00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.01.24
00:37:54 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving")
01:46:02 --- join: raystm22 (~color4th@adsl-69-149-42-7.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
01:58:56 <aum> man i suck at assembler
02:00:11 <aum> 54 lines of code for an oo engine, 20 bugs
02:03:46 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-69-149-42-7.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
02:13:51 --- quit: onetom ("leaving")
03:46:38 <SeaForth> that ain't so bad.
03:46:47 <SeaForth> could have 50% bugs.
03:48:18 <aum> at least it's working now
03:48:41 <aum> late-binding oo engine in handcrafted assembler
03:49:16 <SeaForth> http://asforth.dyndns.org:8080/
03:49:29 <SeaForth> well, I started on the latest 'thingy' for my mental temptations.
03:49:51 <SeaForth> AppleScript Forth, or ASForth, pronounced AssForth :)
03:50:03 <SeaForth> pretty appropriate.
03:50:22 <aum> h3h
03:50:26 <SeaForth> I was gonna call it OSXForth, but that was too lame, and then I thought about SJForth, obviously after SteveJobs.
03:50:58 <SeaForth> But dedicating it to Steve would be silly, he is a billionaire and could care less about what runs his computers at firmware level.
03:51:07 <SeaForth> Then I thought, hmmmmmm, how about WozForth.
03:51:36 <SeaForth> I don't think Woz would like that, and I respect him too much to disrespect him for the coattail notority.
03:51:42 <SeaForth> So, its A$$Forth.
03:52:33 <aum> Many few years ago, I was tinkering with a Forth Unified Compiler Kernel
04:01:10 --- join: segher (~segher@blueice4n1.de.ibm.com) joined #forth
04:30:24 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal")
05:08:26 --- quit: segher (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:18:25 --- join: segher (~segher@blueice4n1.de.ibm.com) joined #forth
06:56:20 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
06:57:24 <robert> Hi snowrichard 
06:57:40 <snowrichard> hi Robert
06:58:32 <snowrichard> was playing around with retroforth native and bochs last night
06:59:26 * robert was playing around with his Commodore 128D
07:02:04 <snowrichard> I made a hard drive image and added a "rb" and "wb" words to some editor code I found with google (crc's)
07:04:46 <snowrichard> is the commodore based on 65XX chip?
07:09:59 <segher> it's 8510, but that's compatible to 6510
07:11:05 <robert> So a fancy 6502
07:11:09 <robert> It also has a z80
07:14:02 <snowrichard> need to make some coffee be back in a bit
07:17:12 <madwork> SeaForth, how about ForAST.
07:27:12 <SeaForth> :)  madwork , yes I like 4sum too
07:27:25 <SeaForth> that is a nice play on the swinging scene of forthers :)
07:27:34 <SeaForth> nothing like a little coding and 4sum
07:28:07 <madwork> Huh? What Forther swinging scene? :(
07:28:07 <madwork> ;)
07:57:32 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
09:59:01 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
10:03:30 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
10:06:18 --- join: hyrax_ (~das@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth
10:16:59 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
10:21:08 --- quit: hyrax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:32:01 --- quit: robert (Remote closed the connection)
11:25:54 --- quit: segher ("Leaving")
11:41:42 --- join: robert (~purple@c-7678e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth
12:18:42 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
12:30:41 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
12:41:08 --- join: Sonarman (~snofs@adsl-64-160-165-24.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth
13:34:06 --- join: artoffoo (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth
13:34:35 --- nick: artoffoo -> saon
14:16:15 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:19:09 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth
14:20:57 <robert> Hi
14:24:39 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-65-228-91.c012.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth
14:30:13 --- join: Topaz (~top@cerberus.saywell.net) joined #forth
14:33:54 <robert> Hi 
14:37:34 <Topaz> mjello
14:46:23 --- nick: hyrax_ -> hyrax
15:04:20 --- join: onetom (~tom@mail.ritek.hu) joined #forth
15:07:14 <robert> Hi
15:22:04 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving")
15:53:56 <aum> <advert>
15:53:58 <aum> announcing Pic18Forth alpha 0.0.1 - now with OO - http://pic18forth.sf.net
15:54:01 <aum> </advert>
15:55:55 <robert> Neat, I was just thinking about using a PIC18 as the video chip for a computer projoect
15:55:58 <robert> projoect*
16:08:12 <aum> i recommend the pic18, infinitely nicer than pic16 for only a coupla pennies more
16:11:43 <robert> 0 pennies, if you use the sample program
16:11:51 <aum> heh
16:12:05 <aum> love the free samples policy of these big silicon companies
16:12:14 <robert> Yep 
16:12:24 <robert> What is so much nicer?
