00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.06.11
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01:39:04 <nothingmuch> what is the interpretation model where every word is the address of other words called?
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01:41:40 <arke> Direct or Indirect threading
01:42:30 <nothingmuch> thanks!
01:42:34 <arke> :)
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06:25:25 <PoppaVic> mornin'
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07:57:42 <PoppaVic> The level of activity here is sort of worrisome
07:58:30 <PoppaVic> It almost suggests Forth is dead/dying
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08:00:49 <Herkamire> heh
08:00:51 <Herkamire> yeah right
08:01:37 <crc> PoppaVic: the other forth channels tend to have more activity :)
08:01:37 <Herkamire> people chat here when they're _not_ working on forth
08:01:59 <PoppaVic> Yeah, I know these things - but a newbie would not
08:02:11 <PoppaVic> Further, it still sorta' depresses me.
08:04:03 <tathi> We usually have more conversation when there's a newbie here who has questions
08:04:18 <Herkamire> like yesterday
08:04:59 <tathi> I think it's partly that we already know about each others projects mostly.
08:05:55 <tathi> doesn't take a lot of conversation to keep people up to date.
08:05:57 <PoppaVic> could be
08:06:10 <PoppaVic> but newbies seem very rare
08:06:54 <tathi> yah, we usually seem to get one about every month or so
08:07:08 <PoppaVic> I'm bothered that it looks like the 'newbies' head off to python, php, and whatever
08:07:37 <PoppaVic> When I started out, forth was usually the first solution post ASM
08:07:54 <Herkamire> yeah, it's not as popular
08:07:59 <tathi> yeah, but when you started out, you probably didn't have python, php, ruby, etc.
08:08:07 <PoppaVic> nope, we didn't
08:08:33 <Herkamire> I think forth would be an excelent first language
08:08:38 <PoppaVic> but, having glared at them, the only commonality that seems apparent is that they can compile building-blocks
08:08:45 <Herkamire> but I think it rarely is a first language
08:08:52 <PoppaVic> I always felt I'd like to teach Forth, yes
08:09:00 <tathi> it seems like the right kind of newbies often find Forth
08:09:16 <PoppaVic> From forth, you can interactively and compile-time test many ideas
08:09:35 <Herkamire> I haven't figured out what has people decide to try programming
08:09:54 <PoppaVic> I know what decides them: homework and classes
08:09:59 <Herkamire> some people start by makeing websites, some by scripting their irc client
08:10:26 <tathi> err...programming classes?
08:10:34 <PoppaVic> almost invariably, it is either homework/coursework, OR a fool leaping in with a blindfold
08:10:50 <tathi> hmm.  I don't see that.
08:10:59 <PoppaVic> Forth - as near I can tell - is no longer even mentioned in school
08:11:08 <tathi> seems like most of the good people get into it on their own
08:11:12 <tathi> no connection with school or whatever.
08:11:21 <PoppaVic> tathi: that's not much help
08:11:58 <tathi> PoppaVic: I know, I'm just saying
08:12:38 <PoppaVic> Personally, I'd love to reconcile Forth (the underdog) with C (the outdated black-sheep)... At the least, it'd piss the new prophets off in lovely ways
08:13:33 <tathi> you mean something like ATLAST?
08:13:41 <PoppaVic> I never really KNEW, but I would bet that ancient Turbo Pascal and C did something similar to forth
08:13:44 <tathi> or more like a Forth compiler that works well with C
08:14:09 <PoppaVic> I dunno much about ATLAST, since talking about Forth is freaky because of the useless, idiotic stds
08:14:41 <PoppaVic> tathi: I'm thinking that "C calling conventions" are a given, like main()
08:15:03 <PoppaVic> that .o, .a .so and (whatever it is macosx uses for plugins)
08:15:37 <PoppaVic> ..and that libc and libm are ALMOST as irritating as "platform issues" that are often a bitch to resolve
08:16:10 <PoppaVic> ..As a rule, forth is more compact than most compiled lang.
08:16:35 <PoppaVic> ..Further, it's only slightly slower - and most chips today make that just silly to consider
08:16:40 <Herkamire> I don't think school has much of anything to do with good programmers
08:17:08 <PoppaVic> Herkamire: I already know that - I've clothes older than some of them. BUT...
08:17:33 <Herkamire> one of my favorite things about forth is that it's compiled right before/as you run it.
