00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.01.25 00:35:06 --- join: Fractal (jah@selling.kernels.to.linus.torvalds.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth 01:47:22 --- join: Nulled (~Shadow@S01060050ba5196ac.ed.shawcable.net) joined #forth 01:56:05 --- part: Nulled left #forth 02:03:50 --- quit: OrngeTide ("bye") 02:19:20 --- join: crc_ (~crc@pool-70-20-194-120.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 02:19:54 --- quit: crc (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:34:23 --- join: robert___ (~purple@c-7678e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 02:38:20 --- nick: crc_ -> crc 02:38:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 02:40:31 Hi 02:40:40 --- quit: robert (Nick collision from services.) 02:40:42 --- nick: robert___ -> robert 03:19:13 --- join: samc_ (~sam@203-114-131-109.inspire.net.nz) joined #forth 03:27:30 --- quit: samc_ () 03:32:00 --- join: aum (~aum@60-234-138-239.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 03:34:08 hi - anyone here? 04:49:11 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 04:51:42 --- quit: saon (Client Quit) 04:51:52 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 04:57:18 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 05:29:57 --- quit: tgunr1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:31:03 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-65-228-91.c012.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 05:31:49 --- join: Topaz (~top@cerberus.saywell.net) joined #forth 05:38:54 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 05:42:22 Hi, saon 05:46:45 hey robert 06:03:01 --- join: Narrenschiff (~ritchie@itsnotthatbig.plus.com) joined #forth 06:05:29 --- quit: robert (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:08:45 --- join: robert (~purple@c-7678e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 06:16:58 --- part: Narrenschiff left #forth 06:24:30 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 06:46:55 --- quit: saon ("testing something, brb") 06:49:26 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 06:49:46 w00t!! 06:49:49 it worked 06:50:01 * saon snuggles aterm 06:50:18 * robert pets xterm 06:50:38 xterm made the alt+ combos in irssi not work =( 06:50:57 but i use it for everything else basically 06:54:25 --- join: robert__ (~purple@c-7678e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 06:54:58 --- quit: robert (Nick collision from services.) 06:55:00 --- nick: robert__ -> robert 06:55:04 wb 06:55:24 :) 06:55:38 What was the last thing I said? 06:55:54 "robert pets xterm" 06:55:58 =p 06:56:39 15:52 < robert> You know you can use esc a instead, right? 06:56:40 15:52 < robert> And esc 1, esc 2 etc. 06:57:06 * saon snuggles robert 06:57:11 thankyou :) 06:57:34 * saon edits his fluxbox menu to let irssi use xterm instead 06:57:49 i hate the horrible font string i have to use to get aterm to look like xterm 06:58:11 :D 06:59:16 * saon uses the warm green ibm courier 06:59:23 makes me feel oldschool 07:00:00 i actually went to a friends house and they had this at&t unix 3.0 computer, with the friendly green-only screen 07:00:06 i fell asleep in front of it 07:00:36 Awww, how cute. 07:00:46 * robert would like a picture of that ;) 07:01:04 there's a picture somewhere now of me asleep in front of a unix 3.0 computer with one hand still on the keyboard 07:01:44 heh, i don't know where it is, else i'd put it up on my website 07:01:49 Hah 07:02:01 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 07:02:04 That's the #2 reason for wanting to create my own computer 07:02:12 _I_ decide how things should look. :P 07:02:15 Hi qFox 07:02:19 heh, yeah 07:02:23 hi 07:02:29 it even had a really sweet wm on it 07:02:42 and a drawing program 07:02:46 I'll of course make it hard-coded, so nobody can change it. 07:02:51 heh 07:02:53 <3 ROM 07:02:59 :D 07:08:05 * saon is embarking on a journey to computer-guru-dom 07:08:49 Hooray! 