00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.06.13 00:49:57 --- nick: fca -> Frek 01:07:33 --- join: _ziggy_ (~user@0x503ead56.bynxx8.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) joined #forth 01:07:58 <_ziggy_> In GForth, is it possible to actually get input from STDIN or am I imagining? 01:37:18 <_ziggy_> Hmm.. 01:38:36 --- quit: _ziggy_ (Remote closed the connection) 02:35:17 --- quit: nothingmuch () 03:49:00 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 05:05:49 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123821pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:59:08 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:14:41 --- join: I4404__ (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 06:17:23 --- join: _ziggy_ (~user@0x503ead56.bynxx8.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) joined #forth 06:20:44 --- join: PoppaVic (~pete@0-1pool64-165.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:21:11 Mornin' 06:22:54 Good morning 06:43:13 --- quit: I440r_ ("Leaving") 07:27:24 Interesting... Circular logic again raises it's ugly puss 07:29:14 You're just having all kinds of fun with this project, huh? 07:30:35 yeah, and debating in ##C as well... 07:31:04 <_ziggy_> How do I compile FORTH code into Linux executables? 07:32:18 depends on the variants turnkey, metacompiler, image-files, etc 07:33:24 do you have a Forth that you're using now? 07:34:33 <_ziggy_> PoppaVic: I was poking around for native compilers and only found gforth, which is as far as I know an interpreter... 07:35:05 gforth is portable, andyou CAN generate turnkeys, but I am not sure how right now - I've never bothered 07:35:17 I do know it is documented 07:35:29 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 148 (No route to host)) 07:36:54 <_ziggy_> So, let's refine my question - I would like to turn FORTH programs into ELF executables. 07:37:52 few I know of even know about ELF 07:39:28 <_ziggy_> Few whom? 07:40:12 few forth-distro 07:40:46 <_ziggy_> OK. Which ones do? 07:41:59 there is a whole web out there 07:42:39 <_ziggy_> I've been poking around for quite some time and couldn't find anything, so I assumed people here have had some experience with it. 07:43:01 very few would 07:43:24 Most forth-fanatics are totally against .o, .a, .lib, .so and such 07:46:56 yeah, there aren't so many native-code generating forths 07:47:19 IsForth can turnkey, but is direct threaded 07:47:19 well, remember: ELF is not "native" 07:47:29 and doesn't link to libraries 07:47:44 win32forth also has turnkey abilities 07:48:00 searching for "forth turnkey" on google will yield some results hopefully 07:50:02 consider also alternatives like ATLAST and FICL 07:50:10 ..which run the other direction 07:51:06 --- quit: saon|smgl (Remote closed the connection) 07:52:58 --- quit: Al2O3 (Remote closed the connection) 07:56:51 hmm 07:57:49 hey 07:58:53 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@c-24-218-95-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:58:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 07:59:32 Hi Herkamire 08:00:35 hi 08:00:43 Hey, you got some time? 08:01:06 I'm curious.. ANd wonder if you also use shells much. 08:01:13 suppose. what's up 08:01:17 like bash? 08:01:21 sure 08:01:26 yeah 08:02:13 I'm glaring at my sample (do nothing) input-file.. and wondering how an experienced forther would beat it up to reconcile forth with shelling. 08:03:01 forth doesn't call programs the way the shell does 08:03:01 Currently, I rely on flex & bison to PREFILTER the input, and I'm wondering how ugly and much trouble it would be to bypass the both of them. 08:03:14 I know.. And that too is an issue 08:03:29 hold a sec... 08:03:31 what sort of input? 08:04:05 http://rafb.net/paste/results/TEA6O858.html 08:04:16 above is my experimental input that works. 08:05:39 interesting 08:06:05 My issue appears to be nearly 100% the fact that I'm trying to allow for 'embedded' delimiters of one or more chars 08:06:45 why do you want a forth shell? 