want to do? 10:54:38 personaly, kirby's adventure 10:54:49 i did that game about 1/3rd 10:54:55 pretty damn fast for the standard that was set 10:55:06 haven't played that, should I? 10:55:16 1/3rd of what? 10:55:24 but at a certain point i got very very tired having to replay the entire video over and over again to get to where i was 10:55:26 of the game 10:55:39 well... kirby was like mario on the NES 10:55:57 slightly less popular 10:56:14 (its also a new character, mind you :) 10:56:18 new=nes 10:56:21 ahh, so you need an emulator that can save state and position in the keyfile 10:56:52 yeah, well and more. but you know thats all add-on. once i have an emulator i'll add those things 'easily' 10:57:07 right 10:57:35 btw http://www.kirbykirbykirby.com/ 10:57:36 :p 10:58:37 heh 10:58:41 sorry no flash allowed 10:58:53 the frontpage is flash? 10:58:57 its a mere image :\ 10:59:15 --- quit: Robert ("Ignore *") 10:59:15 oh well i didnt mean the rest of the site, just to show you the image, hoping you'd at least recognize him :p 11:00:02 oh, yeah, that's what I thought kerby looked like 11:00:17 I seem to remember playing something with him that was too easy 11:00:38 :) it was a nice game, one of the first games i got for my NES back then 11:00:58 lets see if i still have that speedvideosite 11:02:21 hm, it was http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/ but that seems to have died 11:02:47 http://speeddemosarchive.com/GameList.html 11:03:53 its pretty fun to watch the games you used to play at normal speed almost perfect 11:13:59 hehe :) you can buy some on DVD 11:14:22 ui, kirby. that was a very cool character somehow. 11:17:27 hehe :) just watched some of the battletoads 11:17:35 my favorite nes game 11:18:01 said something about transferring from VHS 11:18:15 that mean someone played this well on a console? 11:18:23 or did they videotape their monitor? 11:19:25 there's all kind of different compos really 11:20:02 some, the 'real' speedvideo's, are played on real consoles under very very strict rules, taped on vhs and recorded on a computer (or recorded directly) 11:20:09 no emulation involved though 11:20:28 there are other scenes though where emulation is allowed, and other (all kind of) rules apply 11:22:31 fun 11:22:35 you should see the taped speedvideo of metroid prime 11:23:56 I got so I could beat battletoads 11:24:01 but it took a while :) 11:24:10 hehe 11:29:46 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 11:31:02 --- join: danniken (CapStone@ppp-70-249-61-161.dsl.ltrkar.swbell.net) joined #forth 11:31:13 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-222.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:52:47 heh, well, I learned something about battletoads 11:53:11 when he had to hover in the water just above the spikes he just started punching 12:25:41 i never played it :p 12:59:48 --- quit: saon ("work") 12:59:54 --- quit: saon|smgl ("me too") 13:03:12 you should :) 13:03:19 it's a little hard, but lots of fun 13:03:31 and as you play it, you find that you can get good at those hard parts 13:03:54 the first level is a bit ordinary, but don't be fooled 13:27:22 --- join: tathi (~josh@tathi.bronze.supporter.pdpc) joined #forth 14:14:50 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 14:45:17 --- quit: danniken (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:19:45 --- quit: KB1FYR (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:28:54 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@d-66-63-85-222.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 16:03:38 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-68-93-114-134.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:19:00 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:08:24 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:29:03 --- join: Robert__ (~snofs@c-cf78e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 18:29:53 --- nick: Robert__ -> Robert 18:48:07 --- quit: Robert ("leaving") 20:26:00 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-222.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:40:38 --- quit: virsys (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20:50:15 --- join: virsys (~virsys@or-65-40-222-2.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) joined #forth 20:53:52 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 21:17:26 --- join: saon_ (1000@c-66-177-224-222.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:34:13 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:29:54 --- nick: saon_ -> saon 22:31:28 --- join: saon_ (~saon@c-66-177-224-222.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:32:04 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 22:45:59 --- quit: JasonWoof (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:02:15 hm, forth written in 72, then a standard in forth-83, then DPANS-94 ... looks like it's time for a new standard 23:07:53 --- join: LOOP-HOG (~chatzilla@63.105.22.119) joined #forth 23:07:57 anybody home? 23:19:21 BYE 23:19:22 --- quit: LOOP-HOG ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.1/20040707]") 23:26:23 --- join: saon (~saon@c-66-177-224-222.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 23:26:32 --- quit: saon (Client Quit) 23:26:44 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-222.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 23:46:53 --- quit: sproingie ("Konversation terminated!") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.07.22