00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.03.01
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08:45:54 <Serg[GPRS]> hi folks
08:46:12 * Serg[GPRS] just shot a few fat-snow photos and a rush in subway
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09:10:55 <Serg[GPRS]> hi 
09:12:45 --- nick: Raystm2_ -> Raystm2
09:30:07 <Herkamire> hi
09:30:27 <Herkamire> nice :) dillo (cvs version anyway) seems to support SSL and FTP just fine
09:30:38 <samc_> how's life in the greenhouse?
09:31:12 <Herkamire> greenhouse?
09:31:23 <Herkamire> it's been snowing all night :)
09:32:19 <samc_> I was talking to Serg[ GPRS]
09:32:28 <samc_> did you see Raskin died :(
09:32:37 <samc_> and just after the grant
09:32:52 <Herkamire> yeah
09:33:08 <Herkamire> didn't hear about the grant though
09:33:51 <samc_> the raskin centre recieved 2mil (I think) not so long ago
09:34:26 * Serg[GPRS] is against point'n'drool i-faces
09:34:33 <samc_> http://www.raskincenter.org
09:34:56 <samc_> yep 2mil 1/5/05
09:35:00 <Serg[GPRS]> mac'n'win makes ape out of user
09:40:26 <samc_> in contrast CLIs make crazy people out of users -- talking to simple inanimate objects
09:45:57 <Serg[GPRS]> wanna anecdote ?
09:46:19 <Serg[GPRS]> once i had a girlfriend, complete 0 in any technical things
09:46:39 <Serg[GPRS]> (at my opinion by the time of happening)
09:47:44 <Serg[GPRS]> we accidently talked somrthing on computers, and she said (attention!)
09:48:07 <Serg[GPRS]> Why people need mouse if computer can be controlled normal way ?
09:48:59 <Serg[GPRS]> i nearly swallowed my breath - is she Unix geek ?? (after months of knowing each other ;)
09:49:39 <Serg[GPRS]> the answer was easy: she had some minor xperience w/ a tape-loaded micro like Z80 ;))))
09:49:59 <Serg[GPRS]> ---
09:50:23 <samc_> hehe
09:50:27 <Serg[GPRS]> so sometimes even non-geeks can easily grok CLI ;))
09:50:27 <samc_> there was also that star trek episode where they went back into the past and encoutered a mac classicand scotty (?) picked up the mouse and started talking into it
09:51:02 <samc_> ooh, lots of 'ands' makes me sound like I'm ten
10:01:40 * Serg[GPRS] just put this story to LiveJournal (in RU)
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10:07:35 <samc_> cya
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10:14:30 <ASau> Serg, username?
10:14:58 <ASau> God kvaell!
10:23:06 <Serg[GPRS]> ??
10:23:36 <Serg[GPRS]> seen no-mouse story above ? how do u like it ?
10:26:15 <ASau> What's your LJ-name?
10:26:43 <ASau> Interesting enough.
10:26:44 <Serg[GPRS]> cryptomancer_ (notice underscope)
10:26:51 <ASau> OK.
10:27:54 <ASau> It approves my theory that anyone can meet "an average user" with very unusual needs and very unusual experience.
10:28:14 <Serg[GPRS]> that girl now got married to some 40-y province man, and a child
10:29:30 <ASau> Good luck to her.
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10:39:23 <zoly> g'day
10:40:51 <ASau> Guten Abend!
10:41:47 <zoly> hi ASau
10:44:14 * Serg[GPRS] afk
10:58:58 * Serg[GPRS] back
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12:19:35 <Freejack> Hey I440r, does IsForth have a "case" word?
12:25:18 <Freejack> bbl
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14:35:18 <Herkamire> yep. CLIs are easier to use even for newbies.
14:35:21 <Herkamire> http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6282
14:35:37 <Herkamire> oops, that was a page back
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15:19:14 <crc> BACK
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15:42:01 <Topaz> hmm, for my cross compiler, i'll be redefining a lot of FORTH words to point to the target instead of the host... is it common to use the same names as the originals, or prefix them with something?
15:42:31 <crc> I use a ' prefix 
15:43:10 <crc> the idea being that you can alias the words with different names later
15:43:20 * crc does this in his target compiler
15:59:40 --- nick: skylan_ -> skylan
16:00:06 * crc plays with infix math in forth
16:01:14 <crc> kind of interesting to see forth code like:  1 + 2 .
16:01:29 <Topaz> surreal...
16:01:53 * crc adds an 'infix' plugin for retroforth 8
16:03:56 <arke> ewww
16:03:58 <saon> crc, why?
16:04:05 <crc> just for fun
16:04:10 <saon> isn't that...un-retro? =p
16:04:13 <crc> why else?
16:04:43 <crc> just a trivial bit of code :)
16:04:46 <crc> 0 : infix wsparse >number ;
16:04:46 <crc> 1 : '+ infix + ;  : '- infix - ;  : '* infix * ;  : '/ infix / ;
16:04:58 <crc> (ignore the 0 and 1, those are line numbers from the editor)
16:05:33 * crc wouldn't even think of putting this into the core
16:07:24 <Raystm2> howdy crc :) what are we looking at here ?