08:17:38 <Herkamire> I hate linking
08:17:38 <PoppaVic> sure
08:17:47 <PoppaVic> linking is a non issue
08:17:48 <Herkamire> and it's totally unnessesary
08:17:55 <PoppaVic> Incremental compiling is interactive
08:18:06 <PoppaVic> no sir, I now disagree
08:18:26 <Herkamire> my forth recompiles it's self entirely from scratch in about the time it takes linux to startup a program that linuxs to stdc
08:18:58 <Herkamire> what is the advantage of linked libs vs INCLUDES
08:18:59 <PoppaVic> There are several reasons to compile/link: 1) Proprietary|closed source; 2) time/sharing.
08:19:21 <PoppaVic> there is almost zero reason to compile and link over and over
08:19:24 <Herkamire> 1) I'm not interested in proprietary
08:19:28 <PoppaVic> and forth does exactly that
08:19:30 <Herkamire> what's 2) ? I don't get it
08:19:46 <Herkamire> what do you mean "compile and link" ?
08:20:05 <Herkamire> (I don't get the "and link" part)
08:20:08 <PoppaVic> Herkamire: I know, hence I commend it to you. Think in terms of *nix and sharing libs. Or plugins.
08:20:29 <Herkamire> what are you talking about?
08:20:42 <PoppaVic> 3/4 of the job is done early. THe lib is present in swap or whatever, all the exec is going to do is relink/ref
08:20:57 <Herkamire> I'm talking about the difference between INCLUDEing a source file, or linking to a lib. accomplishes the same thing. I'm saying what's the diff?
08:21:15 <PoppaVic> big diff: the space/copies/sharing
08:21:15 <Herkamire> you're saying linking would be faster?
08:21:30 <Herkamire> because in my experience that is not the case
08:21:32 <PoppaVic> Herkamire: you don't use C, do you?
08:21:34 <Herkamire> linking is not fast
08:21:45 <Herkamire> I've done many years of C
08:21:49 <PoppaVic> ok
08:21:54 <PoppaVic> linux? bsd?
08:21:55 <Herkamire> run some timing stuff
08:21:57 <Herkamire> linux
08:22:01 <PoppaVic> cool
08:22:44 <PoppaVic> Shared libs are a way to get shot done NOW, based on shit we've had around for awhile. Recompiling - to my mind - is mostly a waste of time.
08:23:00 <PoppaVic> it's like running autoshit/make over and over to run ls -al
08:23:48 <PoppaVic> I noted yer forth the other day with that guy... You perfer to run it like we would /usr/bin/sh foo
08:24:47 <Herkamire> shared libs are slow to load
08:24:49 * crc can use shared libraries in RetroForth under Windows, Linux, and BSD
08:24:52 <Herkamire> here's some timing info
08:24:56 <PoppaVic> I've heard the arg before
08:25:11 <Herkamire> this C program takes 4ms to run on my box: int main (argc, argv) { return 0; }
08:25:33 <PoppaVic> That's not much of a program
08:25:55 <Herkamire> starting up my forth, which completely recompiles it's self from scratch (assembler, compiler, editor, etc) and then exits, takes 5ms
08:26:23 <PoppaVic> well, for starters, loading an editor is extraneous
08:27:01 <PoppaVic> plus,I dunno' yer timing-tests - I'd be hard pressed to believe them.
08:27:45 <Herkamire> if I put the exit right at the entry point of my forth, it takes 2.5ms
08:28:31 <Herkamire> cat "int main (argc, argv) { return 0; }" > exit.c; make exit; time exit; time exit; time exit; time exit; time exit;
08:29:28 <PoppaVic> hmm
08:29:33 <PoppaVic> linux again?
08:29:59 <Herkamire> linux
08:30:17 <PoppaVic> Would you even attempt to write a *nix in forth?
08:30:27 * crc would
08:31:06 <PoppaVic> I wish we could... THat, or we need .o/.a/.so and whatnot capability
08:31:27 <PoppaVic> ...and I've seen how well Plan9 has gone over
08:32:12 <Herkamire> god you're annoying to talk to
08:32:18 <PoppaVic> Would you have drivers load as source as well?
08:32:27 <PoppaVic> Herkamire: don't mean to be.