07:08:53 today i'm tackling bash shell scripting and learning to properly use vi 07:09:01 ....this is weird.... 07:09:03 Heh 07:09:32 i just had a huge spurt of activity on eth0....for no apparent reason... 07:09:34 I know how to use vi, code asm on a bunch of different computers, I own a brainfuck computer, and I can't type. 07:09:48 * robert <-- atypical nerd. 07:09:52 i'm getting better at typing on my dvorak layout now 07:10:15 i could type about 50-55 wpm on qwerty, 60 on a good day 07:10:25 haven't tested my dvorak skills yet 07:10:35 but i'm around 45-ish i feel 07:10:47 That's way faster than I can tyoe 07:10:49 type 07:10:53 And I make tons of mistakes 07:11:18 any typing for me at less than 40 wpm is frustrating, takes me WAY too long to get anything done or write something up 07:11:43 although for programming, 30wpm works out just fine most of the time, considering all the weird symbols and stuff 07:11:56 ever coded perl? 07:12:40 Yes 07:12:49 It IS frustrating 07:12:53 But I don't know how to get better 07:13:04 I mean, people type like they were born to type at 90 wpm 07:13:06 yeah, i hated having to keep looking down for the symbols 07:13:13 Heh, I don't have to do THAT 07:13:23 i just type a lot 07:13:29 You think I don't? 07:13:41 lol, with all your IRCing, i guess you have to 07:13:48 Right, IRCing and coding 07:13:54 And writing other thigns 07:13:59 So it's not that I don't type enough 07:14:05 I type WRONG, somehow 07:14:25 heh, yeah, hrmmmm, the only thing that helped me was a typing trainer when i was on qwerty 07:14:26 Tried that thing with having the fingers on the home row, but that just feels wrong 07:14:41 Oh, how do they work? 07:14:47 you haven't had formal training before? 07:15:20 For typing? No 07:15:21 Have you? 07:15:27 they basically give you typing patterns to speed up your fingers and then teach you new letters slowly and give you words to type with those letters 07:15:45 Well, I can already type. 07:15:49 "can" 07:15:51 yeah, a little, one single class, the only thing it changed for me was that naw i use my pinkies 07:15:56 I just can't do it at any proper speed. 07:16:03 now* 07:16:09 I use about half of my fingers. 07:16:42 Well, at least I'm not dyslectic. 07:16:48 So I can read what people say.. 07:17:20 heh, that's about how i used to type, i called it "flying eagle style". it's not hunt and peck, but, my hands stayed above the keyboard and just kinda attacked it really fast to keep regular speed using only a few fingers 07:17:35 but that's rough on my wrists and hands in general 07:17:52 real touch-typing on dvorak is so much more comfortable 07:18:06 I bet 07:18:26 This isnt' really uncomfortable 07:18:35 I just hate typing slow and making mistakes. 07:18:40 yeah 07:18:44 Not like my hands are bleeding. 07:19:21 i dunno, from my experience, typing is more about how you remeber common words you use all the time 07:19:51 like, i can type ls and cd .. really fast, but throw a word like plethora at me and it takes a little while to get my hands to type it 07:20:27 dunno why you'd type slowly though, it seems like for all the typing you do, you should be crazy fast at it 07:21:41 BRAIN DAMAGE 07:21:48 heh 07:21:48 (comfortable excuse, isn't it? 07:21:56 indeed 07:22:05 (: 07:29:40 hrmm, i can't seem to copy text from xterm 07:31:45 Works over here.. 07:31:55 ctrl-c? 07:32:15 Huh? 07:32:24 for copying text 07:32:26 Heh 07:32:32 No, just mark the text 07:32:37 And use the middle button to paste 07:32:44 aha! 07:33:36 This will make you hate people typing short lines on IRC. 07:34:12 heh 07:37:08 --- join: zoly (~l@ppp-62-245-209-123.