00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.05.03 00:43:47 --- join: segher (~segher@blueice1n1.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 01:39:12 --- join: arke (apache@84.218.23.160) joined #forth 01:39:40 hi 01:43:09 --- quit: swalters (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:02:01 And now I have to leave. 02:02:02 It would be nice if everybody sends me an email :) 02:02:03 chris.r.walton at gmail dot com 02:03:21 --- quit: arke ("chris dot r dot walton at gmail dot com --- send me lots of emails, people!!! LOTS!!!") 03:34:05 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:20:10 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-24-1-126-202.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:38:09 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:38:09 --- quit: cmeme (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:38:09 --- quit: ianp (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:38:09 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:38:09 --- quit: Frek (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:38:09 --- quit: onetom (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:39:53 --- join: Frek (129-ident-@h68n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 05:39:53 --- join: Snoopy42 (snoopy_161@p54A7BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:39:53 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 05:39:53 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 05:39:53 --- join: ianp (~ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 05:39:53 --- join: ccfg (ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 06:57:32 --- join: swalters (~swalters@2416457hfc118.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 07:14:16 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@c-24-218-95-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:14:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 07:22:02 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:22:42 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 07:22:52 --- quit: onetom (Client Quit) 07:23:09 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 09:02:09 --- join: snoopy_1711 (snoopy_161@p54A7C2EA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:12:52 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:13:06 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 09:16:47 --- join: arke (apache@84.218.23.160) joined #forth 09:44:36 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 09:47:49 --- join: zoly (~l@p549DFC46.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:48:02 g'day 09:48:47 God dag. 10:05:40 hoi rob_ert 10:06:04 Hoe gaat het? 10:06:14 god 10:06:34 zou erger kunnen 10:07:20 been camping on the hills, with some friends visiting from munich 10:09:22 hoi hollanders 10:09:38 nederlanders, aub 10:09:50 Nice. 10:10:10 segher: maar, je zit ternaast :) 10:10:33 rob is swedish, i'm german ... 10:11:02 dus dan spreken jullie maar nederlands? hihi 10:11:07 ja hoor 10:11:15 geografieke kompromis 10:11:19 :D 10:11:21 * segher is in germany as well 10:12:01 boessenkool is wel een erg nederlands klinkende naam 10:12:17 dat klopt 10:12:24 ik ben dan ook nederlander 10:13:21 als ik nederlands praat, geloven nederlanders dat ik belg ben 10:13:46 of "ergens van skandinavie" 10:13:52 dan komt "schots" 10:14:33 hehe 10:14:46 zeg ik dan "nee, gewoon een oosterbuur", weet nauwelijks iemand welk land ik zou kunnen bedoelen 10:15:05 zoly: dat komt door het gemiddelde iq in nederland 10:16:46 waar vandaan ? 10:29:06 ? 10:30:33 gotta go... laterz 10:30:36 --- quit: segher ("Leaving") 11:39:37 --- part: zoly left #forth 11:43:24 --- quit: Al2O3 ("Leaving") 12:20:14 --- join: thinfu (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 12:20:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thinfu 12:20:21 Hi, thin. 12:20:25 hi Robert 12:20:39 have you ever used select() ? 12:20:59 Not during the last few years. 12:21:13 Why? 12:21:16 i'm looking for someone with some select() experience cuz i can't seem to get my darn server working for multiple connections 12:22:07 select returns the fdset with the listening socket set when there shouldn't be any data on that socket.. 12:22:51 anyone who thinks they can help... the code for the server is at http://forthology.com/code/chatserv.rf 12:37:12 Which protocol does it use? 12:39:40 actually i think i've isolated the problem.. i tried strace.. should've used it earlier heh 12:39:50 not sure what you mean by protocol? 12:40:09 For the chat program. 