00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.05.08 00:10:00 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 00:52:51 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-89.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 01:11:32 --- quit: Al2O3 ("Leaving") 01:30:55 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 03:00:38 --- quit: mithro (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:27:56 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.4) joined #forth 03:28:00 hello 03:44:59 --- join: mithro (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) joined #forth 04:01:57 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:21:31 --- quit: Frek ("Client exiting") 04:21:36 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h68n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 04:33:42 --- quit: mithro (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:12:24 --- quit: Frek ("Client exiting") 05:13:05 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h68n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 05:17:36 --- join: Teratogen (~leontopod@intertwingled.net) joined #forth 05:17:44 Hi, MINIX. 05:31:31 Robert =) 05:32:01 Someone should port SDL to Minix. 05:32:26 lol 06:04:32 --- join: zoly (~l@p549DE945.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 06:05:46 Hi 06:06:02 'morning 06:18:06 --- join: alterego (~alterego@cpc2-cmbg4-5-0-cust103.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) joined #forth 06:26:05 =( 06:26:09 programmers are getting lame 06:26:16 Hm? 06:26:18 ? 06:26:28 i go to install openbox as a nice lightweight wm, no problems 06:26:56 then, i go to install obconf to configure it...and it depends on like half of the gnome suite to compile 06:26:58 rather the ratio of programmers to population increases, and by the law of diminushing returns, the average skills of a programmer comes down 06:27:30 i mean, it's just a config tool. it's not like you really need gtk+ widgets AND gnome tools 06:27:51 i can't tell if they even wrote anything other than the text displayed in the program 06:28:01 :) 06:28:40 * saon never understood why linux developers seem to like KDE and gnome 06:28:55 We do? 06:28:57 Hrm. 06:29:03 lol 06:29:10 well, the mainstream ones 06:29:15 Ah. Those. 06:29:27 i know members of #forth worship things like ratpoison and evilwm =p 06:29:37 as do I 06:29:42 * saon snuggles BadWM 06:31:26 * Robert pets iceWM with Windows95 theme. I'm not even a mainstream antimainstream :( 06:32:32 and all these doc formats. gyah! there is ONE document format. manpages. i suppose i also like info pages, but only when the man page isn't sufficient. INSTALL and README text files should be the only other accepted documentation 06:33:03 Yes, 80-column ascii is the one and only. 06:33:09 none of this using a makefile for generating documentation in unicode, flat ascii, pdf, ps, dvi, etc 06:33:20 And people who write their docs in non-English languages... 06:33:49 i'm comfortable with html 06:34:10 presumably people will then change their console font and language to read nonenglish docs 06:34:17 i really never understood why any serious programmer would ever write "internationalised" applications 06:34:27 it's such a waste of time 06:34:51 Well, only replace the american standards that suck. 06:35:06 Like the imperial units, non-logical date formats, etc. 06:35:13 lol, i agree 06:35:24 the mm-dd-yy is so ass backwards 06:35:52 and ironically i'm listening to a song about the metric system right now 06:36:26 :) 06:36:52 hrmm, is there anything that supports unicode on the console? 06:37:25 i imagine running in a vga console would make it feasible. *wonders if different languages will need higher resolutions to properly display characters* 06:38:08 Well, if I ever want to read kanji in the console I'll switch to unicode. 06:38:19 i don't think that arabic languages could work well on vga since the arabic "letters" span over other ones 06:38:20 Otherwise I'll let Debian decide for me ;) 06:38:46 bbls, yes, that's what i was thinking too 06:38:47 and asian languages could indeed need a higher resolution 06:38:58 arabic wouldn't be very friendly with 8x16 format 06:39:30 can you even have fixed width arabic letters? 