00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.01.10 00:15:13 --- join: fridge (~Jim@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 00:54:57 --- quit: fridge ("Leaving") 01:12:20 --- quit: Testament (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:13:15 --- join: Testament (CapStone@cs24160141-160.satx.rr.com) joined #forth 01:13:59 --- quit: p-Imperator (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:35:02 --- join: aum (~aum@60.234.138.239) joined #forth 02:01:54 --- join: Topaz (jonny@wlan-137.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 02:19:52 I'm sitting here, with a 'super computer' in front of me, whatever that Marketing jibberish from SJ and Apple means. HOwever, the MPC7457 CPU in t his machine does have the Altivec instruction set which is a highly parellel pipelined instruction set available. I"m thinking to myself, hmmmmmm, all this cool technology to execute up to say 16 instructions per cycle, and how to use it with a FORTH implementation. Or how to have it in 02:19:52 corporated via some words that could be loaded as extensions to a basic FORTH 02:20:31 I guess I'm curious if anyone here has done work with the MMX or other x86 enhancements in the P4 or the AMD64 chipsets, and if so is it worth the time to work towards understanding the instructions and offering words for such operations? 02:25:28 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.133) joined #forth 02:48:32 a bit bigger than what i'm working on 02:48:47 * aum has just built a forth vm and core primitives for PIC18F micros 02:56:25 :) well, I figured that since the 7457 is a fairly low core-voltage user (1-1.3v) and is likely to be used embedded in some system somewhere, may as well at look at using the power of the CPU. 02:56:39 I know most folks here do PIC Forth programming, that is expected. 02:57:17 I just like the notion of PPC (my fav CPU for whatever reason, hard to explain, just like RISC I guess) and highly parallel is nice... 02:57:50 i think that's a clean and ellegant cpu 02:58:26 the weird thing is that the more I look at the syntax of the ASM of the altivec it reminds me more of a CISC than a RISC simply due to the large volume of commands they have for vector math. 02:59:34 about 180 instructions just in the vector math instruction set. 02:59:52 well, it is a dedicated instruction set 02:59:55 so it's expected 03:00:34 RISC comed first with the idea that a general purpose compiler will use just a limited and general number of instructions 03:00:48 but vector math it's not generic 03:01:30 yah, in some way RISC is suited well for FORTH 03:01:57 FORTH is based on a limited core primative set, much like RISC, and the rest of the garbage (compiler in this case) is just a bunch more 'words' using the core stuff. 03:03:58 its interesting, the altivec instruction set reminds me in a lot of ways of VaxMACRO, but maybe I'm simply forgetting how ugly VMacro was to use, the ultimate CISC ASM that I recall ever looking at 03:04:13 :) 03:04:33 vector math is not the same as generic computing 03:04:47 is there a standard forth syntax for double-size int literals? 03:04:49 programmers are used to write implementations of vector math in generic languages 03:05:10 so it's nothing hard for them to use asm instructions for this 03:05:32 that's why vector math has so many instructions 03:06:59 (at least that's whay i belive) 03:07:03 *what 03:08:32 --- quit: Topaz (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:18:42 --- join: Topaz (jonny@wlan-137.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 03:28:31 as goes 3dup and other more complicated words, so goes vector math ASM for specific tasks. 03:38:26 --- join: Serg_penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 03:38:48 hi ! 03:45:04 hi 03:48:50 yo 03:53:25 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:53:38 bbls, http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=018rH3bTdGmKqW5Nf2hG12 shows 162 new instructions, 4 general categories of said instructions 04:00:27 hmm 04:00:41 is the vector math part of the cpu larger than the generic part? :) 04:09:32 --- quit: SeaForth ("Leaving") 04:09:49 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:40:36 --- join: SamC_ (~sam@203-114-131-216.inspire.net.nz) joined #forth 05:15:39 --- join: yumehito (yumehito@giguz.turbo.nsk.su) joined #forth 05:18:06 --- quit: aum () 05:23:08 --- quit: Obakeneko[away] (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:56:29 --- nick: SeaForth -> SeaForth4OSX 05:56:45 --- nick: SeaForth4OSX -> SeaForth-A4th4-O 05:56:47 SeaForth, cool, url? 05:57:28 or rather SeaForth-A4th4-O 05:58:00 --- nick: SeaForth-A4th4-O -> SeaForthA4th4OSX 05:58:50 http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/N57ATT11.html 05:59:06 http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/VqCHLh50.html 05:59:32 the first is the Sensetalk based SeaForth, you can get SenseTalk Beta from doug@thoughtful.com and the manual is the second link. 06:00:31 what is SenseTalk? 06:01:40 www.sensetalk.com 06:02:38 sensetalk in summary is a superset of xTalk, or HyperTalk, that which was written for HyperCard in the old days. 06:02:47 Sensetalk has been around and in some incarnation since 1989. 06:03:39 It was the core language of HyperCube/HyperSense a NeXTStep/OpenStep scripting system, RAD tool and much much more. It is now the core language of Eggplant, www.redstonesoftware.com, and is also been spun off and is now a full fledge scripting language you can use in the CLI of OSX. 06:04:02 Its very fast, super easy to learn, and does things you would expect of any serious programming language. 06:04:44 --- nick: SeaForthA4th4OSX -> SeaFORTH 06:10:23 --- join: SamC__ (~sam@203-114-131-76.inspire.net.nz) joined #forth 06:11:55 from what I remember of hypertalk its syntax was annoyingly inconsistent, is sensetalk cleaner 06:14:06 SeaFORTH, what are your aims in writing SeaForth? 06:16:58 oh sorry, you say in the manual 06:22:19 SamC_ I'm not sure about the consistancy other than SenseTalk is as I recall (at least in the HyperSense product) 100% backwards compatible with HyperTalk. As xTalk languages go, it is what it is. You may want to read the manual for the language, I personally enjoy coding in it... You can do quite a bit with it, just look at the 'FORTH' that is SeaFORTH. Who would have thought a forth attempt could be written in xTalk. 