08:32:50 <Herkamire> well, listen to my point, stop changing the subject, and don't tell me that you don't believe me
08:32:54 <PoppaVic> I'm just sort of fixed in my ways
08:33:53 <Herkamire> ok so if my forth quits instantly, it takes 2.5ms and if it compiles almost everything (about 50kB of source code I think) it takes 5ms
08:34:04 <PoppaVic> Herkamire: to repeat your reports, I'd need to install your system and run your code. All I have iswhat I'veseen over the years, ok?
08:34:22 <PoppaVic> and I sure as HELL agree 4 or 5 ms is nada
08:34:24 <Herkamire> so 50kB / 2.5 = it takes about 20kB source compiled per ms
08:34:50 <Herkamire> yeah, it's small, because I'm running a program that does crap.
08:34:51 <PoppaVic> you wrote yer forth in asm? no libc?
08:35:06 <Herkamire> firefox takes what? 13 secconds to get started?
08:35:10 <Herkamire> yes
08:35:15 <PoppaVic> ok, thought so
08:35:32 <PoppaVic> No idea, I use safari for the web and mozilla local
08:35:43 <Herkamire> ok, so I figer the first 2.5 ms is linux loading the elf into memory, setting up the memory space and all that
08:36:01 <PoppaVic> Or relinking, sure
08:36:06 <Herkamire> in the time it takes the C program to do nothing, I compile about 30kB of source code
08:36:17 <PoppaVic> yeah, pretty hot
08:37:44 <PoppaVic> I keep trying to envision a C/Forth paradigm-shift... THe language.. The stack(s) themselves canNOT be all that fast.. The lexing? The parsing? both? I must be missing something mentally.
08:38:00 <Herkamire> I don't have a way of doing a good test, but I think I can compile source faster than linux can dynamically link it
08:38:09 <PoppaVic> interesting
08:38:15 <PoppaVic> very, very interesting
08:38:27 <tathi> err...you mean "in the time it takes linux to dynamically link to the standard libs", you compile about 30KB of source code", I think.
08:38:31 <Herkamire> for forth to be fast it just needs a good optomizer, like any other high level language
08:38:43 <Herkamire> C uses a stack too
08:38:47 <PoppaVic> How would your forth deal directly with fs and such crap where I am used to dealing with libc?
08:38:59 <PoppaVic> everything uses 'a' stack
08:39:03 <Herkamire> tathi: yeah.
08:39:40 <tathi> but IIRC, the loader has a database of ALL the libraries on your system that it has to search through to do dynamic linking.
08:39:53 <Herkamire> PoppaVic: I believe we were talking about the difference between source files and lib files. what on earth are you talking about?
08:40:18 <tathi> oh, libc mostly just wraps the syscalls under *nix systems
08:41:02 <Herkamire> source vs libs does not effect how you do anything else
08:41:05 <PoppaVic> I'm trying hard to reconcile what I am thinking with what we do and are speaking about, Herkamire. Tathi is right, and I am wondering how much of that is an issue
08:41:19 <Herkamire> the differences are 1) speed (probably different) and 2) legibility of code
08:41:29 <PoppaVic> Herkamire: it DOES, goddamnit - I'm trying to reconcile systems over the kernel
08:41:57 <PoppaVic> The kernel is asm+c, the next layer is C
08:42:00 <Herkamire> PoppaVic: what does it effect
08:42:06 <Herkamire> no
08:42:11 <Herkamire> the next layer is syscalls
08:42:12 <PoppaVic> ..I'm trying to gete from (here) to there
08:42:27 <Herkamire> you don't access the kernel with C calling conventions
08:42:29 <Herkamire> not at all
08:42:36 <PoppaVic> OK, wait.. lemme' cogitate a sec
08:42:41 <PoppaVic> ...
08:43:05 <Herkamire> you access the kernel by setting some registers and causing a cpu exception
08:43:21 <PoppaVic> ...accepting *nix as is... Accepting libc over syscalls over kernel. Where does this leave 'forth'?
08:43:58 <Herkamire> kernel -> syscalls -> user-programs (including forth)
08:43:59 <crc> Herkamire: in FreeBSD you use C calling conventions in the syscalls
08:44:02 <PoppaVic> we would need to literally compile (yes, parse as well) Everything, right?
08:44:15 <Herkamire> crc: you don't branch to an address do you?
08:44:47 <Herkamire> PoppaVic: yeah, unless you do something like me where you don't parse at compile time
08:45:01 <PoppaVic> whoa- halt..
08:45:10 <crc> You push the args, do the interrupt and clean up the stack
08:45:13 <Herkamire> PoppaVic: do you have linux?
