00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.01.21 00:00:39 --- quit: aum () 00:01:50 --- part: zoly left #forth 00:40:57 --- join: yumehito (yumehito@giguz.turbo.nsk.su) joined #forth 00:59:15 --- quit: Obakeneko[away] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:48:59 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 02:24:26 --- quit: qFox (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:26 --- quit: rsync (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:26 --- quit: onetom (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:27 --- quit: Fractal (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:27 --- quit: cmeme (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:27 --- quit: skylan (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:27 --- quit: warpzero (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:27 --- quit: yumehito (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:27 --- quit: SeaForth (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:27 --- quit: saon (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:27 --- quit: Herkamire (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:28 --- quit: thinfu (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:24:52 --- join: thinfu (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: yumehito (yumehito@giguz.turbo.nsk.su) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: rsync (~pavel@CPE000c41aac435-CM00111ae4f4cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: onetom (~tom@fw.i-trade.hu) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: Fractal (jah@selling.kernels.to.linus.torvalds.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- join: skylan (~sjh@dialup-216-211-5-66.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 02:24:52 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o thinfu 02:36:02 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-85.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 03:23:14 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 04:37:00 --- join: samc_ (~sam@203-114-131-106.inspire.net.nz) joined #forth 05:44:14 --- join: zoly (~l@ppp-82-135-1-178.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 05:44:21 g'day 05:45:05 looks like most to all in jsforth seems to work 05:45:23 can start to think about the icing 06:37:29 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 07:18:12 what is a js forth theoretically capable of? graphics output? mouse input? (I know nothing about js) 07:34:39 i have interfaced whole javascript through the "eval" command 07:35:21 for example, to open an url in a new window, you'd do as javascript: open("http://url") 07:36:06 from jsforth, that could be done like, interactively: 07:36:23 : js 0 word count eval ; 07:36:39 js open("http://url") 07:37:10 (but the open command has been provided already by forth word url) 07:37:39 like: : foo s" http://server.domain" url ; 07:38:35 mouse selection events have been prepared for, but i intend to use them for clicking on a forth word, to get help, stack effect, description in a separate form box 07:39:05 it is meant as online training system, after all 07:39:58 could I say write a graphical puzzle game that's played with the mouse? beginners should get something more interesting than the usual forth tut stuff 07:44:01 i'm not sure about that yet. javascript is not my strong side, i only started coding in it a few days ago. can't really judge now what mouse events i can catch 07:44:15 but if it can be, jsforth can use it 08:12:45 speed is much less an issue than i was afraid of. 08:13:03 at least with firefox 08:13:30 i expected it to be in about the same speed class as bashforth 08:13:39 but it looks it is about 25 times faster 08:15:12 surprising 08:18:36 not bad indeed 08:19:01 consider that i have no experience at all optimizing javascript scripts 08:19:38 (was the first thing i ever did with javascript) 08:24:44 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 08:36:15 --- join: slava (~slava@24.43.80.135) joined #forth 08:40:09 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-147.nyc-tc03a.FCC.NET) joined #forth 08:53:19 --- quit: cmeme (Connection timed out) 09:00:40 hi tbw 09:00:45 hi slava 09:00:48 with a 09:03:35 hiya zoly 09:04:02 * TheBlueWizard grins re: zoly's careful spelling 09:25:30 --- quit: samc_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:48:43 there's quite a run on the new baby right now 09:48:51 (i told on c.l.f.) 09:49:35 watch the page access counter ... http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki/index.cgi?MostFrequentlyRequestedPages 10:14:32 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 10:14:50 Cell processor! 