06:39:48 i suppose you could if you made the font yourself 06:39:52 yay bitmapping 06:41:10 re: arabic. http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp 06:46:37 rofl 06:47:32 if i ever meet a christian with that kind of archaeological knowledge, i will be greatly impressed 06:47:43 and if that ever happened in a mosque, all 3 of them would be dead 06:48:10 Heh. 06:48:54 most christians i know are not of exceptional intelligence 06:49:19 bbls, there's still the possibility to use a graphical mode, rather than the character generator 06:49:36 bbls, besides, $C0...$DF can span 06:49:41 i'm sure there are some out there, but i have yet to encounter them 06:51:04 I like their references, btw. 06:51:23 "* See 'Islamic invasion' by Morey" 06:51:31 rofl 06:52:05 "* See 'I'm a christian and you're going to hell'" 06:53:07 i don't really understand a lot of them saying that a better life awaits them and that they will be at peace with god. i'm left wondering "then why are you staying here?" 06:56:02 for some alternative reference, there's http://forthfreak.logilan.net/misc/TheSatanicBible.pdf 06:56:11 saon: Because suicide is a sin. 06:56:21 Hah. 06:56:25 lol, i was just thinking about that 06:57:35 ehm, url was wrong... http://forthfreak.net/misc/TheSatanicBible.pdf 06:58:29 i try mostly to avoid religious conversation in real life 06:59:00 the usual interaction is "you're going to hell" "perhaps, but you're turning to worm chow" 06:59:28 I mostly meet my classmates, and I'm at a technical university... so religion isn't much of a problem. 06:59:56 * saon lives in southern part of the US 07:00:14 i can't go anywhere without being met with conservative viewpoints 07:00:34 and then you also have people here that really believe the south will rise again 07:00:47 :D 07:01:19 and the people in south carolina with their christian exodus. they actually want to seceed from the US and form a country governed by the 10 comandments 07:01:47 i'm all for it. hopefully when all of them collect in one place, islamic extremists will have an easier target 07:02:08 we just need to wait till the chinese take on that kind of redical religious fundamentalism 07:02:12 radical ... 07:02:26 Time for Culture Revolution II. 07:02:48 around here the black sheep are people like wiccans 07:02:53 because "they are evil" 07:02:54 Well, I doubt we'll see militant buddhists. 07:03:05 rome may have to send missionaries to the netherlands, to re-educate the country 07:03:12 Hah. 07:03:15 and i ask people when the wiccans started a war with anybody =p 07:10:30 i should do something useful today 07:11:59 --- quit: alterego (Remote closed the connection) 07:12:59 Nonsense. 07:13:25 i did nothing useful yesterday other than setup my new linux box 07:13:35 then i spent time with the gf 07:14:02 * saon is ready to get out of school 07:14:50 --- join: mithro (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) joined #forth 07:16:28 * saon dreams about cheap efficient computing 07:17:19 * Robert too... mmm... vacuum tubes... 07:17:27 * saon is tired of multi-thousand dollar CISC machines 07:18:24 so...build a gumstix cluster or something :) 07:18:34 perhaps one day people will realize that it may be cheaper to have multiple different processors that each handle a certain tye of problem best 07:19:08 well, only if each type is used in large enough quantities to offset the cost of creating it in the first place 07:19:15 that would be nice to have stack machines alongside risc and cisc machines, all working in unison for the sake of performance 07:19:45 unless of course you're talking about doing things in programmable logic 07:19:54 looks to me like people are starting to do that sort of thing. 07:20:10 Hey, I'm getting some programmable logic 07:20:12 FPGAs and stuff set up so they can be reprogrammed on the fly. 07:20:13 4 GAL chips ;) 07:20:23 go Robert :) 07:20:39 Mmm.. microprocessor. 07:20:41 what are you going to do with them? 07:21:35 Play. 07:28:30 tathi: it's called the cell processor :P 07:31:10 :) 07:56:14 saon it would be totally inneficient 07:56:37 would you buy a new processor for each new version of your text editor? 07:57:22 and FPGA's are useless from a performance point of view. not to mention that any reasonably large FPGA is very expensive. 08:04:25 * zoly ponders having a look at ruby and writing another forth interpreter with it 08:08:12 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 08:12:16 zoly: Heh, cool. 08:12:28 * Robert has been getting into ruby lately. 