08:06:55 it won't be forth-as-forth 08:07:31 I like the idea of extensibility and the way forth can 'time-slice' such that we preproc, compile, execute 08:08:09 (the latter includes compiled-words that themselves compile) 08:10:40 what I am, I think, looking for is a better lexer for a forthlike-system. My current lexer and parser tries to enforce generic syntax and rules 08:11:44 I will honestly and freely admit that a whitespace delimiter is dead easy. 08:12:46 yeah 08:12:50 you should write your own parser 08:12:56 I have 08:13:19 well, it's a flex/yacc engine, but still 08:14:31 I mean in forth 08:15:16 ahh 08:15:22 | Section 102 of this bill should cause worry to all Americans, past and present: | 08:15:25 | | 08:15:28 | 1. IN GENERAL Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland | 08:15:31 | Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, | 08:15:35 | in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious | 08:15:37 | construction of the barriers and roads under this section. | 08:15:38 which, to me means C - or lower 08:15:41 | 2. NO JUDICIAL REVIEW Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or | 08:15:43 STOP IT 08:15:44 | nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction | 08:15:47 | "(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision | 08:15:50 | made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1)"; or "(B) to | 08:15:53 | order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage | 08:15:56 | alleged to arise from any such action or decision." | 08:15:59 http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/smith-h1.html 08:16:01 this was PASSED 08:16:11 I hate those pastes 08:16:26 "C - or lower"? huh? 08:17:36 I'm writing this in C. C is all - in this universe - what you are suggesting is that the semantics WORK in lex/yacc, but we can do better - which is fine. Further, that we can also dispense with them and write it directly. 08:18:23 sorry, but this is kindof important. the Senate passed a bill saying the Secretary of Homeland Security (yes this one person) can wave any law, and that (s)he can't be stopped by any court (including say, the supreme court) 08:18:57 I already know about how stupid the feds are I invest in powders and bullets and primers. 08:19:05 PoppaVic: I thought you were doing something in forth 08:19:10 ahh 08:19:51 Herkamire: no. I test ideas in gforth and amd writing a parallel tool/module/lib in C for writing a new shell and metabuilder shell around THAT 08:20:00 I know the government is pretty messed up. but this is creating a dictator. and not an elected one 08:20:14 Herkamire: trust me, it's nothing new 08:20:44 um, yes it is 08:20:50 no 08:20:57 I'm old enough to know better 08:21:07 ..and Dad taught history 08:21:17 ..also, I am paranoid 08:21:26 ok, when have he gad a government official that doesn't have to obey laws, and is exempt from the courts, and there's no system in place whatsoever for getting this person out of office 08:21:30 ? 08:21:34 RICO was just the most notable of many years of control 08:21:47 the president is pretty close to this, but he can be impeached 08:21:51 meanwhile, I am coding.. SO... Ideads? 08:21:59 "ideas" 08:23:33 I don't understand what you're looking for 08:23:44 sounded to me like you were asking how a forther would handle the shell thing 08:23:51 answer one: 1) he wouldn't 08:23:52 I'm wondering similar. 08:24:03 Yah, I was afraid of that 08:24:07 answer two: write it from scratch in forth, parsing and all 08:24:17 impossible 08:24:28 three: write a new os that doesn't have this crap about quoting in the first place 08:24:43 what's impossible? 08:24:52 surely not writing a parser in forth... 08:25:11 I need a 100% interface to C. I also want to insure we can extend the language and use memory ala' C - not forth-fakeouts 08:25:38 I'm beginning to consider ficl, although I am getting my code to compile. 08:25:39 huh? 08:25:51 what do you mean "interface to C"? 