12:40:30 At the highest level, I mean, such as IRC. 12:41:07 its just an echo server, when its working, it will echo what a person types to everyone else that is connected 12:41:42 its just a simple program to get the code working for the forthmud 12:42:06 altho i'm sure others are going to take the code and extend it for other servers :) 12:42:25 after crc cleans up my code a little hopefully ;) 12:43:03 Ah, I see. 12:45:09 What kind of alternatives are there to x86 based PCs, not counting expensive and/or obsolete machines? 12:45:52 * Robert never heard of anything but macs and various handheld computers. 12:47:06 what about those graphical workstations 12:49:09 one that is a year or two old is fairly affordable i guess? 12:53:53 Well, I'd prefer somethinng which is designed to be cheap even when it's new. 12:56:32 are you looking for non-x86? 12:57:50 Preferably. 12:58:18 what what do you want to use it for? 12:58:20 desktop? 12:59:00 * saon watches robert quietly rally people to build a stack-computer operating system to rival other expensive comlicated pc systems 12:59:18 complicated* 12:59:28 saon: yeah thats what my brain is saying "stack computer! stack computer! stack computer!" :P 13:00:06 it would be nice to construct such a thing 13:00:45 "real men need no pipelines!" 13:01:46 Robert: you could buy a forth comp from patriotscientific.com 13:01:55 its based off the shboom chip 13:02:05 they advertise it as a java cpu tho 13:03:23 * Robert checks 13:03:37 thinfu: "Toy" ;) 13:03:48 But yeah, I'm really looking for something of general use. 13:04:34 the shboom was quite fast and i'm sure they've improved it even more by now 13:04:40 it was like 50 mips 13:04:54 blazing fast ;) 13:05:12 Hah. 13:05:17 for a forth chip :D 13:05:27 I could, uhm, play an MP3 with that. 13:05:37 i had an idea a while ago for making a normal looking suit with embeeded f21s in it, all linked together and using a distributed control system to process data from cameras, microphones, and other input devices 13:05:51 50 mip forth chip = 500 mip x86 at least 13:06:48 Uh, sure... 13:07:43 are there any benchmarks that can really be applied to x86 and forth cpus? 13:08:51 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:12:23 --- nick: KB1FYR|Sleep -> KB1FYR 13:12:33 saon: I think the best test is reality. 13:12:43 Port mplayer :) 13:12:56 lol 13:14:56 i wish i were a forth programmer of that caliber 13:15:00 sadly, i am not 13:16:02 Robert: wasn't able to find it in my logs, but i asked him about the chip & and IIRC he said that a decent desktop forth OS w/ comparable features running on a 33 mips forth chip would be equivalent to a 700mhz pentium running windoze 13:16:31 or maybe i'm confusing that with the f21 13:16:35 let me guess, that was Jeff. 13:16:41 I think that assumes a 99% overhead in Windows. 13:16:57 And half of that number probably comes out of nowhere. 13:17:05 lol 13:17:09 the point is, forth is a lot more compact so 50 mips isn't as slow as you think it is 13:17:31 yah, Jeff does seem to be a really good forth coder, but... 13:17:32 no, i asked kc5tja 13:17:37 oh. 13:17:44 Well, the hundreds of MIPS from an x86 can still be used better. 13:17:53 oh, definitely. 13:18:21 what's stopping forth cpus from reaching higher MIPS ratings? 13:18:27 nothing 13:18:32 cooling, clocking, fabrication? 13:19:28 not wanting to add wait states while memory catches up? =p 13:20:27 money, I think 13:20:33 Patriot Scientific Corporation announced today that AMD has purchased restricted shares from PTSC, obtained rights to manufacture and sell the PTSC IGNITE 32-bit stack microprocessor and obtained rights to the "ShBoom" microprocessor patent portfolio in its entirety. AMD is the first company to license the "ShBoom" microprocessor portfolio from PTSC 13:21:06 saon: shboom is one of the slower forthchips.. and anyways i'm pretty sure the forthchips available from patriotscientific are a lot faster now 13:24:02 i think the huge task of porting all the code from x86 machines puts stack machines at a huge disadvantage. from a complexity standpoint, recompiling code from x86 requires a compiler with a backend for the other risc machines on the market so they can use it. but, making a backend that will allow you to take traditional languages and optimize them for stack machines seems pretty difficult 13:24:10 lol 13:24:11 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3092.txt 13:25:13 saon: i doubt the code would be ported, who would want to bother? 13:25:29 we want a forth os & forth code to go with a forth chip 13:25:30 heh 13:26:58 i wounder how feasible it would be to build a forth os 13:27:01 wonder* 13:27:13 Not hard. 13:27:25 Depending on what you want it to do, obviously. 