00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.02.23 00:13:43 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 00:34:44 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 00:50:23 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] () 03:08:48 --- join: rob_ert (~rostling@gjalp.nada.kth.se) joined #forth 05:27:07 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:37:00 --- quit: rob_ert (".") 06:49:53 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 07:03:06 --- join: skylan_ (~sjh@dialup-216-211-47-39.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 07:16:25 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11:02:14 --- join: zol1 (~l@ppp-62-245-210-38.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 11:03:04 AMD licenses Patriot Forth Chips 11:06:53 ShBoom and PSC1000 technologie 11:21:42 --- part: zol1 left #forth 11:26:12 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 11:26:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 11:46:19 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:48:16 --- join: xamu (zazz@dh051-118.chem.sunysb.edu) joined #forth 12:49:58 --- join: zol1 (~l@ppp-62-245-210-38.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 12:51:01 forthfreak wiki had up to about 10 requests per second for more than an hour now 12:51:40 cooled down a bit now, to about 0.5 .. 1 request/sec 12:52:06 actually, for two hours already 12:53:05 hasn't been that busy before 12:55:32 spam? 12:56:14 nope 12:56:24 you know heise ? 12:56:29 c't magazin ? 12:57:58 aah yeah 12:58:28 the AMD licencing of PTSC Forth tech carried a link to the forthfreak wiki 12:58:40 in their new ticker 12:58:59 cool 12:59:32 when that news item got published, traffic exploded 13:00:09 news ticker ... 13:01:40 (that's actually how i got aware of the article...) 13:02:19 connection going up by factor 3000 is not usual for the wiki 13:03:16 zol1, howdie 13:03:43 hi SeaForth 13:03:49 congrads on the slamming about jsforth 13:03:50 --- nick: zol1 -> zoly 13:04:05 beg your pardon ? 13:04:18 didn't you get slammed from the forthfreak wiki? 13:04:23 for the 13:04:48 ah 13:04:48 anyway, hope jsforth gets some more exposure. 13:05:00 really dig what you have been doing with it the past 2 weeks. 13:05:16 no, that was probably because i'm about the only one with the psc1000 reference online 13:05:23 lol, ah 13:05:25 :( 13:05:35 * SeaForth was excited, now he'll just go and jump around the room alone. 13:05:37 AMD has licensed their Forth tech 13:05:55 article hit the public about 2 hours ago 13:06:04 ah 13:06:16 * SeaForth no longer excitable. 13:06:17 i think that's interesting 13:06:23 very much even so 13:06:45 * SeaForth goes back to finding bugs in Sensetalk, and about to abandon it for Ruby 100% 13:06:47 let's see what they are going to do with it 13:06:52 btw, I have started the ruby port of jsforth. 13:07:08 ah 13:07:16 good idea :) 13:07:23 Well, I'm hosting the IORCC. 13:07:30 so I figured it was apporpriate. 13:07:30 i was considering a python port 13:07:38 but ruby is a good choice too i think 13:07:45 ruby is fairly cool. 13:07:55 fairly clean object model. 13:08:27 not sure how portable to ruby jsforth is 13:08:38 i'm harly using any OO stuff of js 13:08:40 hardly 13:08:54 I'm not sure it is either. I was thinking of doing bashforth but then figured I'd try to get jsforth over first. 13:09:01 You don't have to do OO in ruby. 13:09:12 you can write functional code, or object code, or function/object code. 13:09:15 Its pretty flexible. 13:09:25 Kinda like lisp, C and ST wrapped together. 13:09:34 its a little bizarro at times. 13:09:49 jsforth is definitely more complete than bashforth 13:09:56 and more compliant to ans 13:10:01 that is why I choose jsf first. 13:10:17 seen the SEE facility ? 13:10:21 * SeaForth is today not concerned about ANS, but someone down the road no doubt will be. :) 13:10:23 yes, I saw it. 13:10:26 lol, nice. 13:10:36 may be good help for porting 13:10:42 I tried to do webblocks but of course Safari blows. 13:10:48 ah.. right 13:10:51 mozilla ... 13:10:57 I'll have to reinstall FF and use it. 13:11:30 25 million downloads now on FF, funny how pundits are still saying that FF is not worthy of a look. 13:12:08 who cares whaat others are saying ? 13:14:00 well, I read that crap and then I just laugh. 13:14:20 anyway, nice work on jsf, it is amazing how much real work you have accomplished and how slick it is all looking and working. 13:14:35 what's FF ? 