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08:28:41 <I440r> yes! now im " <-- this close to releasing 1.16b for x86, ppc and fbsd!!!
08:33:52 <PoppaVic> That's great, if I can use the code from within or with C ;-)
08:39:01 <I440r> :)
08:40:02 <PoppaVic> I have this thing... I like to differentiate between source like .c and objects .o and then .a/.so/modules
08:41:21 <PoppaVic> ..and, of course - we also have the pcode/in-place (.com) code
08:41:57 <I440r> :)
08:42:17 <I440r> yea - lets see how many more levels of obfuscation we can add to the pot :)
08:43:50 <PoppaVic> yep
08:44:08 <PoppaVic> I'm really irked by the LACK of abstraction-levels
08:44:26 <PoppaVic> ..I been honking that for several years
08:44:46 <PoppaVic> 'obfuscation' is not the proper term, though
08:44:59 <PoppaVic> (trust me, I've SEEN obfuscation)
08:45:26 <I440r> from latin "ob" meaning intense, "Fuscare" meaning darkness
08:45:33 <I440r> or hidden
08:45:35 <I440r> or complex
08:45:38 <PoppaVic> I440r: iirc, yer package is written in asm?
08:45:50 <I440r> obfuscated is a valid word here :)
08:45:56 <I440r> yes its coded in asm
08:46:07 <PoppaVic> no, obfuscation has applicability, though
08:46:21 <PoppaVic> OK... and, also iirc: you got it to generate .o?
08:46:34 <I440r> but i use assembler macros so the object created is almost identical to that which the forth compiler would create
08:46:39 <I440r> why would i want .o ?
08:46:41 <PoppaVic> sure
08:46:47 <PoppaVic> ok, that answers me
08:46:51 <I440r> heh actually
08:47:16 <I440r> i plan on giving the comiler the ability to link into other projects but NOT to have other projects link to things it creates
08:47:54 <I440r> im not going to be creating linkable objects myself - if someone writes an extension and i might post it on my site tho :)
08:48:05 <PoppaVic> Here is my take on "the universe" - asm generates MC; shit should generate asm; shitshit CAN generate shit (to generate asm), ad-infinitum
08:48:45 <PoppaVic> I piss the C guys off when I mention this, let alone the lispers, oC and C# and C++ folks
08:49:15 <PoppaVic> ANd, for over 20 years it has been so obvious it hurts
08:50:36 <I440r> well i think asm is the only true programming language
08:50:45 <I440r> forth is a close second
08:50:47 <PoppaVic> I know that about you already
08:50:51 <I440r> imho nothing else counts :P
08:50:57 <I440r> and i mean that honestly
08:51:00 <I440r> NOTHING else counts
08:51:03 <PoppaVic> I disagree, but then - I'm an old fuck
08:51:08 <I440r> im 40 :)
08:51:15 <PoppaVic> I'm older
08:51:23 <danniken> Delphi Forever :)
08:51:28 <PoppaVic> my ass
08:51:31 * I440r thwaps danniken :)
08:51:47 <PoppaVic> There is a reason for generating .o
08:51:49 * danniken hands I440r a Scorpion
08:52:02 * I440r shoots the scorpion with his kimber
08:52:15 <danniken> hehe
08:52:25 <PoppaVic> absolutely anything can interface with anything if the calling-conventions are consistent and you can generate a .o
08:52:50 <PoppaVic> a kimber is overpriced, a Skorpion is a cute .32 toy
08:54:19 <I440r> no he means a live scorpion
08:54:26 <I440r> and kimbers are the best 45's for the money
08:54:30 <I440r> and not over priced at all
08:54:46 <danniken> ...these are a bit larger then a .32...  ;)
08:54:47 <danniken> http://www.tasp.net/ScorpOnHand1.jpg
08:54:53 <I440r> and i have two model 1907 32 savages
08:55:22 <PoppaVic> that's the pistols - pocket-pistols?
08:55:40 <Herkamire> gross
08:55:54 <PoppaVic> I disagree, of course, because I like 45s and have one - and not a 1911
08:57:30 <I440r> what model 45 do you have?