13:27:27 well, one that encompasses at least what projects like linux and BeOS have done 13:27:48 erm, i should say linux distros, not just the kernel 13:27:52 Depends on the arch then... 13:28:05 I mean, having to code/maintain 10000 drivers isn't easy. 13:28:46 if it could be done, it'd be about the only example of a _large_ forth project to date 13:28:55 :) 13:28:59 if you're talking about a forth os with a usable subset of tools like editor, irc client, web browser, web server, etc 13:29:07 * tathi is waiting to see a web browser in forth. 13:29:11 saon: large? there are already a few largish forth programs 13:29:57 thinfu, do you have any links? 13:30:05 * saon would like to see and learn 13:32:19 there's a forth web/ftp/email server on some russian site 13:32:27 can't remember url 13:32:37 forthcad.com was probably largish 13:33:59 hrmm, so, what are the few things the forth community really needs? 13:34:29 Hmm.. some touch with reality? 13:34:35 lol 13:34:37 Robert: how so? 13:34:40 :) 13:34:46 Nevermind. 13:36:36 saon: well the community seems to be lacking a few things, such as a good development environment, documentation, good examples of code, et cetera 13:36:59 yes, the lack of a central editor has bothered me a little bit 13:37:28 its a pretty small community and also very fragmented (i.e. ANS forth vs classical forth vs colorforth) so its sort of understandable why there doesn't seem that much development 13:37:29 it seems everyone wants to make their own forth that fits their needs, and then proceeds to change their needs instead of building something with the forth they made 13:37:46 :) 13:38:07 I think a good library would help. 13:38:27 robert, yes yes. as would more natural string support 13:38:34 well, in the library that is 13:38:37 Not of semi-useless fragments, but with useful things like hash maps, strings, and graphics. 13:40:13 i believe that retroforth is really going to make a difference.. a clean implementation that runs across platforms and eventually across architectures with a growing library of properly coded programs 13:40:22 something that bothers me is that forth has great potential for abstract data types, but, has no facilities for working with them unless you write those facilities 13:40:58 and it's likely that other people will hate the facilities you make, and as such, won't use them 13:41:15 * Robert gets more and more tempted to write The Big Forth. 13:42:29 i wish i could go back to the bare metal days 13:42:39 * saon dreams of toggle switches 13:43:03 Hah. 13:43:21 If my transistor computer works, I should offer it as a kit :P 13:43:25 :) 13:43:44 But seriously, the idea I had was to make something like you described (...useful) 13:43:44 i was thinking of going on ebay to see if any altair's were out there 13:44:01 You should make your own one. 13:44:08 Probably cheaper. 13:44:14 * saon is electronics noob 13:44:26 i really need to just read and take notes from my ARRL handbook 13:44:28 It's easy enough for a noob as well. 13:45:01 You know, someone who barely knows about electronics successfully built my brainfuck computer :) 13:45:15 And I bet you can do something similar. 13:45:19 lol 13:45:34 what i'd really like is a really nice chip music type of thing 13:45:35 (But less freaky than BF) 13:45:55 --- quit: KB1FYR () 13:46:09 get a few small computer speakers and some timers and i could make a nice polyphonic system 13:46:10 You could make the interpreter do some PWM on an output pin, and then just connect it to a small one-transistor amp. 13:46:26 * Robert felt like doing that. 13:46:39 or do a lot of math to get the polyphonic stuff accomplished via compound waveforms 13:46:59 but that'd require much higher clock speed and math that i don't really know anything about 13:47:05 Playing the "Noir" melody and coding on my bike rides :D 13:47:42 i'd like to build a small computer with just some tactile switches to test out my 3-button keyboard idea 13:48:11 Too bad I/O is hard to do, using LEDs and switches is kind of a turnoff. 13:48:14 saon: after forthmud gets going, crc and i will be working on an online development environment where you connect with your forth and you can chat, share code, watch someone code, etc.. i believe something like that will greatly help increase forthers productivity :) 13:48:24 can run in either 27-key mode or 81-key mode 13:48:32 thinfu: that would be really cool 13:49:13 there's still hope for forth, all we gotta do is build the right stuff and things will improve for the better :) 13:49:39 and damned if i don't think retroforth is great 13:49:46 yes yes, we must bring forth out of the 70's 13:49:46 its everything i was looking for in a forth 13:50:01 I wonder if I could train my morse reception enough to make that a good output alternative. 