00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.05.10
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06:17:17 <Robert> Hi
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06:34:44 <Robert> Hi
06:35:01 <solar_angel> heya robert.
06:36:48 <madwork> Yo yo yo, word up my forthy homboyeeeeeez!
06:37:09 * Robert sings a little to cheer madwork up,
06:37:25 <madwork> Thanks! :D
06:37:36 <madwork> Hey, my cat came home last night!
06:37:41 <madwork> He was missing for about 5 days.
06:38:04 <Robert> I hate doing easy tasks in unnecessarily complex ways.
06:38:12 * Robert dislikes school a little.
06:38:21 <madwork> Robert: , yes, some people seem to get off on that.
06:39:43 <Robert> Actually, being in #forth I sometimes see those tendencies in myself, but I hate being forced to do it.
06:41:25 <solar_angel> heheheh.
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06:56:04 <Robert> It's "hrmpf", you English-speaking...
07:26:39 <madwork> hrmph is correct
07:27:17 <Robert> No.
07:27:24 * Robert refuses to accept that.
07:28:18 <madwork> Why? 
07:28:47 <Robert> It's WRONG.
07:29:10 <madwork> Sorry, but... this tells it like it is: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=hrmph&word2=hrmpf
07:31:20 <Robert> en_GB? That's so wrong.
07:31:38 <Robert> se_SV
07:31:44 <Robert> si teh shite
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07:32:29 <Robert> Hi
07:32:37 <sproingie> hey
07:32:48 * Robert found a shortware rig below all these layers of junk.
07:33:03 <sproingie> i have sort of a silly question
07:33:26 <Robert> They're always welcome.
07:33:34 <sproingie> i have a sort of beginners-mind approach to forth ... because i am a beginner ;)  so i see it as a sort of low-level OO type language
07:33:35 <Robert> As far as they don't initiate a religious war.
07:34:09 <Robert> Traditional Forth isn't much about OO I think, although there are some OO-friendly variants.
07:34:17 <sproingie> where every operation is basically data then word, or the word operating on the implicit object on the stack top
07:35:59 <Robert> Hm, well, if you think of integers as objects...
07:36:04 <sproingie> sort of mapping the oo mindset to forth, words being like methods acting on stack top
07:36:11 <madwork> Or addresses of objects, or handles to objects...
07:36:32 <madwork> sproingie, Forth is so malleable that you can mold it to whatever purpose you desire.
07:37:00 <sproingie> what trips me up is when something takes multiple args ... is it usual to pass them in reverse order?
07:37:26 <Robert> Pass them in the most convenient order.
07:37:38 <sproingie> e.g. 3d... is it usually "x y z w make-quaternion" or "w z y x make-quaternion"
07:38:06 <madwork> Sure. ;)
07:38:08 <Robert> 5 arguments is usually a pain in the ass to deal with.
07:38:10 <sproingie> or does one use parse syntax like :quat x y z w ;
07:38:19 <sproingie> inventing parse words along the way
07:38:37 * sproingie is kind of seduced by that last approach
07:38:39 <madwork> You do what works best for you.
07:39:10 <sproingie> just wondering if any of these tend to become tarpits, like OO programmers foolishly using inheritance for everything
07:40:49 <sproingie> newbie oo programmers anyway
07:41:05 * sproingie tends to foolishly use composition when inheritance would do :)
07:43:14 <madwork> Well, Forth won't restrict you to any one way of doing things. It's all about freedom.
07:45:16 <sproingie> guess as long as everything works together...  maybe i'll try out the parse words, makes it compile-time checked too
07:45:45 <sproingie> speaking of compile time ... anyone ever manage to nick a download of strongforth before it disappeared into The Nothing?
07:51:48 <Robert> Nope.
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11:58:01 <Robert> Hi there.
11:58:30 <bbls> hi
11:58:47 <Robert> (yes, I'm rob_ert)
11:59:24 <bbls> ah :)
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13:21:03 <zoly> g'day
13:21:16 <Robert> Hoi
13:22:01 <zoly> ha, the_rob
13:23:19 <Robert> I revealed my secret identity to bbls today.