08:57:42 <PoppaVic> EAA
08:57:57 <PoppaVic> lil' brother has the old 1911 and variants
08:58:04 <I440r> witness ?
08:58:09 <PoppaVic> I inherited dads Eaa last year.. Very nice
08:58:17 <PoppaVic> yeah
08:58:33 <I440r> it kinda looks ugly to me but definatly looks like it would shoot well
08:58:39 <I440r> i dont like plastic tho heh
08:58:40 <PoppaVic> Strapping that almost-fits poly-grip to it was a whore
08:58:57 <PoppaVic> no, this is the metal version - not glock-like
08:59:06 <I440r> ah aok. glocks are tuppaware
08:59:17 <I440r> and polagonal rifling is the most stupid idea ive ever heard of
08:59:20 <I440r> and dangerous too
08:59:26 <PoppaVic> I gotta' adjust the sights, though: I have NO idea wtf Dad was seeing
08:59:32 <I440r> heh
08:59:32 <PoppaVic> not at all
08:59:43 <I440r> polagonal rifling IS dangerous
08:59:57 <PoppaVic> I had to fight apple-update
08:59:58 <I440r> take someone who doesnt know "DONT EVER SHOOT LEAD IN THIS" and... kaboom
09:00:08 <PoppaVic> poly-rifling is simple-minded and ancient
09:00:22 <I440r> polagonal rifling is ancient ?
09:00:26 <PoppaVic> yep
09:00:38 <PoppaVic> it's a bitch to machine, though
09:00:38 <I440r> lands and groves is the ONLY way to go. it grips the bullet
09:01:04 <I440r> ill never own a glock. i dont even want to shoot one
09:01:08 <PoppaVic> Well, I prefer Ballard over Microgroove, but poly is clean and if they HAVE the tech - use it
09:01:09 <I440r> not even remotly interested
09:01:33 <I440r> no because you cannot shoot anything except clad bullets
09:01:47 <PoppaVic> I've tried a glock - I was unimpressed.. For a guy with a glock & gunbelt walking all day, I can see the pt
09:01:48 <I440r> practicing is a requirement. do it cheaper and you can do it more often
09:02:04 <I440r> i carry my kimber and it never gives me problems
09:02:06 <PoppaVic> I use plated lead for my Eaa <shrug>
09:02:31 <PoppaVic> I don't plan on EVER shooting pure-lead
09:02:56 <PoppaVic> (I did my muzzleloading/C&B years ago)
09:04:06 <PoppaVic> Once I adjust the sights, I expect the Eaa - like all my other firearms - is limited to my Human Error
09:07:12 <PoppaVic> Handguns "accuracy" is odd, though.. I let Lil' Brother (and his contacts) test for max. With a scope, no one beats me in this family.
09:08:18 <PoppaVic> 'course, #2 son is beginning to emulate my techniques for reloading and testing, and both he and #3 son always play "Great White Hunter" cards on me ;-)
09:09:08 <PoppaVic> ..My feeling is: if I shoot it, it goddamned well better drop the hell dead - I am not limping thru a swamp to find them.
09:15:12 <I440r> brb - work
09:29:22 <I440r> best lead bullets are from oregon trails silver mining company
09:29:49 <PoppaVic> I just don';t use other than copper-plated lead
09:29:52 <I440r> their lead has silver content and is harder. they claim shooting their bullets through your gun will clean old lead out
09:30:05 <PoppaVic> I push vel too high to trust them, and I HATE cleaning up leading
09:30:09 <I440r> thats mostly what i shoot too
09:30:21 <I440r> blue wonder
09:30:39 <PoppaVic> damn... I can't rec - Rainier bullets, that's the name
09:30:52 <I440r> put that in your barrel and leave it 10 minutes and brush it, leave it for 10 and then clean it with a pad or 2
09:30:59 <I440r> barrel will be cleaner than you ever saw it
09:31:03 <PoppaVic> NEVER thru my rifles, but for the 45, no prob
09:31:11 <I440r> i used to take about 4 hours to clean my guns
09:31:15 <I440r> now its just one hour :)
09:31:32 <PoppaVic> yeah, when dad died I spent almost 3 days cleaning his 35
09:32:02 <I440r> yea - when i bought my first model 1907 it took about a week to get it to where i liked it
09:32:07 <I440r> but i was stoning parts of it too
09:32:12 <PoppaVic> A sparkling bbl and bedding like a mad mofo makes the old 35rem 336 rifle worth shooting
09:32:34 <PoppaVic> NEVER trust folks that talk about "freefloating" bbls
09:32:40 <I440r> i like my adl-700 30-06 but i hate its stock
09:32:54 <I440r> oh my ar-15 has a free floating barrel!