13:50:17 robert, morse over speaker or LED? 13:50:24 Speaker, of course. 13:51:17 i considered building a little black box with nothing but a single 7-segment LED for outputting random hex codes 13:51:20 Try to receive fast morse visually and you'll know why. 13:51:41 robert, have you ever tried two-tone morse? 13:51:54 No. 13:52:05 fast morse visually is harder to understand than fast morse auditorially? 13:52:23 thinfu: Yeah... 13:52:31 i'm not very good at morse, but, i found that it was much easier to differentiate between a higher sound (dot) and lower sound (dash), than actual dots and dashes 13:52:36 morse is built with a short beep and a long beep right? 13:52:41 Yes. 13:52:46 basically two-tone ? 13:52:49 And different delays. 13:52:58 Yeah, but of the same frequency. 13:53:04 oh i see 13:53:24 thinfu: Some people can read morse at 70 WPM or even more. 13:53:30 ... 13:53:32 that's insane 13:53:35 read or hear? 13:53:40 read, as in hear. 13:53:49 ah, nice 13:54:08 and how fast can they tap out the morse? 13:54:11 i'd be very proud of myself if i could even get close to 25wpm in morse 13:54:18 thinfu: About that fast. 13:54:45 saon: Me too... I can only receive very simple messages at 25 wpm 13:54:57 --- join: KB1FYR (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 13:55:09 Speaking of amateur radio... :) 13:55:31 :P 13:55:32 But I think a one- or two-line LCD display would be easier to deal with. 13:55:33 hi 13:55:37 ge 13:56:50 robert, yes, but, that's takes away from the "wtf is he doing?" value. it's much cooler to have a small beeping box than one that anybody can read =p 13:57:09 saon: Hmm... you could use runes ;) 13:57:17 But you got a point. 13:57:17 heh 13:57:30 Actually, this is a case where COBOL would be somewhat useful. 13:57:46 Or at least some language without too many symbols. 13:58:40 i had an idea a while ago for creating a box with 1 button (t-switch) and a 7-segment display with a reciever and transmitter in it and you could give a second box to your friend for tapping notes in class and such 13:59:20 i actually had a teacher accuse me of cheating because during a test i was tapping out morse code on my desk 13:59:23 =/ 13:59:25 :D 13:59:38 Why not just make a normal cw transceiver? 13:59:45 The display seems overkill. 13:59:48 not that they knew morse code or anything 14:00:01 And tapping morse code can be hard. 14:00:08 and i was practicing my abc's. =( 14:00:12 Hehe 14:00:29 * Robert is doing too little morse these days. 14:00:39 my 3-button input has some work left for mapping an actual alphabet to it 14:01:08 * Robert should test his video chip some day. 14:01:21 This got to be the least likely thing to work properly EVER. 14:01:26 but the fitness scores of eath sequence of 4 presses are done, so, it's just a matter of looking at the distribution of that and matching it up to the distribution of some text 14:01:34 lol 14:01:43 Totally untested code with sub-microsecond timing requirements. 14:01:52 rofl 14:01:59 gl with that =p 14:02:06 tu 14:03:56 it'd be nice to have a sound chip to take around with me 14:04:09 or make a digital effects processor with analog input and output 14:04:37 Don't think it would be too hard...hmm... actually, that would be a pretty nice project. 14:04:54 A single PIC with a serial EEPROM could do it. 14:04:54 wouldn't take anything hard 14:05:01 * Robert <-- tempted. 14:05:05 heheh 14:05:16 Seriously, it would be really cool. 14:05:36 i'd have to look more into digital effects processing to see what i'd want in one, but it does seem doable 14:05:39 and fun 14:05:42 :) 14:06:48 what kind of input system would you have though? 14:07:25 Hard-coded :) 14:07:26 i mean, 2-line lcd for output would be sufficient i think, but input would be a little tricky if you want to be able to write your own effect-processing code on the go 14:07:40 But when you mention it, using a small numpad for input would be cool. 14:07:51 Output? 14:07:57 That would be the sound. 14:08:12 I'm thinking of a portable sid player. 14:08:14 robert, did i ever give you any of the ideas for my stack-based hex calculators? 14:08:41 Not sure, so please tell me. 14:08:53 brb, diagrams in car 14:08:56 OK 14:12:27 okay, i have a bunch of different models i designed, but the best one i think for the hex version is the second one. it's arranged in a 4x8 grid with the screen above it 14:13:33 left side is stack funcs (drop dup over swap r> >r view), the right side is math funcs (- / + * % ^ enter), and the center is a 4x4 grid for the digits 14:13:33 "screen"? 