00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.06.02
00:06:21 <alexander_> cool
00:06:34 <arke> :)
00:06:37 <arke> lets hope I get accepted
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04:18:58 <Robert> Hi.
04:20:38 <tathi> Hi Robert.
04:23:41 <Robert> http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/k0iye/index.htm <--- online book about building radios, that's pretty cool.
04:23:59 <Robert> brb, going to visit the C128.
04:27:54 <saon> ack, i am so newb, i've forgotten when to use . and -> in C
04:27:58 <saon> :(
04:30:30 <saon> ah, nvm
04:30:57 <saon> -> is for pointers to structs, . is for structs
04:31:00 <saon> *dance*
04:31:01 <tathi> yup
04:31:13 <saon> yay for keeping my old code around
04:31:31 <saon> i couldn't find anywhere that i used . though, seems pretty crappy
04:31:37 * saon is a pointer-lover
04:31:53 <tathi> :)
04:32:38 <tathi> cool.  got timezone file parsing working in isforth.
04:35:04 <Robert> Nice.
04:35:11 <Robert> How about DNS? ;)
04:35:25 <tathi> heh.  I haven't looked at that code yet.
04:35:26 <saon> wow, this is _the_ ugliest C code ever
04:35:49 <tathi> I440r has been keeping me busy with incorporating the changes he needs to get the FreeBSD working.
04:36:00 <saon> anybody know a better way to make expandable lists in C that can be pushed and popped like in perl?
04:36:31 <saon> i just have a doubly-linked list with void* for data and a datatype byte
04:37:18 <Robert> That's the problem with C. :)
04:37:26 <Robert> It's nothing more than portable assembly ;)
04:37:33 <saon> it can be done, but it's ugly as hell
04:37:38 <Robert> Ehm, brb, before I forget this as well
04:37:44 <saon> because i have to tell it what i'm returning
04:38:05 <saon> and i have no clue what i'm returning until i actually get it
04:38:41 <saon> time to be naughty and add a global variable
04:41:44 <saon> is it legal to have double arrows? "curnode->last->next=0;"
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04:43:39 <tathi> sure
04:59:07 <saon> is head a restricted word in C?
04:59:30 <Robert> No.
04:59:46 <saon> yay
04:59:46 <warpzero> nothing is a restricted word in C when you've got CPP
05:02:25 <warpzero> #define struct not_struct
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05:06:22 * warpzero just got NetBSD to boot on a Venetian Snares - Intense Demonic Attacks - Printf("Shiver In Eternal Darkness\N"); - 3
05:07:48 <tathi> ?
05:09:04 <warpzero> haven't you ever heard venetian snares?
05:09:50 <tathi> no, sorry
05:10:04 <warpzero> do you like jazz at all
05:10:18 <tathi> yeah, don't really listen to much though
05:10:21 <warpzero> like crazy free jazz 
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05:18:17 <tathi> I assumed they were a band, I just don't understand what a jazz song has to do with booting NetBSD
05:18:54 <warpzero> oh its my now playing script
05:19:05 <warpzero> it has a variety of fun phrases
05:19:09 <warpzero> like /xmms
05:19:12 <warpzero> alsdkjf;
05:19:13 * warpzero would play DDR if it had Rude Ass Tinker - Magical Digital - Amunition - 11
05:19:16 * warpzero opens up a port for Rude Ass Tinker - Magical Digital - Amunition - 11
05:19:17 <warpzero> IBM just released the patent for Rude Ass Tinker - Magical Digital - Amunition - 11
05:19:23 <warpzero> etc
05:20:16 <tathi> ah. :)
05:20:41 <warpzero> so the joke for that thing is that
05:20:49 <warpzero> NetBSD runs on everything right
05:21:33 <tathi> yeah
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08:10:15 <Herkamire> 4theasy4u?
