00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.05.27 01:02:43 --- join: snoopy_1711 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-024-187.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 01:10:58 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 01:11:17 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 01:28:52 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 01:46:47 --- quit: Frek (Excess Flood) 01:47:15 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h254n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 02:26:07 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 02:37:11 --- join: LuckyPhil (~philh@CPE-203-45-190-162.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 02:41:23 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 02:41:25 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 02:42:07 --- quit: Topaz (Client Quit) 02:42:33 --- join: Topaz (jonny@2001:5c0:88d3:0:206:1bff:fecf:9674) joined #forth 03:39:59 --- quit: OrngeTide (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: Robert (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: cmeme (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: Snoopy42 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: onetom (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: saon|smgl (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: Topaz (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: madgarden (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: skylan (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: I440r_ (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: LuckyPhil (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: KB1FYR (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: Frek (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: saon (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: Raystm2 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: madwork (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: vitaminmoo (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: arke (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:39:59 --- quit: Al2O3 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:40:00 --- quit: ccfg (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:40:00 --- quit: ianp (Connection reset by peer) 03:40:00 --- quit: warpzero (Nick collision) 03:40:00 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: Topaz (jonny@2001:5c0:88d3:0:206:1bff:fecf:9674) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: LuckyPhil (~philh@CPE-203-45-190-162.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h254n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: Snoopy42 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-024-187.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: vitaminmoo (~vitaminmo@dsl-95-113.peak.org) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: saon|smgl (~saon@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@rrcs-24-242-160-169.sw.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708121.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-24-1-126-202.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-f778e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: OrngeTide (~orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-32-57.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: skylan (~sjh@dialup-216-211-57-166.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 03:40:00 --- join: ccfg (ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 03:40:54 --- join: ianp (~ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- quit: OrngeTide (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: cmeme (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: Robert (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: Snoopy42 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: onetom (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: saon|smgl (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: Topaz (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: skylan (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: madgarden (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: ianp (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: I440r_ (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: KB1FYR (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: LuckyPhil (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: saon (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: warpzero (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: Frek (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: madwork (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: Raystm2 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: ccfg (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: vitaminmoo (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: arke (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- quit: Al2O3 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:51:22 --- join: ianp (~ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: Topaz (jonny@2001:5c0:88d3:0:206:1bff:fecf:9674) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: LuckyPhil (~philh@CPE-203-45-190-162.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h254n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: Snoopy42 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-024-187.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: vitaminmoo (~vitaminmo@dsl-95-113.peak.org) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: saon|smgl (~saon@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@rrcs-24-242-160-169.sw.