10:14:52 http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell1.html 10:45:47 Herkamire: what happened to the pages of your wiki ? 10:50:51 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 11:28:46 --- part: zoly left #forth 11:39:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 11:42:04 --- mode: thinfu set -o thinfu 11:42:21 madwork: what are the advantages of cell processing? 11:44:27 hmm 11:44:36 nevermind heh 11:45:03 its a cpu, a software unit, a concept, and ex cellent! 11:45:28 --- quit: SeaForth (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:47:27 Skim through the conclusion if you don't want to RTFA: http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell5.html 12:09:35 oh, thanks zoly, wiki fixed 12:09:49 someone broke the home page 12:12:11 madwork: said nevermind :P 12:12:24 i did in fact skim thru the conclusion after i asked the question anyways 12:12:35 sometimes i ask a question too soon 12:12:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thinfu 12:13:14 --- topic: set to 'Forth: A simple language for simplifying complex problems and then solving them.' by thinfu 12:13:45 --- topic: set to 'Forth: A simple language for simplyfing complex problems.' by thinfu 12:13:48 --- mode: thinfu set -o thinfu 12:13:49 anybody know goot webmail software? 12:13:57 s/goot/good/ 12:14:10 not i 12:15:41 thinfu, where's our Turtle Forth? Done yet? :P 12:15:58 heh 12:16:23 i think i assumed it was so trivial that you probably didn't want me to do it 12:17:01 hmm 12:17:03 actually no 12:17:09 i think i didn't feel like implementing LOGO 12:17:22 and i didn't figure out a forth syntax 12:17:33 You don't need to implement LOGO. 12:17:37 Just Turtle Graphics. 12:17:40 but figuring out the forth syntax for turtle would instantly create turtle 12:18:06 Take a look at what Blazin' Forth did. 12:18:19 is that online? 12:20:50 Yea, somewhere. I often refer to its documentation. 12:22:33 well show me some example turtle code 12:23:53 ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Compilers/native/misc/commodore64/blazinforth.doc 12:24:18 forward 100 right 120 forward 100 right 120 forward 100 12:24:43 120 RT 100 FD 120 RT 100 FD 120 RT 100 FD 12:25:14 ok so switched the numbers around to make it rpn 12:25:15 ok 12:26:57 Yep, no syntax required. 12:27:14 In fact, i think it's better suited to Forth syntax than to the original. 13:11:52 --- join: Sonarman (~snofs@adsl-66-124-255-180.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 13:25:01 yeah, I think forth would work great for turtle graphics 13:35:28 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:36:51 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:48:35 --- join: zoly (~l@ppp-82-135-1-178.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 14:11:21 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:27:07 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 14:39:36 --- join: onetom_ (~tom@fw.i-trade.hu) joined #forth 14:39:37 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:28:39 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 15:48:03 Hi all 16:26:10 hi crc 16:29:28 what's up? 16:30:50 * zoly does a scan of all items which are up 16:32:04 any particular color ? 16:32:35 ? 16:33:04 silver, maybe ? 16:33:16 there's a lid of the peanut jar which is up 16:33:22 color for what? 16:33:37 for items in state of "up" 16:33:48 ? 16:34:14 * crc shakes his head 16:34:24 How's JSForth doing? 16:34:25 that's what you get when an non-native engl. speaker takes your language literally 16:34:40 ok 16:34:45 what was yesterdays shape of it ? 