16:12:29 <robert> I have only coded for PIC14
16:12:38 <aum> lotsa things
16:12:47 <aum> 1) the pic18 has three FSRs
16:13:21 <aum> and with each FSR, there are 'hotwired registers' that load the byte under the pointer in preincrement, postincrement and postdecrement mode
16:13:50 <aum> 2) program memory is linear - you can feel safe that GOTO and CALL will take you where you want, without having to worry about setting PCLATH
16:14:15 <aum> 3) much more data memory, up to 1.5k of GPR RAM
16:14:24 <aum> 4) more prog memory, up to 32k
16:14:46 <robert> Nice, nice :)
16:15:09 <aum> 5) better control flow - in addition to 'btfsz', 'incsnz' etc, there's the whole suite of 'bz', 'bnz', 'bnn', 'bc', 'bnc' etc
16:15:37 <aum> 6) status reg now has flags for 'negative', 'overflow' in addition to 'carry' and 'zero'
16:15:57 <aum> 7) pic14 and pic16 assembler source can be assembled for pic18, with not much change
16:16:04 <aum> ...
16:16:10 <robert> How about indirect jumps? Easy to make?
16:16:19 <aum> yes
16:16:31 <aum> write the MSB to PCLATH, then write the LSB to PCL
16:16:35 <robert> I'm thinking about using it as a video generator, so I'll have to make tons of lookups in ROM
16:17:16 <aum> lookups in ROM are way fast, there's a special register pair TBLPTRH:TBLPTRL, which indexes program mem with postinc/postdec/preinc/predec modes
16:17:47 <aum> no more need for those wasteful 'retlw someval' instructions
16:17:54 <robert> Ah, cool :)
16:18:02 <robert> So you can use both bytes of an instruction?
16:18:11 <aum> yes
16:18:14 <robert> Wonderful.
16:18:20 <aum> most instructions are 2 bytes (ie, 8-bit bytes)
16:18:37 <aum> but some instructions, eg 'movff' (move from one file reg to another) are 4 bytes
16:18:59 <robert> Cool, so you don't have to use W for everything?
16:19:05 <aum> correct
16:19:18 <aum> you could even write progs which never use W
16:19:21 <robert> Any banking of the RAM?
16:19:29 <aum> yes
16:19:38 <robert> :/
16:19:40 <aum> but if you use one of the three FSRs, you don't need to use BSR
16:19:52 <aum> if you access via FSR, RAM is linear
16:19:57 <robert> Sorry, forgot what BSR is
16:20:06 <aum> Bank Select Register
16:20:09 <robert> Ah, nice. 
16:20:17 <aum> i don't even use BSR at all in pic18forth
16:20:52 <aum> for instance, to move a byte from data stack to return stack, i just do 'movff STK_DAT_POP, STK_RET_PUSH'
16:21:11 <aum> whereas in pic16, i'd be forever messing with RP0/RP1 bits
16:21:51 <robert> Can the pic18 execute code from RAM?