08:12:34 Very nice language, imho 08:12:47 (within its domain) 08:14:57 sounds like many people prefer ruby over python 08:15:40 calling by execution token seems possible 08:15:42 Looks like an ordinary holy war to me 08:15:48 Where Ruby is losing. 08:16:37 what is it you've been learning ruby with ? 08:17:04 You mean the language reference or what I've been doing with it? 08:17:11 the latter 08:19:33 A small assembler for the manchester Baby computer, a simple circuit simulator, some minor scripts... 08:21:43 i like to implement forth interpreters in languages inknown to me - it helps me comparing them :) 08:21:54 unkn... 08:22:25 Well, the built-in hash map functionality might come in handy... 08:22:47 --- quit: mithro (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:25:08 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-43-32.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:35:44 --- join: mithro (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) joined #forth 09:04:47 --- join: snoopy_1711 (snoopy_161@p54A7BFE6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:16:15 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 09:16:19 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 09:50:40 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@c-24-218-95-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:50:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 09:54:23 --- quit: mithro (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09:54:43 --- part: zoly left #forth 10:01:00 hi zoly :) 10:01:04 oops 10:01:12 hmmm... that says "left" doesn't it 10:01:33 Yep. 10:01:46 well, hello everyone else :) 10:01:55 Hi :) 10:02:25 I'm modifying some code I don't understand at all, and it feels great. 10:02:25 --- quit: KB1FYR (Remote closed the connection) 10:02:45 LONG astronomical equations. 10:02:47 making it so you do understand it? 10:03:18 does it still work after? 10:03:33 I sure hope so. 10:03:50 When I asked the athor to explain it, he just laughed and told me not to worry about taht. 10:04:17 I bet he uses BSD too :P 10:04:37 >:) 10:05:26 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 10:05:50 --- quit: KB1FYR (Client Quit) 10:06:34 hehe 10:06:42 tathi: any progress with getting BSD? 10:08:44 haven't looked into it much recently. 10:08:58 I found an article on cross-compiling the kernel though. 10:09:10 I'm a bit put off by how it needs it's own harddrive 10:09:14 ? 10:09:20 does it? 10:09:22 I have a nice shiny partition it can use 10:09:29 seems that way 10:09:37 not according to what I've read. 10:09:52 though...seems like it treats its partition as a whole disk. 10:09:59 puts its own "partition table" on it and everything. 10:10:23 seemed like you could have BSD on the same disk as other things 10:10:30 so long as you formatted your disk right in the first place 10:11:01 I haven't really figured it out 10:11:09 and it may be different now, I was reading a couple years ago 10:11:26 you need to name the partition table entries somehow 10:12:04 I _think_ the problem I ran into was that the only way to format the partition for BSD without wrecking the other partitions, was with a program that only ran on BSD... 10:12:10 and there was no boot cd 10:12:26 hmm 10:12:27 chicken and egg 10:12:41 I couldn't run BSD to format the partition so I could install BSD 10:12:46 yup. 10:13:10 there was a Mac utility that could do the tricky bit, but it wipes the whole drive in the process 10:13:43 I hope this has been resolveh 10:13:44 d 10:14:08 like the utility ported to linux, or a boot cd created 10:14:25 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 10:20:15 yah, I've been doing other stuff lately. 10:21:23 I started actually coding that prototype-based object system idea I had a while back. 10:21:34 And merged in I440r's changes to the PPC port of IsForth. 10:21:42 And chicken stuff 10:23:05 Hm, is there any easy way in C to do a "modulus" with a floating-point value, so that it stays below a certain value (an angle, in this case, so below 2*pi)? 10:29:23 I don't know of anything better than the obvious divide, multiply, subtract 10:30:07 :/ 10:30:11 Thanks anyway. 10:30:30 Do you need a lot of speed for something? 10:31:03 oh wait, that won't work easily, will it, grr. 10:31:36 Well, I'd prefer a faster way, but in this application (game which requires some astronomical calculations) I can probably just check for over/underflow. 10:33:01 math.h has a function double `fmod(double x, double y)' apparently 10:33:33 oops, meant to put those quotes around the whole prototype. 