16:35:00 happened a lot on it 16:35:14 * crc gets slightly confused... 16:35:38 compare it to the other version ... 16:35:50 made a big leap 16:36:52 Numbers work at last 16:37:14 there's much more working now 16:38:23 looks like it is quite getting there 16:38:34 Not too bad 16:38:49 the terminal is still not satisfying 16:39:35 does about 130,000 empry looks on my 1700 athlon 16:39:38 empty 16:39:49 that means, about 25 times the speed of bashforth 16:39:53 heh 16:39:53 using firefox 16:40:32 which i find very reasonable 16:40:36 what's the threading model? 16:40:44 token + itc 16:40:54 ``In fact several of the directives that can be used to print floating-point values in fixed-width fields were based quite directly on FORTRAN "edit descriptors" which are used in FORTRAN to read and columns of data arranged in fixed-width fields. However using Common Lisp as a FORTRAN replacement is beyond the scope of this book so I won't discuss those aspects of FORMAT.'' 16:40:58 primitives are tokens, non-primitives itc 16:41:37 why itc? 16:42:17 you can't really do dtc with javascript :) 16:42:19 makes more sense then dtc on variable-cellsize platform without jumps 16:42:27 ok 16:42:49 and for stc, access to javascript return stack is not available 16:44:54 help facility integrated 16:45:08 will bind it to mouse click on forth word 16:45:21 possibly on hover 16:45:28 Not on hover please 16:46:35 and was thinking about adding block support 16:46:49 solves a lot 16:47:12 example source, tools extensions, mass memory, and historical background :) 16:47:22 add blocks 16:47:28 * crc is a big fan of blocks 16:47:52 would really make sense for that system i think 16:48:19 even brodies "lets build an editor" would work with it 16:48:39 very good newbie experience 16:48:52 * crc wonders if he'd be able to port RED to it... 16:49:17 i do use some non-standard stuff internally 16:49:26 So do I :) 16:49:31 but more standard words build on top op them 16:49:50 so it will probably pretty generic 16:50:05 * crc has ported the oldest version of RED to Win32Forth, gForth, ThisForth, and some others 16:50:22 for example, internally i don't use "word" 16:50:29 for input line parsing 16:50:35 nor so i use find 16:51:07 i use words with different stack effect, and those are simpler as well 16:51:26 My find has a non-standard stack effect :) 16:51:32 " foo" find 16:51:51 If "foo" isn't in the dictionary, leave the addr/count on the stack, otherwise drop it 16:52:02 i cll it "search", to not conflict with the (provided) more standard search 16:52:12 The actual result is returned in the carry flag (used with ?if) 16:52:17 * slava doesn't like words that output different numbers of values depending on conditions 16:52:19 my search is ( a n -- xt | 0 ) 16:52:41 My find does return the XT if the word was found 16:52:50 but, xt is *not* code field address 16:53:09 It's not? 16:53:11 in the case of jsf, it is header count 16:53:16 hmm 16:53:18 pretty array index 16:53:24 can get anywhere i want with it 16:53:28 crc, the topic has a typo :) 16:53:39 Oh? 16:53:49 where? 16:53:56 simplyfing 16:53:57 symbliefiynk ? 16:54:02 --- topic: set to 'Forth: A simple language for solving complex problems' by crc 16:54:07 simplifying* 16:54:46 Now it's fixed :) 16:56:01 also, stream (which i use internally instead of word) works with a n 16:56:06 ( c -- a n ) 16:56:17 points into input buffer 16:56:28 no moving strings for just parsing 16:56:37 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4082712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 16:56:48 i can *still* move it when i need it somewhere else 16:57:06 and, i don't copy one parsed string over another 16:57:19 I have >PAD to move strings when I need to 16:57:38 move$ ( a1 n a2 -- ) 16:58:00 copies to a2, as with leading count byte at a2 16:58:11 ok 16:58:15 : >pad pad move$ ; 16:59:20 >pad returns the addr/count of the copied string 16:59:54 ah. ok. not mine. (i know it beforehand already, if i wanna keep it, i dup it 16:59:55 ) 17:00:02 :) 17:01:07 furthermore, my pictured number out doesn't use a buffer 17:01:16 works on stack only 17:01:37 *if* you use #> , that one will move to buffer 17:01:52 but #> type could be #>type 17:02:01 output all chars from stack 17:02:15 --- join: crc2 (~crc2@pool-70-20-194-120.