13:25:57 <zoly> romanian bbls ?
13:26:16 <Robert> Yeah.
13:26:34 <Robert> My secret self, as rob_ert the Minix user.
13:27:34 <zoly> ypnbert
13:28:00 <Robert> That's my second dirty secret.
13:28:08 <zoly> no secrets here
13:29:32 <zoly> i found out yesterday what engine is in the car i've been using the last 2 weeks
13:29:45 <Robert> A pony?
13:29:53 <zoly> (been wondering about it a bit cause it accelerated quite ... well ..
13:29:54 <zoly> )
13:30:12 <zoly> lotus engine with 340 horse power
13:30:29 <Robert> No idea what that means, but OK.
13:31:07 <zoly> that means it was about 5.5 times the power of my car ...
13:32:09 <Robert> Neat.
13:34:57 <zoly> my car has about twice the weight too
13:35:15 <Robert> Heh, OK.
13:35:23 <zoly> (but being seriously underpowered)
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13:35:38 * Robert comes to think of high-voltage CPUs for some reason.
13:36:09 <Robert> I saw that the early 1802s could take over 10V without bursting into flames.
13:36:28 <zoly> what;s good about it (besides better noise/signal ratio) ?
13:36:54 <zoly> voltage doesn't heat up, current does
13:37:00 <zoly> well, power does. 
13:37:05 <Robert> Well, it's just a funny thought, considering how modern CPUs are killed by like 2V.
13:37:40 <zoly> by the product of voltage across the device, and the current flowing through
13:38:27 <zoly> fifth of the voltage, but 50 and more times the current  ...
13:38:38 <Robert> Hehe, yeah...
13:38:56 <Robert> Pretty amazing. Hard to believe a few mm^2 are eating like 100A.
13:39:24 <zoly> not really
13:40:11 <zoly> current is about proportional to gate count, and number of gate transitions per time unit
13:40:31 <zoly> means, more gates, higher clock -> much higher current
13:41:00 <Robert> Yes, of cours... but the power levels included are those you associate with a microwave oven.
13:41:07 <Robert> Not with a very small IC.
13:41:35 <zoly> some architectural aspects of course too, like complexity (number of gates involved for operation)
13:42:16 <zoly> not quite. microwave oven is easily 800 ...1600 watts
13:42:29 <Robert> Max power, yes.
13:42:40 <zoly> power is watts
13:43:12 <Robert> But the low-power levels used for frozen bread is usually around 100-200W
13:43:30 <zoly> throttled 
13:44:40 <zoly> a solder iron for electronics consumes considerably less power than a high-clocked x86 CPU
13:44:47 <Robert> Yes.
13:45:05 * Robert is usually running his at the lowest clock speed supported.
13:45:24 <zoly> not sure whether that gains you anything
13:45:36 <zoly> if idle mode works well
13:46:34 <zoly> wether you do x operations in time t1 or time t2 has not much effect on the overall power dissipation
13:46:58 <zoly> clocked down means, the cpu has less opportunity to go idle
13:47:02 <Robert> It never gets as hot, and the fan never runs.
13:50:16 <zoly> i tend to overclock a bit
13:50:54 <Robert> This is a laptop.
13:51:03 <zoly> but as the machine is more likely to run with low load, the temperature is usually just as low as when running with nominal speed
13:51:05 <Robert> Overclocking means frying your lap.
13:51:16 <zoly> it only heats up more when i keep it busy
13:51:19 <Robert> Especially when loading it a bit
13:51:26 <Robert> Video, compilation...
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13:57:07 <zoly> wanna see some pic of my current whereabout ?
13:57:14 <Robert> Sure.
13:58:21 <zoly> ttp://forthfreak.logilan.com/bilder/pc1.jpg  computer shack downstairs
13:59:05 <zoly> http://forthfreak.logilan.com/bilder/biergarten1.jpg  front view building
13:59:18 <Robert> Neat, neat.