13:14:46 oh, firefox? 13:15:12 thank you SeaForth 13:16:14 the ALLOCATE/FREE which i added recently works very nicely 13:16:37 zoly: how's it work? 13:16:42 there's some animated stress test on screen 28 or so 13:17:19 Herkamire: freed chunks go to a second stack, are combined there. what is at the end is returned to the host. 13:17:39 well, not really a stack 13:17:57 Herkamire: SEE works on ALLOCATE and FREE 13:17:58 do you keep it sorted? or search through for chucks that could be combined? 13:18:07 Herkamire: i sort it upon FREE 13:18:19 then i recombine 13:18:34 could probably do insertion 13:18:37 cool 13:18:39 would be quicker 13:19:19 but even so it is not a slug 13:19:41 had it stress test running for about 100 hours now 13:19:53 (several machines) 13:20:37 cool 13:20:44 you can choose chunk search strategy 13:20:59 switch between first fit and best fit 13:21:06 ( FIT ON / FIT OFF ) 13:21:26 how's the stress test work? you just allocate random sized chucks? 13:22:05 random size allocate, or random free. which action is determined by random as well 13:22:31 i set a max of 500 allocated chunks 13:22:55 thus when 500 chunks is reached, it will random free anyway 13:23:14 cool 13:24:01 how do store the list of free chunks? simple array? linked list? 13:24:14 array 13:24:21 same as used chunks 13:24:29 only, used chunks are not sorted 13:24:45 each used chunk carries an index into array 13:24:54 and array contains pointer to chunk 13:25:15 make it easy to verify validity of specified chunk 13:25:43 sorted chunk i need only for combining 13:25:49 or returning to host mem 13:26:06 oh you track allocated chunks too 13:26:34 sure 13:26:42 huh 13:28:46 sometime I wanna try making an allocator that tracks free chucks as a linked list 13:28:58 where the link elements are actually stored in the free blocks 13:29:22 so I only need one or two pointers of storage as overhead 13:29:47 but I don't need an allocator atm, so I just think about it 13:29:48 right. because of js as host, i don't need to keep tracking info in forth mem 13:30:29 --- part: SeaForth left #forth 13:33:00 oh right, javascript 13:33:24 speaking of which... is there any way to get javascript to draw pixels? 13:34:17 you could put a selection of images on the server, with different pixel patterns, and selectively load them into the visible page 13:34:42 hmmm 13:35:03 a bit like drawing with old home computers, by modifying the font 13:35:12 :) 13:38:51 you could also do a POST or GET from server, with the pixel map, and have the image generated by cgi 13:39:11 yeah, I've done that 13:39:23 I'm just trying to think what I can make more interactive 13:40:11 "interactive" or "quicker" ? 13:40:35 because you can load new documents without reloading the current = open page 13:40:46 yeah 13:40:47 you can load them into a frame 13:40:51 but I don't want to wait for download 13:40:54 true 13:40:59 I want to make a cheesy little applet that can just run 13:41:30 ok, so I could make 16 different images, for the different possibilities for black and white on a 2x2 grid 13:42:11 the more images on the server, the less number of pictures you need to specify 13:42:12 if I gave myself a 32x32 drawing area, then the browser would have to deal with 256 images 13:42:22 thin of 256 or 4096 files ... 13:42:24 think 13:42:29 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 13:42:38 but that could be worse. 13:42:43 why ? 13:42:52 the browser would then have to download, track and cache hundreds or thousands of files 13:43:08 having 8 pixels instead of 4 means, only have the number of files need to be specified 13:43:11 and for it to be fast they would have to be cached 13:43:58 ..only half .... 13:44:27 firefox is set up to cache 50 mbytes default 13:44:38 default setting for squid i can't remember 13:45:32 3x4 pixel array -> 4096 files 13:46:01 I was thinking either 2x2 or 3x3. but 8x1 might be nice 13:46:30 that's how 1-bit graphics usually works 13:46:48 eh, doesn't matter 13:47:06 ok, I can make the files 13:47:17 well, the hardware i.e. video mem is very far away from that point .. 13:47:54 :) 13:48:22 ok, so how do you lay out the image? huge table? 