16:21:59 <aum> not without a vm
16:22:04 <robert> :/
16:22:11 <aum> still Harvard memory model
16:22:28 <robert> OK, so I'll add another CPU to the system :)
16:22:32 <aum> heh
16:22:39 * robert has a few z80s
16:22:49 <aum> oh, another thing - 32-level hardware return stack, which is software accessible
16:23:05 <robert> Neat
16:23:10 <aum> and, the chip can take a 40MHz rock
16:23:35 <robert> I was thinking about using a 8MHz one and use the internal multiplier
16:23:42 <robert> That should give me 8 MIPS, right+
16:24:00 <aum> not sure about that - maybe you're better with a 40MHz crystal
16:24:15 <robert> How do you use an overtone crystal with it?
16:24:28 <aum> not sure what an overtone xtal is
16:24:33 <robert> I got a 40 MHz one, but I assume it's not fundamental
16:24:59 <robert> Above ~25MHz crystals become too fragile, from what I've heard
16:25:08 <aum> i haven't even been there - i'm still driving my 18f with the 20MHz rocks i was using for my pic16f876a
16:25:19 <robert> So if you want to go higher, you use a low-frequency crystal and multiply the frequency.
16:25:44 <aum> you'd have to comb the datasheet for info on all that
16:26:16 <robert> Yeah, I was checking it 
16:26:35 <robert> Seems like using the internal multiplier is the easiest way to get there
16:26:45 <robert> Anyway, it's getting late..see you tomorrow :)
16:28:53 <aum> k
16:28:57 <aum> have fun with 18fs
17:01:30 --- quit: hyrax ("Chatzilla 0.9.66c [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041107]")
17:10:22 * crc is back for ~1 hour
17:12:42 --- join: hyrax (~das@adsl-64-219-100-33.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
17:43:22 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
17:44:06 <hyrax> hello snowrichard 
17:44:11 <snowrichard> hi
17:44:20 <crc> Hi snowrichard
17:55:58 <snowrichard> hello crc
17:56:53 <crc> I like your words for reading/writing blocks on the hard drive :)
17:57:47 <crc> I'd like to add them as a part of RetroForth/Native 7.7 if that's ok with you...
17:58:00 <snowrichard> sure
17:58:29 <crc> Good :)
17:59:21 <crc> With a little luck I'll be releasing 7.7 this weekend. It'll be one of the last releases in the 7.x series
18:00:01 <snowrichard> release early and often I guess ; 
18:00:08 <crc> heh
18:00:17 <crc> I don't have as much time as I used to
18:00:31 <crc> (My wife gave birth to our second child yesterday)
18:00:39 <snowrichard> I wrote a string comparison function today
18:00:45 <snowrichard> congrats
18:00:49 <crc> thanks
18:01:50 <snowrichard>  boy or girl?
18:01:54 <crc> Boy
18:02:14 <snowrichard> my son is named Michael
18:02:22 <crc> Name: Arland Edward Childers;  7.3 lbs;  20" long;  dark curly hair  :)
18:03:03 <crc> I now have two sons
18:03:10 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-127.nyc-tc03b.FCC.NET) joined #forth
18:03:17 <crc> Hi TheBlueWizard
18:03:33 <TheBlueWizard> hiya crc
18:09:54 --- quit: aum (Remote closed the connection)
18:21:25 <hyrax> congrats crc 
18:22:58 <TheBlueWizard> congrats?
18:24:09 <hyrax> crc's wife had a baby boy yesterday.
18:31:18 <crc> thanks hyrax
18:32:57 <TheBlueWizard> ahhhh! conrats then :)
18:33:02 <TheBlueWizard> congrats*
18:33:10 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
18:33:11 <crc> thanks tbw
18:49:02 --- quit: TheBlueWizard (Nick collision from services.)
18:49:24 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-127.nyc-tc03b.FCC.NET) joined #forth
18:54:51 --- quit: TheBlueWizard (Nick collision from services.)