08:26:34 In my universe: ASM and kernel are baseline, C acts like generic asm. Forth and other stuff should ride atop. 08:26:52 ride atop C or asm? 08:27:02 C, preferably 08:27:07 ok 08:27:43 Further, in discussion ala' C - I am coming to learn the goddamned stds there are as bad or worse than ANS 08:27:58 hehe 08:28:01 Usually, none of this bothers me - I just code. 08:28:07 difference being, with forth you don't have to use them :) 08:28:17 However,I am getting tired of all the half-assed stds 08:28:54 what do you mean "100% interface to C" that doesn't make any sense to me. who's interfacing to C? and how do you interface to C? 08:29:10 ok, let me pause and consider wording.. 08:31:40 We already know the sys/kernel is prolly asm - and syscalls; we know ASM is not even platform independent; we know C is less dependent than ASM, but platform still bites; we KNOW most Forth are bothered by bypassing the sys(calls)/kernel and libs by coding directly. I am looking for a way to approach FOO[C[ASM[kernel]]] where FOO is an interpreter/shell/ 08:32:40 My goal/project is a PORTABLE shell, under a Metabuilder - to offer a damned dencet alternative to GNU autoshit 08:33:15 ok, what's a metabuilder? 08:33:59 Metabuilder is a supra-make, relying 100% on the shell we build - not sh, or perl, or bash, or whatever - all written in C 08:34:25 I follow you mostly. I don't see how you can bypass syscalls though. that's you can have libs do them for you, or you can do them directly. only way to bypass them is to write your own OS 08:34:27 the shell is prolly NOT suitable "as is" by itself. 08:34:52 ok 08:34:58 right.. I have to accept kernel/syscalls, hence my C/libc baseline 08:35:11 ok 08:35:18 and you want to write this all in C 08:35:56 Yep, we write all the C we can to get to the extensibility of the minish. Then extend Metabuilder OVER minish 08:36:11 gotcha 08:38:19 See why I sorta' spin around a lot? ;-) 08:38:57 yeah 08:39:16 So far, in over 20 years, I've seen nothing to compare to forthish vocs/dicts/modes 08:39:39 otoh, I also have never seen anything better/more-portable than C 08:40:01 your goal is to make cross-platform C development easier right? 08:40:12 so, it depends on the level you want, and the extensibility 08:40:19 *sigh* 08:40:34 Well, sorta' - I see no BETTER way than C, at this time 08:41:05 I get nothing but argument, most often, when I mention layered-translators to folks 08:41:08 I'm just not seeing the point very well. perhaps because I've never even begun to need autoconf/automake 08:41:28 but I haven't ever written a terribly big unix program in C 08:41:28 sure, suffering it a few times can clarify yer world-view 08:41:33 ahh 08:41:36 that too 08:42:10 I think they're horrible, from trying a few times to fix other peoples autoconf scripts 08:42:18 You understand the API versus ABI, right? 08:42:44 I guess 08:42:58 well, I'm not that clear I guess 08:43:02 I know api 08:43:07 api is like libc, ABI is like learning where the hell the compiler and platform are 08:43:20 ahh 08:43:20 application-binary-interface 08:43:53 So, API _would_ be fine - except a lot of the ABI affects it, and you have to dance well to learn about it all 08:44:13 right 08:44:28 autoshit relies on sh[perl-doze]+m4+shit 08:44:45 I always thought it was wasteful how overy time I go to install something (well most of them) they run autoconf, and it runs all these complex tests, to find out things about my system that never change 08:44:52 I want to get the basics all into as portable a C as possible. Then extend 08:44:59 such as the fact that it is Big Endian, or the size of my "int"s 08:45:02 right. 08:45:11 or that my compiler is gcc 08:45:17 That shit should have been saved local on the INSTALL of autoshit 08:45:34 "default compiler" 08:45:39 seems like all you'd need to straighten that out is some sort of config file or database or something that just has that information in it 08:45:49 - remember, overrides are fine - but we have to play well with others 08:46:00 some of the will need tests, as they can change, but... there must be a better way :) 08:46:04 Yes, a db is part of it all 08:46:34 THIS, then, is what has obsessed me for over a year of code and several years of frustration. 