14:13:42 well, 1-line lcd 14:13:45 Hehe. 14:13:50 =p 14:14:30 i made some decimal versions as well that was also fairly nice 14:14:56 s/was/were/ 14:15:24 Decimal... :( 14:15:26 Traitor. 14:15:33 lol 14:16:08 Although I admit that I, because of pressure from some unnamed conservatives, changed the default radix in tforth from hex to dec. 14:16:08 --- quit: docl ("Leaving") 14:16:38 hex is nice to work with 14:17:02 Yes. 14:17:13 "As another example, the character for "mother" ( in Chinese m) consists of one component meaning "female" () and another one meaning "horse" ( m)." 14:17:34 lol 14:18:45 It would be cool if the world used a common writing language, independant of the spoken ones. 14:18:56 like math? 14:18:58 I.e. if the west did like the east. 14:18:59 Heh, no. 14:19:05 =p 14:19:21 Much too specialized and exact. 14:19:29 i'm surprised how much of a difference there is in european mathematics and american mathematics 14:19:31 Although I guess math poetry could be...interesting. 14:19:57 concerning the use of vectors at least 14:21:03 we never use vectors over here except in stuff like physics. but from what i've gathered, european math makes more extensive use of vectors, which greatly simplifies some things 14:21:19 Hm, and the traditional chinese writing style seems very left-hand friendly >:) 14:21:57 robert, any reason for picking a semantic language versus a phonetic language? 14:22:32 i would think it'd be harder for people who aren't even literate in a phonetic system would be able to get ahold of enough of a semantic language for it to be of any use to them 14:22:42 As for written languages you mean? 14:22:51 ...wow i am incoherent today 14:22:57 yeah 14:23:30 * saon laughs at the possibility of add 14:23:40 I don't think there is much use for a phonetic one in the end, as it's bound by pronounciation, but still tends to differ from it (which most people can handle anyway). 14:24:15 robert, i trust you've read the book ender's game 14:24:27 Don't think so - why? 14:24:30 it'd be lovely to communicate like the "bugs" from it 14:25:01 * Robert considers trying to learn chinese characters/kanji. 14:25:04 they were a hive-intelligence, so, anything that any of them saw or felt could be instantly seen of felt by any other one 14:25:16 kind of interesting 14:25:23 Hm, ok 14:25:27 no need for overhead ;) 14:26:05 And after a few years, we don't even care about the individual characters. 14:26:35 So, without knowing what I'm talking about, I think a semantic system would be better. 14:26:49 lol, okay 14:27:10 Except a different grammar would have to be used in writing. 14:27:19 But that's not hard either. 14:28:20 hrmm, semantic systems would alleviate some of the need for structured language it seems 14:29:28 I, for instance, almost exclusively speak in Swedish and write in English. 14:29:28 Robert: There was math poetry in the Forgotten Fall (good book btw) 14:29:36 KB1FYR: Heh, cool. 14:29:37 sort of math poetry 14:29:42 code poetry anyway 14:29:57 With paranthesis and semicolons and stuff :P 14:30:25 i should start documenting all my ideas and programs and stuff 14:30:37 i have this huge geek binder for that purpose and it has nothing in it really 14:30:44 :) 14:30:51 Just mention it to someone 14:31:01 And they'll ask you whatever happend to it sooner or later. 14:32:49 heh 14:33:04 "real men don't make backups," eh? 14:34:48 --- quit: OrngeTide ("Leaving") 14:40:17 --- join: OrngeTide (~orange@c-67-180-163-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:08:28 --- quit: saon (Remote closed the connection) 15:08:54 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:09:37 Hi again. 15:09:48 hrmm, seems something is messing with my connection 15:10:33 About 29 hours until 05-05-05 05:05:05 CET. 15:10:35 * Robert joy 15:11:39 * saon is looking for a copy of 12 angry men 15:14:42 :( no seeds 15:16:21 Hm... 15:16:25 I think I still have it. 15:16:41 what format? 15:16:44 and what lang? 15:17:04 Uh, you're refering to the old american movie, right? 15:17:09 yes yes 15:17:11 And I think avi 15:17:19 Ah, good. 15:17:44 it's a delightful movie. do you have the old one, or the remake? 15:17:55 The old one. 15:18:03 ooh, haven't seen that one 15:18:23 ...I think. What's the remake? Completely new, or recut version? 15:18:59 it's completely new 15:19:07 i liked it a lot 15:20:09 --- join: zoly (~l@p549DFC46.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:20:24 OK.. I'm looking through the DVDs here. 15:20:48 Got it. 15:21:33 How would you like it delivered? 