00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.04.21
03:10:22 <Robert> Hi
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05:45:27 <Robert> Hi
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06:08:27 <Robert> Hi
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07:19:59 <Snoopy42> Hi, anyone here involved with Reva?
07:20:44 <Robert> What's Reva?
07:21:26 <Snoopy42> a variant of Retroforth
07:22:58 <Robert> Ah.
07:23:23 <Robert> Is crc behind it?
07:25:07 <Snoopy42> sorry damn phone!
07:25:48 <Robert> Hm.
07:26:07 <Robert> The first transistor computer was finished 50 years ago this month.
07:26:20 <Snoopy42> yes, it used to be his tetraforth, but because lack of time Ron Aaron took over
07:27:40 <Robert> I see. Unfortunately I know nothing about it.
07:28:19 <Snoopy42> do you use Retroforth?
07:28:31 <Robert> No, not that either.
07:28:46 <Robert> But crc makes sure this channel knows a little about it ;)
07:29:06 <Snoopy42> hehe
07:58:24 <I440r> we got some new ppl in here ?
07:59:37 <Robert> Not sure about that.
07:59:43 <Robert> But...maybe.
07:59:51 <Robert> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/CCS/res/res13.htm
08:00:06 <Robert> Interesting article about the transistor computer.
08:00:17 <Robert> The first variant used 92(!) transistors.
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08:03:35 <Snoopy42> I440r: yep, me :)
08:04:32 <I440r> Snoopy42, cool :)
08:05:00 <I440r> <shameless plug> isforth.clss.net </shameless plug>
08:05:01 <I440r> hehe
08:05:22 <Robert> Has it been updated lately?
08:05:33 <I440r> no - working on that
08:05:40 <Robert> :)
08:05:56 <I440r> i was almost finished with an edit i started 2 years ago and dropped due to needing to find work
08:06:06 <I440r> then my drive crashed on both my laptop and my main machine
08:06:27 <I440r> been reinstalling both machines - thats done now so ill finish that part of the code asap
08:07:11 <Snoopy42> aha, I see your're forthing on 51s :)
08:07:52 <Robert> Ouch 
08:07:59 <Robert> BOTH machines died?
08:08:42 <Robert> That's pretty bad. 
08:10:14 <I440r> well the laptop was just corrupted i just reinstalled
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08:56:10 <Robert> Hi again.
08:56:48 <Robert> 161, 1711, 42... what is the pattern? :)
08:57:34 <Frek> Robert: it's all numbers
08:57:48 <Robert> Wow.
08:57:54 <Robert> Never would have though of that.
08:57:59 <Robert> +t
08:58:07 <Frek> i knew that that's why I mention it 
08:58:30 <ASau> Robert, /dev/urandom?
08:58:57 <Robert> ASau: Can't be it, my /dev/urandom is completely different.
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08:59:25 <ASau> Get another /dev/urandom!
08:59:31 <Robert> Yes sir!
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09:01:46 <Snoopy42> Sorry, irc client isn't configured for freenode yet ;-)
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10:04:40 <OrngeTide> hio
10:05:11 <Robert> Hi
10:05:21 <OrngeTide> how's it going?
10:05:54 * OrngeTide wonders why gmail gave him 50 invites, when he doesn't even know 50 people
10:05:57 <Robert> Pretty fine, playing around with the idea of a toy computer.
10:06:13 <OrngeTide> really? I've wanted to make a toy computer for a long long time.
10:06:32 * Robert will order the transistors needed soon.
10:07:01 <Frek> OrngeTide: give em to me :P
10:07:53 <OrngeTide> I bought a gumstix, it was a bit beefy for a toy. but it was instant gratification at least. ideally though I'd like something that is graphical (maybe hook up to a TV or vga or something) and costs under $50 
10:08:00 <OrngeTide> (the closer to $20 the more ideal it becomes:)
10:08:15 <OrngeTide> Frek, i'll give you one if you want.
10:08:31 <Robert> OrngeTide: Hm, I was thinking about something simpler. 
10:08:39 <Frek> OrngeTide: nah I'm just kidding; I've already have, but thanks anyway
10:08:53 <Robert> 4-bit, at the best.
10:09:01 <OrngeTide> i sort of want something like a home/kit computer, but tiny and inexpensive
10:09:16 <Robert> Yes, I'd like one as well.
10:09:28 <Robert> I was making a software video chip.
10:09:29 <OrngeTide> oh. I can't do much with 4 bits. maybe 12-bits. there is a site with building a 12-bit computer out of 74xxx and 74xx parts
10:10:05 <Robert> But that kind of come to nothing, as my homebrew video modulator was a bit.. low-quality.
10:10:30 <Robert> I've got a links to a number of those pages.
10:10:43 <Robert> But I'm NOT soldering together a 12-bit ALU. :)
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10:11:15 <Robert> If I found a REALLY simple design, I could even make a vacuum tube computer :)
10:11:37 <Herkamire> got some vacuum tubes?