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 17:02:33 #>type and #> type are functionally equivalent 17:02:45 but #>type is much cheaper 17:03:14 ?for emit next 17:03:17 :) 17:03:34 testing irc.f under retro8 ;) 17:04:12 I don't use #> 17:04:33 if I can parse for end of line, I can port RED to JSForth 17:04:46 0 stream or 0 word 17:04:53 word, as conventional 17:05:15 0 stream gives you the inout buffer 17:05:18 put 17:05:39 : foo 0 word type ; fails :( 17:05:49 word count type 17:06:04 without count, you would use stream 17:06:07 ok, that works 17:06:18 stream is cheaper than word 17:06:36 returns a n 17:07:18 i try not to use names of commonly known words with different stack effect 17:07:47 "word not found" is much easier to fix then "stack underflow" 17:09:27 can I manipulate HERE at all? 17:09:35 allot 17:09:59 dp is hidden 17:11:44 : dp! ( a -- ) here - allot ; 17:14:33 byte = cell in jsforth 17:14:48 grr 17:14:57 32 bits / mem increment 17:15:10 If I copy/paste each line in, it says "ok" but does nothing with the code :( 17:15:16 right 17:15:21 keyboard event 17:15:25 not mouse event ... 17:15:26 grr 17:16:08 "getSelection" i'd have to interface 17:16:21 i think 17:19:00 mouse event handler is present 17:19:05 but empty ... 17:19:24 almost empty 17:20:13 * zoly is not good with gui stuff 17:20:15 hmm 17:20:26 * crc seems to have killed the jsforth with his editor code 17:20:48 nice 17:20:53 Not nice 17:21:02 I had hoped it would work with few changes :( 17:21:20 Do you have a word like 'fill' ? 17:21:26 yes 17:21:32 good 17:21:40 a n c 17:21:41 What's wrong with this word: 17:21:41 -- 17:22:18 : i (line) >r 10 stream r> swap cmove ; 17:22:28 (Change the cmove to move$) 17:22:36 (line) i don't know 17:22:46 Returns the addr of the line in the block 17:22:48 0 i Hello 17:22:56 Would put "hello" in line 0 17:23:04 10 stream looking for line feed ? 17:23:08 yes 17:23:37 : i 17:24:01 rest look allright 17:25:02 where does your inout come from ? 17:25:06 input 17:25:12 The command line 17:25:20 ok 17:25:51 cmove is move 17:27:37 Ok, works now 17:27:46 Now I just need to code the "v" word 17:27:55 What are my options for loops? 17:28:07 * crc hasn't tested "d" or "x" either 17:28:10 for next do loop ?do loop do +loop 17:28:20 ?do +loop 17:28:46 i and j work in both for next and do loop 17:29:38 leave and ?leave as well 17:30:36 begin again begin while repeat begin until also available 17:30:46 It's working :) 17:30:53 great) 17:31:05 It doesn't have all the nice UI stuff I have in retro8, but I'll paste it here if you want to see it 17:31:13 ok. 17:31:16 here 50000 + constant blkbase 17:31:16 variable blk 17:31:16 : block 512 * offset + ; 17:31:16 : (block) blk @ block ; 17:31:16 : (line) 64 * (block) + ; 17:31:17 : s blk ! ; 17:31:18 : i (line) >r 10 stream r> swap cmove ; 17:31:21 : ia (line) + >r 10 parse r> swap cmove ; 17:31:24 i might put it in a block 17:31:24 : d (line) 64 32 fill ; 17:31:26 : x (block) 512 32 fill ; 17:31:28 : p blk @ 1- blk ! ; 17:31:30 : n blk @ 1+ blk ! ; 17:31:32 : v blk @ block 8 for dup 64 type cr 64 + next drop cr cr ; 17:31:34 Adding line numbers to output should be an easy mod of v 17:31:37 Note that my blocks are 8 lines long ;) 17:32:01 One minor correction to the above: the first line should be: 17:32:06 here 50000 + constant offset 17:32:36 here 50000 + constant offset 17:32:36 variable blk 17:32:36 : block 512 * offset + ; 17:32:36 : (block) blk @ block ; 17:32:36 : (line) 64 * (block) + ; 17:32:36 : s blk ! ; 17:32:38 : i (line) >r 0 stream r> swap move ; 17:32:40 : ia (line) + >r 0 parse r> swap move ; 17:32:42 : d (line) 64 32 fill ; 17:32:44 : x (block) 512 32 fill ; 17:32:46 : p blk @ 1- blk ! ; 17:32:48 : n blk @ 1+ blk ! ; 17:32:51 : v blk @ block 8 for dup 64 type cr 64 + next drop cr cr ; 17:32:54 That's the corrected code :) 17:33:31 thus now you've loaded your editor into your web browser 17:33:38 Yup 17:33:45 funny 17:34:01 you can open urls easily 17:34:20 s( http://host.domain) url 17:34:46 or from word: : foo s" http://server.domain" url ; 17:35:01 that way you can browse with your editor 17:35:13 when will jsforth be able to run the wiki-in-forth code? 17:35:27 i'm curious about that as well 17:35:53 one can do weird shit with it :) 17:36:07 red for jsforth is the slowest port yet... 17:36:50 I need to add interaction between red & my irc code 17:37:12 one thing i wasn't quite aware of before: 17:37:16 then coding & chatting could be totally seamless 17:37:28 the starting html page could contain forth source in an html comment 17:37:43 and, the include of js does not need to come from the same server .. 