13:48:48 not sure yet. possibly, putting them in several directories 13:48:59 no I mean on the screen 13:49:04 I can generate and name the files 13:52:11 yes, i suppose a table would be right 13:52:41 can't have the browser messing up the layout 13:56:23 --- join: Azure_Ag (azure@h-66-167-210-23.sfldmidn.dynamic.covad.net) joined #forth 13:56:57 I don't know javascript (and I don't want to take the time to learn) 13:57:03 but I think this would be fun 13:57:29 I'd generate the images if you wanna hack this into your forth 13:59:19 dynamic loading from server is in it alreasy 13:59:28 the html part is not 13:59:40 (no need to learn js for that :P ) 13:59:46 I'll do the html 13:59:51 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:00:01 just need to spit out a huge table with ids in the right tags right? 14:00:13 possibly .. 14:00:28 i'd have to guess or try, same as you 14:01:38 Herkamire: there's a word "loadurl" ( a u -- ) in jsforth, which loads the url, given as string, into the bottom window 14:01:57 that's where initially the logo and help screen sits 14:02:12 right 14:02:53 into the top windows you can't load anything graphical 14:03:10 right 14:03:29 the part I don't know anything about is how you change the contents of the html page with the table and all the images 14:03:46 ah 14:04:24 something like document.frame2.mytable.row1.image1.url=pixels/3a.png 14:07:34 #define sizeof(x) rand() 14:07:36 :D 14:09:03 when opening a new empty window, document.write html tags to it could do 14:09:43 therefore, that could work on the help page frames as well 14:09:48 i repeat 14:09:54 #define sizeof(x) rand() 14:09:55 :D 14:09:58 that is so awesome 14:10:44 arke, in TESTSTUFF (vocabulary) is an x word, it executes rest of line as javascript 14:10:49 zoly: can you use that to change some of the contents of the page? or just to [re]write all of it? 14:11:53 Herkamire: you should be able to append to it, linewise. also, wipe it clean 14:12:15 i'm just trying to find out how to write to it 14:14:31 i'm not good at DOM tree traversing 14:15:05 I think it would be pretty slow if you had to rewrite the whole page 14:15:09 well, i know how i can write to the whole screen ... 14:15:15 I really want to be able to just change the src url for an image 14:15:31 that causes also the jsforth input area to disappear *g* 14:15:32 if you can get hold of the javascript object for the image, you can just set image.src = blah.png 14:15:36 supposedly 14:16:31 Looks like Operation Iraqi Freedom is almost over. 14:16:31 Bah, "Operation Iraqi Freedom" is a shit name. 14:16:31 Well what would you call it then? 14:16:31 Why, "Operation Who's Your Baghdaddy" of course. 14:16:43 http://www.devguru.com/Technologies/ecmascript/quickref/image.html 14:18:11 that makes it sound like you can just put name attributes on all your img tags 14:18:33 hi all 14:19:32 hi crc 14:19:43 * arke is off to the doctor now 14:20:00 and then access them as document.images["image name"] 14:21:00 wish me luck :/ 14:31:26 i am heating the office with gravity waves now 14:32:04 document.images["blah.png"] ? 14:32:50 not primitive 14:32:50 word 14:32:51 "document.images is not a function" 14:32:53 why doesn't gforth come with a f***ing s>f primitive 14:33:08 : s>f 0 d>f ; 14:33:12

14:33:24 or : s>f s>d d>f ; 14:33:44 or is it something like this: document.images['pixel0,1'] = "pixels/b5.png" 14:33:47 but its just 14:33:50 zoly: like i know 14:34:32 warpzero: "why doesn't have forthx a function which i could add myself easily" :P 14:34:56 well yeah its just kindof idiotic that it doesn't come built in 14:35:26 warpzero: otoh, why should it have that word ? 14:35:49 there's many word which can be added with a simple half-liner 14:35:49 because because because i use gforth as a dc 14:36:04 should a forth of your choice have them all built in ? 14:36:26 yeah 14:36:31 hahaha 14:36:35 i know i am being unforthlike 14:36:36 but 14:37:02 "why doesn't have forthx a word 'run' which does exactly what my app should do?' " 14:37:17 gahahah 14:38:08 i was kinda surprised when i found that skip and scan are not defined in ans 14:38:35 those you don't write as half-liners 14:38:55 (gforth is pretty much ans) 14:39:10 but it has them both 14:39:32 i don't know what skip and scan do 14:40:11 also I440r ping 14:40:52 : foo s" foo" bl skip type ; 14:41:15 execution of foo output "foo" w/o leading spaces 14:41:26 ah 14:41:40 : bar s" abcdefgh" [char] d scan type ; 14:41:52 bar outputs defgh 14:42:18 sure 14:42:19 i got it 14:42:34 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 14:42:51 I440r_: ping? 14:43:00 hi 14:43:07 hi I440r 14:43:37 I440r: sup man? 14:47:53 hi :) 14:48:10 does anyone here know of a decent news server i can install for here at work ? 