13:59:36 <zoly> http://forthfreak.logilan.com/bilder/pc1.jpg  that url was incomplete i think
14:00:02 <Robert> Yeah, but I made a little guess about the protocol...
14:00:04 <zoly> http://forthfreak.logilan.com/bilder/bar1.jpg  looking out of downstairs computer shack
14:00:24 <zoly> http://forthfreak.logilan.com/bilder/hinten.jpg  view from behind
14:00:28 <Robert> cosy
14:00:42 <zoly> http://forthfreak.logilan.com/bilder/pc2.jpg  landlord
14:01:01 <zoly> http://forthfreak.logilan.com/bilder/i6.jpg  boss
14:01:05 <Robert> Hehe, he looks happy
14:01:39 <Robert> Hm, not sure about the second one
14:01:50 <Robert> Happy and scary.
14:02:03 <zoly> bit shy about having fotos made of her
14:02:13 <Robert> Especially when tilted.
14:02:39 <zoly> http://forthfreak.logilan.com/bilder/saft1.jpg  refreshment battery
14:03:54 <zoly> don't have the office yet, will do later when i go upstairs
14:04:03 <zoly> that's where the office is
14:04:41 <zoly> unique configuration: espresso machine next to the shower
14:04:46 <Robert> Heh.
14:05:45 <zoly> pushbutton operation. you can have a coffee while being in the shower ...
14:06:16 <Robert> If I were a coffee drinker, that would sound pretty good.
14:06:24 <Herkamire> zoly: can you use javascript to output part of a page?
14:06:29 <Herkamire> and have the browser display it?
14:06:39 <Herkamire> like when a browser is halfway through downloading a file
14:06:52 <zoly> Herkamire: you mean like, generating html to display it while it is generated ?
14:07:02 <Herkamire> right
14:07:05 <Herkamire> progressive
14:07:15 <zoly> i *think* so
14:07:33 <Herkamire> I've been reading up on the PNG image format to see how hard it would be to generate
14:07:33 <zoly> depends
14:07:50 <zoly> where does the source to generate html from come from ?
14:07:55 <Herkamire> looks doable
14:08:07 <Herkamire> generated by javascript
14:08:16 <zoly> generated what from ?
14:08:40 <Herkamire> my crazy code?
14:08:42 <zoly> i mean, how does js know what html to generate?
14:08:47 <Herkamire> maybe something I write in jsforth
14:09:07 <Herkamire> I code something in javascript or jsforth to output hmtl code
14:09:59 <zoly> right. to my knowledge, javascript allows to display what is generated, the moment you ask it to. but i haven't added anything to that end to jsforth
14:10:36 <zoly> most output jsforth does is the form, which it used to emulate a terminal
14:10:36 <Herkamire> oh, I thought jsforth wrote out html code to a frame or something
14:10:49 <zoly> there is an iframe you can load html into
14:10:58 <zoly> i suppose you can generate html into that too
14:11:06 <Herkamire> cool
14:11:24 <zoly> that frame is the last "window", which shows the logo upon start
14:11:27 <Herkamire> can you do this by writing in jsforth language? or would you have to hack in javascript to make it happen?
14:12:07 <zoly> i think i'd have to add to jsforth, if it needs to be generated (vs loaded from url)
14:12:23 <Herkamire> I've been figuring out the PNG format, and implementing in herkforth. It's 66% done. it should be pretty easy for me to port it to any language
14:12:37 <Herkamire> ok
14:12:57 <zoly> sounds cool. interesting
14:13:00 <Herkamire> would you want to do that sometime?
14:13:38 <Herkamire> I definitely want to try this sometime
14:13:43 <zoly> i think i might be interested to do some work on that
14:14:47 <Herkamire> I would be very happy if I could just write something in your forth to spit out the html code for the image
14:14:56 <zoly> i like the notion of jsforth being able to do graphics
14:15:03 <Herkamire> yeah :)
14:15:22 <Herkamire> I like the idea of possibly being able to write web applets in forth!