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708121.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-24-1-126-202.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-f778e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: OrngeTide (~orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-32-57.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: skylan (~sjh@dialup-216-211-57-166.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 03:51:22 --- join: ccfg (ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 04:04:16 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:10:38 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- quit: OrngeTide (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: cmeme (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: Robert (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: Snoopy42 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: onetom (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: saon|smgl (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: skylan (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: madgarden (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: I440r_ (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: ianp (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: KB1FYR (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: LuckyPhil (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: Topaz (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: saon (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: warpzero (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: Frek (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: madwork (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: Raystm2 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: ccfg (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: vitaminmoo (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: arke (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- quit: Al2O3 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:21:31 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: ianp (~ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: LuckyPhil (~philh@CPE-203-45-190-162.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h254n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: Snoopy42 (snoopy_161@dsl-084-058-024-187.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: vitaminmoo (~vitaminmo@dsl-95-113.peak.org) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: saon|smgl (~saon@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@rrcs-24-242-160-169.sw.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708121.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-24-1-126-202.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-f778e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: OrngeTide (~orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-32-57.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: skylan (~sjh@dialup-216-211-57-166.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- join: ccfg (ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 04:22:05 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:18:30 --- quit: I440r_ ("Leaving") 06:57:35 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 07:21:34 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 07:23:17 --- quit: Topaz (Client Quit) 07:23:44 --- join: Topaz (jonny@2001:5c0:88d3:0:206:1bff:fecf:9674) joined #forth 07:25:43 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-24-1-126-202.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:49:17 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:49:33 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708121.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 08:02:19 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 08:02:30 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-32-57.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:47:51 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 08:51:24 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 09:29:40 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 10:21:09 --- join: madgarden_ (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708121.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 10:31:39 --- quit: madgarden_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:38:46 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:17:26 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708121.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 11:19:02 --- quit: madgarden (Client Quit) 11:19:36 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708121.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 11:53:38 --- join: KB1FYR|LT (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 12:02:29 --- quit: KB1FYR|LT () 13:07:07 --- quit: Al2O3 ("Leaving") 13:14:42 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 13:27:12 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:29:12 Hi. 13:29:30 Teh Hies 13:32:25 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:46:48 --- join: Robert__ (~snofs@c-f778e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 13:59:18 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:59:32 --- nick: Robert__ -> Robert 14:14:05 * slava reads logs 14:14:14 thanks for the powerpc advice, tathi and Frek 14:14:33 np slava 14:15:07 What did you talk him into? 14:17:06 who? 14:23:32 * slava adds rlwinm instruction to his assembler 14:23:32 re: slava and ppc 14:23:45 m-form eh 14:23:58 Robert, i like powerpc much more now than when i first started working with it 14:24:13 Robert, although i have to say, powerpc is not really risc if you think about it :) 14:25:01 Compared to some cpus, every instruction set is reduced ;) 14:25:22 VAX? 14:25:36 what's the longest VAX instruction? 