00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.01.17 00:21:45 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 00:33:18 hi 00:36:02 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 01:07:21 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 01:16:26 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 01:59:15 --- quit: saon (Remote closed the connection) 02:33:43 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 03:02:58 --- join: aum (~aum@60.234.138.239) joined #forth 04:48:51 --- quit: SeaForth (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:58:46 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 05:12:41 --- join: samc (~sam@203-114-131-29.inspire.net.nz) joined #forth 05:14:31 --- quit: aum () 06:01:00 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-220-253-71-2.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 06:06:16 --- join: Purdu3 (~Purdu3@12-222-128-22.client.insightBB.com) joined #forth 07:05:32 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:14:05 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:49:14 --- join: I440r_ (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 07:50:00 --- quit: I440r_ (Client Quit) 08:08:44 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 08:17:35 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:49:06 --- quit: ianp ("Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?") 08:51:47 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:53:45 --- quit: tathi (Client Quit) 09:11:32 --- join: I440r_ (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 09:23:19 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-69-155-177-153.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:32:39 --- quit: samc () 09:43:32 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:48:09 --- join: fridge_ (~Jim@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 09:48:22 --- quit: fridge_ (Connection reset by peer) 09:58:57 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:08:49 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 10:13:34 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-69-149-61-49.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 10:14:20 --- quit: raystm22 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 10:49:35 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 11:10:32 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:29:49 --- quit: Purdu3 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:52:41 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-011.nyc-tc03a.fcc.net) joined #forth 12:01:32 --- join: Purdu3 (YNIX@12-222-128-22.client.insightBB.com) joined #forth 12:17:09 --- join: Sonarman (~snofs@ppp-66-124-255-60.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 12:38:56 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:00:44 --- quit: I440r_ ("Leaving") 13:30:43 --- join: jreaver (jreaver@dsl-80-42-24-57.access.uk.tiscali.com) joined #forth 13:31:20 --- part: jreaver left #forth 13:35:56 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@dsl027-163-201.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 13:36:05 --- quit: Purdu3 (Remote closed the connection) 13:57:04 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:07:15 --- join: Sonarman (~snofs@adsl-64-160-166-237.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 14:12:24 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-69-149-61-49.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:15:15 --- join: aum (~aum@60.234.138.239) joined #forth 14:18:24 the number of forth standards is greater or equal to the number of existing forth implementations 14:18:41 eh? 14:18:58 what do you mean standard? 14:19:26 'standard forth' is like 'military intelligence', or 'celibate fucking' - it's an oxymoron 14:21:06 * aum wonders if there is a naming convention for 'logical and/or/xor' words 14:21:22 C has '&' - bitwise AND, versus '&&' - logical AND 14:21:49 but forth conventions only seem to provide bitwise and/or/xor 14:23:07 : && 0<> swap 0<> and ; 14:24:30 I've never really needed the logical ones 14:25:44 maybe take a page from some semimajor language whose name escapes me at the moment....try this: 14:26:07 seems to me they're mainly useful in most languages because they're short-circuit logic 14:26:10 : and-if 0<> swap 0<> and ; 14:26:29 : or-else 0= swap 0= or ; 14:26:51 :) or-else 14:26:56 I like that :) 14:27:19 * TheBlueWizard tries to remember the name of the language that uses these "and if" and "or else".... 14:27:25 thanks 14:31:48 I've been pretty happy writing in my own short-circuit logic 14:32:46 it ocationally gets verbose, but not much 14:33:19 actually, the and-log case could be reduced to : and-log 0<> and ; 14:34:16 and or-log could use standard bitwise or 14:35:07 I don't think logical versions are very useful 14:35:16 AND: cond if cond if ... then then 14:35:31 OR: cond if foo then cond2 if foo then 14:35:42 yuck! 14:35:47 OR: cond if foo exit then cond2 if foo then 14:40:35 : *str++ ( addr u ) over @ dup if rot 1+ rot 1- rot true else 2drop drop then ; 14:41:12 or 14:41:46 yuck! 14:41:48 what's it do? 14:42:28 * TheBlueWizard now remembers! It is Ada! Actually it is "and then" and "or else" 14:42:29 given a string 'addr u', tests current char, if char is null terminator, drops addr and u and returns false, if not, returns char and true 14:43:29 ok 14:43:32 I don't see the false 14:43:40 i forgot the false 14:43:45 ok 14:43:54 hmm, need a vers which doesn't need null terminator, but uses u instread 14:44:33 I don't see why you would ever have a null terminator