09:33:22 <I440r> no external pressures on the barrel adjusting its aim by a billionth of an inch at 5 miles!
09:33:31 <PoppaVic> The 35 stock, with a new recoilpad was nice; the 30-06 got a buffer; the 300sav got nothing - all groovy
09:33:34 <OrngeTide> ar-15s are pretty nice
09:33:42 <I440r> mine is :)
09:33:55 <PoppaVic> I wouldn't OWN an ar15, let alone freefloated
09:33:56 <OrngeTide> it really depends a lot on who make it.
09:33:56 <I440r> oooh i want a savage rifle!
09:34:19 <PoppaVic> the m99 is one of the nicest shooters on the planet.
09:34:33 <OrngeTide> i still haven't taken my schmidt rubin K31 out to fire. which is sad since I've owned it for like 3 years now
09:34:38 <PoppaVic> the sav111 30-06 is "OK", but I've shot better
09:34:42 <I440r> i want a lever action single shot 223 rifle
09:34:58 <PoppaVic> seems like a poor idea, i4
09:35:04 <PoppaVic> maybe a ruger
09:35:09 <I440r> but i fucking hate those lever actiions where the level is just a little curl coming off the triggger guard
09:35:21 <PoppaVic> I leave gopher-getter to #3 son
09:35:21 <I440r> i want a LEVER - not a girly looking trigger guard thingie
09:36:04 <PoppaVic> A lever has 3 possible modes: tube, mag, or spool: otherwise, it's a SS and not worth my time
09:36:15 <I440r> rolling block
09:36:19 <PoppaVic> no
09:36:19 <I440r> i said single shot
09:36:21 <PoppaVic> SS
09:36:38 <I440r> i want a single shot lever action 223
09:36:51 <PoppaVic> getting a replica Rem RB and rebbl to 223 sounds trivial, if not costly
09:37:13 <PoppaVic> Not worth the machine-time
09:37:30 <PoppaVic> get a howa-bolt and the accuracy is already top-end
09:37:39 <OrngeTide> why have lever action if it's not SS?
09:37:51 <PoppaVic> a lever is a lever, not a SS
09:38:15 <I440r> no you can have a rolling block single shot that uses a lever action
09:38:19 <I440r> its still a lever action
09:38:29 <PoppaVic> sorry
09:38:32 <OrngeTide> that's what I think of when i think lever action.
09:38:33 <PoppaVic> nope
09:38:45 <PoppaVic> 'action' was the clue
09:39:13 <I440r> the block IS the action
09:39:20 <I440r> and its worked from a lever
09:39:21 <I440r> not a bolt
09:39:25 <PoppaVic> plus, a SS will let use bullets of assorted shapes, a lever will not
09:39:51 <PoppaVic> with a BLR or m99 "spool" you can use pointed: no one else can
09:40:30 <PoppaVic> personally, I've never seen a SS I would _really_ want.
09:40:38 <PoppaVic> pretty, maybe: but not WANT
09:41:05 <PoppaVic> otoh, a BLR and a savage m99: those babes are "pretty"
09:42:02 <PoppaVic> I'd love to score a used m99 and set it up for 358win. Or get a 35Whelen BLR.