08:46:40 I've installed things where autoconf took longer than make 08:46:47 yep 08:47:27 If the 'forth' was portable, the compile itself would have taken like 1/10th the time of calling outside programs/scripts 08:48:27 So... I'm looking at a specialized TIL for the 'minish' which is REQUIRED and non-negotiable by the 'metabuilder' 08:48:46 extensions would be mere extensions - and coded as such 08:52:09 --- join: saon|smgl (~saon@c-24-129-91-106.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:52:17 What would be hillarious is a C-compiler written in a forth-dialect that generates asm ;-) 08:55:46 I really don't understand where forth fits into your shell project 08:56:03 is the shell language that you're creating forth-like? 08:56:07 the idea of vocs/defs and threaded-code/pcode 08:56:18 "namespaces" 08:56:48 I got pissed off that only forth well-handles vocs AND defs 08:57:08 the rest yak about "namespaces" and are so incomplete it hurts my eyes 08:57:44 maybe I need to work on some bigger projects 08:57:48 yep 08:57:58 seems like such a waste of time though 08:58:05 Or projects you'd like to collab over 08:58:08 I've never had the slightest interest in namespaces/vocs 08:58:33 oh, my - yes... vocs/namespaces and context-sensitive defs matter a LOT 08:58:52 the experience would probably come in handy, since I'm creating a big project 08:59:23 thing I'm not sure of though, is that if you join a big collaborative project, you have to buy into their way of thinking about it. 08:59:31 which can be aducational, if it's a good way 08:59:42 The thing is... no "shell" does it well in the least, and no forths I have ever seen consider "the world is C over ASM" 08:59:56 but what happens is you spend soooooo much time thinking of the problems that way, that you stop being creative about it 09:00:13 you can't realize anymore, that those problems that you can solve only exist because you're doing the project that way 09:00:18 Dude, recall that I code for me - and try to write shit for others 09:00:43 I see an issue and I try to think how we can "do better" 09:00:55 huh? 09:01:05 "code for me" "write shit for others" 09:01:52 I am unpaid, broke, busted - and code to statisfy me. Meanwhile, most of my code is written to encapsulate/wrap/handle an issue others will smack into. 09:02:02 satisfy 09:02:11 yeah, that's the difference between us. I see an issue, and think how I could accomplish my goals without having that issue at all 09:02:19 sure 09:03:08 If I get too bollixed, I retreat to reloading/shooting, reading or leatherwork. I'm paid the same either way - zero 09:03:59 I didn't solve the "autoconf problem" I just go about my coding in a way that I don't need it 09:05:29 sure 09:05:54 I want a solution, though - and it's a pandemic issue that DESERVES a solution. 09:06:25 * Herkamire looks up pandemic 09:06:42 ok 09:06:44 prevalent. viral. growing. disimproving 09:07:15 You know what the most common answer is? 09:07:23 to what? 09:07:25 "Intall the binaries and work with it" 09:07:29 install 09:07:42 I can agree on a few binary installs 09:07:54 "Use autotools and requirements" 09:07:57 answer to what question? 09:08:06 requirements make shit more and more ugly 09:08:22 answer to: I want to make this portable 09:08:47 that's hinting at a question 09:08:49 oh, then we have the utf* and m4/autoshit issues 09:08:54 Right 09:08:59 it's generically silly 09:09:26 There ARE certain builds that are kernel+platform specific 09:09:32 presumably you are insinuating that the question is "how do I get X to run on Y and Z platforms?" 