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 07:37:17 hey zoly 07:37:20 g'day 07:40:34 Hi 07:40:45 god dag the_rob 07:42:28 God kväll 07:43:33 god afton 07:44:59 bendning 07:47:02 Hm? 07:47:32 my keyboard hasn't got those scandinavian chars 07:48:05 How can you live without those? ;) 07:48:16 now that you ask 07:48:41 nor do i have tremas 07:49:21 (diacriticals) 07:49:48 on german keyboards, those sit on very stupid spots 07:50:05 exactly where you would find : and ; 07:50:12 and ' " \ 07:50:32 also, [ and ] are somewhere hidden 07:50:41 needing alt keys 07:51:02 Same here 07:51:07 That sucks 07:51:20 You break your hand if you try to type { or $ 07:51:27 Or even [ ] and \ 08:04:49 wow, bash must suck on those 08:05:16 Everything sucks, especially swedes 08:10:50 * saon hungry, time for eat 08:11:25 no i don't :) 08:12:06 (break fingers) 08:12:35 i don't have any keyboard with diacritics 08:12:59 hrmmm 08:13:04 i'm used to touch typing 08:13:16 that wouldn't work if the keys are all at different places 08:13:36 Things don't have to work 08:13:43 i've wondered this before, do other languages have extra marked vowels to express different sounds where english uses an ass backwards 'context' system? 08:13:53 i don't know enough of foreign languages to know 08:14:53 Actually we use them to confuse foreigners. 08:15:04 the diacritc chars in german correspond to sounds which aren't found frequently (if at all) in english words, maybe except the diacritic a 08:15:09 The blacker their skin, the more vowels we throw at them 08:15:26 that one corresponds roughly to the english a, but open 08:15:30 Our "å" isn't strictly necessary, as "o" sometimes has the same sound. 08:15:40 Same thing with "ä" and "e". 08:15:49 "ö" has a unique sound, though. 08:16:09 like in "the borg" ? 08:16:23 open 08:16:46 "borg" (the Swedish word) is an example of where "o" has the "å" sound. 08:17:03 hrmm, but, is the greater number of vowel sounds used to encompass things english can't? 08:17:43 i imagine it provides for better songs and poetry, but, beyond that i don't really know 08:18:34 combine the vowels of "boot" and "break", that's about the german diacritic u 08:18:34 I don't think it makes much difference. 08:19:03 (as one single sound) 08:19:10 hrmm, cool 08:19:24 But Swedish has only ONE sound in "i". 08:19:52 Which is hard to explain for English speakers, used to pronouncing "i" like "aee" 08:19:59 german diacritic o is about the vowel in "burn" 08:20:07 but closed, not open 08:20:24 coolness 08:20:35 * saon should learn some better foreign languages 08:20:49 i've had like, maybe a year or so of spanish 08:21:06 the US's foreign language focus is pretty terrible 08:21:09 Hehe 08:21:15 and the teaching methods suck =/ 08:21:27 What do you need foreign languages for when you're colonizing the world? ;) 08:21:53 i've seen the same book series for years, no teachers even teach spanish without one of these idiot books 08:21:54 Here we have to learn at least 2 foreign languages. But most people only learn English properly. 08:21:57 heheh 08:22:11 i'd like to learn spanish, german, and french 08:22:33 i figure with the spanish background i can easily get a grasp of italian too 08:22:59 yes! i got rid of all occurances of the "temp" variable in jsforth :) 08:23:13 w00t 08:23:35 * saon hunts for independent study programs 08:23:40 school is lame 08:23:49 i got arabic lessons on my desk 08:24:49 the state of florida actually has this thing called the "Florida Virtual School" where you can get real credits for online courses 08:25:11 i figure i can blow through the two BASIC programming courses and CS1 in a month or so, get 3 credits 08:25:35 BASIC programming courses? 08:25:39 You must be desperate 08:26:07 meh, they're easy courses and it can't hurt to have the credits 08:27:05 Before you begin registration, please check that you meet the following technical requirements: 08:27:08 Please use Internet Explorer version 5.5 - 6.0 only when registering. 08:27:10 :( 08:27:12 Do NOT use Netscape browser or AOL browser. 