09:43:40 <I440r> i cant find any fotos of a savage m99
09:44:19 <PoppaVic> model 99 levers - discontinued about 10 years ago, pretty as hell
09:44:24 <I440r> fuck
09:44:34 <PoppaVic> wait a sec
09:44:36 <I440r> my browser is blocking ALL fgucking pictures except adverts
09:44:38 <I440r> for fuck sake
09:45:27 <I440r> i dont like the stock
09:45:28 <I440r> at all
09:45:45 <PoppaVic> http://www.savage99.com/
09:46:09 <PoppaVic> there are several styles <shrug> I don't mind 2 pc and I love the schnable
09:46:46 <PoppaVic> I have seen very few "attractive" rifles... FINE is another issue
09:47:15 <PoppaVic> the m99 is like a shark or a dolphin: just NICE
09:47:30 <PoppaVic> a Herters Mauser is similar - clean and NICE
09:47:33 <I440r> i like the adl actually
09:47:36 <I440r> if its put in a decent stock
09:47:45 <PoppaVic> bdl? or the bolt-thing?
09:47:47 <I440r> but for a bolt action you CANNOT beat a mauser
09:47:53 <I440r> adl and bdl are almost identical
09:47:55 <PoppaVic> yep
09:48:09 <I440r> the bds has a plate in the bottom of the mag to release the rounds without working the bolt
09:48:24 <I440r> brno still makes mauser action rifles
09:48:44 <I440r> but the absolute best mauser i ever saw is one made for the persian army
09:48:48 <I440r> my father owns it
09:48:54 <I440r> absolutely in MINT condition
09:48:55 <PoppaVic> Matt (#2 son) has got to completely rebbl his wifes 7mm 96mau... We got everything done, and it shoots shit - breech is corroded.. We are thinking 308
09:49:03 <I440r> including the persian royal crest on the action
09:49:23 <PoppaVic> ns.. It has to SHOOT, to our mind - or sell them off to collectors
09:49:33 <I440r> nono it shoots :)
09:49:37 <I440r> collectors destroy guns
09:49:51 <I440r> they take them out twice a year and apply a lightly oiled rag to them
09:49:55 <I440r> they do not clean them 
09:49:56 <I440r> ever
09:50:18 <I440r> so you basiclly got a nice lump of rust inside
09:50:34 <I440r> functioality is part of the beauty of any gun
09:50:35 <PoppaVic> Drew (#3 son) and I sold off our argentine mausers for new sks - the brass ALONE for 7.5mm was too goddamned expensive, and the idea of mounting a scope was stomach-churning.
09:50:49 <I440r> ya lol
09:51:00 <I440r> i prefer iron sites tho
09:51:15 <I440r> says me with a nice scope on his adl lol
09:51:34 <PoppaVic> the buyer has a large locker for his milspec collectabiles.. I coulnd't argue that he'd abuse them
09:51:49 <PoppaVic> I can't use iron, never could: too nearsighted
09:52:17 <PoppaVic> Plus, I prefer dropping crosshairs on the zoomed & doomed
09:52:24 <I440r> haha
09:53:13 <PoppaVic> heh.. Matt and I are awaiting Drew learning that his 270win loads are inferior to our "overkill, wasted-time" loads ;-)
09:53:34 <I440r> hah
09:53:39 <I440r> i dont load hot
09:53:46 <PoppaVic> Drew likes to pretend The Book Is All - and a chrono and chamber-measures (etc) are wasted time
09:54:10 <I440r> and my not as hot loads crony just as fast as the hot hydrashocks
09:54:25 <I440r> and they arent as harsh on the firearm either
09:54:29 <PoppaVic> he just last week discovered my sav111 30/06 was shooting tighter than his "new" (bought from me) 270
09:54:35 <I440r> plus my loads are way more accurate at distance than hydra
09:55:17 <PoppaVic> I use lee crimps on all, and - because I own never more than "one of" - everything is necksized/chamber-spaced.