14:15:28 <zoly> generating html to another frame should require a few primitives only
14:16:14 <Herkamire> it would be cool if you could redirect output
14:16:35 <Herkamire> like >>other-frame 1 3 + . >>normal
14:16:37 <zoly> javascript has some support already for generating html
14:16:50 <zoly> no need to generate everything by hand
14:17:09 <Herkamire> need to generate the image tag
14:17:19 <zoly> but it would be necessary top allow html "literals" too
14:17:25 <zoly> to ..
14:17:54 <Herkamire> literals?
14:18:06 <zoly> from forth view
14:18:14 <zoly> raw html text
14:18:15 <Herkamire> I was asuming you'd just make it so we can output any old text characters to the other frame
14:18:24 <Herkamire> leave it up to the programmer to generate valid html
14:19:02 <Herkamire> you were thinking this would be the exception rather than the rule?
14:19:07 <zoly> i did look at that stuff shortly but found it not important for what i was busy with then, when i implemented the terminal centric interface
14:19:19 <zoly> i postponed it for later
14:19:20 <Herkamire> how else would you write hmtl? I'm not farmiliar with how this is done in javascript
14:19:57 <zoly> there are javascript methods for generating html sections upon request
14:20:13 <zoly> basically, you parametrize html templated
14:20:16 <zoly> templates
14:20:24 <Herkamire> oh
14:20:41 <Herkamire> well, at this point, I really just want an <img tag
14:21:04 <zoly> which is supported too afair
14:21:06 <Herkamire> I just need to set a gigantic value for src=
14:22:10 <zoly> be warned though that i'm far from being a javascript expert
14:22:29 <zoly> jsforth was the only thing i did using javascript
14:22:30 <Herkamire> yeah, but you have a forth running in it that can write html out
14:22:49 <Herkamire> I don't even have the general concepts down
14:22:56 <zoly> you got a point there
14:23:01 <Herkamire> I don't understand how javascript interacts with the browser
14:23:26 <Herkamire> I don't know if javascript can keep running
14:23:45 <Herkamire> or if it has to be constantly triggered into action when something happens in the browser
14:23:46 <zoly> the form area i write to is basically a one-dimensional array from javascript view
14:24:07 <zoly> by assigning a string to it, you write to the form
14:25:10 <zoly> yes, you need to bracket the operation with  open.... and close...
14:25:26 <zoly> close writes it out (html, not the form)
14:25:40 <zoly> the form updates upon assigning to it
14:25:43 <zoly> or appending
14:26:17 <zoly> i reckon the render engine knows by close that it has to process the html
14:26:43 <zoly> the document can be opened and closed repetitively
14:27:15 <zoly> open probably just lets it know what has been added since last close
14:27:31 <zoly> that's guessing, though
14:28:28 <zoly> not the part that it can be reopened and closed again, that's what i took from the docs
14:29:30 <zoly> there's some other bit of work i need to do:  embedding forth source in the document which calls the forth interpreter
14:29:44 <zoly> as far jsforth works in interactive mode only
14:30:26 <zoly> but that would be necessary if one would want to forth-script html 
14:33:07 <zoly> source could be loaded from forth blocks, but that's a cludge if you want to embed forth scripts into html
14:34:20 <zoly> Herkamire: re browser interaction: jsforth is stopped whenever it waits for events
14:34:22 <Herkamire> can you open/write/close the whole document?
14:34:27 <zoly> yes
14:34:34 <Herkamire> cool
14:34:41 <Herkamire> can you set the content-type ?
14:34:43 <zoly> for example, upon key. 
14:34:55 <zoly> whole interpreters sits in mem, doing nothing
14:35:19 <zoly> upon keystroke, it is reentered, and executes until it needs more input
14:35:26 <zoly> then it stops again
14:35:44 <zoly> i.e. it is only running as long it executes code
14:36:04 <Herkamire> right
14:36:11 <zoly> fully event driven
14:36:17 <Herkamire> do you know if there's a way to get it so it can keep running?
14:36:21 <Herkamire> in the background sort of thing
14:36:32 <Herkamire> or get called every few ms or something?