17:38:07 that's pretty viral ... 17:42:08 Yup 17:42:09 with a block editor, blocks would really be fun. to save, they could be formatted to a html page, which gets saved 17:42:26 but i don't know how to get disk files into jsforth 17:42:29 * crc adds RED to the wiki (See "RetroEditor" and the "ForthInJavaScript" pages) 17:42:39 probably also through a html file 17:43:08 in the worst case it is going to be a post and get from/to another server 17:43:23 hmm 17:43:25 but one wants to store stuff permanently 17:43:30 no matter where 17:43:36 as long as its the same blocks 17:43:42 Is there any way to add evaluation from a source other than the keyboard? 17:43:59 from a document 17:44:04 but that needs to be open 17:44:14 and, to a document to save it 17:45:12 i can open documents from jsforth already 17:45:25 no user interaction required 17:46:19 if the page has a name, i *should* be able to address it 17:46:38 and read/write strings from and to it 17:47:12 zoly: Make it so we can load the RetroEditor please :) 17:47:43 right. a 100 kbyte html form, with many blocks in there :) 17:48:59 :) 17:49:03 hmm 17:49:20 looks like i can't open local files through file:/ 17:49:20 My blockfiles are 21k each (42 blocks/file) 17:50:10 : o bl stream url ; 17:50:15 o http://..... 17:50:17 that works 17:50:25 but o file:/.... doesn't 17:51:08 --- join: aum (~aum@60.234.138.239) joined #forth 17:51:56 looks like it would need a local web server which is not nice 17:52:22 oops ?? 17:52:40 i tried to open http://file:/ 17:52:44 heh 17:52:48 that won't work ;) 17:52:49 and tuxedo.org opens ... 17:53:00 yes, it shouldn't 17:53:08 but who knows :) 17:56:33 ftp://localhost seems to work 18:02:32 ahh, the fun of writing an HTML forth glossary generator 18:03:21 --- quit: crc2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:03:32 so it reads in a text file containing a forth glossary? 18:03:36 and generates a nice html page? 18:03:45 sounds more of a webpage generator 18:03:48 feed it any textfile.. 18:03:51 yep, and spits out html, with several cross-referenced categories 18:04:11 well, the textfile has to obey certain formatting 18:04:20 yup 18:04:25 it'll prolly go off to disneyland if the text file isn't formatted right 18:05:22 :) 18:05:27 oooh disneyland! 18:05:48 hi thinfu 18:05:51 * thinfu sings "everyone wants to go to disneyland" 18:06:24 hi crc 18:07:02 www.freenet.org.nz/pic18forth/glossary.html 18:09:01 nice 18:09:18 thats actually how the retroforth helpsystem would look like sort of 18:09:27 well 18:09:30 : p -1 blk +! ; 18:09:33 the text file formatting that is 18:10:54 that's where i like python - took only 20 mins to hack up the gen script 18:11:18 btw, you factored out blk ! as s, but decline to use s in your code ? 18:12:20 : (block) blk @ block ; .... v blk @ block .... 18:12:43 blk @ not blk ! 18:12:50 : s blk ! ; 18:13:02 I don't factor as heavily as some people 18:13:08 s is "select block" 18:13:13 1 s | select block 1 18:13:22 1000 s | select block 1000 18:13:30 there's a good reason to have it :) 18:13:34 right, can't factor out ! or blk from s anymore 18:13:39 :) 18:14:05 I could do a word for that, but I don't have reason to at this point 18:16:30 : s blk ! does 2+ dup @ ! ; 18:16:40 ? 18:16:48 That wouldn't work 18:16:58 : (s) 1+ 1+ dup @ ! ; 18:17:04 : s blk ! does (s) ; 18:17:07 who said it was valid code?! :P 18:17:12 * crc smiles 18:17:20 your code is always interesting :) 18:17:28 i was trying to waste some of other ppl's brain processing power 18:17:40 heh 18:17:58 ah man 18:18:08 Porting ANS code to RF will do waste brain power 18:18:20 why would you do that? 18:18:37 To show that ANS is complex? 