18:55:11 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-127.nyc-tc03b.FCC.NET) joined #forth
18:55:43 --- join: tgunr1 (~davec@vsat-148-65-228-91.c012.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth
18:55:58 --- quit: tgunr (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
18:55:58 --- quit: robert (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
18:55:58 --- quit: Fractal (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
18:55:58 --- quit: warpzero (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
18:57:30 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth
18:58:00 --- join: robert (~purple@c-7678e055.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth
18:59:12 --- quit: warpzero (Killed by sagan.freenode.net (Nick collision))
18:59:15 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-65-228-91.c012.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth
18:59:15 --- join: Fractal (jah@selling.kernels.to.linus.torvalds.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth
18:59:15 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@66.109.132.242) joined #forth
18:59:18 --- quit: warpzero (Connection reset by peer)
18:59:22 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth
19:00:25 --- quit: tgunr (Connection reset by peer)
19:16:08 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
19:16:17 --- quit: saon ("leaving")
19:38:03 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth
19:38:40 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r
19:39:20 <snowrichard> hello 
19:39:49 <TheBlueWizard> hiya snowrichard
19:41:03 <snowrichard> crc still here ? 
19:41:15 <crc> yes, for a 15 more minutes
19:41:24 <I440r> hi guys
19:41:59 <snowrichard> I noticed a minor irritation with the keyboard reading.  Back space doesn't work, you have to be a perfect typist.  
19:42:12 <crc> that will hopefully be fixed in 7.7
19:42:29 <snowrichard> do a read line at a time kind of thing? 
19:42:38 <crc> Maybe
19:42:47 <I440r> has anyone here emailed chuck ?
19:42:51 <crc> All ports other than native use line-buffering
19:43:02 <snowrichard> yes I notice linux did it
19:43:04 <crc> being consistant might be good
19:43:34 <snowrichard> I don't know chuck sorry to hear about his wife though 
19:47:42 <snowrichard> how about " some string " find " replacement string " repl for the editor? 
19:48:10 <crc> That'd be nice to have
19:48:41 * crc would like to build a set of useful editor extensions
19:48:48 <snowrichard> I have a strcmp, didn't get much further today
19:49:05 <crc> The editor is built into the main build of retro8, but including everything I'd like would bloat the core too much :)
19:49:23 <crc> I coded a strcmp for thinfu a while back
19:49:31 <crc> I didn't save it though :(
19:50:12 <crc> can you paste your strcmp here?
19:53:11 <snowrichard> can't figure out a way to get it out of bochs short of retypring it.  is about half a screen full
19:53:20 <crc> :(
19:53:59 <snowrichard> only tests for equality not sort order though
19:54:10 <crc> That's good enough
19:54:19 <crc> what's the stack useage?
19:55:18 <snowrichard> I did something like " abc" zt-make " def" zt-make strcmp _flag @ .  (should print 1 ) 
19:57:06 <snowrichard> will post on your forum later I guess
19:57:26 <crc> ok
19:58:59 <Herkamire> : strcmp ( addr addr -- t/f ) >a dup b@ for dup b@ b@+ <> if false exit then 1+ next drop true ;
19:59:03 <Herkamire> something like that
19:59:07 <Herkamire> for byte-counted strings
20:00:01 <Herkamire> crc: congrats on the baby :)
20:00:05 <crc> Thanks Herkamire
20:00:22 <crc> I don't store the count with the string though; so that won't work for me :(
20:00:25 <Herkamire> oop. s/false/drop false/
20:00:46 <Herkamire> crc you want ( addr u addr2 u2 -- t/f ) ?
20:01:04 <crc> Basically yes
20:01:19 <Herkamire> you have an Address register?
20:01:37 <crc> Nope
20:01:37 <Herkamire> mmm... going to be longer then
20:02:10 <Herkamire> : strcmp ( addr u addr2 u2 ) >r swap
20:02:56 <Herkamire> : strcmp ( addr u addr2 u2 ) >r swap dup r> <>if 2drop drop false ; then -strcmp ;
20:03:59 <Herkamire> : -strcmp ( addr addr u -- t/f ) for over b@ over b@ <>if 2drop false ; then 1+ swap 1+ next 2drop true ;
20:08:15 <Herkamire> looks good to me
20:08:37 <crc> -1 constant false
20:08:37 <crc>  0 constant true
20:08:37 <crc> : strcmp rot drop repeat >r over c@ over c@ <>if r> drop 2drop false ;; then 1+ swap 1+ r> until 2drop true ;
20:08:40 <crc> :)
20:09:02 <crc> Assuming that both strings are the same length, this works :)
20:09:04 <Herkamire> found another bug in my counted string version... s/for/1+ for/ (checks the count and the string)
20:09:31 <crc> Hmm
20:09:37 <Herkamire> rot drop???