08:27:32 a virtual school that is not compatible with linux....how good can it possibly be? 08:27:39 =p 08:28:12 "this course is sponsored by microsoft, the leader in quality software" 08:28:24 heh, seriously 08:28:51 how difficult is it to port an ActiveX application to something that mozilla can use? 08:29:47 simplfication starts to pay out :) 08:30:19 the biggest "feat" in jsforth, key, is now just: function forthkey() { suspended = w ; } 08:30:27 (w is the word register) 08:30:59 this pisses me off =/ 08:32:05 * saon needs a router, another ethernet card, and some software to protect his winxp from the internet 08:32:20 just so i can take online courses 08:33:15 * saon writes complaint letter 08:43:09 The bank wants me to downgrade my system to Windows to be able to use their "secure" system 08:43:29 That's like "securing" a bank by leaving the door open at night 08:43:54 lol 08:44:17 mail sent 08:44:23 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 08:44:23 --- quit: I440r (Client Quit) 08:44:36 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 08:45:12 argh, i guess i need to stop being cheap and just cough up the money for some more ethernet cards or some wireless cards 08:45:34 ethernet cards cost nothing anymore nowadays 08:45:44 actually, with 3 wireless cards, i could use my computer as a router and we could hook up all the compies 08:45:52 :) 08:45:54 they're down to 2.50$ new here 08:46:02 irc from my freebsd box in text only 08:46:20 yeah, i've seen some insane deals 08:46:20 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:46:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 08:47:03 but i'd love wireless because we have one computer across the house and i really don't want to run about 80' of cat5 overhead just to hook it up 08:48:15 i'd use wpa2 of course 08:49:11 * saon is bored, goes to take notes on shell scripting under bash 08:53:46 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 08:54:09 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:54:21 --- quit: saon (Client Quit) 08:57:41 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:58:25 Shell scripting in bash...well...it could be worse. 08:58:28 (BASIC) 08:58:41 --- quit: saon (Client Quit) 08:59:21 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:59:44 yeah, it could i suppose 09:00:04 finally, my irssi config is nice 09:01:27 :) 09:01:45 That has to be one of the more annoying "features" of all these home computers 09:01:52 Using BASIC as the system language 09:01:58 And decimal as the number base. 09:02:00 now that i'm used to irssi, i'm really liking it over xchat 09:02:11 yeah, that pesky decimal =p 09:02:45 * saon snuggles forth's ability to let me change to base 2 and write cryptic arithmetic programs 09:02:47 Seriously, it's completely useless on a computer AND is less efficient to use. 09:03:11 what would you like? rpn and hexidecimal? 09:03:24 hrmm, actually, i would like that 09:03:42 rpn isn't strictly needed, but it makes the implementation more efficient 09:03:53 Hexadecimal - yes! 09:03:59 * saon likes rpn input, much more natural to me 09:04:11 Of course with ability to handle binary and decimal too. 09:04:23 if i could learn how to do all the algebra in postfix that i already know in infix, i'd be set 09:04:47 hrmmm....*ponders* 09:04:48 Well, some things are much easier in postfix. 09:04:54 i have another project for today 09:04:55 Like inverting a function. 09:04:58 :D 09:05:00 Just write it backwards. :) 09:05:03 hehe 09:05:16 (and invert the primitives) 09:06:54 hrmmm, foiling in infix takes (a + b) * (c + d) and gives ac + ad + bc + bd. in postfix, it'd be a b + c d + * and yield ac ad bc bd + + + 09:06:57 *thinks* 09:07:13 it looks really similar to begin with 09:08:07 i suppose with practice, the notation is rather simple to pick up on 09:11:22 Probably. 