14:36:38 <zoly> why ? if it can be reentered, that's all you need
14:36:53 <Herkamire> I want to write slow rendering algorithms
14:37:05 <zoly> it reenters at the forth word following the one which stops it
14:37:12 <zoly> 3 secs    stops it too
14:37:18 <zoly> and restarts it after 3 secs 
14:37:37 <zoly> key,  key?   stop the interpreters as well
14:37:41 <zoly> key? just for 1 ms
14:37:54 <Herkamire> oh cool
14:38:08 <Herkamire> so I can write something that takes a couple minutes to render if I just call key? every once and a while?
14:38:17 <zoly> or  n ms
14:38:20 <zoly> like, pause
14:38:27 <Herkamire> very cool
14:38:28 <Herkamire> that's perfect
14:39:04 <zoly> i have to do that, otherwise javascript wouldn't process any input ,,,
14:39:16 <zoly> cause the script would still be running ...
14:40:53 <zoly> of course it reenters with the full state saved
14:41:37 <zoly> means, interpreter can be interrupted at virtually any point
14:42:06 <zoly> (any point in high-level forth words)
14:42:17 <zoly> interrupting it from primitives is tricky
14:42:27 <zoly> but no need for that
14:43:31 <zoly> because the javascript script has full knowledge of the forth interpreter (being a javascript script), but not of itself 
14:44:17 <zoly> forth interpreter state is fully under control of the script, but not all javascript interpreter states, being the host
14:45:18 <zoly> from the state view, you could consider the primitives as atomic
14:45:48 <zoly> therefore difficult to stop and resume into those
14:46:48 <zoly> doesn't matter because there's no   code ... end-code  to add primitives from jsforth, that would need to modify the jsforth source
14:47:56 <zoly> stopping and resuming interpreter is part of the virtual machine code of jsforth
14:48:06 <zoly> therefore pretty transparent to apps
14:48:45 <zoly> the inner interpreter does that 
14:51:07 <zoly> wouldn't work otherwise, cause i can't poll for events (cause that would require the script to continue running, thereby inhibiting the event ...)
14:51:41 <zoly> and who wants to poll anyway ...
14:51:58 <zoly> begin key? until  key  ....
14:52:35 <Herkamire> very cool
14:52:40 <Herkamire> I think this will work out nicely
14:53:09 <Herkamire> think we could make it so jsforth could be notified about clicks on the image?
14:53:20 <Herkamire> like if we made it part of the form or something
14:53:27 <zoly> yes. mouse clicks are events too
14:53:35 <Herkamire> cool
14:53:39 <zoly> there's an event handler for that in jsforth
14:53:42 <Herkamire> that can come later
14:53:53 <Herkamire> for starters I just want to see if it'll work at all
14:54:05 <Herkamire> (probably will)
14:54:17 <Herkamire> then we'll see just how slow it is
14:54:34 <zoly> jsforth is quicker than i expected it to be
14:54:58 <zoly> i thought it may compete with bashforth for slowness
14:55:07 <zoly> but it is about 25 times quicker
14:56:16 <zoly> still doesn't competer with native code implementations of couse
14:56:21 <zoly> course
14:57:49 <zoly> iirc, it does about 150000 empty loops per second
14:58:25 <zoly> (athlon clocked with 1.9 ghz)
15:02:16 <Herkamire> oh dear
15:02:22 <Herkamire> png stuff will be very slow
15:03:08 <Herkamire> 320x240 color image has 230400 color samples
15:04:36 <Herkamire> we might have to do an image format that doesn't require a checksum
15:06:38 <tathi> lol
15:07:34 <Herkamire> damn shame firefox doesn't support ppm format
15:08:38 <Herkamire> cool thing is, with 24-bit pixels (8 bit each RGB) we could write directly to the BASE64 encoding of the image
15:09:00 <Herkamire> each character in base64 represents 6 bits
15:09:09 <Herkamire> 4 characters is 24 bits
15:09:33 <Herkamire> so we can keep the base64 encoded pixel color in one cell
15:10:01 <Herkamire> this way we wouldn't have to loop through all the pixels in the image to update the display
15:10:16 <Herkamire> just copy the string to the tag in the html
15:12:38 <Herkamire> we can write a little word    : rgb->pixel ( r g b -- pixel )
15:14:12 <Herkamire> tathi: turkeys come through alright?