08:45:14 <PoppaVic> You generate intermediate-code?
08:45:33 <PoppaVic> yeah, a disassociated old box in the other room has debian
08:45:37 <Herkamire> crc: ahh, that sucks. a little simpler on ppc where there's enough registers for any syscall I've seen
08:45:42 <crc> The interrupt expects to be called from a dedicated function
08:45:58 <crc> So I have to push a dummy value before calling it 
08:46:07 <crc> FreeBSD is really closely tied to C :(
08:46:16 <PoppaVic> I expected that
08:46:22 <Herkamire> PoppaVic: no, no intermediate code. I just store the source words as a reference to a dictionary entry and a few bits to say what to do with it (compile, execute, define etc)
08:46:46 <PoppaVic> ahh, that is pre-parsed intermediate
08:46:52 <PoppaVic> I see what you mean now
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08:47:03 <PoppaVic> very stylish
08:47:10 <Herkamire> intermeedaite would be between two things...
08:47:12 <Herkamire> what are you saying it's between?
08:47:14 <PoppaVic> that is
08:47:28 <PoppaVic> herk, if the source itself changed, you'd redo, right?
08:47:46 <Herkamire> I think you're kindof missing the concept
08:48:03 <Herkamire> that IS the source
08:48:05 <PoppaVic> not really, I think we are talking on two or more planes
08:48:07 <Herkamire> that's how I store it
08:48:07 <Herkamire> that's how I edit it
08:48:21 <Herkamire> there is nothing to be parsed except keypresses
08:48:27 <PoppaVic> oh?
08:48:30 <Herkamire> parsing is done at edit time only
08:48:33 <PoppaVic> ahh
08:48:47 <PoppaVic> yep, planar differences
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08:48:57 <Herkamire> I don't see the point in seaching the dictionary over and over again for the same word
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08:49:25 <PoppaVic> OK, I gotta' look at yer forth is all
08:49:25 <PoppaVic> right,I agree - was my point
08:49:25 <Herkamire> I figure the editor aught to know what word it is. seems obvious to me, why shouldn't it be obvious to the editor
08:49:33 <PoppaVic> well, trust me - this observation is NOT obvious
08:49:42 <PoppaVic> It's a mindset
08:50:00 <PoppaVic> OK, bbiab
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08:53:06 <PoppaVic> wow.. sneezing is blowing out my brains
08:54:05 <PoppaVic> Herkamire: I can see why the 'colorforth' thing was mentioned the other day...Where is your tarball again?
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08:54:33 <crc> http://herkamire.com/jason/download_herkforth
08:55:22 <PoppaVic> OK, grabbing the osx version - thanks
08:55:51 <crc> np
08:55:55 <PoppaVic> 58.1k
08:56:12 <PoppaVic> Yeah, I understand the issue now
08:56:47 <PoppaVic> It'll take a few days or a week to see his precise stance
08:56:56 <Herkamire> there's a _lot_ of zeros in the binary
08:56:59 <Herkamire> working on that part now
08:57:07 <PoppaVic> Yeah, I expected such
08:57:18 <Herkamire> I don't have a complex stance.
08:57:40 <Herkamire> I'm just saying I don't think compiling this way is much different speed-wise than linking
08:57:49 <PoppaVic> See..? In MY universe you have textfiles, compilers, linkers, executables
08:58:05 <PoppaVic> I agree,if I understand what you are doing
08:58:07 <Herkamire> I like free software, and don't care to make it easy/possible for people to hide their source
08:58:26 <Herkamire> yeah, I don't like that stuff
08:58:33 <PoppaVic> and yet, you MUST allow for companies to make a profit
08:58:33 <Herkamire> especially the compilers and linkers
08:58:41 <PoppaVic> ..and for security
08:58:44 <Herkamire> services
08:58:51 <Herkamire> security through obscurity does not work
08:58:56 <PoppaVic> we can diverge there
08:59:10 <Herkamire> software as a commodity is BS
08:59:13 <PoppaVic> Meanwhile, I *like* ascii text
09:00:04 <PoppaVic> and I've learned to love .o - such that I write modules, generate a lib and just USE them later. BUT, you talk of editing as part of the compiling-process
09:01:20 <PoppaVic> Herkamire: how would your code work with a root-program that should never allow users to run, let alone see the source? What would you do?