10:11:47 <OrngeTide> I dabbled in tubes a few years back. they are actually pretty interesting.
10:12:02 <OrngeTide> I even attempted to make a primitive vacuum diode.
10:12:47 <Herkamire> I want to make an adder with tubes, valves and water
10:12:54 <OrngeTide> water?
10:13:01 <Herkamire> yeah
10:13:06 <Herkamire> gravity powered
10:13:09 <Robert> Herkamire: About 250.
10:13:18 <Herkamire> 4-bit probably
10:13:31 <OrngeTide> oh. not vacuum tubes, but actual tubes...
10:13:35 <Robert> I got a box of 21 relays as well.  (Hooray for ham markets)
10:13:51 <OrngeTide> I made a pneumatic full-adder. then I ran out of gate values
10:14:06 <Herkamire> Robert: 250 what? valves?
10:14:06 <Robert> Heh. 
10:14:09 <OrngeTide> shit. i'm late
10:14:11 <OrngeTide> ttyl
10:14:18 <Robert> Herkamire: 250 vacuum tubes.
10:14:21 <Robert> OrngeTide: Bye
10:14:30 <Herkamire> I'm not talking vacuum
10:14:34 <Robert> I am.
10:14:39 <Herkamire> just little plastic flexible hoses
10:14:52 <Herkamire> right. I wonder what you can make with 250...
10:14:57 <Robert> That's interesting as well.
10:15:03 <Herkamire> might not be much more than an adder :)
10:15:10 <Robert> Heh.
10:15:33 <Robert> Entire computers have been built with less.
10:15:55 <Robert> The problem is that most are of very different types.
10:16:02 <Herkamire> probably shouldn't have an adder actually, adders use quite a few transisters
10:16:07 <Robert> Only about 25 ore sub-miniature.
10:16:18 <Robert> Herkamire: Not a serial one :)
10:16:38 <Herkamire> what's that?
10:19:16 <Robert> Well, it's a one-bit adder, but which saves the carry in order to add one bit per clock.
10:19:33 <Robert> Like the old-school computers ;)
10:24:47 <Herkamire> aff
10:24:50 <Herkamire> ahh
10:25:05 <Herkamire> I don't know if I can really do clock cycles with water
10:26:21 <Robert> The user gets to suck from a straw :)
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13:03:33 <Snoopy42> Hi crc, are you around?
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14:26:28 <Robert> Hi, Topaz and tathi 
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14:34:47 <tathi> Hi Robert.
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15:11:21 <pengy> Topaz: greetings from Netley :D
15:11:33 <Topaz> haha, heya
15:11:48 <Topaz> hmm, and bye, i'm afraid, my net connection is disappearing :/
15:13:06 <pengy> :(
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15:33:25 <crc> hi all
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15:35:39 <Snoopy42> hi there!
15:38:06 <Snoopy42> I was wondering what the status of 'find' in retroforth is, did you find a soulution if it does not find the word?
15:38:57 <crc> Use ?if to check the result of a find
15:40:01 <Snoopy42> well in rf 7.6 it looks like ' (tick) returns a mangeld string (address and lengh)
15:40:18 <Snoopy42> wouldn't it be better to return 0 or something?
15:40:23 <crc> : foo ' ?if execute ;; then ." the word: '" type ." ' was not found!" cr ;
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15:40:42 <crc> I use the carry flag to store the results of things like that
15:40:50 <crc> >number does the same thing
15:41:30 <crc> Having find return 0 if the word isn't found would make some things harder
15:44:02 <Snoopy42> argh! I totally overlooked ?if!
15:44:21 <Snoopy42> didn't know I could check carry
15:45:22 <crc> I think that ?if was new in 7.6
15:45:38 <Snoopy42> right in time ;-)
15:46:01 <crc> Heh, 8.0 is close to beta now :)
15:46:21 <Snoopy42> actually I'm checking out Reva right now, 
15:46:53 <Snoopy42> seems nice but I'll shure have a look at RF 8.0 !
15:47:10 <crc> cool
15:48:05 <crc> I keep a close eye on Reva since it started life as my last TetraForth prototype
15:48:27 <Snoopy42> yep, I know, read all about it  :)
15:48:33 <crc> :)
15:50:06 <Snoopy42> I'm currently looking for a starting point for a forth for the eBookman,
15:51:00 <Snoopy42> so RF would be better because I dont want to write the wohle kernel again in Sneak32 Assember ,-)
15:51:42 <Snoopy42> did you replace many forth definitions with assembler in 8.0?
15:51:51 <crc> No more than in 7.6
15:52:22 <crc> I inline drop, swap, and nip since it takes less space in RAM, but the implementations are the same
15:52:46 <crc> Actually, more of the words are in high level forth now, so it's even less assembly than before
15:53:02 <Snoopy42> ok these are trivial I would write stack manipulation words in assembler anyway
15:53:11 <Snoopy42> oh, cool!