15:15:41 <tathi> yeah, finally.
15:15:52 <tathi> just this afternoon -- must have come down on the second truck.
15:16:47 <tathi> I think they're doing all right; they're a bit different from chickens.
15:17:03 <tathi> They don't seem to be as good at walking, for instance. :)
15:18:26 <Herkamire> heh
15:18:32 <Herkamire> yeah, they die a lot more too
15:18:48 <Herkamire> you thought chickens were amusing and stupid
15:18:51 <Herkamire> just you wait...
15:19:47 <Herkamire> turkeys are definitely more amusing
15:21:43 <tathi> :)
15:22:34 <tathi> well, it sounds like the people who know what they're doing lose _very_ few turkeys.
15:22:58 <tathi> and...Mom has done her homework, so hopefully not too many of them will die.
15:24:37 <Herkamire> cool
15:24:46 <Herkamire> quite possible we didn't know
15:25:04 <Herkamire> I only remember vaguely, but I think most died within 24 hours
15:25:20 <Herkamire> could be that it's an issue with getting them there safely
15:27:00 <tathi> yeah, sounds like there are a couple of things that are easy to do wrong.
15:27:25 <tathi> but we talked to Bolton's (big family-run commercial turkey farm near here) and they said they have around 1% mortality rate.
15:27:40 <tathi> which is incredible -- with chickens you figure 5-7%
15:28:50 <tathi> it's funny, they all have this little bump on their foreheads.  Looks like a little horn starting to grow. :)
15:30:21 <Herkamire> I find it quite amusing, that of the three browsers I use (w3m, dillo, firefox) the only one that can display ppm/pnm images is w3m
15:30:56 <Herkamire> hehe
15:31:01 <Herkamire> unicorn turkeys! ;)
15:31:12 <Herkamire> it'll grow into a big wrinkly thing I bet
15:33:07 <tathi> firefox doesn't do pnms? weird!
15:33:14 <Herkamire> yeah
15:33:39 <tathi> such a great image file format :)
15:33:45 <Herkamire> yeah :)
15:33:54 <Herkamire> apache is generating good mime types for .ppm and .pnm
15:34:03 <Herkamire> image/x-portable-pixmap
15:34:06 <Herkamire> image/x-portable-anymap
15:40:56 <tathi> huh
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16:01:22 <tathi> Herkamire: http://www.happypenguin.org/show?OpenBubbles
16:01:33 <tathi> crummy implementation, but I like the concept
16:28:04 <zoly> Herkamire: no need to hi-level plot everything with pixels. think graphic primitives: lines, boxes, circles and the like
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18:49:36 <OrngeTide> hi Herk
18:50:12 <Robert> Hi
18:51:16 <Robert> How geeky, spending the night doing unrelated math so I will be too tired for the math (well, logic) lecture tomorrow...
18:51:26 * Robert curses insomnia.
19:03:35 <Herkamire> hi OrngeTide 
19:03:50 <Herkamire> zoly: those things are made out of pixels...
19:07:36 <Herkamire> openbubbles...
19:07:53 <Herkamire> here's the first sentence of it's description ot happypenguin.org: "The goal of OpenBubbles is to grow your own green bubble by eating them up."
19:08:10 <Herkamire> looking at the screenshot made about as muchsense
19:10:17 <Herkamire> ok, the rest of it makes sense
19:18:57 <Herkamire> neat game
19:28:49 <Herkamire> fun
19:28:53 <Herkamire> a little buggy, and needing polish
19:29:03 <Herkamire> eg the start button doen't always work :)
19:38:12 <OrngeTide> hrm. this powerlogix g3 upgrade only comes up as a 550Mhz on linux. 
