00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.03.07 00:00:32 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 02:06:40 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] () 03:55:00 --- join: Quartus (~trailer@ansuz.pair.com) joined #forth 05:36:52 --- join: Alex_ (~Alex@196-220.suscom-maine.net) joined #forth 05:37:23 --- quit: KB1FYR (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:05:28 they elected me programming director for epiar! 06:05:30 :D 06:21:22 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:50:45 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 06:51:50 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] (Client Quit) 07:02:53 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 08:21:35 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:21:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 08:54:24 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:40:29 --- join: Topaz (~top@cerberus.saywell.net) joined #forth 09:45:34 --- quit: docl (Remote closed the connection) 09:59:17 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 09:59:41 --- join: I440r (mark4@rrcs-24-242-160-169.sw.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 10:15:36 --- quit: tathi ("pysanky workshop") 10:41:36 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 11:26:51 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 11:43:49 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@63.250.24.234) joined #forth 12:03:57 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] () 12:06:19 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 13:00:37 --- join: Bunny_351 (~felix@Bc192.b.pppool.de) joined #forth 13:03:07 --- join: Freejack (~nicad@c-24-11-30-248.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:08:35 Hey...what's the usual method for looking up a numbers code in the ASCII table? i.e. So I can display it as a character or string? 13:09:26 --- part: Bunny_351 left #forth 13:19:01 --- nick: warpzero -> owarpzer 13:22:07 in isforth you can do 'A' . 13:22:11 or 'A' h. 13:22:43 in other forths you use the overly verbose CHAR A . 13:22:51 or ASCII A . 13:23:03 notice the lame "upper case forth words" bs 13:23:05 :P 13:25:18 I've noticed. Heh. 13:26:11 But I'm not looking for letters, I'm translating numbers 2 3412 16 etc... into ascii representations for output. 13:26:48 I dont think there's a 3412 in the ascii table. Heh. 13:27:30 The AMD Optimization Guide has a big long assembler routine for doing it. Thinking I might use that. 13:28:03 '2' . 13:28:14 or ascii 2 . 13:29:42 some ans forths also support another format i consider stupid 13:29:46 'A 13:30:02 i.e. no closing quote making the whole thing look totally unbalanced 13:30:07 thats for LAZY people 13:30:27 '3412' ? 13:30:30 no 13:30:50 if you want to convert 3412 to a number just let the compiler do it for you 13:30:52 3214 . 13:31:00 or : blah 3214 ....... ; 13:31:42 And that outta pop out the correct ASCII representation? 13:31:51 Most of the time? 13:31:52 dot does that 13:32:00 Gotcha. 13:32:03 any number . displays that number 13:32:25 or if you want more control over how the number is formatted you can use the <# # # # # #> stuff 13:32:32 * Freejack nods 13:32:52 but it usually works on double numbers so you should zero extend if the number your working on is single precision 13:33:02 0 <# \ start converting a number 13:33:21 And from . I can code up .stream .fd etc... 13:33:30 # # # # \ always display as FOUR digit number (i.e. use leading zeros if number isnt that big) 13:33:54 'x' hold \ insert an x into the number ####x(more stuff here maybe) 13:34:23 #s #> \ #s completes conversion of number and #> ends convertion 13:34:33 you now have an address and a length at the top of the stack 13:34:39 Gotcha. 13:34:41 type \ display the converted number 13:35:23 This is fun. 13:35:30 :) 13:36:22 0the <# # char hold #s #> gives you control over the format of the number, you can insert colons or dashes for dates or times etc 13:36:48 the definition for . is : . 0 <# #s #> type ; 13:37:37 I440r_ : Does the "code" word work for Assembler in isforth? 