09:55:37 <I440r> lee dies are the best but their presses suck
09:55:45 <I440r> well - the best for the price :)
09:55:52 <I440r> right now i can only reload 223 and 30-06
09:55:56 <I440r> and i use a lee loader
09:56:14 <I440r> all my rounds are within 1/1000's of an inch of spec
09:56:22 <I440r> im basically blueprinting all my rounds :)
09:57:55 <PoppaVic> I like my 4-hole turret - buy a comparator
09:58:27 <PoppaVic> I don't get more than a few thou diff
09:59:11 <PoppaVic> Measuring from the ogive saves a lot of screams and tears, trust me
09:59:18 <I440r> i knonw 
09:59:27 <I440r> but thats the ONLY way to accuratly measure
09:59:47 <PoppaVic> Sure, and the 4-hole lee turret makes setup so easy it's silly
10:00:11 <PoppaVic> I removed the auto-index,l though
10:00:33 <PoppaVic> I manually index... Life is good
10:00:51 <I440r> ya
10:00:57 <I440r> do you pre-prime or do you use the auto primer ?
10:01:08 <PoppaVic> I use the lee autoprime handtool
10:01:10 <I440r> the auto primer requires too much babying
10:01:13 <I440r> yes
10:01:19 <PoppaVic> I hated the half-assed "auto" primer idea
10:01:27 <I440r> the hand tool is the best. not the one built into the turret
10:01:32 <PoppaVic> yep
10:01:33 <I440r> those are fscked up
10:01:48 <PoppaVic> I sealed off all the divots in the turret, too
10:02:18 <PoppaVic> I either catch 90% of the primers, or miss the 10% in a large batch - and then sweep up.
10:02:47 <PoppaVic> someday, my isp will set up my page and you can see the photos
10:03:18 <PoppaVic> ...naturelly, Young Lee ignored my comments and suggestions for the press
10:03:54 <PoppaVic> John, I believe it was - fucker totally ignored my suggestions <shrug>
10:07:38 <PoppaVic> OK, time for a nap before cranking up dinner....
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11:10:13 <ASau> Dobry vecer!
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11:14:46 <alexander_> gah, linux..
11:25:18 <alexander_> so I just had an idea how I'm going to do my forth IP stack
11:25:34 <alexander_> I'm going to steal QNX's message passing concept
11:25:41 <alexander_> and have the IP stack run in userspace
11:48:10 <OrngeTide> a normal microkernel message passing, or qnx's funny send/receive/reply model?
11:48:19 <alexander_> not sure yet
11:48:47 <alexander_> but I'm thinking that the processes sending messages to each other would just share a RAM buffer.. and signal each other when it's time to check the contents of the message buffer
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13:47:38 <OrngeTide> alexander_, qnx also has pulses. where you can send a signal + a 32-bit value.
13:59:04 <alexander_> OrngeTide: that sounds like a good way to be able to 'wake up' a process that has a new message
13:59:18 <alexander_> what I want to do is avoid going through the kernel as much as possible
14:00:59 <OrngeTide> i used it to send data asynchronously. I'd give it a pointer to a buffer I filled. and it would then map in my memory and read out of it directly.
14:01:17 <alexander_> yah
14:01:24 <alexander_> you mean, the remote process would read the buffer?
14:01:31 <OrngeTide> L4 kernel is nice for that. since it does so little you don't have to go into L4 kernel much
14:02:49 <OrngeTide> yea. so instead of shuffling data around it'd just use my buffer as-is to do parsing, string manipulations, encryptiong, whatever. and then it'd send my buffer to the next process in the chain of filters. 
14:03:35 <OrngeTide> the process that originally had the buffer would unmap it from it's space after the signal has been dealt with. and when everything has unmapped, then the kernel frees the buffer.
14:04:22 <alexander_> ah
14:04:25 <alexander_> yah, that's smart
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15:07:15 <OrngeTide> wow. qemu is emulating an x86 pretty well on my powerpc. installing netbsd right now.
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15:24:43 <Herkamire> OrngeTide: yeah, I was playing around with netbsd under qemu on ppc for a while
15:25:39 <Herkamire> the package manager failed an a couple things, but mostly everything just worked fine
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22:22:24 <I440r> isforth-1.16b has now been released
22:22:28 <I440r> meep meep
22:26:09 <LOOP-HOG> yeah
22:30:10 <arke> beep beep!
22:30:12 <arke> beep beep!
22:30:12 <arke> beep beep!