15:21:50 dcc good for you? 15:21:59 --- join: artoffoo_ (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:22:04 Sure. 15:22:18 okay, send it here :) 15:22:59 Got it? 15:23:09 yes yes :) 15:23:29 I got a few torrents loading, so you may not get a full Mbit/s. 15:23:41 * saon doesn't mind 15:24:12 * Robert hopes his DVD reader doesn't overheat from X hours of use ;) 15:24:27 lol 15:24:43 It's not that large... maybe I should buffer it on the HD 15:24:55 Would you mind if I cancelled and resend it? 15:25:03 i don't mind 15:25:04 go for it 15:25:09 Or better, you cancel 15:25:14 * Robert is too lazy to rtfm 15:25:18 hehe 15:25:28 done 15:25:36 Thanks. 15:25:40 np 15:26:01 Hm, you got decent speeds anyway. 15:26:29 3m down supposedly 15:26:38 The DVD player happens to be the only thing here that sounds, so I'd prefer not to have it running when I sleep. 15:26:52 * saon is waiting for EVDO to come to his area 15:26:52 * Robert is very sensitive to sounds. 15:26:58 EVDO? 15:27:09 it's a high-speed wireless setup 15:27:17 Cool. 15:27:20 pretty cool and cheap for really good connections anywhere you go 15:27:38 * Robert will experiment with a laser link :) 15:28:42 heh 15:28:52 i wonder what kind of xfer speeds you could have 15:28:52 There. 15:29:32 DCC on its way. 15:29:34 Got it? 15:29:40 hrmm, xchat is not being friendly 15:29:45 :( 15:29:59 can you try resend now? 15:30:01 should work 15:30:56 hrmm, still not accepting 15:31:13 One more try... 15:31:19 :), that one's working 15:31:22 Yay. 15:31:34 had to manually erase the partially completed stuff on the drive 15:31:49 yay :) 15:32:24 Hah. 15:32:32 i should really be working on that math portfolio that's due tomorrow 15:32:34 oh well 15:32:40 Mmm... math. 15:32:56 * Robert should study some digital electronics. 15:33:15 meh, it's not as exciting of math as it sounds 15:33:23 The sad part is that I know how to do the things, but not using the mehtods they enforce. 15:33:29 Same thing with the logic. 15:34:12 i hate not getting credit after finding a new way to solve problems that's either more fun or saves me time 15:34:42 isn't "having more fun" already rewarding ? 15:34:53 or, saved time, for that matter 15:35:00 zoly, yes, but, failing classes isn't fun 15:35:21 whats special about 05-05-05 05:05:05 CET (GMT?) 15:35:21 zoly, i turned in homework with answers and the program i wrote to found them and got a 0 for not showing work 15:35:24 ... 15:35:55 took me 20 minutes to do, took everyone else about 1.5 hours 15:36:02 saon: should handed in the code with the answers :P 15:36:03 thinfu: CEST, actually. Which is GMT+2 15:36:16 thinfu: i did :( 15:36:19 that's what's sad 15:36:25 darn :( 15:36:32 accuse him of being a language bigot 15:36:51 or her 15:36:56 lol 15:44:11 * saon is failing multiple classes 15:44:12 bleh 15:44:51 * saon shakes fist at public education system 15:45:36 "oh, that's cool you found a pattern that helps you answer these questions, but, we're not going to teach that because nobody would get it 15:45:39 :( 15:45:45 >:) 15:45:55 They're like EVIL COMMIES 15:46:11 lol 15:46:30 Well, that was semi-serious. I don't like them trying to make everyone identical. 15:46:41 just remember, einstein and edison and all the other smarties said "if you want an education, don't go to school" 15:49:33 I do as much as I have to in order to get the money. 15:49:48 But as for "real" stuff, that's what my copious spare time is there for! 15:50:42 Robert: is the money based on good grades or just showing up? 15:51:30 yeah iirc, the university system is paid for by the government for your country.. 15:51:32 On passing grades. 15:51:36 ah 15:51:55 But when I have the energy, I try to get decent grades as well. 15:52:02 Might be useful some day. 15:52:46 you can hope 15:53:40 Well, the money is useful already. 15:53:50 So I don't really lose anything. 15:54:46 yeah 15:54:51 you get the free time to focus on your plans for world domination 15:55:45 Exactly! 16:08:01 * Raystm2 's home :) hies 16:08:50 Hi 16:48:22 --- join: Sonarman (~cleetus@adsl-64-160-166-189.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 16:50:44 hello sonarman 17:01:08 --- part: zoly left #forth 17:02:56 --- nick: KB1FYR -> KB1FYR|AFK 17:25:04 hi there saon 17:57:07 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:58:58 I440r_, what's this about a car? 17:59:21 an rx-8 17:59:25 woooo! 18:21:15 ftp://24.242.160.169 has fotos of it 18:21:20 :) 18:22:28 the picture is so big I thought your new car was a van at first 18:23:48 I440r_, gentoo directories? you're a gentoo abuser? 18:24:17 yeah he is 18:24:20 do they still put rotary engines in those rx-8s ? 