08:10:32 <Herkamire> hi all :)
08:13:44 <Robert> Hi :)
08:13:56 <I440r_> hi herk
08:17:53 <Herkamire> how goes the projects?
08:18:41 <tathi> pretty well
08:19:55 <tathi> started to strip down my truck yesterday to repaint and do bodywork
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08:20:17 <tathi> got a set of ELF headers on IsForth that I like :)
08:20:26 <tathi> and...just aded support for /etc/localtime as well
08:21:15 <I440r_> yea
08:21:21 <I440r_> i like those too
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08:21:32 <I440r_> tathi does your /etc/localtime code work ?
08:21:36 <tathi> yup.
08:21:45 <I440r_> i didnt get a chance to code it last nite but im gona try do it today at work :)
08:21:48 <I440r_> cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:22:11 <tathi> hope yours goes as easily as mine did :)
08:22:21 <tathi> forth is so cool
08:28:16 <I440r_> it will :)
08:28:22 <I440r_> then we can compare notes :)
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08:40:35 <virl> interesting..
08:41:45 <virl> howto make a localtime program in forth?
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11:06:47 <Quiznos> oooo forth!
11:07:03 <Quiznos> "sorta"! heh
11:07:30 <Quiznos> hello, what's the latest forth news?
11:07:53 <Quiznos> y'all dont speak forth here?
11:07:57 <Quiznos> only english?
11:08:38 <Quiznos> awake?
11:08:41 <Quiznos> alive?
11:09:38 <tathi> people idling.
11:09:52 <tathi> shh! :)
11:10:07 <Quiznos> no fair
11:10:20 <Quiznos> i wanna redefine stuff!
11:10:24 <Quiznos> heh
11:14:15 <virl> : Quiznos ." i wanna redefine stuff!" ." ;-)" ;
11:15:04 <Quiznos> nah uh
11:15:07 <Quiznos> heh
11:15:22 <Quiznos> syntax error too
11:15:33 <Quiznos> oops, none
11:15:35 <virl> not really
11:15:38 <Quiznos> misparse
11:15:54 <Quiznos> i think in forth, but i havent written forth in a while
11:16:08 <Quiznos> sometimes i even speak in forth.
11:16:11 <Quiznos> heh
11:17:04 <virl> how do you speak in forth? hey! .. ok  what's shaking? .. ok
11:17:34 <Quiznos> heh
11:17:47 <Quiznos> what shakes @
11:18:28 <virl> why storing?
11:18:39 <Quiznos> store?
11:19:03 <Quiznos> store? dup and @ .
11:19:45 <virl> lol
11:20:10 <Quiznos> wat's funny?
11:20:30 <Quiznos> funny? @ if ." huh" fi 
11:20:32 <Quiznos> ;
11:20:52 <virl> syntax error
11:20:57 <Quiznos> where?
11:21:03 <Quiznos> i said redefine stuff!
11:21:14 <Quiznos> alias then fi
11:21:17 <Quiznos> funny? @ if ." huh" fi 
11:21:25 <Quiznos> heh
11:22:26 <virl> iirc to redefine something is to create a new colon definition with the same name and the new code.
11:22:29 <Quiznos> has anyone melded a forth kernel into linux yet?
11:23:24 <Quiznos> well, an alias makes a new head and should lay down jmp code to the original word being aliased
11:27:18 <virl> we need a game forth!
11:27:40 <Quiznos> a forth for writing high end games?
11:29:15 <virl> yes that would be cool.
11:29:23 <Quiznos> k
11:29:41 <Quiznos> i'm an idear man meself
11:30:28 <virl> I love this language, should I create a game engine somewhere in the future it will use forth.
11:31:13 <Quiznos> have you seen kohonen's forth apropriate libforth for use instead of libstdc?
11:31:19 <virl> at the moment I'm writting a forth system for a retro-game-console. I hope I can make it wickedly fast.
11:31:20 <Quiznos> libc
11:31:26 <Quiznos> nice
11:33:01 <virl> and no I haven't seen it.