10:35:45 Cool, thanks. 10:36:28 I'll use those and blame glibc/gcc if things get too slow. 10:42:06 --- join: crc (crc@1Cust5193.an3.phl18.da.uu.net) joined #forth 10:42:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 11:17:11 --- quit: bbls () 11:23:07 --- quit: crc () 11:26:37 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.4) joined #forth 12:50:42 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 12:55:21 stupid xmms 12:55:34 it opens a window, then a half seccond later, closes it, and opens another 12:56:08 it's a bit fast, but long enough that I have to wait for it. 12:56:24 and sometimes I forget, and it disapears, and then interupts my typing after I've gone elsewhere 13:48:00 --- quit: bbls () 13:56:35 well, ok, got the whole NetBSD source downloaded and unpacked, now starting building things. 14:25:14 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ts001d0760.wdc-dc.xod.concentric.net) joined #forth 14:25:20 Hi, TheBlueWizard 14:25:28 hiya Robert 14:48:21 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-43-32.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:49:36 Hi 14:51:09 hiya Raystm2 :) 15:00:29 --- part: KB1FYR left #forth 15:03:17 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 15:13:02 --- nick: TheBlueWizard -> The____BlueWizar 15:13:12 --- nick: The____BlueWizar -> The___BlueWizard 15:15:40 Heh. 15:16:11 ok....now I must make a fateful decision: Dark side or Light side? ;) 15:16:44 What, Microsoft offered a job? 15:19:04 as in TheDarkBlueWizard....or TheLightBlueWizard :) 15:19:14 Aha. 15:19:26 Personally I prefer dark blue. 15:19:37 I'm getting feverish about Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith ;) (I am not going to the theater though) 15:19:51 A new movie? 15:19:53 I agree...dark blue is...attractive :) 15:20:07 new movie...will premiere on May 19 16:10:21 --- quit: Robert ("Neptune will collide with the Earth in two weeks. Convert to the true religion before it's too late.") 16:29:45 * The___BlueWizard has to go...and is giving into the Dark side! 16:30:07 --- part: The___BlueWizard left #forth 17:19:27 --- join: crc (crc@1Cust7870.an4.phl18.da.uu.net) joined #forth 17:19:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 17:53:12 --- quit: crc () 18:13:16 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-f778e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 19:27:31 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 19:27:36 how do i get the current time in gforth? 19:27:41 millisecond resolution 19:34:42 --- join: swalters (~swalters@2416457hfc118.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 19:46:30 --- quit: swalters (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 20:01:59 --- join: swalters (~swalters@2416457hfc118.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 20:27:33 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 20:46:30 or retroforth? 20:48:48 syscall i would guess 20:49:05 dunno what the system call is for the time 20:52:29 gettimeofday 20:55:26 --- quit: Teratogen (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:26:01 punk is the best god damned hacking music ever!!!!!!!!!! 21:26:15 --- part: slava left #forth 22:23:28 I prefer blues myself. 22:39:52 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.4) joined #forth 22:59:02 I'm just a bit excited about getting a working soundcard. 22:59:17 swalters? 23:00:26 yes? 23:01:02 your statement seems to pop out of nowhere :) 23:02:12 it's from my earlier statement about punk and OrngeTide's response 23:02:52 ah, i wasn't here then 23:03:44 I've been arguing with my soundcard for some time now and just decided to go buy a new one... 23:04:16 :) 23:06:57 Now, since you can't run a gentoo system for more than a year without it somehow getting into a funky state that requires a rebuild, I'm writing a script to handle that in the background... 23:11:12 :) 23:18:00 *bounce* Nice to know that I'm not so grown-up that I can't get excited about simple things 23:18:30 i'm still excited by watching cartoons 23:18:58 absolutely... 23:19:49 I'm, however, not terribly excited about the dvorak layout at the moment 23:20:34 i've never tried one 23:26:25 They're not that bad... I'm just at the point where I never have to wonder where a key is, but my fingers won't seem to listen 23:26:45 :) 23:41:26 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.05.08