14:48:26 I440r, leafnode 14:48:33 no 14:48:37 leafnode isnt a server 14:48:51 it needs an upstream server and it just intelligently fetches the shit it knows you read 14:48:54 it is a server for me 14:49:07 not according to its web site - grrrr fscking ppl 14:49:14 it can act as a stand alone server ? 14:49:27 i fetch and post through it 14:49:32 no 14:49:40 your posting THROUGH it 14:49:41 not TO it 14:49:47 i need to be able to post TO it 14:49:54 then postfix is no mail server 14:50:04 cause i also send mail through it 14:50:15 i.e. it needs to be a 100% stand alone server. not a middle man for some other bunch of servers 14:50:34 there is NO upstream server for me 14:50:49 would be helpful if you specify a bit better what you want 14:50:52 im not talking about posting THROUGH, im talking about a full blown news server 14:51:01 i will be running a news server here at work 14:51:10 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:51:11 I440r_: ietf blah whatever the standard one is 14:51:17 it will not be connected to usenet or anything, it will be a stand alone server 14:52:18 inn is the standard i think 14:52:26 inn ? 14:52:45 that's about what sendmail is for smtp 14:53:02 yeah 14:53:36 Maybe this would work? 14:53:36 http://directory.fsf.org/network/news/Newsd.html 14:53:52 inn is masked 14:55:18 masked? 14:55:39 in gentoo 14:55:50 a masked package is not installable unless you unmask it 14:56:49 >.> 14:56:56 i mean i know 14:57:13 isn't masked here, [ebuild N ] net-nntp/inn-2.4.1 14:57:19 i was just suprised you used gentoo and was wondering if you were talking about something else 14:59:18 i converted to gentoo a while back 14:59:25 probably masked by the ~ thing 14:59:33 (unstable/dev versions or something, IIRC) 14:59:34 yup 14:59:43 no, i do use ~x86 14:59:58 accept_keywords="~x86" 15:00:03 same as me 15:00:06 yea i know i was too lazy to capitalize it heh 15:02:25 warp btw i have a mirror of gentoo at home 15:02:38 distfiles and part of releases 15:02:43 sn says that you can create local newsgroups, so maybe that would work. 15:02:50 sn ? 15:03:04 oh, sorry 15:03:06 http://infa.abo.fi/~patrik/sn/ 15:03:40 actually, newsd looks like it's exactly what you're looking for, but there's no ebuild for it... 15:03:51 I440r_: ah yeah don't you remember though... 15:04:02 I440r_: we talked about isforth and gentoo 15:04:48 yup 15:04:54 forgot that was you :) 15:04:57 yeah 15:05:01 i still dont think its ready for an ebuild yet tho 15:05:04 anyway i wanted to talk to you about isforth 15:05:10 sure :) 15:05:17 in a query maybe 15:05:22 go ahead 16:01:16 --- quit: I440r_ ("Leaving") 16:07:26 back - no thyroid infection yay, weird weak virus that ive never been exposed to, boo, it wont go away completely for several days :/ 16:31:56 --- quit: xamu ("Leaving") 16:37:39 good 16:37:44 maybe just a bird flu 16:41:25 --- part: SeaForth left #forth 16:55:40 --- join: I440r (mark4@rrcs-24-242-160-169.sw.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 17:03:14 anyone in here have any ibm pc dos 6.2 install disks ? 17:03:18 i seem to be missing disk 4 17:03:19 grr 17:03:41 I440r: i think i got one 17:03:52 not ms dos 17:03:55 but ibm pc dos 17:14:14 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4085046.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 17:18:02 whats the difference? 17:18:34 the difference is in the zealotry 17:18:57 I440r: are you trying to install dos? and why? 17:20:51 6.22, but ms 17:20:55 also 5.00 17:31:06 --- join: Sonarman (~snofs@adsl-64-171-255-194.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:48:47 --- join: roliver (roliver@roliver.user) joined #forth 17:53:40 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:08:51 goodnight 19:12:02 Good night. 19:24:41 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:24:57 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-149.nyc-tc03a.fcc.net) joined #forth 19:27:01 Zealotry? 19:29:29 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 19:30:15 madgarden: i was making a joke.. that the choice to use ibm pc ods over ms dos is just being zealous.. 19:31:29 It's not funny... someone could get hurt!!!! :'( 19:33:03 you're right! i'm being to i440r like robert is to thinfu! 19:36:29 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:38:16 and thats not good 19:38:16 lala 19:38:26 because linux wont install lol 19:39:20 Didn't the company that owns DR DOS put it up for download? 