13:37:37 this uses the minimum number of digits to display the number 13:37:55 oh and it always converts using the CURRENT BASE!!!! 13:38:13 no therse no code word in isforth theres ;code tho but thats not for assembler 13:38:13 * Freejack is taking copious notes 13:39:01 Freejack: this channel is logged by clog...do a /whois on clog to find out where the logs reside 13:40:28 Gotcha. 13:41:40 I was looking at http://dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/forth/forth.html, the section on Assembler, and wondering if I should code up an optimized routine for number->ascii translation. 13:41:44 so you can grab a log file and edit it at pleasure 13:42:11 I440r_, minor correction -- the definition of U. is : u. 0 <# #s #> type ; 13:42:27 upi dont really need to, forths number conversion routines are way better than c's :) 13:42:31 . is a bit more complicated, has to handle the sign 13:42:35 quatrus err yea thats what i said :) 13:42:37 hehe 13:42:59 Yeah, the bottleneck for your app isn't going to be the number->ascii output routines. :) 13:43:31 Quartus: So true. 13:44:27 forths number output routines ROCK compared to other languages 13:44:42 just set the required base and your set 13:44:57 decimal 123456 3 base ! . decimal 13:45:01 For integers. Floats are a bit more work, but the underlying <# # #> and so on can still be used with great success. 13:45:03 or 4 base ! or whatever 13:45:17 isforth doesnt as yet support floats 13:45:36 and im opposed to them in general anyway, integer maths is orders of magnitude faster and no less accurate 13:45:40 Ed on comp.lang.forth has done up an excellent fpout routine for float display. 13:46:10 Magnitudes are exactly where integers fall down -- floats are required for some work. 13:46:15 ill have to look that up when i get my assembler (the assembler will be the foundation for all floating point operations) 13:46:31 I440r: That kinda depends...if I was pushing screen coordinates to a GPU, floats would probably be faster. 13:46:34 not if the magnituds are powers of 2 :) 13:47:13 if the FPU were an integer engine it would be ALOT FASTER. 13:47:25 Then it'd be an IPU. 13:47:29 erm what processor was it that had an integer fpu ? 13:48:00 they did it wrong because it wasnt a separate entity from the main cpu 13:48:17 i.e. you cant do paralell operations on it. thats where it was fubar. 13:48:18 I440r_: Probably, but it just so happens that GPUs are usually just gigantic FPUs. 13:48:36 Most apps that need floats don't need blinding speed -- they need reproducible results, expected rounding modes, etc. 13:48:55 i wonder just how many MACs a modern GPU can perform 13:48:56 I440r_: modern x86 is already engineered to favor the speed of FPU over IPU...in fact GIMPS (the program used to search for next mersenne prime) uses FPU to do the math 13:49:25 even though from a mathematical standpoint it doesn't need FP at all 13:49:44 yea but if they put the same engieering into a integer unit it would be orders of magnitude faster than what we currently use 13:50:04 and floating point is naturally obfuscated to everyone except maths professors 13:50:09 I agree... but the "reality" violently intervenes :) 13:50:20 and in general math ppl make very poor coders (present company except4ed :) 13:50:21 I don't know about that -- FP isn't that hard to get a reasonable handle on. 13:50:40 because they think of mathematical operations not processor operations 13:50:45 I440r_: Chuck Moore has an advanced degree in math IIRC 13:50:52 so do you :) 13:50:55 there are exceptions 13:50:59 hehe 13:51:21 but in general when i look at a math geeks code i can generally make it 10 times smaller and 10 times faster even if i dont understand the math behind it 13:51:29 unless they do stupid things like use recursion 13:51:36 which is another thing math ppl tend to do 13:52:01 actually I do think quite a number of math guys make good programmers...I can name a few such friends of mine who has math background and now work in computer industry 13:52:06 : fib 0 1 rot 1 do tuck + loop nip ; 13:52:27 That runs into a pretty hard wall on a 16-bit Forth. :) 13:52:31 that does 90 million operations in the same time it takes the recursive method to do 10 or so 13:52:45 16 bit forths generally are embedded these days 13:53:09 and memory is limited. anyone who does floating point on an embedded app is silly imho 13:53:14 Not all of'em. On the other hand, the only time I ever see a fibonacci routine is when somebody is showing how to code around recursion. 