20:09:46 <Herkamire> you can't just ignore the other count
20:09:52 <Herkamire> the counts must be the same
20:09:53 <crc> sure I can :)
20:10:09 <Herkamire> "you can't" and "you" are not the same string
20:10:17 <crc> If one count is different; they won't match
20:10:28 <Herkamire> if you drop the count of the first, they will match with your algorithm
20:10:28 <crc> Hmm
20:11:29 <snowrichard> your find checks the lengths first doesn't it , same thing
20:12:29 <crc> I'd check the lengths first with a different word
20:13:03 <Herkamire> :)
20:13:56 <crc> Actually I'd drop the "rot drop" sequence and have the a word that could be used to build more "intelligent" string comparisions.
20:15:03 <Herkamire> "rot over" would work in place of ">r swap dup r>" in my version
20:15:19 <Herkamire> wait no... you'd still need a swap later
20:15:45 <Herkamire> drrrr.... another reason I don't use rot... it still get's me confused
20:16:19 <Herkamire> yeah, "rot over" would be fine
20:16:28 <Herkamire> do you have 3drop?
20:17:25 <crc> no
20:17:55 <snowrichard> : 3drop 2drop drop ;  
20:18:14 <crc> rot shifts the third element of the stack to TOS
20:18:37 <Herkamire> crc your until decrements the top of stack and loops if it's not yet zero?
20:18:40 <crc> : 3drop drop drop drop ;   <-- more efficient in retro8 and retro7.7
20:18:42 <crc> Yes
20:18:54 <Herkamire> wild
20:18:55 <crc> In retro8 I have for/next, but not in 7.x yet
20:20:49 <Herkamire> heh, I coded drop 2drop and 3drop in asm
20:21:17 <crc> My "drop" is a macro that inlines the assembly :)
20:22:00 <crc> : 2drop drop drop ;   same as -->   : 2drop [ $adad 2, ] ;
20:22:08 <Herkamire> mine too
20:22:32 <Herkamire> drop instruction is just one byte?
20:22:37 <crc> Yup
20:22:40 <Herkamire> :)
20:23:31 <Herkamire> wow, it's 8 on ppc
20:23:37 <Herkamire> (two instructions)
20:23:47 <TheBlueWizard> um...maybe it would be a bit more useful to code up two words: match and strcmp....strcmp use match, which would check to see if str1 is at the start of str2 (e.g. ABC match ABCDEFG)
20:23:54 <Herkamire> either that or it's one and dup is two
20:24:20 <TheBlueWizard> that way you can use match rather than strcmp for some routines...maximizing reusability
20:24:25 <snowrichard> The pentium assembly language is way more complicated than the old IBM mainframes I started on years ago.  There was a foldout pocket reference card for it 
20:26:35 <crc> I don't code for anything above a 386
20:27:31 <crc> swap is two bytes; dup is six bytes
20:27:46 <snowrichard> darn it getting cold in here again time to light the heater
20:27:50 <crc> :)
20:28:08 * crc is going to go to bed now; I have to be at work in about six hours
20:28:13 <snowrichard> bye
20:28:21 <crc> bye all
20:31:34 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
21:22:03 --- quit: cmeme ("Client terminated by server")
21:22:51 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth
22:00:57 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving")
22:15:04 <TheBlueWizard> bye all (going to bed)
22:15:47 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth
22:36:58 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:43:36 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-69-149-42-7.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
22:59:19 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed")
23:51:40 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth
23:51:50 <OrngeTide> hio
23:51:58 * OrngeTide just got his mac mini today. it's neato
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.01.24