56 bytes or something ridiculous? 14:26:19 :D 14:26:29 Whaaat?!?!?! lol 14:26:30 Never studied it, only heard the horror stories. 14:26:32 54 byte instruction? 14:26:44 But x86 can't be much better. 14:27:01 arke, yeah, vax can do all kinds of stuff like memory-to-memory block moves 14:27:06 hi all 14:27:09 crc! 14:27:15 hi slava 14:27:18 so many 1-byte prefixes on x86 :( 14:27:36 i like pdp-11.. 14:28:00 MSP430 is like a crippled pdp-11. 14:28:11 Do you have pet dinosaurs, too? ;) 14:28:12 i don't like 16 bit cpus; not enough bits to fit a 3-bit tag 14:28:33 i like 16-bit cpus when my other choice is 8-bit or funny 14-bit systems 14:28:38 hehe 14:29:09 :D 14:29:26 i normally find myself on 32-bit and 64-bit systems though. since I tend to get jobs coding linux. 14:29:47 but 16-bit can have a certain elegance. 14:29:50 64 bits... that never happend to me. 14:29:59 Robert, there's a first time for everything 14:30:04 mips and opteron 14:30:08 my next computer will either be a G5 or x86-64 14:30:20 * OrngeTide notes both of those use HyperTransport bus 14:30:33 * Robert wonders which he'll meet first - 64-bit cpus or humans. 14:30:43 i wish apple made a cheap G5. I have a mac mini which is a pretty cheap G4. 14:31:03 Robert, they have 64-bit mips in some older WindowsCE PDAs. 14:31:11 Robert, i hear there's still a small colony of humans, hiding in remote outposts throughout the galaxy... most have been replaced by alien-controlled holograms 14:31:12 * crc needs to get a PPC box sometime... 14:31:17 retro/ppc? 14:31:23 yeah :) 14:31:50 crc, you can get a powermac g3 blue&white on ebay for around $75. that's what I bought to use as a workstation at work (cisco tried to make me use a windows laptop with a broken ethernet port) 14:31:57 hmm 14:32:03 i have a 233 mhz g3 14:32:07 its much faster than a pentium 200 14:32:12 then I spend $225 and put a 1Ghz G3 in it :) 14:32:31 * crc would be happy to run a console-only linux on it, so speed shouldn't be too critical 14:33:08 crc, that's why i do on mine. 14:33:13 crc, KDE takes about a minute to start. :) 14:33:20 and I put 512mb more ram in it for another $50. .. so for $350 I have something not quite as fast as a mac mini. but it takes standard 5.25" cd/dvd drives and pci cards and harddrives. so it's pretty hacker-friendly. 14:34:03 slava: do you use ssh to connect to it, or do you use it directly? 14:34:10 it makes a nice little linux/ppc box. since the videocard on the powermac g3 b&w is just a crappy ATI pci Rage128 14:34:15 crc, ssh. 14:34:19 cool 14:34:23 , it doesn't do well at games. (although MacOS X runs smooth on it) 14:34:46 crc, the mac mounts my home dir from my freebsd box via nfs, so its very transparent 14:35:01 I've never delved into using nfs 14:35:03 crc, i basically have a funny xterm on my desktop that's slightly slower and has a different CPU :) 14:35:12 X11 actually runs faster than console on ppc since you can only do framebuffer console. X11 has much better video accelleration. 14:35:17 % 14:35:17 Someone once calculated that with all the addressing modes the longest 14:35:17 instruction was 104 words. 14:35:18 -- Peter da Silva, on the TRON architecture 14:35:37 i just run a minimalistic window manager (it runs every xterm full-screen and works kinda like 'screen' where you can just hit a hot key to flip or split windows) 14:35:50 i use windowmaker ;) i never liked tiled window managers 14:35:58 they're a pain to set up, i'd rather just have 234865 virtual desktops :) 14:36:13 there's two forms of rlwinm, i don't understand... 14:36:30 slava, I don't like overlapping windows. and I don't like having windows smaller than than my monitor. so ionwm works well it's "tiled" but the normal way to use it is have every title fullscreen 14:36:39 I use a modified version of aewm 14:36:39 OrngeTide: Ion? :) 14:36:43 i have lots of windows smaller than my monitor 14:37:00 * arke uses Ion too 14:37:05 slava, that's basically what I have. a million virtual desktops, with one window each. and I have hot keys to flip between it all. I only use a mouse when I'm in Firefox. 14:37:13 arke, I use ion2, i don't like ion3 14:37:31 slava, I like huge fonts since I don't see that well anyways. 14:37:35 * crc switches between ratpoison and aewm from time to time 14:37:52 I used to run my own wm based on aewm. 14:38:18 OrngeTide: same 14:38:25 OrngeTide: well, havent tried ion3 14:38:28 OrngeTide: :) 14:38:47 anybody used oberon? 14:38:54 arke, i guess it has some scripting junk in it and is more configurable. but ion2 already is setup exactly the way I like (I just change the key bindings, that's about it) 14:39:06 I tried oberon, it was pretty 14:39:37 about the only thing I like other than ion is xfce. but xfce is a traditional window manager and desktop environment. 14:39:50 OrngeTide: ....no way 14:39:55 OrngeTide: thats the other one I use as well. 14:39:56 vtwm is nice too. but stupid redhat boxes at work don't have it installed. 14:40:00 arke, ahah :) 14:40:02 OrngeTide: are you me? 14:40:05 OrngeTide: :) 14:40:12 * crc has used the native oberon system 14:40:26 arke, sometimes I find other forthers have the same tastes as me. it's scary. 14:40:55 like a lot of american forthers are libertarians. 14:41:16 by a lot I mean like 25%-ish. 14:42:21 and once I was searching for stuff on the KLR-650 (a dual-sport motorcycle made by kawasaki, it's a very hackable and minimalist bike), and I found some guys webpage with some forth links on it. 14:42:49 and I assume that forth isn't "extremely" popular, so I'm running into people who are on the same wavelength as me. 14:43:22 Yeah. 14:43:36 Not a coincidence that most of the #forth people have an INTP myers briggs type 14:43:37 :) 14:44:06 And probably not a coincidence that so many forthers actually take those tests seriously. 