09:11:35 Make a computer algebra system using postfix 09:11:38 Write it in Forth. 09:11:40 For the 4004. 09:12:02 that'd be sweet 09:13:13 i would love a forth-based calculator 09:13:18 imagine the power 09:13:37 Yep. Would be nice with a super-low-power one 09:13:48 Like the ordinary pocket calculator 09:13:48 s 09:13:53 yeah 09:13:57 But programmable 09:14:01 yeah 09:14:05 (brb, pizza is ready) 09:14:56 if you scaled it up though to a graphing calc system, with a good CAS, you'd be able to rival the power of the HP calcs in terms of programmability with rpl 09:14:58 forth makes a great calculator 09:15:13 * saon laughs at the ti-89 with it's ti-basic 09:15:14 does some things my scientific calculator doesn't, like handling hex 09:15:21 yeah :) 09:15:32 i've used dc for a while 09:16:20 haven't used forth itself as a calculator much, dc is faster for short things, and for hard things i have my calc with built-ins for most stuff 09:17:09 I haven't bothered to learn dc 09:17:13 perhaps I should. 09:17:29 i don't know it inside and out, but, it's on just about every *nix box 09:17:39 helps to know it sometimes 09:17:48 that's cool 09:18:24 hrmm, *grabs precalc book and attempts to solve problems using postfix notation* 09:20:04 grrrrrr 09:20:18 what's with bc and dc defaulting to only integer precision? 09:20:38 what's the point of having arbitrary precision arithmatic if you round to integer all the time? 09:21:32 whoa, this is cool 09:21:46 *is doing some basic algebraic manips in postfix* 09:22:00 some things in this are so much easier now 09:29:24 distributive property looks so much nicer 09:29:38 15 1 x + * = 15 15x + 09:29:58 instead of 15(1+x) = 15 + 15x 09:30:36 * saon plays with some superfractions 09:31:39 hrmmmm 09:31:56 superfractions.....don't really exist in postfix 09:32:27 x a b / / = x b * a / 09:32:29 hrmm 09:33:19 interesting 09:36:15 it's almost like the trailing sign gives properties to the numbers in little cells. for any string of multiplication and division, you can copy any number across and invert it's sign (mul <-> div) 09:36:29 cool 09:38:12 yes! court decision by german court: providers do not have to provide identity of internet users, who are downloading and/or offering copyrighted music. same ruling as in canada. 09:38:24 w00t 09:38:25 zoly: Nice 09:38:41 news are 4 minutes old 09:39:07 hrmmm, maybe postfix isn't so great here..... 09:39:20 12 4 x 2 + / - 09:39:23 simplify 09:39:26 =/ 09:39:27 I read that another court ordered Siemens to pay the music/movie industry for future piracy made by their customers. 09:39:46 wtf? 09:39:55 that's insane 09:39:57 "product pirating laws only apply to physical distribution" 09:40:12 zoly: That's what the court decided? 09:40:23 saon: Yes 09:40:27 but don't apply to shared music in internet 09:40:34 saon: Politicians have a tendencey to get insane when companies pay them enough 09:40:49 lol 09:40:50 yeah 09:41:16 that's bad news for canadian providers 09:41:31 (competition) 09:42:07 hrmm, i think i need to redefine simple 09:43:12 12 4 x 2 + / - = 12x 20 + x 2 + / 09:43:18 blech 09:44:30 You should visit some crazy professor obsessed with abstract algebra. 09:44:58 i'm starting to see some patterns =) 09:45:05 i call them cell sets 09:45:44 I like to arrange it so that there is rarely two operations in a row 09:46:02 hehe, that's what's showing up in my simplifications 09:46:06 eg "1 2 + 3 *" rather than "3 1 2 + *" 09:46:12 it makes it much easier to manipulate them 09:46:44 It's still pretty one-dimensional. 09:46:59 Using a tree could probably make it easier to interpret 09:47:24 robert: interpret? by humans or computer? 09:47:27 Herkamire, right now i'm trying to do (3/(x^2+x-20))+(x/(x^2+4x-5)) 09:47:30 computers like one-dimentional 09:47:40 Herkamire: Humans. 