09:09:48 But, between those and I"i want this generic", life has gone to shit 09:10:04 absotively 09:10:29 Personally, I NEVER build kernels anymore 09:10:54 ..too dangerous, and the docs and installation-menus are too fubar 09:11:01 you're always going to run into problems if you try to solve the "general problem" or make something "compatible"/"portable" (without saying what sort of things you want it to be compatible with) 09:11:09 there's no such thing as code that works on anything 09:11:13 Righto 09:11:37 the correct answer to "how do I make this portable?" is "portable to what?" 09:11:46 So, I want to presume no more than C and enough file/mem shit to manage ansi or maybe posix 09:12:01 even that's still a bit spacey. everything is "portable" it's just a matter of how much work it is 09:12:14 I know 09:12:21 "what would you like to port it to?" might be a more appropriate response 09:12:32 Personally, I have to presume at least gcc and good ol' make. 09:12:57 ..and THOSE two presumptions are really iffy 09:13:34 BUT, what we must insist on is mostly those in terms of "given a binary-install" 09:14:22 Past C and make, we can't RELY on much of anything. 09:15:34 Now, yes... I can envision a binary-install of the "minish" based on some form of Forth. And the Metabuilder based on that - but in those cases we are seriously tripping into "metacompilation" 09:17:13 there's some project to create some sort of standard build environment for unixes 09:17:24 several, last I looked 09:17:32 I dunnowhich you mean. 09:17:47 I'm trying to remember 09:17:52 standard places for files 09:17:57 FHS 09:18:00 certain libs that should exist 09:18:09 dead-end 09:18:14 standard way of accessing the C compiler etc 09:18:20 nobody reads the FHS 09:18:39 yeah, they sweat the little-shit and have no answers 09:19:48 1) forget the FHS - the best can be said is SOME distro use it as a guideline; 09:20:17 2) There is no std 'shell' - and everyone expects whatever they are to act like a GP language 09:20:22 no, it wasn't the fhs 09:20:48 well, trust me: the FHS talks dirs/files - and no one seems to care 09:20:57 gp? 09:21:02 general purpose? 09:21:03 general-purpose 09:21:22 fhs makes an impact 09:21:31 I've heard it mentioned quite a bit 09:21:33 sure does - if they read it 09:21:41 I've heard people move files to a different place because of it 09:21:54 yeah, but why was the move mandated? 09:21:58 distros 09:22:16 eh 09:22:28 I think because people want it to go where it should 09:22:34 because there's reasons behind fhs 09:22:48 people partition their harddrives in hopes that they will be used correctly 09:22:48 I dunno about you, but me... I expect my baseline install to binary-install and build up a basic system. 09:23:00 and the little partitions for settings and stuff won't fill with eg huge log files 09:23:07 PROBLEM IS: we are really not hip to "basics" 09:23:22 yeah, been there, done and heard that 09:23:23 I'm not into binary install 09:23:27 ns 09:23:42 folks use it all the time to create an install CD 09:24:02 I never cross-compile or make runnable cd's, so it is not my field. 09:24:19 I've installed just about everything on my box from source 09:24:30 it's a bit slow, but I know that if I want to change something, I can 09:24:34 you can't, sorry to say 09:24:51 can't what? 09:24:57 At some point, there is a binary install that was cross-compiled. I just pray I never need them 09:25:13 what do you mean install? 09:25:29 at no point in installing linux is it required to copy a binary executable file onto your HD 09:25:47 load a cd, boot the machine, run an install program - prolly 30-50% is binary for that machine 09:26:05 look, I'm not using redhat or debian 09:26:30 Herkamire: pay attention: it's all CRAP w/o a binary specific to the cpu 09:26:35 I booted the cd, then started compiling stuff from source 09:26:40 yep 09:26:46 fine 09:26:57 I'm not saying I didn't USE binaries, but I didn't INSTALL them 09:27:16 you didn't DEMAND them, you have no idea what was really installed 09:27:34 how do you know? 09:27:38 trust me: a lot of cross-compiled binaries are installed 09:27:41 * PoppaVic sighs 09:27:56 you don't have the slightest idea how I installed linux 09:28:01 this is gonna' be one of those days 09:28:18 ok, yer a magician. Glad for you. Thanks for the time 09:28:22 yeah, if you keep making asumptions and using broad general terms as if they meant something 09:28:50 what's so hard to imagine about having a bootstrapping environment on a CD, and using that to build binutils, fileutiles, gcc kernel etc? 09:30:18 maybe I coppied some binaries onto my HD when I did it. But you must see that it's not required. 