19:38:58 <OrngeTide> so goofy util for macos or osx can configure it to the full 1ghz though
19:39:02 <OrngeTide> s/so/some
19:39:10 <OrngeTide> but i don't have osx on this machine. *sigh*
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19:55:45 <Robert> Hi, Sonarman 
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21:57:44 <Herkamire> ermph
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22:00:03 <bbls> hello
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22:04:08 <Herkamire> hi bbls
22:04:10 <Herkamire> hi asymptote 
22:04:19 <bbls> hi Herkamire
22:04:44 <asymptote> hi Herk
22:05:46 <Herkamire> what's up?
22:05:56 <Herkamire> I'm working out the physics for bouncing 2d balls off eachother
22:07:06 <bbls> i was thinking that a good way to make a microkernel is to put back all servers in ring 0 with one "small" adjustment.. add formal proof that they won't exceed the memory limits imposed on them
22:07:17 <bbls> a fast microkernel
22:13:57 <Herkamire> I think provable code is still a developing art
22:14:03 <Herkamire> do you know about tunes?
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22:14:10 <Herkamire> tunes.org
22:14:15 <bbls> they want too much from it
22:14:18 <bbls> and it's too vague
22:14:53 <bbls> anyway proving address space containment should be easier than proving the general correctness of the program
22:15:13 <bbls> (a program can be incorrect even if it never crashes due to invalid pointers)
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22:16:32 <Herkamire> perhaps
22:16:49 <Herkamire> but there's a lot of situations where having code do the wrong thing is just as bad as crashing
22:17:29 <bbls> well, you could have this problem even you use insulated address spaces
22:17:42 <bbls> nothing guarantees that your server will generate good IPC calls
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22:18:14 <bbls> at this point my goal is to move all ring3 servers to ring0
22:18:24 <bbls> (for performance purposes)
22:18:35 <bbls> then i'll concentrate later on the rest of the corectness problems
22:22:36 <Herkamire> you should use unit tests
22:23:00 <bbls> they are not exaustive testing
22:23:34 <bbls> beside this, untrusted code should be moved to ring0 too
22:23:48 <bbls> by unstrusted i mean code that was not written by the original system developer
22:24:07 <bbls> the kernel has no way to find what unit tests to run by itself
22:24:32 <bbls> and to let the server specify it would be ridiculous
22:24:51 <bbls> since it could specify unit tests that allways get validated
22:24:58 <bbls> and therefore get easy access to ring0
22:27:54 <Herkamire> cool, I just discovered that 20/101 is  0.1980198019801980
22:28:10 <Herkamire> repeating the digits of the year I was born over and over
22:29:01 <OrngeTide> 1980? you're just a kid!
22:29:38 <OrngeTide> 1980/9999 is the same thing... :)
22:29:46 <Herkamire> 25
22:29:51 <Herkamire> vs 6
22:29:54 <Herkamire> hm....
22:31:25 <OrngeTide> 1980 happens to be evenly divisible by 99. which is why it works so nicely
22:32:43 <bbls> hmm, i'm born in 1982 :)
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22:33:12 <bbls> haha, this is a nice quite message :)
22:33:42 <bbls> with asymptote's permission i'm going to copy it
22:33:42 <OrngeTide> you guys are so young
22:33:52 <bbls> OrngeTide how old are you?
22:34:10 <OrngeTide> 1978 :)
22:34:26 <bbls> that's just 2 year older than Herkamire and 4 than me
22:34:38 <OrngeTide> yea you're barely old enough to drink :)
22:34:49 <bbls> i don't consume alcohool anyway
22:34:59 <OrngeTide> oh?
22:54:20 <Herkamire> 1980 factors   => 2 2 3 3 5 11
22:54:48 <Herkamire> I have a t-shirt that says that
22:54:56 <Herkamire> (free the mallocs)
22:55:00 <bbls> :)
22:56:30 <Herkamire> got it on cafepress
22:56:35 <Herkamire> wonder if that's the guy who made it
22:57:01 <Herkamire> I don't drink either
23:36:34 <OrngeTide> i drink constantly
23:37:15 <bbls> :)
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.05.10