19:40:06 I440r: HAHAHAS114ru13ofosaibasdfbsiudbfs 19:40:11 I440r: install ColorForth :D 19:40:28 no i need a dos machine for games :) 19:40:56 :D 19:41:48 I440r: tell me about your installation problem 19:42:11 aren't you already using a computer? 19:42:18 im missing disk 4 :P 19:42:24 Bah, all the games worth playing are Nethack, tetris-bsd, Omega, and the stuff on if-archive.org 19:42:34 erm i have 4 machines here 19:42:37 3 running linux 19:42:47 i also have a very nice scsi raid tower 19:42:49 what are their specs? 19:42:57 you know about dosbox right? 19:43:03 and win4lin & qemu? 19:43:06 ick 19:43:24 the problem machine is a stoneaged laptop 19:43:25 run windows games faster in linux than natively :) 19:43:36 specs of the stonaged laptop? 19:43:46 theoretically it would make a nice linux box but i think thers problems in there somewhere 19:43:54 err i dunno 19:43:58 i ferget 19:43:59 486? pentium? PII? 19:44:06 pentium 1 19:44:32 Why not just install FreeDOS? 19:44:47 because i have ibm pc dos 6.2 19:44:51 all but disk 4 grrr 19:45:12 disk 4 is juts a utilities disk isn't it? 19:45:45 * Azure_Ag idly pokes at giFT, mostly curious if anyone has it up. 19:45:58 Huh. There's lots of . . . pictures of DOS. 19:46:05 no 19:46:08 thats MS dos 19:46:10 puke 19:46:30 --- part: SeaForth left #forth 19:47:11 Oh, cute, DOS screenshots. 19:47:15 Azure_Ag: actually just an hour ago i installed gift and some protocols and a curses based frontend but it fails to connect to any servers 19:47:21 so not gonna worry about it 19:47:44 I440r: freedos is not ms dos.. 19:47:49 --- join: SeaForth_ (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:47:53 Which protocols? And what error is it giving you? 19:48:05 true 19:48:13 but its not pc-dos either :P 19:48:23 --- quit: SeaForth_ (Client Quit) 19:48:45 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:48:46 hi all back from store :) 19:48:57 looks like seaforth is having fun :0 19:48:58 L) 19:49:06 yikes help me type 19:50:00 * TheBlueWizard gives Raystm2 a Dvorak keyboard (it's often said to be easier to type on :) 19:50:01 :) trying to sniff the bloody port for the IRC protocol and how to use it :) 19:50:03 my appologies. 19:50:07 I'll be gone for a while, autologin script is now dissabled. 19:50:14 --- quit: SeaForth (Client Quit) 19:51:00 * Raystm2 accepts generous offer from TheBlueWizard of a Dvorak keyboard and is pasteing on the letters to the keys :) 19:52:24 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 19:52:40 I woundn't complain if you somehow passed one thru the screen . gotta be fun like colorforth keyboard. 19:52:48 and I'm starting to get to know that one. 19:52:59 and it's not bad switching back and forth. 19:53:23 doh!! minor pun sorry. :) 19:53:42 not even a pun more like a pu. 19:53:52 two thirds of a pun. 19:54:05 no pun-ch line 19:55:28 and that was a Raystm2 minute brought to you by TheBlueWizard, magi capable of passing Dvorak keyboards rigth thru your screen. 19:56:09 if I could spell right right I might be all rigth doh!!~! 19:59:04 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 20:00:54 * Azure_Ag idly ponders evil abuses of the language. 20:04:06 appologies 20:06:07 hehe 20:06:30 I wonder if I could get an abomination vaguely close to first-class continuations by copying the stacks and doing evil things with the return-stack. 20:11:00 again appologies :) what like storing the entire data stack there every once in a while and making a huge honking chain of returned comands and there preprocessed stack arguments -- or .... 20:13:45 I'm thinking copying out the data, return, and floating point stacks (though I'm unable to think of a good way to copy out the return stack.), then calling a word that stashes the top of the return stack somewhere and then calls the word you REALLY wanted to call. 20:14:27 And to invoke it, copy things back, put the copied thing off the return stack back on and then do an exit. 20:14:41 Even if it worked at all, I don't think it would be. . . fun to use or practical for anything at all. 20:14:51 I'm just curious if I could find a way to do it. 20:16:40 oh you must mean "putting an AzureProcess up" ya I don't understand the value of that. Unless maybe you were task switching? 20:17:08 Oh, in languages where you aren't abusing things to get it there's lots of value ;) 20:17:17 btw, I don't understand it because i'm undereducated okay :) 20:18:10 There's only two languages I know of that have something like that, and only one likes to talk about it ;) 20:18:41 drum roll. please,........ 20:18:57