09:30:23 You tell me EXACTLY what was a bin-install, and in what order, and how: then tell me I am wrong - otherwise, you trust like everyone else on the planet. 09:30:36 sorry, yer wrong 09:30:47 answer my question 09:31:00 answer mine 09:31:07 you didn't ask one 09:31:10 I see no question marks anywhere 09:31:16 geezus 09:31:24 speak clearly 09:31:26 ok. Enough.. I call it a day. 09:32:02 if you can't understand the concept of running linux on a CD, and using that to compile and install stuff from source onto my harddrive... 09:32:34 I don't know. you won't seem to respond to that possibility 09:32:42 apparenly you cannot conceive "cross-compiled" let alone binary, that's ok 09:32:57 what the hell does cross-compiled have to do with it? 09:33:24 are you really telling me you don't understand what I am saying? 09:33:44 no. 09:33:52 tell me what part of this process involves installing binaries 09:34:02 1) order a gentoo or whatever cd through the mail 09:34:04 2) boot it 09:34:11 3) format the HD, and mount it 09:34:16 4) download source code 09:34:23 ok, then I apologize and I don't want to get involved.. It took me decades to get here, and typing a synopsis is just beyond me today. 09:34:30 5) use the build environment on the CD to build the source code, and install it onto the HD 09:34:37 yep 09:34:38 6) boot the HD 09:34:48 I know how it works, I do it as well. 09:35:02 I just never bothered to GENERATE such a cd 09:35:15 I'm not asking you to explain your way, I'm asking you to say where in my process I'm installing binaries onto my HD 09:35:24 so? 09:35:28 1 and 2 09:35:33 I don't consider things on a cd to be INSTALLED 09:35:34 and prolly 4 09:35:39 they are 09:35:47 they are binaries in a closed space 09:35:51 ok, define "install" 09:37:05 dude, I am not going to play, ok? You are relying on cross-compiled, executable code. And the installs are SOMETIMES the same, but given a good base already installed from binaries, you CAN "compile" a system. 09:37:36 you're saying things, but you refuse to define your terms 09:37:43 I'm not being a dick, mind you.. I just don't have the time and inclination to play. 09:38:02 Herkamire: yeah, it's all magically "compiled locally" - fine. 09:38:08 bye 09:38:12 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 09:38:32 * Herkamire likes magically compiling things locally 09:40:07 --- nick: Raystm2 -> babstm 09:41:10 well, that's downloading source code is "prolly" installing binaries 09:41:14 rrp 09:41:42 well, that's the first time I've been told that "download[ing] source" code is "prolly" "installing binaries". 09:41:58 --- nick: babstm -> nanstm\ 09:42:07 or that ordering a CD in the mail constitutes "installing binaries" 09:42:30 --- nick: nanstm\ -> nanstm 10:19:01 hmm...think I'm glad I missed that conversation. 10:20:36 yeah, wasn't very educational 10:21:04 I just wish I could figure out what he's trying to do. 10:21:11 except at some point I should get it through my head that people who say completely illogical things in a room full of logical people, and _still believe it_ are impervious to logic, and I should ignore them 10:21:32 I'm sure it only makes sense in his own little world 10:21:39 he's solving problems that don't really exist 10:21:50 don't be silly. you're just hearing different things than he's saying. 10:21:54 and vice versa. 10:22:16 I agree he isn't terribly clear about expressing himself 10:22:43 I have to say, I think automake is pretty scary. 10:22:46 A small, hand-wavable flag, it is stained the official colours of the Bologna and World Peace mission -- which is to 10:22:50 say it is a nice shade of blue with red bolognas drawn all over it. 10:22:52 It appears to have something written on it. 10:22:55 You read the small blue flag with bolognas: 10:22:58 World peace with bologna! 10:23:15 But I don't really have any problems with autoconf, other than that it uses m4. :) 10:23:30 And that it's often used badly. 