18:19:03 more 'fun' to port ANS code to BF 18:19:43 IMO, ANS should have defined a far more minimal core 18:19:43 "use lib/bf load" and then code the BF from within a Forth :) 18:20:19 why has such an abominable brain-mangling language like bf won such a cult following? 18:20:30 even if they had, I still wouldn't be following their standard... 18:20:49 aum, same reason as java, i guess 18:20:50 * aum contemplates 'object-oriented bf' 18:21:05 slava: roflmao, so true dude 18:21:06 slava: but you love java 18:21:24 i love the money it puts in my pocket 18:21:27 java is just pascal updated for the 1990s/2000s 18:21:31 slava doesn't like java 18:21:34 aum, minimalists 18:21:41 (bf) 18:21:43 aum: thats totally true 18:21:55 java is the pascal for the 2000s.. totally true.. 18:21:56 bf is too minimal to be useful for real work IMO 18:22:13 and masochists 18:22:23 i was forced to learn pascal at college - hated every minute - dropped out of college, learned forth and c, got a good job instantly 18:22:47 pity the poor fucks learning CS now, having to learn java 18:22:57 you learned a toy language at college? 18:23:04 bf is perfect to explain assembly to somebody who doesn't know about what happens in cpus 18:23:04 oh wait, nevermind :P 18:23:05 not much choice 18:23:40 zoly: how so 18:23:50 imho, CS101 syllabus should be: 1) pick a CPU and write a working Forth, 2) learn python, 3) learn C 18:23:57 and has no real concept of differences between "hi level" and "low level" languag 18:24:30 you show him how to 2* and ask him to come up with 2/ 18:24:35 aum: yeah i'll put my vote behind that 18:24:44 then he know the diff between asm and hilevel lang :) 18:24:47 * crc dislikes Python 18:24:54 python or lisp 18:25:00 same thing really 18:25:01 :P 18:25:01 eh? python rules 18:25:01 LISP 1.5 is nice 18:25:12 Not for me it doesn't 18:25:16 when you can say that assmebly is much simpler to write than bf, 18:25:17 i wrote a forth in python, allowing forth words to access python objects 18:25:20 they're happy 18:25:33 thinfu, there's a huge difference between python and lisp 18:25:46 lisp & python are CS academic languages.. mostly CS grads are the ones that know those langs 18:25:49 slava: i know 18:25:50 for one, python code is readable 18:25:54 even cl looks nice frm the bit I've seen 18:25:57 aum: not really 18:26:03 aum: I find forth more readable 18:26:25 c/python/java = not readable 18:26:27 i'm not a CS grad and I know both 18:26:28 :P 18:26:29 depends on the forth 18:26:33 slava: you're a freak 18:26:39 retroforth :) 18:26:48 and java's problem is not lack of readability 18:27:00 depends on the forth coder too - some coders love cooking up deep arcane mystical heiroglyphs 18:27:02 retroforth, its ret on! 18:27:09 and its retrooo 18:27:14 retrue 18:27:17 retru 18:27:18 first lang i learned was apl 18:27:23 zoly: sweet 18:27:28 (talking bout hyroglyphs) 18:27:40 talking of retro - see that /. article about a guy who converted a rotary dial phone to a cellphone 18:28:20 * crc is still contemplating how to put together retrospect... 18:28:29 5 4 rho iota 20 18:28:44 my keyboard is too limited for that 18:29:09 k is a modern ascii apl 18:29:15 crc, yeah i'll have to get my say in on retrospect ;) 18:29:26 i loved the functions where you combine keys, by pressing the alternate backspace first :) 18:29:42 ok zoly, you're scaring me 18:30:00 like the upright hollow box with the vertical bar 18:30:13 zoly: this isn't #apl ... :) 18:30:42 it still was reasonably readable, because it was so short 18:31:05 readability suffers if you need many pages of source to express a programming concept 18:31:08 crc, maybe it is and we don't know it! ;) 18:31:13 hmm 18:31:29 back in the old days i used to hang out on #phreak and talk about computers and hacking 18:31:30 * crc glances at the channel name. It's definitly #forth 18:31:41 and then when someone came into the channel and tried to talk about phreaking 18:31:47 many functions had a nmae of just one character 18:31:54 name 18:31:56 i'd be like "what? is this channel's name #phreak? are we talking about phreaking? no!" 18:32:23 pretty amusing for a 15 year old 18:32:34 s/for/to 18:32:46 * zoly never wrote a forth in apl 18:32:54 good night 18:33:07 slava: really? 