13:53:43 true. you also never see an ackerman function except in benchmarks either 13:53:55 tho im told it has application in strong encryption methods 13:53:58 Well, if you look at the Palm, for instance, it's kind of embedded, kind of not. Lots of applications for FP on that. 13:54:09 * TheBlueWizard challenges I440r_ to code up an iterated version of partition function (evil laughter) 13:54:12 and th eackerman is about the only recursive operation that cant be done better itterativly 13:54:20 partition ? 13:54:38 quicksort also doesnt lend itself to itterative methods either 13:54:44 Alright...How about the FFT? What are the typical comparisons on that? 13:54:54 but then, i would find a better way to sort (i.e. radix counting) 13:55:00 and blow "quick" out of the water 13:55:17 never coded one 13:55:37 a partition of a number is the number of ways to write it as a sum of smaller numbers. Example, 5 can be written as 1+1+1+1+1, 1+1+1+2, 1+2+2, 1+1+3, 2+3, 5, so p(5) is 5 13:55:44 Hehehe.... I440r's "Lickity Split" Algorithm. 13:55:49 but i bet thers an integer method that can do the same thing 13:56:32 tbw does that function have any practical use what so ever ? 13:56:34 TheBlueWizard: Now your talking concatenative programming. 13:56:38 the partition function is defined in a recursive fashion, and there is no known closed formula for it...it has number of interesting properties, and is used fairly often in math and advanced physics 13:56:59 The Identity function. 13:57:01 i can see an itterative way to accomplish it 13:57:01 Freejack: huh? 13:57:15 but it would take inordinate ammounts of memory :) 13:57:26 but then the recursion stack would also do so for large numbers 13:57:31 i.e. 29784562934756293478562938456293476 partition 13:57:32 * TheBlueWizard smiles...he knows I440r_ would take the bait ;) 13:58:10 it would work backwards tho 13:58:21 put the inital number (lets say 5) in an array 13:58:33 TheBlueWizard: Joy is totally based on that principle. 2 dup * 1 + 2 * 5 dup * etc... 13:58:36 subtract 1 from the inital number and put it in the next array entry 13:58:59 so we now have 5 as a result and 4 1 13:59:02 * TheBlueWizard isn't familiar with Joy 13:59:24 I was telling I440r about it a few days ago. 13:59:37 actually this isnt as easy as i had thunked 14:00:31 ok, i can still see an itterative method but it will take two very large arrays to accomplish :/ 14:00:40 Effectively reproducing the recursion stack. 14:00:46 because thers no way to know how many items in the array will be needed 14:01:30 quatrus some things just dont lend themselves to itterative methos but 99 times out of 100 the "functions" that exhibit this property have no practical use what so ever or theres an itterative method to do the same thing thats better 14:01:48 i.e. itterative quick sort is always bad 14:01:48 For certain values of 'better'. 14:01:54 * TheBlueWizard laughs...and points to http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PartitionFunctionP.html for further info 14:02:01 but the sort operation can be done ALOT better without quick 14:02:07 i.e. radix/counting sort 14:02:25 I440r: Heapsort? 14:02:37 Same same? 14:03:23 take a 50 million heapsort also rocks! 14:03:32 * TheBlueWizard overlooks one more sum for n=5 case: 1+4, and he miscounted...so p(5) is 7 14:03:40 sorry about that 14:05:15 When's the last time you had a 50-million-item real-world dataset that you needed to sort? 14:06:01 I440r: I suppose fixed point isn't a bad compromise. 14:07:46 If your range is small and well-defined, fixed point is good. I've used bignums successfully in some applications too. 14:13:22 Somebody coded up a "map" word for Forth. Trying to find it. 14:16:17 Ahhh. Here we go...http://wiki.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?HigherOrderFunctions 14:17:25 That's gonna be nifty. Just gotta refactor it a little bit. 14:21:49 bbl 14:21:50 --- quit: Freejack ("Leaving") 15:12:25 --- join: aum (~aum@60-234-138-239.