14:44:11 ahahah 14:44:58 SVFIG has a lot of old guys that go to it, sometimes I go there and think to myself "hrm. I wonder if I'll be like him when I'm 60." 14:45:29 Hah. 14:45:30 (17:45:45) Matt: i conjecture that there is an infinite sequence of abstractions between category theory and insanity 14:45:48 I need an idea for a portable forth project. something that I can implement and debug while it's running on batteries. 14:46:14 PIC forth doesn't appeal to me because frankly PICs are wimpy. 14:46:44 forth on some 8bit micros is okay. but I think the best forths are forths that have wordsize == 1 cell 14:47:14 * Robert was just going to suggest a z80ish system. 14:47:27 I suppose a used gameboy advance (arm7tdmi) is an idea. the link port on it is basically an rs232 (but at 0v/5v instead of fancy rs232 signaling) 14:47:37 OrngeTide: write a forth for kc5tja's Kestrel 8k computer :) 14:47:38 maybe a keyboard to the serial port is an option. 14:47:41 * Robert should do something with the rail of rca1802s he got. 14:47:46 crc, 8k computer? 14:47:59 8k of RAM :) 14:48:03 oh. 8k is a lot 14:48:16 kestrel never got finished? 14:48:24 http://falvotech.com/projects/kestrel/8k.php 14:48:39 He's restarted the project and is making some nice progress :) 14:48:58 (back to what was essentially the original design) 14:49:07 I do have a gumstix computer. it's a beast of a system (400Mhz Xscale w/ 64mb ram and 4mb flash running linux). no display though so making forth on it is not as appealing. 14:49:21 the gumstix is the size of a pack of juicyfruit though. 14:49:30 * crc will do a RetroForth/Kestrel once kc5tja starts selling them... 14:49:40 Heh, cool. 14:49:44 * crc likes the idea of the gumstix 14:49:51 we need more kit computers. I missed the whole kit computer revolution. 14:50:24 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:50:27 hi tathi 14:50:29 crc, the price on gumstix isn't terrible, for what you get. and if you like linux it's actually got a well well layed out development environment (compared to a lot of the companies I work for) 14:50:31 teh hies tathi 14:50:39 hmm 14:50:49 Does it have a serial port? 14:50:57 hi all 14:51:22 tathi, how do i go from a 4-operand rlwinm to a 5-operand one? 14:51:23 Hi. 14:51:24 rlwinm rD,rA,29,31 14:51:27 crc, two serial ports, MMC slot, AC97 audio, 10 gpios, and bluetooth. 14:51:31 cool 14:51:36 crc, the new version has a bus connector so you can put ethernet or compactflash on it. 14:52:01 * crc just needs one serial port to do a serial console for rf/arm 14:52:17 crc, did you do any more work on the lisp wordset? 14:52:18 hrm.. 65816 @ 80khz .. cute. what's the 65816 again? is it related to 6502 or 68hc11 ? 14:52:23 slava: no 14:52:33 OrngeTide, its the chip used in the apple IIgs 14:52:38 I've been trying to focus on documenting what already exists... 14:52:40 crc, the advantage of two serial ports when you have a linux system is you can use one for kgdb. 14:52:41 slava: what? 14:52:41 OrngeTide, i don't believe its 80khz though 14:53:00 OrngeTide: 6502 ... its basically a 6502 with a 16-bit mode - kc5tja loves it :) 14:53:00 tathi, my motorola documentation lists rlwinm as an m-form instruction with 5 fields 14:53:02 I bought a PalmIII modem for $1 which I plan to hook to a serial port. 14:53:07 yeah 14:53:12 OrngeTide, I don't use gdb ;) 14:53:14 tathi, s a b mb me 14:53:17 slava, you can clock it to 4Mhz.. but the link says he's running it at 80khz 14:53:30 arke, hrm.. a 6502 with 16-bit mode. that sounds really neat. 14:53:36 although I prefer 6809 over 6502 14:53:44 slava: right. where do you have 4 operands? 14:53:48 crc, do you code for linux? 14:53:58 Yes 14:54:02 OrngeTide: 16MB addressable memory too :) 14:54:23 crc, I use it because nobody will buy me an ICE. I like to poke into data structures, and gdb makes that easy. 14:54:35 arke, crazy. does it have hardware multiply? 14:54:52 tathi, the example you have me: rlwinm rD,rA,29,31 14:55:01 tathi, i presume the fifth one is computed 14:55:02 slava: yeah, just found it. oops. 14:55:09 left out the shift (of 0) 14:55:14 gdb doesn't like my assembly code 14:55:15 so its just 0? cool 14:55:16 rlwinm rD,rA,0,29,31 14:55:18 OrngeTide: no idea :) 14:55:20 my bad 14:55:21 crc, gdb is useless with assembly 14:55:27 I've noticed that 14:55:37 wow, I did it twice in a row too. 14:55:39 * crc needs to flesh out retrospect further... 14:55:52 gdb's disassembler is handy 14:56:01 crc, gdb is picky as hell. i mainly use it to debug OTHER people's code 14:56:31 crc, so like I might be writing an ethernet driver. I want to use gdb to walk through skbufs that some other part of the system has handed me. 14:56:52 hmm 14:57:27 because garbage-in/garbage-out .. and it's often not unreasonable to assume that somehow you've triggered a bug in another part of the system by adding your code. 14:57:28 slava: grr, I got that totally wrong. That would KEEP the low 3 bits. 14:57:30 that's not a bad use for gdb 14:58:12 clrrwi rD,rA,3 = rlwinm rD,rA,0,0,28 (in general clrrwi rD,rA,N = rlwinm rD,rA,0,0,31-N) 14:58:18 tathi, thanks 14:58:47 * arke came up with a 16-instruction RISC instrution set a while ago . cant find it though 14:59:05 gdb is also fun because you can force values with it. so if you get a bug you can sometimes force variables to undo the bug so you can attempt to recreate the bug without going through the whole process or installing and booting the kernel 14:59:08 instead of "and" and "shift left" and "shift right" instructions, it had a single "roll left wth mask" :) 14:59:33 i'd like to see a cpu with support for dynamic typing :) 14:59:35 * OrngeTide uses gdb to force spinlocks 14:59:43 slava, they've been done before. 