and a count 14:44:34 : *str++ ( addr u ) dup 0= if 2drop else over @ >r 1- swap 1+ swap r> then ; 14:44:54 correct - if a string is in 'addr u' format, no need for null terminator 14:45:01 i think that last one is wrong 14:45:13 * Herkamire tries to fathom why you would use such a word 14:45:54 : foo ( addr u -- ) for dup c@ bar 1+ next drop ; 14:45:59 : *str++ ( addr u -- addr u ch true | false ) dup 0= if 2drop else over @ >r 1- swap 1+ swap r> true then ; 14:46:16 --- quit: tathi ("booting herkforth") 14:46:24 i don't have 'for' yet 14:46:26 or, if you have an Address register: 14:48:20 hmm, using locals: : *str++ { addr u xt } begin u while addr @ xt execute addr 1+ to addr u 1- to u repeat ; 14:50:13 well, write FOR 14:50:24 guess i should 14:50:36 pretty easy 14:50:47 does 'for' stick its var on retstack or leave it on datstack? 14:50:48 you just stick the count on the rstack. 14:51:08 so to bail one needs 'unloop exit' 14:51:09 at the end you decrement it, and if it's not zero yet, branch back to the begining 14:51:15 yes 14:51:19 k 14:51:37 and 'i' retrieves count? 14:51:38 hmmm... 14:51:42 like 'r@' ? 14:52:02 just dawned on me that "unloop exit" would be a nice thing to have a word for... possibly maknig it so you don't need unloop by it's self 14:52:17 sure... but the count is sorta annoying 14:52:30 because it goes down and is never zero 14:52:42 true 14:53:12 if someone wants accurate count, they can always do a begin/while/repeat 14:53:19 or do..loop 14:53:20 I've been using FOR quite happily without a count for quite a long time 14:53:32 what do you do when you need the index var? 14:53:41 I don't 14:54:30 I've ocationally kept a count on the stack 14:54:56 eg: : alphabet 97 26 for dup emit 1+ next drop ; 14:55:19 ah, ok 14:55:42 --- join: Sonarman_ (~snofs@adsl-64-171-254-114.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 14:55:50 short: : alphabet 123 97 do i emit loop ; 14:56:00 it's extra garbage 14:56:03 but it's faster :) 14:56:23 and it doesn't happen much anyway 14:56:51 if you want to be able to use I or the like, you just have to store the original count on the rstack as well 14:57:07 subtrackt r@ from the original count and you get a normal count (0..x) 14:57:48 do you have do/loop implemented? 14:58:17 not yet 14:58:30 only uncounted loops so far 14:58:58 ahh 14:59:19 do FOR before you bother with do/loop 14:59:40 i think so 14:59:52 but first i gotta do '>r', 'r>' and 'r@' 14:59:55 --- quit: Sonarman (Nick collision from services.) 14:59:58 --- nick: Sonarman_ -> Sonarman 15:01:18 aum: yeah, those are good words 15:01:55 thanks to pic18f 'magic pointer registers', those at least are easy 15:02:15 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 15:03:18 only problem is that locals and '>r/r>/r@' cannot coexist 15:04:18 i've got an efficient locals implementation that i don't want to let go of 15:04:32 --- quit: froop () 15:22:17 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 15:22:36 Forth: a standard to flexible to follow a single language :) 15:25:48 --- join: froop (~wossname@rn-v1w5a06.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 15:28:28 it's harder to find a language where the compiler is easier to write than forth 15:32:39 hmm, '10 for' iterates 11 times 15:34:11 which forth? 15:34:23 gforth 15:34:25 aum: not in my forth it doesn't 15:34:38 that may be in the ans standard (not sure) but it's just plain stupid 15:34:49 its counter-intuitive 15:35:03 Herkamire, how fast does your mandelbrot renderer run? 15:35:11 the ans spec is /never/ stupid <8)++++< 15:36:37 slava: the one in herkforth is Very slow 15:37:35 about 12 secconds 15:37:42 fullscreen 15:37:45 no optomizations 15:38:37 oh crap, gotta go 16:25:07 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 17:12:42 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 17:44:20 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4082712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 17:44:24 hi madgarden 18:08:59 --- quit: aum (Remote closed the connection) 18:38:22 --- quit: [Forth] ("abort" Reality Strikes Again"") 19:46:18 --- quit: slava ("Leaving") 19:46:34 --- quit: madgarden ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 22:00:36 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@dsl027-163-201.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 22:24:16 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 23:00:41 --- join: randolm (~wossname@rn-v1w5a06.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 23:01:49 --- quit: froop (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:02:22 --- nick: randolm -> froop 23:06:00 anyone here know the whereabouts of one Daniel Engeler, the creator of a OSX Forth system called "D" 23:22:12 SeaForth: hmm... site seems to be down 23:25:49 Herkamire, yes it does :( Whatever ever happend to ficl? 23:26:08 I heard just now that it compiles, but not ports well. I'm curious, did ficl ever take off? 23:26:45 Herkamire, I sent Daniel an email, we'll see if it bounces. 23:26:46 I don't know anything about ficl 23:26:50 was that the cmdline thing? 23:27:17 seems ficl is a embeddable thing, ANSI C. 23:27:35 I unpacked and did make -f Makefile.linux on my OSX system, and it compiled/linked fine. 23:27:41 I have yet to try it, going to that window now. 23:28:09 * SeaForth notes he is having a ton of fun making geometry teaching tools for his GF's kids. 23:28:29 * SeaForth just finished a polygon side/nomenclature tool, all written in SeaFORTH :) 23:28:39 nice :) 23:31:08 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.01.17