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 15:17:25 --- quit: cmeme (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:19:42 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 15:19:58 --- quit: cmeme (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:20:50 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 15:26:33 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 15:34:35 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 16:04:39 --- join: docl (~docl@dpcbw098171.direcpc.com) joined #forth 16:32:05 hi all 16:36:22 --- quit: aum () 16:51:16 Hi crc. 16:51:37 Hi Quartus 16:51:50 What's the news of the world? 16:52:04 I don't know 16:52:21 * crc gets depressed reviewing most news 16:52:27 heh me too 16:52:29 Heh. 16:52:46 I am making good progress on RetroForth 8 though 16:52:47 Quartus: so do you rely on other ppl to tell you the news also? ;) 16:53:20 It's more akin to a general "how are things"-type greeting, actually :) 16:54:17 crc, this is good. What's new with it? 16:57:06 --- nick: Alex_ -> KB1FYR 17:00:57 i like the chinese way of greeting someone, instead of saying "how are you" which would be "ni hao ma" they say "ni hao" which means "you are good" 17:01:31 some ppl incorrectly greet with the ni hao ma (ma makes things a question) 17:02:13 i say "you are good?????" and stare at the same time 17:02:22 it makes ppl really think i care 17:04:01 --- join: solar_angel (~jenni@HSE-Toronto-ppp167019.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 17:04:27 smooch solar! 17:04:43 heya I440r :) 17:05:06 Looks like the party is starting. Quartus, solar_angel, and free beer. 17:05:16 free beer? 17:05:33 On this side of the monitor. 17:05:36 :P 17:05:38 make mine a JD 17:05:53 Actually I lie. I'm alcohol free. 17:05:56 beer is bad for you. it makes you think you can sing 17:06:05 lol 17:06:29 Hey, Toronto, eh Solar? 17:06:40 I can't sing at all, but I plan to become a Canadian Idol 17:06:54 yes Quartus. what of it? 17:06:56 All I need to do is build my speech feedback software. 17:06:59 Here too. 17:07:12 solar you have heared of quatrus forth yes ???? 17:07:13 * thinfu resides in Calgary. 17:07:22 no, i haven't. 17:07:31 its for the palm pilot 17:07:31 No reason you would have -- it's for the Palm. 17:07:35 ah 17:07:42 i heard of Mary, though 17:07:44 that was a fun system. 17:07:49 i heared of it long before i ever owned a palm :P 17:08:13 Is it still raining? I can't tell from here. 17:08:19 no clue 17:10:30 Empirical testing required. :) 17:10:55 well, i *am* planning to go for a walk before too long 17:11:38 Me, too. Looks like rain but only a little -- where I am, anyway. 17:12:31 hi all 17:12:45 Hi arke. 17:13:25 where is asau 17:13:36 i wanted to ask him a question about skip carter 17:14:27 Is he a Skip Carter expert? 17:15:32 depends, where is skip carter located? 17:16:13 Monterey, I think. 17:18:42 --- nick: owarpzer -> warpzero 17:25:08 he has some admin rights on skips site from what i can tell from something he said in here 17:25:42 but from what i can tell skip has dropped off the face of the earth, and ive seen postings about "and who is going to be maintaining the forth.org ftp site now" stuff 17:25:47 like... did skip die or something ? 17:25:49 or retire ? 17:27:35 I know FIG is no more, and he was President for awhile; maybe it's just in relation to that. 17:27:48 Forth.org was the FIG mouthpiece, and I suppose FIG funds paid for it. 17:28:07 ya maybe 17:29:03 He's still alive as far as I know. The FSL is being managed by somebody else now though. 17:30:15 k 17:30:29 i dont like the fsl anyway. its 99% ans and... well you know how i feel :) 17:32:08 I440r_: you're one to talk, isForth is almost like C ... 17:32:09 j/k 17:32:09 j/k 17:32:10 j/k 17:32:10 j/k 17:32:12 j/k 17:32:15 j/k 17:32:17 j/k 17:32:19 lol 17:32:20 JUST KIDDING 17:32:22 :D 17:32:55 isforth is better than anything ive seen that was ans :P 17:33:03 but then... i KNOW isforth inside and out 17:33:19 * crc prefers retroforth ;) 17:34:01 ;) 17:34:19 * arke is afraid I440r_ might burst and slap me with an oversized trout 17:34:30 --- join: Sonarman (~snofs@adsl-63-196-0-2.