16:07:24 <OrngeTide> there was that one cardboard computer. it was base-10 base and you'd rotate these little wheels to perform operations.
16:09:16 <Snoopy42> btw. ?if does not work with tick in Reva, propably because the error output thrashes carry
16:11:14 <crc> probably
16:14:01 <Snoopy42> well ist supports depth for the stack depth so I used this dirty hack:
16:14:01 <Snoopy42> >r ' r> depth 1 - =if ." not found" cr ;; then
16:14:24 <Snoopy42> nope this one:
16:14:27 <Snoopy42>  depth >r ' r> depth 1 - =if ." not found" cr ;; then
16:16:57 <crc> hmm, that's a bit ugly :(
16:17:42 <Snoopy42> I know, but what should I do? ;-)
16:18:38 <Snoopy42> the problem is that ' returns the address or nothing and does not set carry
16:19:04 <crc> hmm
16:19:32 <Snoopy42> ald all that hussle because I wanted to have a 'forget'!
16:19:38 <Snoopy42> *and
16:26:37 * crc has no idea why ' ?if isn't working in Reva :(
16:27:58 <Snoopy42> it's no biggie, now that I know what the problem is I'll probably throw out the error msg, didn't like it anyway ;-)
16:29:30 <arke> :)
16:30:46 <Snoopy42> I got it: In words.asm carry got eaten up by a 'jc'
16:30:55 <Snoopy42> I just commented it out:
16:30:57 <Snoopy42> findc:	call find
16:30:57 <Snoopy42> ;	jc word_not_found
16:30:57 <Snoopy42> 	ret
16:31:18 <Snoopy42> sorry for the ugly tabs!
16:31:20 <crc> : ' parsews find ;
16:31:21 <crc> heh
16:31:26 * crc is used to tabs
16:32:07 <Snoopy42> hehe
16:32:54 <arke> :)
16:32:56 * crc is working on the block editor code a bit
16:33:22 <Snoopy42> happy coding!
16:33:52 <crc> I'm almost done :)
16:35:13 * Snoopy42 is curious about the editor
16:37:39 <crc> it's included with RetroForth 8 :)
16:39:38 <Snoopy42> hmm, do you have a rough ETA?
16:40:01 <crc> for the officially stable 8.0? Late June or early July
16:40:27 <crc> You can get the prereleases from http://retro.tunes.org though (updated at least once a day)
16:42:08 <Snoopy42> hey that's cool, havent seen any hint on the homepage!
16:42:59 <crc> I mention it occassionally on the forum
16:43:13 <crc> And in #retro :)
16:44:13 <tathi> and in here :)
16:44:27 <crc> and in #c4th-ot and #concatenative :)
16:44:32 <crc> and in #forthmud...
16:45:15 <Snoopy42> holy crap, I hope your multitasking is enabled! 
16:46:53 <crc> it is
17:03:42 <crc> the editor changes are done :)
17:05:00 <Snoopy42> I took a short look at the "old" one, is there any doku on it?
17:05:06 <crc> not really
17:05:36 <crc> If you're using rf8, you can do "load lib/tutorial edit" to go through a tutorial (slightly out of date)
17:05:50 <crc> http://www.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?RetroEditor
17:05:54 <crc> some notes on using it
17:06:07 <crc> (I remove the top block today)
17:06:14 <Snoopy42> sweet, I'll take a look
17:07:25 <crc> tomorrow I'll update the tutorial to reflect the new changes
17:10:35 <Snoopy42> opps, already 2.00 here, I better stop forthin' for today!
17:13:50 <Snoopy42> thx for all the info, see ya!
17:15:29 <crc> bye
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17:22:39 * crc is working on a tutorial for RetroForth 8
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19:37:53 <kryptech> is the answer to the universe still 42?
19:38:16 <arke> Yeah
19:38:31 <arke> but we're still not too sure about the question
19:38:47 <kryptech> what question?
19:39:14 <arke> the question of life, the universe, and everything
19:39:24 <kryptech> and what is there to not be sure about
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19:40:20 <kryptech> knowing everything is so bothersome, its like I get half way through a movie and say, "I already know how its gonna end anyway"
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19:40:32 <arke> :)
19:41:53 <kryptech> I am looking for an algorithm that will generate all integer palindromes between A and B
19:45:52 <arke> whats a palindrome again, i forgot
19:46:08 <kryptech> a sequence that reads the same foreward as backward
19:46:15 <arke> Aah i see
19:46:28 <kryptech> I can find them, but not quickly
19:47:03 <kryptech> well.... I'll try..
19:47:06 <kryptech> bye
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19:47:10 <arke> lol
19:52:12 <arke> saon: there?
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