11:36:18 <Quiznos> afk
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12:52:24 <arke> Hello
12:54:09 <alexander_> virl: we created a forth game engine using ficl a while back
12:54:13 <alexander_> it worked pretty well
12:57:44 <virl> what was it called?
12:58:42 <virl> and what were the pro and cons of that game engine?
13:11:15 <alexander_> it was never publicly released.. and the pros were that forth was pretty compact and clean to hack
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13:12:53 <virl> and the cons?
13:13:09 <Quiznos> i gotz a implementation q
13:13:12 <Quiznos> want it?
13:13:57 <virl> what? I don't know what you mean
13:14:55 <virl> want what?
13:15:03 <Quiznos> for the last few weeks i've thinking about how one would integrate a higher level of structure into the fkernel on posix platforms
13:15:29 <Quiznos> there's a file at /usr/include/argv.h  that describes linked list argv style structures
13:16:51 <Quiznos> i'mve been thinking how one wold go about designing a fkern that would properly handle movable word -heds and bodies
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14:28:58 <I440r> dang wheres tathi :P
14:29:03 <tathi> I'm here now
14:29:08 <I440r> yea i saw lol
14:29:12 <I440r> i got it working too
14:29:20 <I440r> ill check it in when i get back home :)
14:29:28 <tathi> cool
14:29:37 <I440r> only one thing to correct and thats the display of the local offset
14:29:45 <I440r> but other than that its working 
14:30:14 <I440r> which is freekin GOOD!!!!
14:30:18 <tathi> nice.
14:30:26 <I440r> now i gotta port it into the fbsd version
14:30:32 <tathi> ya, I just hacked it into the existing display code with as little work as possible :)
14:30:33 <I440r> and all the other changes we have made
14:30:38 <I440r> heh
14:30:44 <I440r> thats always the best way
14:31:08 <I440r> thers nothing wrong with the existing code except it was using deprecated methods
14:31:27 <tathi> like...
14:31:58 <alexander_> virl: cons were I had to teach people forth
14:32:28 <alexander_> I440r: I think I'm going to hack a holon-style environment for my AVR and ARM forths in IsForth
14:32:51 <I440r> cool!
14:33:01 <I440r> if u do ill publish it on my site
14:33:06 <alexander_> cool
14:33:18 <alexander_> I want to do an editor that compiles code as I type
14:33:27 <alexander_> stealing from some of the ColorForth ideas
14:37:37 <I440r> :)
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15:33:14 * arke just fixed his car's starter motor
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17:28:03 * Al2O3 just missed zoly
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18:34:16 <Robert> Hi, slava 
18:34:27 <slava> hi
18:34:36 <arke> teh hies
18:34:55 <slava> anybody know if i have to clear the overflow flag manually on powerpc?
19:05:57 <arke> sub r0, r0, r0
19:06:02 <arke> that should do it
19:06:03 <arke> :P
19:06:07 <arke> I don't know.
19:20:08 * slava ponders
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19:21:33 <slava> powerpc is very funny
19:21:37 <slava> it doesn't even have a mod instruction :)
19:21:50 <arke> hah
19:21:54 <Robert> Can't say I use mod very often.
19:22:20 <arke> I do
19:22:24 <Robert> Real Programmers Use Base-2^n Systems ;)
19:22:26 <arke> I use it to check boundaries
19:22:37 <Robert> Whaaaaat? With modulo?
19:22:47 <slava> i use mod to compute modulos :)
19:22:51 <Robert> It's like the slowest instruction there is.
19:22:54 <slava> number theory and elliptic curve stuff
19:23:00 <arke> Robert: faster than a compare and branch
19:31:52 <alexander_> hey
19:32:04 <Robert> Hi.
19:33:08 <slava> hi Robert 
19:33:11 <slava> hi alexander_ 
19:33:14 <slava> hi arke 
19:33:30 <alexander_> sup?
