00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.01.26 00:11:55 --- join: Topaz (~top@cerberus.saywell.net) joined #forth 00:20:28 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 00:43:27 --- part: zoly left #forth 01:04:26 --- join: ycchang (~ycchang@ycchang.cis.nctu.edu.tw) joined #forth 01:13:30 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02:29:08 --- join: Alterity (~ask@S01060050ba5196ac.ed.shawcable.net) joined #forth 02:35:48 --- part: yumehito left #forth 02:42:13 --- join: aum (~aum@60-234-138-239.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 02:42:54 ahh, finally got allocate/free working 02:51:00 now to refactor the sucker without breaking it 03:00:22 --- quit: Alterity () 03:11:30 --- join: Topaz (~top@cerberus.saywell.net) joined #forth 03:48:52 --- quit: saon|ZzZz ("Lost terminal") 05:07:42 --- join: robert_ (~purple@c-cf78e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 05:13:38 --- quit: robert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:30:21 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:35:19 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-85.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 05:44:13 --- nick: robert_ -> robert 06:15:08 --- quit: onetom_ ("leaving") 08:24:44 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:28:33 --- join: T0paz (~top@sown-86.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 08:28:51 hello T0paz 08:34:08 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09:03:03 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:03:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 09:04:28 hello herk 09:04:50 hi snowrichard :) 09:04:52 hi all 09:05:36 I posted strcmp/find/replace code to the retroforth forum a few minutes ago 09:14:47 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 09:53:52 --- quit: robert ("brb") 09:57:08 --- quit: T0paz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:00:51 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-86.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 12:46:52 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 13:22:07 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 13:36:50 hello anybody here? 13:38:55 yo 13:39:29 how are you today? I am working on cleaning up my house. 13:51:17 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-019.nyc-tc03b.fcc.net) joined #forth 13:57:43 to implement multitasking, or not to implement multitasking... 13:59:39 to sleep perchance to dream. Aye, there's the rub. 14:01:13 now i've got the oo working, i could create tasks as objects, and just implement context-switching 14:02:31 could even do pre-emptive switching, given that i'm using a vm 14:14:17 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 14:16:04 --- join: I440r_ (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 14:16:38 hiya I440r 14:16:42 ycchang hi :) 14:16:43 er, I440r_ 14:16:55 glad you made it :) 14:17:00 <-- at work, will bbl 14:18:13 --- quit: raystm22 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 14:40:11 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:49:24 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-86.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 14:52:23 --- join: onetom (~tom@mail.ritek.hu) joined #forth 14:57:10 --- quit: onetom (Client Quit) 14:57:21 --- join: onetom (~tom@mail.ritek.hu) joined #forth 14:57:48 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 15:06:18 so rewarding to get a homebake forth into a real usable state 15:07:09 then its years of work to add more and more stuff ;) 15:07:16 heh 15:07:54 i got my allocate/free working last night, as well as 'new' to allocate objects off the heap 15:11:35 with all this working, it's very tempting to implement multitasking 15:12:07 class task is object 15:12:25 variable dstk-ptr 15:12:30 variable rstk-ptr 15:12:42 128 buffer stacks 15:12:44 end-class 15:30:09 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 15:55:45 --- quit: crc (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:45 --- quit: onetom (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:45 --- quit: TheBlueWizard (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:45 --- quit: aum (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:45 --- quit: cmeme (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:45 --- quit: Fractal (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: arke (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: I440r (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: slava (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: Raystm2 (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: I440r_ (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: Herkamire (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: ycchang (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: warpzero (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:55:46 --- quit: skylan (Remote closed the connection) 15:55:46 --- quit: SeaForth (Nick collision) 15:55:46 --- quit: hyrax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:55:47 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: skylan (~sjh@dialup-216-211-5-121.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: hyrax_ (~das@adsl-64-219-100-33.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: onetom (~tom@mail.ritek.hu) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: I440r_ (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-019.nyc-tc03b.fcc.net) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: aum (~aum@60-234-138-239.