09:01:29 <Herkamire> my stuff doesn't follow the paradigm of: 1) edit 2) compile 3) link 4) run
09:01:39 <PoppaVic> yes, know that now
09:01:42 <Herkamire> well, 3 happens for you
09:02:08 <Herkamire> what? why would I want to stop users from seeing source code?
09:02:24 <Herkamire> I might point out that the kernel you are using is completely open source
09:02:25 <PoppaVic> How would func or program foo not be available?
09:02:37 <PoppaVic> dirs and perms?
09:02:53 <PoppaVic> I'm just asking, it's a new mindset
09:03:08 <Herkamire> you're talking about when I write an OS?
09:03:23 <PoppaVic> if, but no... writing tools
09:03:48 <Herkamire> I don't get it
09:03:55 <PoppaVic> hmm
09:03:58 <Herkamire> you're asking how I could make something inaccessible?
09:04:03 <PoppaVic> right
09:04:07 <Herkamire> why?
09:04:11 <PoppaVic> ahh
09:04:15 <Herkamire> I could delete it ;)
09:04:18 <PoppaVic> imagine a multiuser system
09:04:25 <Herkamire> an OS
09:04:29 <PoppaVic> whatever
09:04:42 <Herkamire> yeah yeah, I wasn't planning on making a multiuser system
09:04:58 <Herkamire> I might later, but for now I'm focusing on making a system that's very good for a user
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09:05:06 <PoppaVic> You own it, we all are members/users - what stops us from having the access you have and waxing the machine?
09:05:31 <PoppaVic> you own it and crc is another root - same issue
09:05:34 <Herkamire> I'd either trust you, or I'd only allow you access within a protected memory space
09:05:47 <PoppaVic> how?
09:05:53 <Herkamire> protected memory
09:06:02 <Herkamire> kernel, all that jaz
09:06:08 <PoppaVic> ahhhh
09:06:18 <PoppaVic> the kernel written in asm and C drivers
09:06:26 <PoppaVic> ok, just checking
09:06:27 <Herkamire> what's with C?
09:06:37 <Herkamire> nothing to do with my forth will ever have anything to do with C
09:06:40 <PoppaVic> I dunno, but it is at least as prevalent as asm
09:06:42 <Herkamire> unless maybe someone else does it
09:07:00 <Herkamire> if I cared about prevalent I wouldn't be using forth
09:07:17 <PoppaVic> ok, that is Yet Another plane.. I understand
09:07:50 <Herkamire> I don't expect my system to become popular because of the language, I expect people will want to use it because it's nice to use
09:08:20 <Herkamire> and when people start tinkering, they will discover that it's nice to program in too
09:08:41 <PoppaVic> yep, I know the viewpoint
09:08:59 <PoppaVic> Won't HAPPEN, but it's an attempt
09:09:12 <Herkamire> I've seen too many cool looking languages that I had to dismiss because of user interface sort of concers
09:09:19 <PoppaVic> yeppers
09:09:25 <Herkamire> dylen or something like that took way way way too long to compile
09:09:42 <Herkamire> couldn't stand the squeak interface
09:09:43 <PoppaVic> hmm 'dylan', iirc
09:09:43 <Herkamire> etc
09:09:48 <PoppaVic> yep
09:09:50 <Herkamire> ahh, that looks right
09:10:16 <PoppaVic> I been around for years, but very little interests me
09:10:18 <Herkamire> you're language is cool and everything, but what's it like to sit and do the things you have to do to program in it?
09:10:25 <PoppaVic> right
09:10:32 <PoppaVic> and then portability
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09:10:50 <Herkamire> in dylan, you spend about half your time waiting for it to compile
09:11:04 <Herkamire> in C you spend about 2/3 of your time debugging
09:11:16 <PoppaVic> This is why I am flogging my Metabuilder(minish(c)) mess
09:11:31 <Herkamire> in herkforth, I spend about 3/4 of my time thinking about the problem and writing/rewriting code (which I find fun)
09:11:37 <PoppaVic> there is so much RIGHT about forthish code.