19:34:48 * Robert prepares to go to bed.
19:37:36 <arke> hello
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20:25:04 <slava> I440r!
20:25:11 <I440r> hi slava
20:25:38 <I440r> tathi helped me get the localtime stuff figured out!
20:25:58 <slava> I440r, i hope for your sake you never have to do assembly programming on OS X :)
20:26:10 <slava> to trap a protection fault, you have to open a mach message port and make a remote procedure call to the crash handler server
20:26:16 <I440r> i have a slight bug in my code - he has completed his. when im finished with mine we will compare notes and finalize the code!
20:26:27 <I440r> ugh
20:26:32 <I440r> thats horrible
20:26:36 <slava> because signal handlers are too simple for apple
20:26:38 <slava> or for mach
20:26:44 <I440r> duh
20:27:00 <I440r> i.e. lets see if we can make THE most complex solution we can !!!
20:27:05 <slava> yeah
20:27:07 <I440r> i hate that shit. thats why i dont code c
20:27:19 <slava> mach claims to be a microkernel, but its bigger than linux
20:27:26 <I440r> anyway, it will be a snap to port all the current work over to fbsd i think
20:27:36 <I440r> and then i wanna release all 3 versions officially
20:27:41 <slava> cool
20:27:47 <slava> we can benchmark isforth/ppc against factor/ppc
20:27:53 <I440r> :)
20:28:47 <I440r> just got home from a poker game (i lost :)(
20:28:52 <slava> damn
20:28:55 <I440r> and i had the AC off all nite
20:28:57 <I440r> erm all day
20:29:05 <I440r> so now its like 80 in here and i got roaches all over grrrr
20:29:19 <I440r> i got the ac on now but it will take a while to cool off to where the roaches go back outside
20:29:27 <slava> roaches? yuck
20:29:32 <I440r> i hate roaches
20:29:36 <slava> we don't have them here
20:29:36 <I440r> and these are almost as big as my car
20:29:39 <slava> HAHAHA
20:30:07 <I440r> i also cant code in this heat 
20:30:10 <I440r> WAY too hot
20:36:11 <I440r> so am i gona be able to test the fbsd code when ive ported all the edits over to it ?
20:36:26 <slava> sure
20:36:36 <slava> just ping me when you're ready and i'll start sshd
20:37:09 <I440r> thanx :)
20:37:23 <slava> np
20:37:29 <slava> we need some forths on freebsd that are not gforth :)
20:40:58 <I440r> :)
20:41:03 <I440r> ya
20:43:59 <alexander_> I440r: I'm looking at the isforth terminal code.. what's the reason for beheading a lot of the definitions?
20:46:25 <I440r> cuts down on vocabulary cruft
20:46:31 <I440r> basically
20:46:58 <arke> cause they're not needed :)
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20:48:17 <slava> i don't like hiding stuff
20:48:22 <I440r> me either
20:48:25 <slava> its easier to test and debug if nothing is hidden
20:48:39 <I440r> but the dictionary would be bloated all to hell if i didnt behead some stuff
20:48:50 <I440r> and it tends to be the stuff your less likely to need elsewhere
20:48:50 <slava> that doesn't matter, its just a dictionary
20:49:09 <I440r> yes it does, it makes it harder when you have a dictionary of 524856429387645 words
20:49:19 <I440r> and the compile is also a hell of alot slower
20:49:36 <slava> a hell of a lot slower? you don't have a hashtable dictionary?
20:50:06 <I440r> yes i do
20:50:13 <slava> but a fixed number of buckets?
20:50:18 <I440r> yes
20:50:25 <I440r> 64 if i remember right
20:50:34 <slava> my hashtables grow when you add stuff, so that each bucket has 1-3 items or so
20:51:06 <I440r> which makes the compiler more complex. i was kinda shooting for speed and readability for the beginner
20:51:51 <slava> bah... beginners :)
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.06.02