00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.05.11 00:31:56 --- quit: I440r_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:00:35 --- join: Raystm2_ (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-56-205.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 01:06:26 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:52:51 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 02:03:02 --- join: Teratogen (leontopod@intertwingled.net) joined #forth 04:55:02 --- quit: bbls () 05:58:43 --- quit: madwork ("*frotz*") 05:58:58 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:01:59 Hi. 06:02:46 --- join: tkb (~tkb@63.163.164.6) joined #forth 06:03:20 Hi. 06:05:28 Hi. 08:44:50 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.4) joined #forth 08:44:52 hello 08:46:16 Hi. 08:46:25 hi Robert 08:55:55 --- nick: Raystm2_ -> nanstm 09:06:58 --- join: snoopy_1711 (snoopy_161@p54A7DFFE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:17:38 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:17:47 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 09:52:08 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@c-24-218-95-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:52:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 10:17:46 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:49:11 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 11:00:25 --- part: tkb left #forth 11:00:39 --- quit: madwork ("*frotz*") 11:00:44 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 11:28:53 --- quit: Frek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:34:22 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h68n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 12:15:28 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-24-1-126-202.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:32:02 --- join: Topaz (~top@cerberus.saywell.net) joined #forth 13:02:10 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 13:02:11 --- quit: KB1FYR|sleep (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:05:06 --- join: AlexF (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 13:13:35 --- quit: KB1FYR (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 13:13:59 --- quit: bbls () 14:00:41 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:36:36 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 14:47:30 --- join: Topaz (~top@cerberus.saywell.net) joined #forth 14:53:14 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:31:27 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16:54:31 ok, html help? 16:55:02 I'm trying to learn to use divs instead of tables where possible 16:55:08 I want a navbar accross the left 16:55:15 so I did
16:55:35 but I but I want the height of the div to go the full height of the page 16:56:06 (I have a border-right on the div also, to seperate the navbar from the main content 16:56:38
didn't work 16:57:01 --- quit: Robert ("This quit message is not to be taken seriously.") 18:30:36 --- join: Sonarman (~cleetus@adsl-66-124-254-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 18:56:23 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:58:30 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-56-205.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 18:59:09 --- join: Robert__ (~snofs@c-f778e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 19:00:20 --- nick: Robert__ -> Robert 19:23:00 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 19:27:42 --- quit: Al2O3 (Remote closed the connection) 19:35:25 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:40:36 --- join: tathi_ (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:57:08 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:01:44 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:36:34 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.4) joined #forth 21:36:43 hi bbls 21:36:47 hi slava 21:37:13 i've just got a such great IPC idea for a microkernel :) 21:37:23 then implement it 21:38:06 it will have to wait until i finish the current projects :( 21:38:13 what are they? 21:38:41 the programming language is the first thing 21:39:24 what language is this? 21:40:23 subroutine threaded forth with lisp capabilities 21:40:59 lisp capabilities? 21:40:59 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 21:41:37 like factor 21:41:56 my namespace stack is at compile time 21:42:17 can you give more details? 21:42:24 you're making a joy-like language? 21:42:30 no 21:42:41 it's just lisp 21:42:44 neither lisp or joy have namespace stacks 21:42:55 that's a feature from postscript that factor borrowed 21:43:22 i need namespace stacks in order to add support for integers or strings at runtime 21:43:38 i don't get it 21:43:44 first of all, what kind of memory management are you doing? 21:44:09 the words are statically allocated into object code 21:44:24 : places a label in object code 21:44:42 ; places a return and marks length of word 21:44:49 right, but i mean your lists and strings 21:44:52 immediate flags the word as immediate 21:44:56 inline as inlined 21:50:35 are you ther? 21:51:33 yes 21:51:41 sorry, i was talking on osdev 21:51:49 i use a large number of cells 21:51:57 just like lisp 21:52:11 'a large number of cells'? 21:52:12 plus a large number of allocated fixnums, strings, etc 21:52:13 what is a cell? 21:52:29 sorry, a cons in lisp terminology :) 21:52:36 bbls: how are you handling memory? 21:52:51 a million little allocate/free calls? 21:53:05 bbls, how are you reclaiming cells and such? 21:53:17 bbls, there's more to a lisp than conses, btw, any decent lisp supports dozens of types 21:53:33 slava i use a simple counter per cell 21:53:41 reference counting? 21:53:42 ugh 21:54:06 bbls, read this, NOW: http://factor.sourceforge.net/GarbageCollection.pdf 21:54:15 ok, but that's less important now 21:54:21 section 3 and section 4 21:54:27 incremental and generational garbage collection 21:54:29 what i want first is to get it fully working (the syntax part) 21:54:38 reference counting will doom the implementation to being a toy 21:56:43 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 22:05:16 slava again, this is just a detail 22:06:36 well, a copying collector is the same amount of work as reference counting, but its much more efficient 22:06:45 there's no point in not having a good design at the beginning 22:07:17 well, i'm more interested at this point about the language rather the implementation 22:08:00 what other features does it have? 22:09:05 i'm working on finding a way to add quotations 22:09:17 i was a more or less lisp in the end 22:09:44 are you going to have lexical or dynamic scope? 22:09:56 lexical 22:10:02 using the namespace stack 22:10:10 in factor, quotations are just lists, but with lexical scope you need a bit more book-keeping 22:10:46 the problem with that is that i'm not sure if you can generate good asm code 22:10:57 why not? 22:11:15 factor's compiler uses partial evaluation and lifting so that at runtime, its not really iterating through lists 22:11:27 nowdays its as fast as any forth 22:18:46 --- quit: Frek ("Client exiting") 22:21:51 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h68n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 22:46:33 slava is it there any way to generate factor code for an os kernel? 22:46:56 yes, as with any other language 22:47:25 the docs contain sufficient info on this? 22:48:14 no, we don't have a 'generating os kernel' guide... 22:48:23 :) 22:48:41 how large is the factor core? 22:49:20 the runtime is 7 thousand lines of C 22:49:39 hmm, too large for a microkernel 22:50:04 umm, its an 87kb executable 23:27:01 this includes just core language functions or functions such os api support? 23:27:41 no, you need an image in addition to the runtime, containing factor code 23:27:54 ah 23:28:15 an image ranges from 600 to 3000kb or so, depending on what you include 23:29:03 why is to large? 23:29:14 currently my code is 4kb 23:29:20 that's because your code does nothing 23:29:40 well, i already can start conding the kernel 23:29:46 *coding 23:29:56 well, i'm trying to develop something useful 23:30:06 small size is not really relevant 23:34:41 for me it is 23:35:41 why? are you interested in building something useful or just an academic exercise? 23:35:58 for personal use 23:36:19 i'm going to be making games, web applications and doing math calculations 23:38:03 you can't fit much of a library in 4kb 23:38:16 i don't need a library 23:38:27 that's going to be in user space 23:39:31 user space/kernel space is a meaningless distinction in a dynamic language 23:39:43 if factor was the OS, the kernel would be the 87kb runtime, and the 'user space' would be the image 23:39:50 everything would be user space, pretty much 23:40:01 and you wouldn't need memory protection 23:41:23 i want to allow programs written in other languages too 23:41:41 althrought this is not that important 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.05.11