09:11:48 <Herkamire> and most of the rest of the time trying out my code snippets and testing
09:11:49 <PoppaVic> and there is almost as much in C
09:11:59 <Herkamire> only some of which is fun
09:12:48 <PoppaVic> My issue remains: it's ALL TRANSLATORS... EVERYTHING comes down to asm and an assembler. LIBS are handy and everything above the asm needs to EITHER generate the asm or generate for a lower language
09:13:14 <PoppaVic> in YOUR case, the asm parallels the icode of your forth
09:13:35 <PoppaVic> ..which I do not arfue, I'm just trying to place
09:13:39 <PoppaVic> argue
09:13:53 <Herkamire> yeah, I wish more peoples plans involved getting to asm
09:13:59 <PoppaVic> yep
09:14:09 <PoppaVic> we could merely translate and filter all over
09:14:22 <Herkamire> and I suspect that they usually don't because asm is complex, especially if you consider not just one asm, but all the architectures it'll want to run on in it's lifetime
09:14:35 <Herkamire> I've put some thought into portability
09:14:49 <PoppaVic> sure, but - iirc- forth asm is extensible and such
09:14:49 <Herkamire> (portability is often a naughty word around forthers, but I think about it anyway)
09:15:10 <PoppaVic> yes, I know the feeling - I was afraid I was alienating #forth
09:15:19 * crc often considers portability
09:15:23 <Herkamire> I'm not that into portability, but I suspect I'll have to port herkforth at some point anyway
09:15:49 <Herkamire> apple just announced they aren't going to make computers like this much longer
09:15:52 <PoppaVic> somwhere, somewhen, foobar needs to read BAR that generates MC that works on the whole system
09:15:57 <Herkamire> I'm heavy into optomization though
09:15:58 <PoppaVic> read/reach
09:16:08 <Herkamire> and I think I can tackle them together quite nicely
09:16:14 <PoppaVic> optimizing is ALWAYS a higher-issue
09:16:20 <Herkamire> both benefit enormously from an intermediate format
09:16:25 <PoppaVic> yep
09:16:49 <PoppaVic> ..and, my feeling is that ascii text is the best interm. format
09:16:57 <Herkamire> so I might do that (which would also be cool for the programmer who wants to make compiling words)
09:17:04 <Herkamire> heh
09:17:12 <PoppaVic> certainly
09:17:18 <Herkamire> I don't hold much with generating ascii, and then parsing it again
09:17:35 <PoppaVic> I've never understood all the horrors of libs and static/dynamic
09:17:42 <PoppaVic> I do.
09:17:43 <Herkamire> systems where you have complex code to generate something, that needs complex code to convert back into something sensable always drove me nuts.
09:18:09 <Herkamire> dynamic libs are complex. if you have good tools and you do it right it works. if not it's hell
09:18:15 <PoppaVic> let foo generate text to feed bar to feed snafu - let SPECIALISTS edit those outputs for local messes.
09:18:37 <Herkamire> gotta cook. bbiab
09:18:57 <PoppaVic> go for it, I'm still 1/2 deaf from all the sneezing
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12:05:22 <nothingmuch> Herkamire: ping
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12:41:12 <alexander_> yoh
12:41:44 <alexander_> if anyone wants them, I wrote code to generate TGA image output, last night
12:41:46 <alexander_> it's really fucking easy
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13:44:23 <Herkamire> nothingmuch: pong!
13:44:44 <Herkamire> alexander_: will firefox display them?
13:47:33 <Herkamire> grr, guess not
13:47:53 <Herkamire> I want a really really simple image file format that firefox will display
13:48:06 <Herkamire> eg not compressed, no checksum
13:55:49 <nothingmuch> Herkamire: got msgs?
14:32:32 <arke> Herkamire: bmp?
14:32:54 <arke> Herkamire: chuck wrote a bmp thingy in CF in 2 screens ... so you could do it in one or two in herkforth
14:34:55 <Herkamire> I want to experiment with generating an image file in javascript
14:35:10 <arke> Ooh cool 0xstuff
14:35:20 <Herkamire> for herkforth I'd just use ppm
14:35:30 <Herkamire> unfortunately firefox doesn't support ppm
14:36:03 <Herkamire> normally when I want to generate image files I output ppm format and pipe to pnmtopng
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16:38:19 <crc> hi all
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20:29:22 <alexander_> yoh
20:29:57 <crc> yoh?
20:30:20 <alexander_> yo + h
20:31:10 <crc> ok
20:32:01 <alexander_> what's going on?
20:32:15 <crc> finishing up my coding projects for today
20:32:35 <alexander_> nice
20:32:47 * crc added syscall support to rf8/dex4u, ffi to generic, and did some simple bindings for Allegro
20:33:33 <crc> It was a fairly productive day for me :)
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.06.11