15:00:09 lisp machines, etc 15:00:21 arke, you're not going to believe me. but I have a 16-bit RISC instruction set too... 15:00:31 i think arke said 16 instruction, not 16 bit :) 15:00:37 my big trick was I had reverse subtract :) 15:00:39 oh.. 16-instruction 15:01:05 hehehe 15:01:15 oh yeah, it didnt have addition either 15:01:17 mine had a few more. but instruction+parameters all fit into 16-bit. and the instructions had contionals like ARM. so there wasn't that many bits left over for different operations 15:01:18 only subtract 15:01:19 :) 15:01:29 yea. I didn't have addition or subtraction. just reverse subtraction. 15:01:35 whats that ? 15:01:46 y-x 15:02:14 what about a cpu that was simd-only? 15:02:16 yea. it's nice because you can use it to turn values negative. 15:02:20 or is that a dsp :) 15:02:35 slava, for what? 15:02:42 OrngeTide: ...thats still a subtract though, really 15:02:47 OrngeTide: just turn the operand aroud? 15:02:51 around* 15:03:04 arke, sure it's just subtraction. i just changed the semantics of it to make a couple operations less cumbersome. 15:03:17 aah 15:03:34 arke, yea. since my system was dest=dest OP source; 15:03:39 mine had not a single literal instruction, except "load literal" and "jump immediate" 15:03:42 :) 15:04:03 so OP of RSB .. would actually get you dest=source - dest; .. where as SUBtract would have been dest=dest - source; 15:04:30 arke, I had two literal instructions. load upper byte and load lower byte. 15:04:57 OrngeTide: mine was only load lower byte. if you wanted to load the upper byte, you'd shift it with RLM :) 15:05:01 some systems do a load next word. but I figured I could do a lot more in the same amount of instruction space by just breaking things into halves. 15:05:32 arke, load lower is fine, but sometimes you want some quick way to do sign extension. 15:06:27 OrngeTide: true. :) 15:06:34 hrm 15:06:35 my instruction set was designed to be easy to write a Forth *OR* C compiler for. so it had a lot of things in common with pdp11, arm and m68k. it wasn't really minimualist design. just minimalist code size. 15:06:42 i just noticed I could get this thing down to even less 15:06:52 it had multiply, divide, modulo, cal, and return, all of which can go 15:06:53 :) 15:07:34 ain't modulo a bit redundant if you have divide ? 15:07:45 Frek: its pretty much remainder 15:07:53 Frek: actually, I believe I combined the two 15:07:57 :) 15:08:06 divmod is nice though. since implementing them by hand is rather slow. multiply is hardly any slower to do by hand. so you could do soemthing weird like that. 15:08:15 arke: I know what modulus does :) 15:08:18 you can get rid of multiply and divide, and instead have a subtract+shift instruction 15:08:30 Frek: :) 15:09:09 arke, I didn't have a real call or return. you just used one of the eight registers as a stack pointer and popped into another register. if that register was a program counter, that was your return. 15:09:19 slava, that's a good idea. 15:09:41 :) 15:09:43 hrm 15:10:01 ooh, no 15:10:04 i remember what i did 15:10:23 MDM - multiply, then divide with modulus 15:10:27 and since push/pop worked on any register, you could have 8 indepedent stacks if you wanted. :) 15:10:38 5 operands - to fit it all, it was restricted to one register "bank" 15:10:39 :) 15:11:05 OrngeTide: aah, dedicated push/pop, cool 15:12:50 i know how evil register banks are when doing C compilers. so all registers are all accessable at all times. and they all can be used the same way in all operations. 15:13:42 OrngeTide: yeah. I'm writing down a fresh set right now, and I'll avoid it at all costs :) 15:13:52 except for a push/pop tweak I did so you can access local variables in C or implement PICK in one operation. 15:14:33 * crc dislikes pick.... 15:14:49 i ended up with basically two different pops and one push. one of the pops was tied to indexing a specific register for the stack, then took a parameter for the destination and an offset index. 15:14:56 crc, I dislike pick too. 15:15:12 000sub 15:15:12 001mdm 15:15:12 010lhi 15:15:12 011mov 15:15:12 100lod 15:15:14 101sto 15:15:17 110rlm 15:15:19 111xor 15:15:22 the 8 instructions 15:15:25 :) 15:15:48 note that theres no "jump" --- pc is an addresssable register :) 15:15:50 that's too few, imo 15:15:59 arke, how do you do conditional jump? 15:16:05 I don't mind plenty of instructions 15:16:07 OrngeTide: skips 15:16:25 arke, skips? you mean you had a thing to skip the next operation? 15:16:31 RISC is not about having few instructions anyway; it's about having simple instructions that don't do several operations 15:16:32 OrngeTide, i presume you add a computed value to pc 15:16:36 hrm.. i wasted bits in my instructions to have every one of them conditional... 15:17:11 OrnOrnaah. You have a boolean value, do whatever, and add it to the PC, which will skip x amount of instructions forward :) 15:17:21 OrngeTide: actualyy, maybe it would be better to go the ARM route... 15:17:30 risc == simple instructions, fixed instruction size, and a preference to load-store over memory-based operations 15:17:48 oh dear god the internet is slow 15:17:55 arke, well i think it depends on how big your instruction word is. if it's like 8bits, then the skip way would make a lot of sense. 15:18:37 do you have flags after operations that you can load as a boolean value (like with a shift and mask?) 15:19:14 ultimate risc has only 1 instruction. reverse subtract, then jump if not negative. 