18:33:13 --- quit: slava ("Leaving") 18:33:17 wouldn't even know now how to do that 18:33:29 quite some while ago 18:33:54 k looks interesting 18:33:57 i've heard good things about apl 18:33:59 didn't even know forth then 18:34:12 apl is sort of like forth in that its a different paradigm 18:34:19 and very compact 18:34:24 source is 18:34:34 yeah thats what i mean 18:34:43 memory use isn't 18:39:47 when i picked up forth, i started to write apl functions with it 18:40:23 could do a good part of apl with it 18:40:28 unluckily lost it 18:41:50 i mentioned chuck eaker earlier here .. iirc, it was a forth he's written i was using for that 18:42:17 what apl functions did you write for it 18:43:06 n dimensional skalar stuff, basic arithmetics on any of them, rotation, logic. 18:43:15 filling 18:43:19 mirroring 18:43:27 well, the load 18:43:37 but not the program sequncer 18:44:43 "programming lang of the future with techniques of the past" 18:44:56 well, it was superior to basic then 18:45:04 heh 18:45:06 10 ... 20 ... 30 . 18:45:17 10.1 ... 10.2 10.3 18:45:25 10.1.1 ... 10.1.2 ..10.1.3 .. 18:45:58 (well, you had labels as well) 18:46:13 and a powerful control flow statement 18:46:23 -> 18:46:27 i think it was 18:46:49 the ... tataaaa .. 18:46:52 goto 18:48:57 >r 18:52:56 gotos are ok 18:53:13 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@63.250.25.107) joined #forth 18:54:56 goodnight 18:55:40 bye crc...wait! 18:55:48 wait? 18:55:55 You have three minutes... 18:55:58 I looked at your irc.f and I have some questions.... 18:55:59 he wants to give you your good night kiss 18:56:05 or not 18:56:05 ask. 18:56:06 ha ha 18:56:22 * crc smites thinfu with complexity 18:56:24 ok...what are those syscalls (three of them)? 18:57:03 In irc_recieve, we call SYS_READ 18:57:17 In irc_send, we call SYS_WRITE 18:57:27 And in poll we call SYS_POLL 18:57:46 tcpclient gives us descriptors for the network, so we use those 18:57:54 ah ok thx....good night then :) 18:57:58 goodnight 18:58:13 (Thin knows a good deal about the irc client too; he's the original author of it...) 18:58:18 : foo 0 0 [ here dup cell- ! ] for 1+ next ; : bar 12 5 foo >r . ; ( 12 5 0 12 5 0 12 5 0 12 5 0 12 5 0 12 5 0 12 5 0 12 5 0 ..... ) 18:59:15 --- part: thinfu left #forth 19:00:34 i know what the problem is 19:01:16 two problems, even 19:01:30 retry ... 19:02:06 3 19:02:31 two 19:09:29 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 19:16:32 --- join: Sonarman (~snofs@adsl-64-171-255-121.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 19:21:48 Sonarman: teh hies pretty one. 19:22:57 zoly: I fixed the wiki. thanks for letting me know 19:23:07 I rarely go to the homepage 19:24:14 hi 19:32:06 --- quit: arke ("Lost terminal") 19:34:22 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 19:55:29 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 19:55:46 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 19:56:01 --- quit: cmeme (Remote closed the connection) 19:56:45 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 20:24:40 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 20:27:58 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-69-149-42-7.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 21:19:13 --- quit: madgarden () 21:19:25 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4082712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 21:31:25 --- join: samc (~sam@203-114-131-65.inspire.net.nz) joined #forth 22:05:26 who also thinks the shuttle images on forth.com home page are not very good promo for forth? 22:05:27 --- quit: zoly (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:05:56 well, the shuttles aren't exactly the epitome of elegance 22:15:04 --- quit: SeaForth ("Leaving") 22:33:13 --- quit: aum () 23:16:39 --- join: I440r (laptop@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 23:17:06 --- part: samc left #forth 23:34:28 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.01.21