18:24:25 yup 18:24:29 all RX are rotary 18:24:42 rx-8 has a new sweet genesis rotary engine iirc 18:24:50 good. I almost bought a used rx-7. but I ended up getting a new PT cruiser cuz my gf said I had to get a 4 door 18:25:07 my PT is a turbo though. so it's no slouch. 18:25:37 my PT also gets horrible gas mileage. so I'm looking at getting a cheap motorcycle for commuting. ehhee 18:25:59 rx-8 is 4 door right? 18:26:24 it has little suicide doors. so I dunno if that counts. 18:26:52 heh 18:27:54 also I foolishly bought an automatic because I thought my gf will drive it. but she refuses to drive in this state after getting all confused and upset when I had her drive the rental car back. I really should've gotten a stick (it has an autostick-like thing, which isn't completely horrible) 18:28:33 heh 18:29:01 yeah should've gotten the stick, and then if she wanted to drive it she would've learned it :P 18:31:39 oh she totally said she'd never drive a stick. she's really short so pushing a clutch all the way to the floor is probably not much fun for her. 18:32:22 ah 18:33:14 she's 5'0" ... she said if she did decide to drive she wants some tiny little toyota or something anyways. 18:33:57 yeah 18:34:23 yea. so I want a motorcycle to make up for my mistake ;) 18:36:07 heh 18:36:46 why not sell the PT and get a different car ? 18:38:31 i owe more on it than it's worth :) 18:38:49 plus i like it. it was really good on long trips. 18:39:52 fits in small parking spots (good for parking in berkeley), holds a lot of stuff (good for trips), and the seats sit up high and move back really far which is nice since I have long legs 18:40:51 if i got a different car I'd probably get a Neon SRT4 .. which is the same turbo 4cyl engine that is in my PT, but in a nimbler Neon chassis. 18:41:44 but really a motorcycle gets 40-60 mpg .. where most of the cars I'm interested in get under 20mpg. ehhe 18:43:59 hmm.. my dad's mazda b2200 and my mazda 323 both get roughly 45mpg i believe.. 18:44:15 or does that seem too high? 18:45:18 hmm 18:46:11 probably 18:46:14 that seems kinda high. those hybrids get like 50ish 18:46:37 my PT turbo gets 18mpg... my s10 pickup got about 26mpg. 18:46:48 the pickup had a tiny wimpy little engine though:) 18:52:50 well i've driven the b2200 from kamloops to calgary a distance os 628km (checked maps.yahoo.ca) on one tank of gas.. well apparently it has a 9 gal tank.. 628km is 390 miles.. 390 miles/9 gal = 43.3 mpg 18:53:08 i don't think its 9 gal actually 18:53:13 i'm pretty sure its a bit bigger than that 18:53:16 maybe 10 or 11 18:53:20 that's pretty good 18:53:46 so 39 mpg or 35 mpg depending on the tank.. 18:54:11 heh 18:54:39 my dream car is a 1985-87 corolla gts :P 18:55:07 whoo.. i found a triumph bonneville on craigslist that I can afford. hrmm. 18:55:16 a corolla?! bah :P 18:55:24 sedan, rwd, import, old school, 4 cyl, sports car, good gas mileage.. thats what i like 18:55:27 nah its not a corolla 18:55:37 its like a supra or celica 18:55:45 the only non-american car I like is mazda rx series. 18:55:59 but its a corolla.. right before they made the corollas fwd, they forked it and created a sports car version 18:56:08 16 valve twin cam 18:56:08 neat 18:56:13 light weight chassis 18:56:15 great handling 18:56:37 it weighs like 2400 pounds 18:56:51 neat 18:57:02 and very rev happy engine.. there's a great community around the car 18:57:08 and there's another community around the engine too :) 18:57:58 yea. but a motorcycle is like 500lbs :P 18:57:59 the engine gets about 110 hp in america but it can be tweaked up to 180 hp pretty easy 18:58:02 heh :P 18:58:07 ah. my pt turbo is 205hp 18:58:20 how heavy is the pt? 18:58:46 my dad's b2200 has a hp of 110 hp too heh 18:59:00 3100lbs :) 18:59:13 heh yeah thats why you need more hp :P 19:00:59 a lotus elise has a nice power to weight ratio... :) 19:01:08 rx cars are kinda nice but i really dislike the look of the car 19:01:25 i don't like two seaters heh 19:01:42 i like a semi-useful car that can fit 2 people in the back decently comfortably 19:01:46 not scrunched up 19:01:48 heh 19:02:04 but also one that handles like a sports car.. 19:03:20 you can sorta put people in the back of an rx-8 :) 19:03:39 the mini is actually not too bad in the back, once you manage to squeeze past the seat to actually get there. 19:04:17 http://www.icxo.com/uploadimages/200412201729365486.jpg 19:04:20 thats a corolla gts 19:04:31 i tried to pick a pic that sorta showed the back seats 19:05:18 my buddy has a Shelby dodge omni glhs .. 280hp omni. it's crazy 19:05:42 so that corolla gts is a fast little hatchback? 