16:07:39 <crc> Raystm2: a bit of trivial code that allows infix math to be done
16:07:48 <Raystm2> oh 
16:07:48 <crc> 1 '+ 2 '* 3 .
16:07:49 <crc> 6
16:07:55 <Raystm2> nevermind not please :)
16:08:00 <crc> ?
16:08:35 <Raystm2> i'm sorry, I mean, please, I would rather not infix in forth personally. 
16:08:50 <crc> it's *not* built into retroforth
16:09:15 <crc> it just exists as a simple hack as a loadable plugin
16:09:21 <Raystm2> oh thank goodness for that-- you know i'm easyily confused so ..... :)
16:09:29 <crc> :)
16:10:11 <Raystm2> I appologize for even thinking ....
16:10:17 <Raystm2> :)
16:10:27 <crc> if you wanted it, you'd have to say "load plugins/infix e" 
16:10:38 <crc> (after downloading the plugin yourself)
16:10:49 <Raystm2> s'wat happens when you come in the middle of a convo and don't look UP first .
16:11:01 <Raystm2> thanks
16:11:02 <crc> :)
16:11:04 <crc> n/p
16:11:23 <crc> the new video code in the L4 port will work out good I think
16:11:35 * crc is considering adding it to the native port as well
16:13:00 <Raystm2> oh yeah new vid code, where can I read more about it. has it been in your recent mails cuz i've been away for a few days and need to catchup desparately.
16:13:14 <crc> http://retronews.forthworks.com
16:13:20 <Raystm2> k
16:13:24 <Raystm2> thanks again :)
16:13:32 <crc> always has the latest major happenings in the retroforth world :)
16:13:37 <crc> again n/p
16:13:49 <Raystm2> Page looks great BTW
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16:14:34 <crc> thanks
16:15:36 <Raystm2> with only one critique, if your not to terribly offended?
16:15:41 <crc> sure
16:16:11 <Raystm2> i can't read the labels on the right box "main" "related ....
16:16:31 <Raystm2> the grey and the blue are two closely hued :)
16:17:19 <Raystm2> I know there are words there but the search bar is much brigher than the grey words around it and the grey words become hidden.
16:19:45 <Raystm2> of course -- if that's the affect you intended, then well done, cuz I don't have to be reminded of the catagory names that I can glean from the much brighter text below each grey word, and the affect was just lost on my ignorance to your art work which is execellent , :)
16:21:16 <crc> look now
16:21:21 <crc> should be better
16:21:33 <Raystm2> k checking 
16:21:40 * crc forgot to change that when he set up the blue color scheme
16:22:24 <Raystm2> ya that does main and related forths and they look perfect -- just need the otheres 
16:22:36 <Raystm2> categories
16:22:39 <Raystm2> search
16:22:45 <Raystm2> archives
16:22:47 <Raystm2> meta
16:23:24 <Raystm2> is this a templete or did you design the page?
16:25:25 <Raystm2> oh wordPress
16:26:05 <crc> fixed
16:26:17 <crc> I've made some changes to the layout...
16:26:18 <Raystm2> looks great :)
16:26:24 <Raystm2> cool :)
16:26:29 <crc> it's slowly getting more like http://retro.tunes.org
16:26:56 <Raystm2> Oh cool I hadn't seen this yet. 
16:27:04 <Raystm2> very pro dude nicly
16:27:42 <crc> thanks
16:28:01 <crc> retroforth.org will use that design as well once 8.0 becomes stable
16:28:49 <Raystm2> of course I still love the look of the RetroForth site. One of the first things that caught my eye to forth was the look of your site and the fact that somehow I found the #c4th-ot chat from your site.
16:29:20 <crc> :)
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16:35:09 <Raystm2> wow the doc is .... yeah!! 
16:37:03 * Raystm2 is standing and clapping. 
16:37:27 <Raystm2> well done, sir. much well done recently.
16:38:12 <crc> I still have a lot of work to do
16:38:40 <crc> but the forth core is already far more stable than any prior version
16:38:43 <Raystm2> you have set a high bar :)
16:39:01 <crc> I *will* reach the bar I set.
16:39:09 <Raystm2> can i privmsg you please?
16:39:13 <crc> sure
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16:39:48 <crc> Hi asymptote
16:40:04 <asymptote> Hi crc
16:41:10 <Raystm2> sorry crc, later I have to do it later :) bye
16:41:23 <crc> ok, bye Ray
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17:39:10 <arke> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=mizzelphug&items=25&page=1&frompage=-1&iid=-1&de=off
18:13:12 <I440r> who was freejack ?
18:34:35 <crc> no idea
18:36:25 <I440r> he asked me if isforth supported case statements
18:36:57 <crc> I saw that
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18:39:03 <I440r> :)
18:39:07 <I440r> hi tbw!
18:40:38 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r! :)
18:40:44 <TheBlueWizard> how's life?
18:41:09 <I440r> going ok :)
18:43:26 <TheBlueWizard> good...I am still in that strange netherworld...almost 7 months now!