22:30:12 <arke> beep beep!
22:30:23 <arke> I440r: DOES IT HAVE A FUCKING DNS RESOLVER NOW!??!?!?!?!
22:30:26 <arke> :)
22:34:16 <I440r> no
22:34:26 <I440r> but im gona redo the sockets code and then port same to ppc and fbsd
22:34:34 <I440r> the sockets code doesnt work in eithe of those yet
22:35:35 * arke slaps I440r 
22:35:36 <arke> :)
22:35:41 <arke> well hurry
22:35:46 <arke> I need a forth for net stuff
22:35:58 <arke> and I dont wanna use gFROTH (purposely mispelled)
22:38:58 <I440r> use isforth x86
22:40:56 <arke> WELL I NEED A DNS RESOLVER ;)
22:41:00 <arke> go go gadget
22:41:00 <LOOP-HOG> this would make Forth Spambots doable
22:41:19 <arke> LOOP-HOG: thats why I was ... err, I mean ... yes, that would sucl .... :P
22:41:36 <LOOP-HOG> everybody flame me ;^)
22:42:00 <LOOP-HOG> LOOP-HOG bursts into a pile of flames and ashes
22:48:52 --- join: arke_ (~arke@pool-71-109-104-243.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) joined #forth
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22:53:15 <arke> shit
22:53:21 <arke> its not supposed to do that
22:54:05 --- join: arke_ (~arke@pool-71-109-104-243.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) joined #forth
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23:23:22 --- quit: sproingie (Remote closed the connection)
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23:33:40 <alexForth> hey
23:34:21 <alexForth> this client is almost usable now
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23:35:13 <alexander_> re..
23:35:22 <alexander_> but xchat still works better. :)
23:36:06 <alexForth> also the cursor movement is jacked up
23:50:23 <Herkamire> irssi all the way
23:50:42 <alexForth> this is like an isforth-based irssi
23:50:54 <Herkamire> alexForth: cool
23:51:03 <Herkamire> alexForth: how do you deal with dns?
23:51:12 <alexForth> I don't yet. : |
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23:51:35 <Herkamire> oop
23:51:37 <alexander_> haha
23:51:38 <alexander_> houston
23:51:42 <alexander_> we've overrun our input buffer
23:51:49 * alexander_ fixes that
23:52:24 <Herkamire> you using a hardcoded IP? or using tcpclient or soemthing like that?
23:53:08 <alexander_> hardcoded IP
23:53:15 <alexander_> it's using syscalls for all IO
23:53:19 <Herkamire> cool
23:53:52 <Herkamire> yeah.
23:54:15 <Herkamire> tcpclient just runs your program, and routes fd 6 and 7 from/to the network
23:54:32 <alexander_> yah, I wanted to go all out
23:54:50 <Herkamire> yeah
23:54:52 <alexander_> getting the networking up was easier.. the string parsing is a bitch
23:55:03 <Herkamire> I recently rewrote something to do sockets directly instead of using tcpserver
23:55:19 <alexander_> ah
23:55:32 <Herkamire> so I could detect timeouts
23:56:18 <Herkamire> someone should implement dns
23:56:26 <Herkamire> arke: like you!
23:56:28 <alexander_> haha
23:56:42 <alexander_> I'm going to turn this IRC client into an API for doing line-based protocols
23:56:50 <alexander_> kind of like twisted's LineReceiverProtocol
23:56:56 <Herkamire> heh
23:57:11 <Herkamire> I've looked into implementing a dns resolver
23:57:36 <Herkamire> it's kinda complicated, but you should be able to do it in a day
23:58:25 <Herkamire> I never got around to finishing an implementation of it
23:58:37 <alexander_> yah, I've written a resolver before in C, it's not that bad if you're just a dumb client talking to a recursive server
23:59:03 <Herkamire> I wrote something that sends a query, but didn't really parse the response, only worked if the first thing in the reply was the answer
23:59:09 <alexander_> ah
23:59:15 <Herkamire> which is usually the case, but not overwelmingly
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23:59:59 <Herkamire> problem is sometimes you get those stupid alias responses
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.06.09