00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.03.19
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04:58:21 <ecraven> good morning
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13:01:15 <Herkamire> is there something wrong with this C:
13:01:16 <Herkamire> typedef struct {
13:01:16 <Herkamire>         static void (draw)(void*, int, int) = 0;
13:01:16 <Herkamire>         int x;
13:01:16 <Herkamire>         int y;
13:01:18 <Herkamire> } widget;
13:01:26 <Herkamire> gcc doesn't like that seccond line
13:01:58 <Herkamire> is that a C++ only thing?
13:02:02 <arke> you can't have a static in a struct
13:02:04 <arke> afak
13:02:14 <arke> err
13:02:25 <arke> oh
13:02:30 <arke> take out the =0 and see if that works
13:03:05 <Herkamire> no difference.
13:03:10 <Herkamire> says parse error before static
13:03:44 <arke> o.O
13:03:52 <arke> what happens if you take the static out, same?
13:04:07 * arke is confused...
13:04:48 <hyrax> you can't declare a function inside a structure in C. You can declare a pointer to a function though.
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13:05:13 <hyrax> and I don't think you can may a default assignment either
13:05:33 <Herkamire> must be c++ you can do that
13:05:51 <Herkamire> it works without the statics and =s
13:05:52 <hyrax> yah, you can in c++
13:05:57 <Herkamire> ok
13:06:01 <Herkamire> it's been a long time
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13:07:33 <hyrax> strong-man? you going to beat us up for talking c/c++?  :)
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15:39:24 <djo> is it possible to have if structures without "else"
15:39:40 <djo> somthing like "0 5 > if 5 5 * then"
15:39:51 <crc> yes
15:39:56 <crc> else is optional
15:40:21 <crc> some forths (like mine) don't even have "else"
15:40:23 <djo> oki thinks
15:40:30 <crc> n/p
15:41:53 <TheBlueWizard> djo: why did you ask?  just curious
15:43:20 <djo> I have a school project to make a forth compiler/interpreter and it's the first time I meet forth...
15:43:44 <zardon> heh
15:43:51 <zardon> lucky you
15:43:59 <djo> not so
15:44:09 <Topaz> i wrote a FORTH cross-compiler before i wrote my first useful FORTH program ;)
15:44:09 <djo> i have to make it with haskell
15:44:18 <Topaz> ergh!
15:44:22 <Topaz> sounds fun :D
15:44:29 <zardon> cool school
15:44:31 <djo> soooo funnn
15:44:57 <zardon> better than being a java queen at the end
15:44:58 <djo> it's the first time I meet the tow languages
15:45:16 <Topaz> a recent school project foolishly said we could use any language we wanted
15:45:19 <zardon> two very different language types
15:45:20 <Topaz> i'm sooooooo tempted to use FORTH
15:45:25 <Topaz> they're not going to understand it in the slightest
15:48:36 <zardon> and then feel threatened and flunk you :)
15:48:50 <Topaz> haha
15:49:20 <zardon> java is the one true language of instruction
15:49:36 <zardon> don't know what a loop is? no problem this is an abstract class
15:51:46 <Topaz> java is one of those languages where newbies never have to spend hours finding fiddly segfault-causing pointer bugs
15:52:14 <Topaz> so people never have any experience at finding fiddly segfault-causing pointer bugs, and freak when they meet the RealWorld(tm) ;)
15:52:24 <zardon> and have no concept of memory
15:52:40 <Topaz> yeah, that doesn't really help
15:53:05 <TheBlueWizard> djo: the IF ... [ ELSE ...] THEN construct can be implemented like this: IF pushes the address of offset to be fixed....ELSE fixes that offset and pushes the address of the branch offset....THEN fixes the offset (note that it works on either IF or ELSE's branch offset)
15:53:22 <zardon> no matter how lame pascal may be, its better than java for 1st year intro programming i reckon
15:53:29 <TheBlueWizard> that's how you can have an optional ELSE part :)
15:53:35 <Topaz> i really should try pascal
15:53:43 <Topaz> i've written lots of VHDL, which is very pascal-like, i understand
15:53:52 <Topaz> but never anything properly procedural
15:55:01 <TheBlueWizard> classic Pascal is properly procedural (no OO)
15:56:08 <djo> TheBlueWizard, what do you mean by "the offeset to be fixed" ?
15:57:26 <Topaz> the oen thing about FORTH that will forever confuse you (as it does me) is the difference between compile and run time
15:57:28 <TheBlueWizard> do you know the BRANCH?
15:57:46 <zardon> the THEN part is a forward reference, so you don't know the displacement when you hit IF or ELSE
15:57:49 <TheBlueWizard> like...BRANCH <offset>
15:58:39 <TheBlueWizard> uhh....THEN just resolves the offset (actually, THEN is better thought of as END-IF, but old habit die hard ;)
15:59:30 <TheBlueWizard> e.g. .... IF ( do true case stuff ) ELSE ( do false case stuff ) THEN ....
16:00:17 <TheBlueWizard> djo: anyway, that <offset> for either BRANCH or 0BRANCH is what I was talking...these have to be resolved
16:03:56 <djo> TheBlueWizard, I don't understand what is "BRANCH" :(
16:04:30 <arke> ok back
16:04:31 * arke took a nice nap
16:04:38 <zardon> its a jump
16:05:02 <TheBlueWizard> it is a hidden word compiled by IF and ELSE (and certain other words) that changes the IP....
16:05:17 <TheBlueWizard> a jump, yeah
16:05:25 <TheBlueWizard> concrete example:
16:06:26 <TheBlueWizard> suppose we are compiling : foo IF 5 * ELSE 7 + THEN ; into some usual threaded based format, like this:
16:08:53 <djo> TheBlueWizard, i'm listning :)
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16:09:24 <TheBlueWizard> <flag> FOO <link> (DOCOL) 0BRANCH <offset> LITERAL 5 STAR BRANCH <offset> ( ELSE makes the first offset point to here ) LITERAL 7 PLUS ( THEN makes the second offset point to here)
16:09:43 <TheBlueWizard> )DOSEMI)
16:09:49 <TheBlueWizard> (DOSEMI) even
16:10:12 <TheBlueWizard> that's what it may look like in the resulting "code"
16:10:58 <TheBlueWizard> when IF compiles 0BRANCH, it usually also put in a stub for offset usually 0...)
16:12:03 <TheBlueWizard> in fact the Forth word for IF might look like this:    : IF COMPILE 0BRANCH HERE 0 , ;
16:12:15 <TheBlueWizard> see how it works?
16:13:01 <arke> yeah
16:13:16 <djo> hummmm
16:14:28 <zardon> heh
16:20:24 <djo> thinks TheBlueWizard 
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16:44:47 <TheBlueWizard> djo: you might want to look at <MARK >MARK <RESOLVE >RESOLVE words that some Forths use to implement this offset resolving machinery
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18:39:45 <slava> hi I440r 
18:47:00 <I440r> hi
18:53:44 <slava> 'sup?
18:57:11 <slava> I440r, i've been working on a powerpc factor compiler in the last few days
19:30:23 <I440r> cool!
19:30:34 <I440r> not much, trying to get my head back into coding
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