18:43:42 <I440r> :/
18:43:57 <I440r> ya i been there 
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18:45:29 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...I am still being paid, but my fate remains unknown...as I said, strange
18:46:26 <I440r> ya
18:46:33 <I440r> so they are paying you to NOT work ?
18:46:42 <I440r> thats better thatn not being paid to not work
18:47:49 <TheBlueWizard> no...I am on admin leave, and there is no work for me to do at home (everything that would be work related often requires physical access to servers)
18:48:27 <I440r> but ur still being paid
18:48:44 <I440r> ?
18:50:53 <TheBlueWizard> yes
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19:16:28 <crc> goodnight
19:23:42 <Herkamire> 19:08 <@crc> Raystm2: a bit of trivial code that allows infix math to be done
19:23:42 <Herkamire> 19:08 < Raystm2> oh 
19:23:42 <Herkamire> 19:08 <@crc> 1 '+ 2 '* 3 .
19:23:42 <Herkamire> 19:08 <@crc> 6
19:23:50 <Herkamire> um... how do you get six?
19:24:08 <crc> hmm
19:24:12 <crc> bugs :)
19:24:28 <Herkamire> correct answer from algebra would be 7. from your code, looks like it should be 9
19:24:54 <crc> it is 9 now
19:25:09 * crc had a minor typo in the original code
19:25:16 <Herkamire> ahh :)
19:25:55 <Herkamire> can easily make it so the thing after the symbol can be a word?
19:26:14 <crc> I could probably do that fairly easily
19:26:20 <Herkamire> bl word execute or some such
19:27:11 <Herkamire> not that I'm really interested in infix
19:27:19 <Herkamire> makes things to complex and hard to factor
19:28:04 <crc> : infix wsparse find ?if execute ;; then >number ;
19:28:04 <crc> : '+ infix + ;  : '- infix - ;  : '* infix * ;  : '/ infix / ;
19:28:14 <crc> now I have to go to bed... 
19:28:21 <Herkamire> 'night :)
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20:49:15 <swalters> Is "thread" forth jargon for the internal representation of a single word?
20:51:51 <TheBlueWizard> "thread" refers to how the word is encoded as an address (or as a token in token threaded version)
20:52:36 <swalters> so, threading would be one amongst many methods of encoding?
20:52:42 <Herkamire> oh, you mean like "subroutine threaded"?
20:52:58 <Herkamire> swalters: no
20:53:08 <Herkamire> threading means encoding in that context
20:53:15 <swalters> I don't know...  It's a word that is thrown around in a couple of papers I've read anbd I'm trying to figure out the context.
20:53:19 <Herkamire> threading model is the way that code is campiled
20:53:46 <swalters> Okay, so there are many threading models, each a different encoding technique for the compiled code?
20:53:58 <Herkamire> there's "direct threaded" "indirect threaded" "subroutine threaded" and probably others
20:54:22 <Herkamire> right. in some forths when you compile a definition such as:  : foo bar baz ;
20:54:49 <swalters> *nodnod*  The article mentions all three.  So, a "thread" would be one segment of code that is the definition of a word?
20:54:50 <Herkamire> it just writes an array containing the addresses of the functions bar and baz
20:54:50 <TheBlueWizard> swalters: subroutine threaded is the easiest one to understand....and I believe the word "threaded" comes from all those jumping back and forth
20:55:06 <Herkamire> I don't know what "thread" would mean
20:55:13 <swalters> Okay...  That answers my question.
20:55:55 <swalters> In this context, come it seems to mean a string of addresses that internally encode the definition of a word.
20:56:12 <TheBlueWizard> roughly yeah
20:56:14 <swalters> I'm reading "moving forth," btw...  It describes implementing forth on several different systems.
20:57:00 <swalters> It discusses each threading style, but it didn't give me enough context to know what the word means.
20:57:42 <swalters> http://www.zetetics.com/bj/papers/
21:09:11 <swalters> A block is akin to a library?  It's just a bunch of word definitions designed to be loaded dynamically.
21:17:40 <Herkamire> a block is 1024 bytes of memory
21:17:43 <Herkamire> or on disk
21:17:50 <Herkamire> often containes source code
21:18:08 <Herkamire> referenced by number
21:18:17 <Herkamire> eg to compile/run code in block 2 you would do "2 load"
21:18:35 <Herkamire> in some systems odd numbered blocks are documentation
21:22:49 <swalters> so essentially, it's the same thing as a block of data from the disk or a page of memory, but it was quasi-standardized 15+ years ago?
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21:26:33 <TheBlueWizard> swalters: in early FORTH days, the editor screen size was such that one can fit 16 lines by 64 chars wide in it...and it came to 1024 characters total, and there began intimate relationship between blocks on disk and blocks of editable things
21:30:40 <TheBlueWizard> bye all
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21:42:15 <swalters> Thanks again for the patience with my simplistic questions.
21:43:34 <arke> :)
21:44:30 <swalters> I assure you all that I'm an experienced programmer.  Forth, however, has a culture and language all its' own.
21:45:18 <arke> yep
22:14:02 <Herkamire> :)
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22:15:16 <swalters> night all...
22:15:23 <arke> good night :)
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.03.01