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: ycchang (~ycchang@ycchang.cis.nctu.edu.tw) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: I440r (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: slava (~slava@24.43.80.135) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-69-149-42-7.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: crc (~crc@pool-70-20-194-120.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: Fractal (jah@selling.kernels.to.linus.torvalds.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 15:55:47 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +oo Herkamire crc 16:11:54 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 16:23:53 --- join: Zymurgy (thrud@NorthBay-ppp282328.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 16:26:33 --- quit: Zymurgy (Client Quit) 16:48:02 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 17:03:04 --- nick: hyrax_ -> hyrax 17:22:03 --- join: Sonarman (~snofs@adsl-67-113-234-22.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:25:31 rather quiet in here... 17:25:57 ok, that's arke's cue 17:26:55 arke's been active in #retro :) 17:27:57 cool 17:30:25 next alpha of pic18forth - pic18forth.sf.net - now with oo and dynamic memory 17:39:08 cool 17:39:24 If I had a pic18 and python I'd try it ;) 17:39:42 heh 17:40:19 i should try to separate out the pic18-specific bits and make it easy to implement backends for other ucontrollers 17:40:55 hmm, perhaps even athlon xp 'microcontrollers' 17:49:42 haha 17:49:44 :) 17:49:45 Hi 17:49:53 Hi arke 17:52:16 looking at rf archives 17:52:24 good 17:53:29 hi 18:08:09 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 18:09:57 --- quit: crc (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:17:25 --- join: zoly (~l@ppp-62-245-163-26.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 18:20:07 --- join: crc (~crc@pool-70-20-194-120.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:20:07 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o crc 18:20:47 hi 18:21:00 hi crc 18:21:25 Hi zoly 18:21:35 hi 18:23:11 --- quit: I440r_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:23:12 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:28:24 --- join: I440r (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 18:42:43 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 19:12:58 Goodnight 19:40:07 --- quit: slava (Remote closed the connection) 19:57:51 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-69-149-63-57.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:15:25 --- quit: warpzero (Excess Flood) 20:15:27 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 20:27:02 hi 20:32:59 hi aum 20:34:46 teh hies 20:34:55 zoly: hows jsforth coming along? 20:35:06 just fine 20:35:25 not so much missing anymore 20:35:34 http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki/index.cgi?ForthCoreWords 20:35:39 here's the dev state 20:40:10 i'm just busy replacing error messages against the corresponding throws 20:40:37 then there'll be a redo of the terminal output code 20:40:56 and block file system would be the next step 20:44:03 zoly: thx to your urging, i've got an oo layer and mem allocator for pic18forth 20:44:16 my urging ? 20:44:26 can't remember having urged you ... 20:44:29 weren't you encouraging me to build in oo? 20:44:51 must have been someone else 20:45:00 my apologies, guess it was 20:45:10 oh, that's right, it was slava 20:45:16 you're the jsforth dude 20:45:34 right 20:45:53 actually, got a js question i think you'd know the answer to 20:45:56 i did do some oo work in forth, but my opinion is that oo is a bit overrated 20:46:15 i wouldn't miss it :) 20:46:32 is it possible, in js code, to retrieve the values of cookies stored in respect of domains other than the domain being visited? 20:46:51 for instance, if user hits www.foo.com, can js code in that page read cookies stored by www.bar.com? 20:46:57 "will it be possible", or "is it possible right now" ? 20:47:08 both i guess 20:47:55 there's no specific word for cookies. but "eval" which passes a string to javascript and executes it does exist 20:48:02 i don't mean jsforth 20:48:05 i mean js 20:48:16 in fact, there's hardly any non-forthish stuff in jsforth right now 20:48:41 in general, if javascript can do it, so should jsforth be able to 20:49:03 what i'm hearing is that you learn js as needed, that you're not a hardcore js hacker? 20:49:24 jsforth is the first thing is used javascript for 20:49:27 i 20:49:39 didn't know anything about it when i started 20:50:23 thats why it took me so long to actually get started :) 20:50:50 i was waiting till another forth in js would gte to the point that i could contribute 20:51:16 but as it took quite long, i decided to start with it on my own then 20:51:29 that's the rub eh? sometimes the 'someone else' who writes that Needed Killer App is /you/ 20:51:51 plans to write a forth in js are about 1.5 years old now 20:53:02 jsforth implementation is probably not bery javascriptish 20:53:05 very 20:53:40 a hardcore js hacker would have written it in a very different way 20:55:19 from most parts of the source, you can't determine the language 20:55:39 i.e. not javascript specific 20:55:44 just a shame that js isn't more standardised between browsers 20:56:01 browser js incompatibility has ruined a major opportunity for client-side apps 20:56:22 indeed. it would simplify