19:05:50 my other favorite car is a 1971 510 datsun.. its a 4 door sports car :P 19:05:52 yup 19:07:17 there's a sedan version with a trunk instead of a hatchback 19:07:24 but i think the hatchback looks a lot nicer :) 19:07:48 http://www.moparts.org/moparts/picture/members/6/img/Tommy1.jpg .. that's a omni glhs. it's looks almost like a stock omni (except for the hole in the hood and wider tires) 19:08:00 http://www.katch.ne.jp/~miyo-me/ae86%20arib4%20shakou%20up.jpg its hauling a trailor, heheh :P 19:08:15 ooh nice 19:08:24 that omni is nice looking 19:08:34 280 hp in that.. damn 19:09:26 I had fun with a datsun 280z for a while. it was in a cold climate and rusted to bits though. after I moved to california I noticed tons of them that look mint. 19:10:02 yea.. some people bore the engine out in that omni glhs and put a bigger boost on it and get 300hp. 19:10:17 but it's not a big enough jump to be worth it, imo 19:10:24 yeah 19:11:19 i'd be interested in seeing the rotary in other cars 19:11:25 like in a omni maybe heh 19:12:01 a rotary motorcycle would be rad... :) 19:12:10 heh :) 19:12:31 not a bad idea.. 19:13:00 http://www.monito.com/wankel/motorcycles.html 19:13:11 looks like there have been some motorcycles with rotary engines 19:13:25 the us and uk military took the klr-650 motorcycle and modified it to for a multi fuel engine. the klr-650 is a dual sport so it has qualities of off-road and on-road bikes. I wouldn't mind one of thoses. a 7 gallon tank and you can put anything from jet fuel to gasoline in it 19:14:18 oh i really like the look of that Van Veen OCR bike on that page 19:16:26 Norton Hovercraft 19:16:28 Bill Yates put a P60 engine for thrust and an NR731 for list into a homebuilt one man hovercraft. The vehicle finished second in the British National Formula One championship, winning two more races than the champion. 19:16:46 a hovercraft came second in the formula one? 19:16:47 thats kinda funny :P 19:17:49 check out rotaryrecycle.net 19:18:09 Welcome to ROTARY RECYCLE USA Supersite. This web site is dedicated to the preservation of the Suzuki RE-5 and Hercules W-2000 Rotary engine motorcycles. 19:30:38 OrngeTide: want a newer rotary engine motorcycle and got the money to burn? http://www.nortonmotors.co.uk/Bikes.htm 20:23:13 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:24:57 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-55-122.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:46:58 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 20:51:54 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-55-122.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 21:20:30 --- quit: onetom (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:30 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:30 --- quit: swalters (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:35 --- quit: tathi (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:35 --- quit: ccfg (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:35 --- quit: thinfu (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:36 --- quit: ianp (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:37 --- quit: cmeme (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:37 --- quit: saon (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:37 --- quit: Frek (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:39 --- quit: Herkamire (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:21:44 --- join: thinfu (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: saon (1000@c-66-177-224-130.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: Snoopy42 (snoopy_161@p54A7C2EA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: onetom (~tom@ns.dunasoft.com) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@c-24-218-95-147.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: swalters (~swalters@2416457hfc118.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: Frek (129-ident-@h68n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: ianp (~ian@inpuj.com) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- join: ccfg (ccfg@dsl-roigw3de0.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 21:21:44 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +oo thinfu Herkamire 21:29:15 --- quit: thinfu ("leaving") 22:15:38 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 22:24:45 --- join: skylan (~sjh@dialup-216-211-5-58.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 22:50:22 --- join: snoopy_1711 (snoopy_161@p54A7C2EA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 22:56:24 --- quit: skylan ("leaving") 23:17:01 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:17:09 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.05.03