15:19:45 Nah, it has the [ ] + > subset of bf. 2-bit instructions. ;) 15:20:04 what? 15:20:04 bf is the shit 15:20:08 brainfuck 15:20:25 :) 15:21:30 OrngeTide: maybe have CPU flags Overflow, Zero, and Carry/Underflow, and have 4 bits at the start of the word which determines if this instruction is to be executed based on the flag results from the previous one 15:21:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URISC .. only 1 instruction. meaning you need 0-bits to encode the operation. I guess it's "Reverse subtract and skip if borrow" 15:22:08 OISC was "subtract and branch if negative". URISC only requires a single paramater. OISC had to have two 15:22:11 subtract and jump if negative, but thats the same thing :) 15:22:28 arke, I ended up only have room for 3 flags on a 16-bit iword. 15:22:39 OrngeTide: thats enough though 15:22:48 OrngeTide: carry, overflow, zero, and none 15:22:51 4 bits :) 15:22:56 yea. that gives you 8 useful things. 15:23:05 none? 15:23:07 err, 2 bits 15:23:14 yeah, if its 0, it doesnt branch at all 15:23:15 :) 15:23:34 hrm 15:23:40 3 bits, one for each flag, would work too 15:23:40 I wanted to support 1, >, <, >=, <=, ==, !=, 0 15:23:41 :) 15:23:57 although the 0 thing is optional. it's only there to be symmetric. I suppose I could have just stuck something else there. 15:26:22 tathi, rlwinm r18,r18,0,0,28 seems to set r18 to 0 15:27:31 then internally the 3 bits would map to one of eight, eight byte values. 4-bits to mask flag checking, and 4-bits for the flag's value if it's unmasked. (sort of a three-state setup) 15:27:50 i thought about doing my chip in an fpga and everything. but it turns out i'm not that ambitious. 15:28:23 I'm more interested in implementing an L4 kernel or a pocket computer 15:28:37 heh 15:28:46 L4 is cool :) 15:29:29 i was working on an L4 for ARM to run on my Gumstix. but I blew up the flash because of a uboot bug 15:29:38 and now I have to build my own jtag cables to fix it:( 15:31:26 :( 15:31:56 if only there was a cheap and easy way to put either TV-out or LCD on an LPC2xxx ARM chip. I'd make myself an unusual portable computer in a heart beat. 15:32:38 I was actually working on a voice-only PDA with the gumstix + bluetooth headset. but I couldn't come up with a way to edit source code via voice command. :P 15:37:00 :P 15:40:05 hrm.. this graphic cell phone display for $18 sounds promising to hook to just about anything. http://store.earthlcd.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.427/.f 15:40:20 i think i have enough gpios to hook it to my gumstix even.... hrmmm!! 15:41:07 128x128 color with an 8-bit bus (has chipselect line even) 15:42:33 slava: hmm...works here. Are you sure you're assembling the right instruction? 15:42:43 tathi, gdb seems to think so 15:42:47 i'll keep looking 15:44:01 huh. 15:45:20 54: 3a 40 ff ff li r18,-1 15:45:21 58: 56 52 00 38 rlwinm r18,r18,0,0,28 15:45:32 if I do that, I wind up with r18 = 0xfffffff8 15:45:41 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@c-24-218-95-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:45:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 15:48:04 Hi, Herkamire. 15:48:28 hi Robert 15:50:28 0x3309b030: add r18,r19,r19 15:50:32 this sets r18 to r19+r19? damn 15:50:42 tathi, that was the problem... i was supposed to be adding r19 to r18. 15:50:54 slava: yes 15:52:31 oops 16:00:36 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 16:01:13 --- join: T0paz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 16:01:17 --- quit: T0paz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:16:38 --- nick: nanstm -> tiff 16:17:51 Frek: I just read the logs from yesterday. What was your Open Firmware related project? 16:18:25 "To place the production rate in perspective, MIT chose the NOR ICs in the fall of 1962 and by the summer of 1963, 60% of the [34] total U.S. output of microcircuits was being used in Apollo prototype construction" 16:19:18 heh 16:19:23 Herkamire: just some random drivers during the time when I was working on maconlinux 16:19:47 drivers? really? 16:19:58 I need drivers 16:20:41 usb keyboard and graphics card 16:20:46 the usb stuff is almost done 16:21:24 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 16:21:40 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 16:22:41 Herkamire: yea, although it wasn't fcode drivers; but more of just setting up an initial bridge I didn't get it to work as I hoped for though so I picked an alternate path later on, but anyway that's pretty much all of my forth experience 16:24:28 ahh 16:25:01 I haven't done much with drivers, but I get the impression the hard part is mostly finding documentation and putting all the pieces together 16:25:20 the documentation is not at all organized for someone making an OS 16:25:41 Does herkforth run under OF currently? 16:26:12 tathi: I don't think so. my current copy doesn't. I think I've commited some non-working stuff. 16:26:36 the last release works in OF I believe 16:27:13 I was going to leave it broken until I've changed the source format 16:27:23 then I'll be able to swap the definitions for the linux ones 16:27:28 and not have any duplicate names 16:29:44 ok 16:30:41 did you want to work on it? 16:31:26 Herkamire: well documentation isn't really an issue when you're dealing with an emulator/runtime environment :) 16:31:48 I was thinking I might wait until you changed the source format 16:32:18 I got tired of breaking the dang thing because I couldn't follow the load sequence. :) 16:32:51 yeah 16:33:00 I'm pretty sick of the load sequence too 16:33:19 actually, now that I think about it, I could just play with it in my little punctuated forth. 