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:34:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 17:34:44 not a trout 17:34:47 try my kimber :) 17:34:49 no 17:34:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r_ 17:34:51 thats too small 17:35:00 try my adl-700 :) 17:35:24 anyway, time to go home 17:35:50 bye I440r_ 18:04:24 hi tbw :) 18:04:24 hehe 18:10:00 heh 18:12:22 hrm 18:12:25 i feel loooove 18:12:25 :D 18:14:28 --- quit: solar_angel ("night!") 18:18:44 goodnight 18:34:31 --- quit: Hyrax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:35:43 hey arke 18:40:45 argh hyrax was here grrr 18:40:50 i wanted to talk with him lol 18:47:43 --- mode: ChanServ set -oo arke crc 18:47:43 --- mode: ChanServ set -o thinfu 18:49:18 --- join: Hyrax (~das@adsl-64-219-100-33.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 19:06:00 Sonarman: teh hies Sonarman 19:06:50 I440r: you spoke his nick and here he is! Scary! 19:06:59 :) 19:08:21 ;) 19:14:17 arke: hi, whatcha been doing lately? 19:25:28 Sonarman: c0d3 m0nk3y 19:25:45 got elected programming director for epiar, oh joy 19:25:50 sweet :) 19:25:57 :D 19:25:58 poor guys 19:26:01 epiar wont last long 19:26:02 lol 19:26:06 j/k 19:26:13 i've been looking into functional programming 19:26:19 learning haskell and ml 19:26:45 oh, and today my mom asked me if i'm gay, lol 19:32:59 coincidence? 19:33:04 I think not! 19:33:17 ;) 19:34:55 are you ? 19:34:56 lol 19:34:56 haha 19:35:04 Sonarman: how did she get that idea lol 19:35:10 lol i just saw herks answer lol 19:35:16 that was COLD man :P 19:35:21 :D 19:42:30 Sonarman: that kinda sucks, but maybe she thinks you should be dating girls instead of compilers 19:43:42 haha, sorry for the delay 19:43:45 I440r: no :P 19:44:02 it was because i let this girl paint my nails 19:44:29 Herkamire: lol 19:45:09 lol 19:45:14 did you get to grope her ? 19:45:20 that would make it worth it :P 19:45:27 unless she was like a kiddie :/ 19:45:30 nah, i didn't want to get nail polish all over her clothes 19:45:30 oopts! 19:45:35 lol 19:45:41 take the cloaths off first! 19:45:42 duh! 19:45:53 hehe 19:46:09 actually, letting a girl paint your nails is cool. it shows you have no hangups :P 19:46:24 but i would have groped 19:46:42 i went around school with painted nails; it was cool 19:46:51 lol 19:47:25 the best response i heard was "What the FUCK?!?' 19:48:07 lol 19:48:08 --- quit: Hyrax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:48:28 now a picture of me with those nails is likely to be displayed during a slideshow that all students will be subjected to 19:48:37 lol 19:48:51 beat them to the punch, put it on your web page 19:48:55 with a foto of the girl 19:48:59 naked if possible 19:49:01 :) 19:49:06 her i mean :) 19:49:33 that clarification was really necessary :P 19:49:47 lol 19:49:57 had to make sure youunderstood 19:50:03 cuz im not ghey either :P 19:50:18 aww... what about feminine guys? 19:50:31 with painted nails? 19:50:32 hmmm.. let me think about that..... NO!!!!!!!!! 19:50:37 lol 19:50:52 brb 19:51:08 * Sonarman apologizes to #forth 19:51:10 sorry. 19:57:17 painted nails are OK as long as they are black ;) 19:59:39 silver's nice too 20:00:06 yeah 20:00:16 dont want to be mistakened for goth :P 20:00:17 i'm going to get rid of this shit as soon as my sister gets home; i'll need her help with the nail polish remover 20:00:56 --- quit: docl (Remote closed the connection) 20:00:56 actually when i think about genetically engineering myself i imagine transforming my skin into a highly reflective silver/chrome color 20:01:01 and having black nails & eyes 20:01:04 entirely black 20:01:13 i dunno about my teeth tho 20:01:15 black teeth = lame 20:01:16 lol 20:01:18 teh hies 20:01:26 naah 20:01:34 the human body is suxxx0r 20:01:48 arke: obviously i'd be able to re-engineer on the fly 20:02:01 but for walking around on planet earth 20:02:06 the silver body would be fine 20:02:08 unless i was low on energy 20:02:14 then i'd switch to black and absorb radiation.. 20:02:29 you suck. i'd just harness the vacuum energy 20:02:48 Sonarman: yeah, the little vacuums in your brain.. 