several things if it would be 20:56:41 oh, a /real/ question - will you be providing words to generate/render fancy page content, eg headings, tables, bold, colours etc? 20:56:53 i think so, yes 20:57:04 now that will be good 20:57:11 --- nick: Raystm2 -> spike_anarchy 20:57:15 and, will you be doing oo? 20:57:36 very likely 20:57:40 nice 20:57:49 cause i'd like to use jsforth for web scripting too 20:58:13 but, as long as it runs only on 50% of the browsers, it wouldn't be very useful 20:58:37 the konqueror incompat i should be able to catch with the redone terminal code 20:59:01 opera,ie and safari seem to share the same problem 20:59:29 at least, the first problem. no idea yet how many are still lurking behind that one 20:59:39 if you detect ie, you can always put up a big 'browser error - please use firefox' message 21:00:47 i hope that i might get some help from javascript savvy people to get it running on those browsers which are not supported yet 21:01:24 guess it's a matter of selling js people on the Joy of Forth 21:01:52 for the incompatibilities, no forth knowledge would be required 21:02:45 safari, opera and internet explorer complain about a line where i declare a constant .. 21:03:48 the only thing i was able to think of was the name of the constant. but renaming it doesn't help. 21:05:19 that it doesn't run on those browsers is not the only thing i still have to do 21:05:28 therefore i postponed this problem 21:08:31 ok, old error handling is removed 21:08:42 all errors use throw now 21:13:29 1191 lines code now 21:14:41 110 line containing only 1 closing bracket 21:16:24 1074 lines with real meat 21:20:26 and throw and catch? 21:20:36 work 21:20:47 cool 21:20:56 seem to, not extensively tested yet 21:20:57 catch'es can be stacked? 21:21:00 sure 21:21:15 where you stacking them? data stk? retstk? 21:21:22 return stack 21:21:35 k 21:22:01 parameter stack is more prone to corruption / underflow 21:22:04 and a 'catch frame' ptr pointing to the topmost 'catch' on retstack, or similar? 21:22:13 right. 21:22:23 basically a linked list through frames on rstack 21:22:28 nice 21:22:31 and a variable as anchor 21:22:46 guess i should do a throw/catch for pic18forth as well 21:23:04 that's useful 21:23:10 not everybody likes them 21:23:11 for uncaught exceptions, i could blink an error code to a LED in morse code 21:23:34 uncaught throws execute my top level error handler 21:23:56 so it's like you've got a permanent default 'catch' at the bottom of stack? 21:23:58 which tells what value was thrown 21:24:03 right 21:24:19 if no more catch frame, execute top level error handler 21:24:39 i like throw/catch - it frees the programmer from some of the more anal aspects of forth programming 21:25:15 ditto for oo, locals etc 21:25:18 i like to be able to catch "system" errors in user progs 21:25:23 btw - are you doing locals? 21:25:26 no 21:25:48 i'd recommend you think about implementing it - it's a luxurious thing to have in forth 21:26:02 i'm opposed to locals 21:26:06 eh? 21:26:11 because they teach bad programming habits 21:26:19 eh? 21:26:32 i think globals teach worse programming habits 21:26:37 if you would need locals, your factoring must be flawed 21:27:15 you got two stacks, what you need local variables for ? 21:27:28 random access to parameters in any order 21:27:43 dup over pluck 21:27:48 i can't accept that the desire to operate on 3 or more parms at once reflects 'poor factoring' 21:28:07 well, that's my opinion 21:28:23 2over 21:28:27 (4 already) 21:28:45 i mean, a routine taking 5 args can be factored to operate on them 2 or 3 at a time, but it can distort the normal flow of thought 21:29:40 and, locals can make code vastly more readable to newcomers 21:29:43 i might rethink locals if would have to write code which would require me to temporarily store args in variables 21:29:58 but as long that doesn't happen, my opinion is "unneeded" 21:30:54 if you get that many args on stack, which you need to store as locals, it might be preferrable to have those args in mem already, and pass a pointer 21:31:26 well, i've overcome much of the need for locals by implementing oo 21:31:49 would i be forced to chose between, i'd prefer oo 21:33:31 i'm not opposed to oo :) 21:33:36 just, indifferent 21:35:05 has been hyped too much 21:35:37 there was a time when everything had to be oo, or carry the name, regardless whether its application was useful or not 21:36:30 in that time it was easy to lose sight of those appliations where oo would be actually of advantage 21:41:25 i think attitudes about oo are saner now 21:42:10 i remember the early 90s - there was this superstition amongst the suits that 'oo would cause all software projects to come in ahead of time and under budget' 21:42:31 "the answer to the software crisis" 21:42:50 the best answer to the software crisis is always, and has always been, to write more software :P 21:44:17 * zoly is pondering some more experimental forth contructs 21:46:04 whenever i'm putting another interpreter together, i want to experiment a bit with it 22:01:51 --- join: zol1 (~l@ppp-62-245-161-209.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 22:05:52 --- nick: spike_anarchy -> Raystm2 22:19:02 --- quit: zoly (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:29:39 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 23:29:15 --- quit: aum () 23:44:33 --- quit: Herkamire ("off to bed") 23:45:03 --- part: zol1 left #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.01.26