16:33:27 that runs under OF just fine. 16:33:30 :) 16:34:13 could write documentation too 16:34:14 :) 16:34:18 and, I'm off to work 16:34:20 yeah. 16:34:21 or did you already 16:34:28 no, don't think I did. 16:35:06 I was still missing a piece or two; I wanted to wait on docs until I actually had something working. 16:35:22 heh 16:36:55 do we have some kind of example code and/or tutorial thing up someplace on how to get your code to boot and access OF's stdin/stdout? 16:37:16 I think I have a small code example around somewhere. 16:37:28 OF docs are pretty good, but to me there's nothing like a dirt simple working example 16:37:55 yeah, I used some version of your example code, I just don't remember if it's online 16:37:55 Yeah, got one of those. Actually, I need to change it so it does a hd read rather than write, so it's safer. 16:38:09 yeah :) 16:38:45 How to Corrupt Your Harddrive in 6 Easy Steps! 16:39:52 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3708201.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 16:41:11 yeah, it's linked from your wiki. 16:42:10 cool 16:42:26 reminds me of this article: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html 16:42:40 :) 16:45:06 great title :) 16:47:01 --- quit: tathi ("rebooting") 16:51:41 --- join: aum (~aum@60-234-138-239.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 16:51:53 The world needs a "teach yourself programming in 90 seconds" 16:52:18 just to further trivialize my career. 16:54:32 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:54:52 OrngeTide: did you look at the begining of that article? 16:57:15 yea. it's pretty good. I've bookmarked it. 16:58:52 Two more years... 16:59:46 hrm.. i've been doing C since about 1994 17:00:21 It didn't really click until like 1998 ... I haven't done hardly any forth. 17:00:29 i'd say i have about 10 more years before I'm a forth expert :P 17:00:33 yeah, me too, maybe 1995 or 96 17:01:00 I started fiddling with BASIC in about 1993 17:01:03 Herkamire, it's hard for me to estimate because I have pascal and c intermingled. I started with c, then did some pascal, then did some more c, then back to pascal. 17:01:20 OrngeTide: they aren't very different are they? 17:01:23 oh I did basic in 1982-83 17:01:37 what's the [semi-]standard forth word for getting the return stk ptr? 17:01:45 Herkamire, not really. basically the same thing, with a bit more to do with pointers in C. 17:02:20 aum, there is one? often the return stack is opaque. 17:03:00 dunno, I never learned a forth I didn't write in that much detail 17:03:37 well, i'm using 'rsp@' 17:03:44 i mucked around with pygmy a bunch. and you could get at the return stack pointer pretty easily. I forget how to do it. but I can't imagine anyone else does it the same way 17:03:44 hmm, looks like RP@ and RP! 17:04:00 tathi, really? hrm 17:04:09 well, IsForth has those. 17:04:29 IsForth isn't meant to be very standard. :) 17:04:35 and...ANS mentions them as "non-standard" words in A.9 when it talks about implementing CATCH and THROW 17:04:38 They're shorter, thus better. ;) 17:04:44 but RP@ and RP! are good names for it. 17:05:20 I really badly want to write my own forth for some small system. 17:06:07 I have an HP200LX palmtop .. but then i'd just be doing 16-bit 8086 forth, which is not all that interesting. 17:06:14 the trouble being...finding a nice small system? :) 17:06:29 perhaps an LPC2xxx ARM chip would be fun. 17:06:30 http://sbrune.com/COSMAC/FORTH.ASM :) 17:07:05 That arch would allow some pretty heavy register caching. 17:07:10 could put one of those cheap PalmOS keyboards on it as a serial port. and get an LCD from earthLCD 17:07:54 Olimex sells LPCs on a 40-pin dip carrier board. so it can fit in the breadboard. also you get like 128kB of flash and 64kB of ram. which isn't bad. although you can't build up a massive dictionary. 17:08:12 LPCs? 17:08:32 tathi, it's an ARM7tdmi from Philips. it's got flash, ram, etc all on one chip. 17:08:43 That's pretty massive, ihmo. 17:09:10 Got a link to that board btw? 17:09:18 Or the company... olimex.com ? 17:09:29 http://www.olimex.com/dev/lpc-h40.html 17:09:53 gobs of I/Os and the chip runs 60Mhz. you can run 32bit or 16bit(thumb) instructions on it. 17:09:56 I'd love to have a handheld or wearable computer 17:10:08 something tiny running forth 17:10:13 gobs of I/Os is good. 17:10:26 Herkamire, that's basically what I'm thinking of. a cost-effective forth-based wearable/handheld/toteable 17:10:28 I like the looks of the gumstix, except they seem kind of limited in the I/O department. 17:10:53 my major concern is displays 17:11:01 tathi, yea. although the version that has the bus means you can plug any CF card into it. so you could put usb host, or 802.11, or even SCSI on it. 17:11:41 Herkamire, earthlcd seems to have a $18 color 128x128 w/ LED backlight. it's for a cellphone. but they have PDF specs on there. uses some 8-bit data + a few control pins. 17:11:51 kinda like one of those hitachi displays. 17:11:59 that LCD is pretty tiny though. 17:11:59 except this color display does graphics 17:12:07 maybe for a head-mounted display, I suppose. 17:12:14 tathi, it make a massive forth wrist-watch though 17:12:19 oh, true. :) 17:12:48 I'm not into watches 17:13:14 timeline, inc usually sells larger displays. I have a 640x200 monochrome display like 8" diagonal. but it is very raw. it has a DAC in it, but you have to feed the DAC data and update the framebuffer. 17:13:31 maybe I could get a cool wearable display 17:13:45 there was something cool on a picture of Jef 17:13:50 cool displays are either expensive or difficult ot wire up:( 17:14:41 like a small cheap processor isn't able to inface to a nice head mounted display. since those are VGA, and need a real video controller and RAMDAC. 