20:02:55 hurr hurr 20:03:14 fill 'em with your love, futhin 20:03:31 vacuum energy = really tiny spaces 20:03:38 plently of spaces in anyone's brain.. 20:04:07 isn't that what vacuum energy is? or have i misunderstood? 20:04:17 depends on what you mean 20:04:53 if you have two plates and you put them really close together, a negative energy thing happens 20:05:00 casimir effect 20:05:05 I think he is talking about the zero point energy of a vacuum...which *has* energy (infinite according to QED) 20:05:31 well the cosmos has energy, the earth spinning, etc 20:05:38 um...not negative energy....just a difference in energy level...that is what Casimir effect is about 20:06:07 um, iirc, they are developing theories about actual negative energy 20:06:16 eh 20:06:31 there is 'dark matter' too, but it doesn't mean its not an artifact of scientific processes 20:06:43 even 'particles' are artifacts of observation 20:06:51 a quantum 20:06:54 i don't think there's dark matter 20:07:02 i think the theories are flawed in that direction 20:07:05 its just a term 20:07:06 they are 20:07:13 and that eventually a better theory will come into place 20:07:27 i thought string theory was far too arbitrary 20:07:30 well better theories keep coming 20:07:37 even mtheory is just a theory 20:07:39 but reality is not 20:07:40 and there's a trend towards getting rid of that i think 20:07:47 theology can span the gap 20:07:57 theology is just a theory 20:08:02 with no proofs 20:08:02 no it's a topic 20:08:06 not a theory 20:08:11 fuck spanning the gap anyways 20:08:20 fuck being stuck in a pit of logical hell :) 20:08:25 and theories 20:08:34 its not really hell 20:08:47 there's no meaning to life. big deal. why is that a cause for despair? it isn't. 20:09:21 we just came into existence as far as i'm concerned. we eat and shit and build mounds. 20:09:24 heh 20:09:30 "_ 20:09:34 :) 20:10:15 i think trying to believe that we're unique over other animals or over nature or over evolution is only going to lead you into seeking extraneous meaning 20:10:35 when perhaps there is none 20:10:36 thinfu: yes, we are not theories :) 20:10:41 yes 20:10:42 hence the theological use 20:10:48 spawning a multitude of useless shit poetry 20:10:48 ;) 20:10:54 an explanation from the point of view of the supraliminal. 20:10:54 ianp: what theology 20:11:00 cosmic theology 20:11:14 um 20:11:23 i hope you're not mixing up the terms philosophy and theology 20:11:29 are you arguing that theology is useful? 20:11:33 no, philosophy is love of wisdom 20:11:36 i can see how philosophy is useful 20:11:38 no, it is useful 20:11:43 especially in physics 20:11:49 but how is theology useful? 20:11:54 does theology try to answer questions? 20:12:05 besides crap like "is there a god?" 20:12:07 depends on the scientist... but yes. 20:12:07 :P 20:12:14 ok 20:12:18 whats the diff between theology and philosophy 20:12:22 'is there a god' seems more like a vacuous logical argument 20:13:08 theology is the study of the nature of god (theos), philosophy is the love (phil) of wisdom (sophy) 20:13:30 heh, you can't really define philosophy by breaking it down into its words 20:13:34 and i suspect the same for theology 20:13:36 theology can be about bullshit religions endeavors or study of idols 20:13:41 but it can also be about pure physics. 20:13:50 at any rate, theology is a subset of philosophy 20:13:53 science is a process, anyone can be a halfass scientists and get confused by theories 20:13:59 every ology is... 20:15:15 the problem with theologists and religious people is anthropomorphizing God, or makingit a worldly thing, rather than using it as a tool to explore the nature of the cosmos itself- like Einstein and Hawking did. better terms for God are 'Prime Mover' and 'First Cause'.. i think in mathematics it's the 'great attractor' 20:15:38 you seem to be arguing for theology.. "theology can span the gap" but i could replace that just as easily with "philosophy can span the gap" 20:15:43 I'm a bit outspoken on this, having been of the camp that would consider this stupid previously, so having truely realized the error of my ways 20:15:52