10:23:50 I've had trouble fixing ./configure scripts 10:24:14 yeah, people don't seem to bother figuring out how it's supposed to be used before they go ahead and use it. 10:24:28 and since it uses m4, it can be really hard (for me anyway) to debug. 10:24:57 seemes overly convoluted 10:25:23 I've pretty much come to the conclusion that anything that deals with all the different platforms that autoconf handles will be convoluted. 10:25:37 iirc it's an m4 script which generates a shell script wich reads itself into memory and changes it's own source code then runs that 10:26:01 oh, I know it'll take a certain amount of complexity. 10:26:11 but I just think it's two many layers of parsing/mangling of the code 10:26:23 oh, yeah, it could certainly be done better. 10:26:48 but...it's possible to write really nice simple configure.in (or whatever the file is called). 10:27:34 * tathi can't quite figure out why people don't seem to do that ever 10:29:13 --- quit: warpzero ("leaving") 10:29:21 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 10:30:00 --- quit: OrngeTide ("bye") 10:30:50 heh 10:39:47 --- join: OrngeTide (~orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 10:53:41 cool 10:54:16 that first page you linked to says that with small units, their stirling coolers are smaller than conventional units 10:54:26 but looks like their bigger when it goes above 500-700W 10:54:58 kinda weird to me that it's measuring by watts instead of cooling power, since theirs is more effecient 10:55:35 oops, switched channels 10:56:15 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 12:11:50 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-24-1-126-202.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:28:20 --- join: snoopy_1711 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-134-003.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:28:44 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 12:28:46 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 12:41:25 --- quit: I4404__ ("Leaving") 12:49:08 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 12:49:23 No package 'ORBit-2.0' found 12:49:25 grr 12:49:32 wrong channel :P 12:58:07 :D 13:08:02 --- nick: nanstm -> tiff 13:15:00 hey 13:15:18 teh hies 14:01:13 --- quit: hrmpf_ ("whatever u do, do it right!") 14:23:29 MICHAEL JACKSON NOT GUILTY!!! WTF!!!? 14:24:35 it's now he sings quietly to himself "You know I'm bad I'm bad - you know it!" 14:27:31 haha 14:27:38 arke: he loves the children 14:27:46 uh huh 14:27:50 oooh 14:27:55 watch him get shot on live tv! 14:27:56 :P 14:28:01 ...i wish 14:29:00 my housemates are blasting michael jackson right now 14:30:33 oh noes 14:36:45 now they're blasting NWA 15:04:48 arke si teh spammer! :P 15:27:12 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 15:28:07 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 15:30:00 --- join: Snoopy42 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-134-159.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 16:25:47 --- quit: Frek ("Client exiting") 16:25:57 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h208n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 16:49:53 --- quit: saon|smgl ("Lost terminal") 18:43:28 --- join: thinfu (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 18:43:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thinfu 18:43:48 --- part: thinfu left #forth 19:16:47 --- join: Sonarman_ (matt@adsl-64-171-255-142.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 19:21:49 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:30:21 --- quit: Sonarman_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20:11:31 --- join: LOOP-HOG (~chatzilla@sub22-119.member.dsl-only.net) joined #forth 20:11:36 --- quit: OrngeTide ("bye") 20:11:36 hi 20:53:03 --- join: OrngeTide (~orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 21:06:48 does Mark Slickers have a webpage? 21:06:57 somebody wanted me to link him into my directory 21:09:52 yeah 21:09:56 google 21:09:58 :D 21:10:04 its oakland.edu something 21:13:42 www.oakland.edu/~maslicke/colorforth/ 21:13:52 its down right now though 21:16:34