17:15:09 even doing NTSC/PAL is tough since a PIC can generate the signal, but it can't generate the signal and read a dual-ported RAM fast enough. 17:15:32 cool :) I'm going to go see a movie 17:15:54 doing it all on a gameboy advance isn't a bad idea. 240x160 lcd. add a keyboard and you have a computer with an itty bitty display. 17:15:57 seeya 17:16:13 there is even an FPGA board for gameboy advance (look up XPort 2.0) 17:16:20 those things are properly amazing 17:16:48 :) 17:17:02 yeah, displays don't seem to be going the way to suit my taste 17:17:16 I'd really like something a bit simpler. More like Handspring's Visor. 17:17:21 I'm more interested in contrast and resolution than color and backlight 17:17:36 only set up so it could be used for development on the handheld, of course. 17:17:36 hrm. that LPC dev thing from olimex costs more than a gameboy advance.. although the processor is clocked about 5x faster. 17:17:56 I'd be pretty happy taking an old black and white palm (palm V or visor or something) and moving the buttons to the edge 17:17:58 gba has a lot more ram and flash and expandability. plus a display 17:18:10 and reprogramming it with forth and chorded key input 17:18:23 Herkamire, yea. I like a nice mono high-contrast LCD. 17:18:34 problem is it's too fragile 17:18:37 I tried chorded key inputs. it was kinda disappointing. 17:18:41 * tathi wants eInk to come out with a display that I can buy. :) 17:18:47 yeah 17:18:54 I'm not into touch screens either 17:18:59 say...a 4.7" 320x240 display. 17:19:07 a palm velcroed to your one arm and a twiddler in the other hand would not be too bad though. 17:19:21 I'd rather have something like eink behind (or built onto the back of) some plexiglass 17:19:41 you can get PalmIIIs as refurbs cheaply. I have one in my junk bin. plus palm has an emulator so making a forth for it wouldn't be too bad. 17:19:53 Herkamire, gumstix is used for an eInk prototype. 17:19:55 good point 17:19:59 i just wish I could get some eInk. 17:20:03 coool 17:20:37 yeah. They had a little demo kit for a short while. 17:20:48 unfortunately they dropped it pretty quickly. :( 17:20:52 the reason I'm interested in a display that you can wear on your head is that it seems the only way to make it look big, while still being able to be small and rugged 17:20:54 tearing a palm apart isn't a bad idea either. although it's not very expandable. at least for gameboy I have a card that can read my 1Gb compactflash card. :) 17:21:13 heh 17:21:24 a gaming system might be better 17:21:39 Herkamire, my eyes can focus on a small display pretty well. one of the advances to being horribly near sighted. 17:21:41 the ratio of computing power to graphics power that I need leans heavily to graphics 17:22:07 hrm. well GBA has a slick graphics engine. does sprites and rotation&scaling 17:22:24 oh, I can see just fine, it's just that the palm screens are kinda fragile, and sometimes I get sick of holding them up 17:22:37 perfect 17:22:41 and you can install a board on it and have TV-output if you want to get really perverse:) 17:22:41 I just want sprites and scaling 17:23:19 tv out would be neat 17:23:55 then you take the tv-out and plug them into some of those tv privacy goggles/glasses that you can somtimes find for under $100 17:24:14 heh :) 17:24:20 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 17:24:33 hrm. looks like most of htem are $350 now. 17:24:53 I should've bought them at the surplus shop for $90 when I saw them. but I thought. "it's just cruddy blurry NTSC" 17:26:13 oh I got it. get a $25 black&white battery powered tv set. rip apart a gba and install the tv-out thing. perhaps buy a broken one for next to nothing. add a keyboard. and now you have a battery powered luggable computer. 17:26:25 it would be pretty evil to do anything on. :) 17:27:03 anyways. i'm going to brave memorial day weekend traffic. seeya. 17:36:55 --- join: virl (anonymous@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 17:37:20 goodnight 17:39:24 --- join: Sonarman (~cleetus@adsl-64-169-93-30.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:40:46 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:44:55 --- join: KB1FYR|LT (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 17:45:45 --- quit: KB1FYR (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:46:18 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 17:53:48 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-55-160.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:53:48 --- quit: tiff (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:07:25 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 19:40:41 --- part: LuckyPhil left #forth 20:43:28 --- join: AlexF (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 21:03:32 --- quit: KB1FYR (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:25:43 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 21:30:26 Back from work! 22:12:20 http://216.117.199.231/RX7/Mazda-RX7-007.jpg 22:12:20 BEST PICTURE EVAR 22:50:10 --- quit: aum () 22:56:26 Thanks arke, I was looking for a new wallpaper. 22:57:31 :) 22:57:38 perdy cool, eh? 22:57:38 :) 22:57:43 Very much so. 23:01:06 Makes me wish I had a few spare bucks... :-) 23:03:12 :) 23:06:52 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-55-160.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 23:09:31 --- quit: KB1FYR|LT (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 23:23:51 --- quit: slava ("USE: factor") 23:25:16 --- join: I440r (~mark4@rrcs-24-242-160-169.sw.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.05.27