09:48:21 which is something like: 3 x 2 ^ x 20 - + / x x 2 ^ 4x 5 - + / + 09:48:24 yech 09:48:57 3 x 2 ^ x + 20 - / x x 2 ^ x 4 * + 5 - / + 09:49:19 hehe, that's a bit nicer 09:50:01 yeah, I tihnk "x + 20 -" is nicer than "x 20 - +" 09:50:05 but where do you even begin to simplify? the only thing i've found is to take each symbol and mark off the previous two numbers/variables 09:51:16 then go from there 09:51:38 what makes you think it can be simplified? 09:52:23 it can, it's a problem from my precalc book, i can solve it easily with postfix 09:52:27 infix* 09:53:15 but it seems the definitions of simple are different between infix and postfix 09:55:49 it comes out as (x^3+4x^2-8x-15)/(x^4+5X^3-21x^2-85x+100) 09:55:52 yuck 09:58:41 hrm 10:09:33 trees don't seem to make this any nicer 10:10:02 that's an major difference between math and nature 10:11:09 I'm getting (x^2 - x - 3)/(x^3 - 21x + 20) 10:12:29 hrm? 10:13:10 both denominators were devisible by (x+5) 10:13:18 ack 10:13:24 * saon didn't try to factor 10:16:42 unfortunately, when I got them added together, nothing canceled out 10:18:31 okay, we're getting the same answer now 10:18:48 hrmm, i dunno really what to do with the rpn form of it 10:18:52 it's easy to make a tree with 10:18:59 ...but that's about it 10:20:28 x 2 ^ x + 20 - 10:20:50 x 5 + x 4 - * 10:21:11 yeah, that's what i'm looking at too on the tree (= 10:21:55 factoring is non-obvious to me 10:22:10 same, but i'm blaming it on years of infix 10:22:19 in the textbooks it often seems to work out just right that stuff cancels out 10:22:36 yeah 10:22:46 I wonder if that happens in the real world 10:23:02 also it seems that if it happens in the real world, it's just as likely to happen with weird factors 10:23:11 yeah 10:23:14 hrmm 10:24:18 *tries more factoring problems* 10:25:34 like the numerator x^2 -x -3 factors to (x + 2 - sqrt(13)/2)(x + 2 + sqrt(13)/2) 10:26:17 sqrt(13)? 10:26:30 square root 10:26:40 yeah, i know, where'd you get it from? 10:26:51 factoring x^2 - x - 3 10:26:54 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:26:59 like, how'd you come to that as the factored form? 10:27:11 looking for (x + a)(x + b) 10:27:27 a+b = -1 (coeficient of -x above) 10:27:34 a*b = -3 10:27:45 a= -1 - b 10:27:54 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 10:28:03 (-1 - b)*b = -3 10:28:16 -b^2 - b + 3 = 0 10:28:28 crap 10:28:35 every time I do this I have the minus signs in different places 10:32:30 i have b as (1(+/-)sqrt(13))/-2 10:32:37 right 10:32:41 oh 10:33:15 yeah, somehow I had a 4 in place of that first 1 10:33:20 ah, i see 10:33:22 oops 10:34:06 anyway, point being I wonder how often in real life you end up with integers when you factor polynomials 10:34:21 i doubt it's often 10:35:10 you could use krebs and make a prog to randomly generate coefficients to check how often it happens in quadratics 10:35:31 but then you'd have to eliminate functions that are multiples of each other 10:35:38 --- quit: Raystm2 ("Client exited") 10:35:47 * saon doesn't know how to find primitive quadratics 10:36:03 got a list of a bunch in a crypto book somewhere around here 10:40:34 * SeaForth introduces his cat to SeaForth language... http://levi.dyndns.org:8080/photos/mimi/010905/44.html 10:41:29 SeaForth: lol :) I bet many geeks would have that same reaction ;) 10:44:00 hehe 10:44:01 so cute 10:44:59 what's with programmers and cats? 10:45:26 Both like other humans 10:45:51 we need something to take pictures of with out fancy digital cameras without getting away from the computer ;) 10:45:56 teh hies all 10:46:08 heh 10:46:15 hey arke 10:46:53 Teh hies. 10:48:56 how are y'all? :) 10:49:13 intrigued 10:52:17 :) 10:52:51 I found a new religion. 10:53:11 which oneis that? 10:53:15 does it involve chuck moore? =p 10:53:30 I think so 10:53:45 heh 10:53:48 C64, or 6502 in general, or maybe 8-bit computers in general. 10:54:07 And Chuck, too, likes ancient stuff. ;) 10:54:12 heh 10:54:35 argh, tech support still hasn't responded to me 10:54:44