06:23:43 --- quit: SamC_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:45:30 --- quit: bbls (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:04:50 --- quit: SamC__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:09:09 --- join: Serg_penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 07:29:01 --- quit: Serg_penguin () 07:32:38 --- quit: Topaz (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:33:31 --- join: Topaz (jonny@wlan-137.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 08:17:02 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:48:34 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 08:53:04 --- join: madwork_ (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 08:55:17 SeaFORTH? 09:06:51 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 09:14:07 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 09:18:26 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-88.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 09:32:27 Hi. 09:34:31 hi 09:35:35 teh hies robtrobzor 09:35:36 err 09:35:38 madwork 09:35:40 * arke sigh 09:35:49 arke, hi qFox 09:36:00 I440r: hey dude, alive? 09:36:27 That sounds like a surfer energy drink... "Dude Alive". 09:38:41 DudeAlive -- now with 10% more Dude. 09:39:12 --- join: T0paz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 09:40:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 09:41:58 DudeAlive -- now with 10% more Dude! Buy now, and get a change to win 10 free boxes of Oreos! 09:44:35 where is Robtrob? 09:44:44 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09:45:06 know not I 09:45:43 "Stack Underflow" 09:45:50 I not know. 09:46:10 --- nick: T0paz -> Topaz 09:46:14 correct syntax it is 09:46:20 Topaz hello 09:47:22 Robtrob whereabouts I know not 09:48:33 defer I work return 09:51:21 yo 09:53:42 HELLO 10:01:05 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 10:04:23 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.133) joined #forth 10:13:53 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 10:14:23 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-88.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 10:19:24 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 10:34:27 anyone know anything about the backend of sms (textmessages on cellphones)? 10:36:11 i don't know anything.. :) 10:37:02 i suppose that they are plain data-over-voice communications 10:37:42 you send bits as sound and the destination interprets them as SMS 10:37:59 what about international sms? are they in fact short long distance calls? 10:38:23 all calls are short distance (to local antenna) 10:38:36 but the backend sending? 10:38:51 if i'd make a call to the USA it'd be a longdistance call ;) 10:38:53 i suppose they might use specialised data networks 10:39:05 but an sms to the states would still cost me the same as one local would cost me 10:39:23 well i doubt this 10:39:35 if your phone is closed 10:39:41 will you receive SMS's? 10:39:44 how else could sites like sms.ac possibly survive? 10:39:48 yes 10:40:02 then they are stored on company's servers i suppose 10:40:11 if your phone is off while someone sends you an sms, you'll receive it later, when you turn it back on and it reports in... 10:40:32 ok, it reports that you missed some calls, but will it show the message? 10:40:45 quite the opposite 10:40:52 it wont report missing calls, but it will receive sms 10:41:07 well, except if you use your voicemail obviously 10:41:13 sure it reports missing calls 10:41:16 (i for one dont) 10:41:21 it reports the number 10:41:35 your phone cant report a number it has never seen calling you 10:41:38 even if there was no message left in voice main 10:41:41 when your phone is off, its off. 10:42:06 then i suppose that the company stores missed calls numbers on their servers 10:42:14 same with SMS and voicemail 10:42:18 but if i close my phone 10:42:29 i can sell all numbers that called me when i was off 10:42:34 even with voicemail disabled 10:42:55 *see 10:43:52 closed, i am talking about OFF 10:43:54 deactivated 10:43:57 not working 10:44:03 sure, that's what i'm talking about 10:44:07 ... 10:44:09 completelly OFF 10:44:16 (even with no accumulator plugged) 10:44:29 when i go on, i will get the list of numbers that called me while i was off 10:44:32 if your phone is off, it wont report missed calls because all calls receive the "destination unreachable" message. 10:44:41 "this cellphone might be turned off" 10:45:09 yes, but i suppose that the telephone server will filter that and store this info on their servers 10:45:15 if at any point you still receive your messages, its a provider service, i guess. like some report how many voicemails you have 10:45:28 i dont know anything about that yet 10:45:39 but i'm only interested in the sms part of that story 11:02:06 --- join: p-Imperator (CapStone@cs24160141-160.satx.rr.com) joined #forth 11:07:16 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11:19:36 --- quit: Testament (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:25:13 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:27:26 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 11:27:48 --- quit: qFox (Client Quit) 11:35:28 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 11:47:40 --- quit: bbls () 12:04:07 --- quit: SeaFORTH (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:05:44 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 13:05:52 --- join: Topaz (~top@sown-88.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 13:06:07 teh hies 13:12:29 --- join: SeaForth (~SeaForth@c-24-1-126-202.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:14:12 anyone here done any OO-like FORTH development, either as a programmer on an OO-Forth system or actually implementing such? I'm curious as to the pitfalls and problems generally encountered when bridging from a TIL to an OO language as well as the runtime system of a late-binding OO system like Smalltalk/ObjC. 13:18:16 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@63.250.24.40) joined #forth 13:20:40 SeaForth, can't help you there. I have a question though... where does "SeaForth" come from? 13:25:15 --- join: T0paz (~top@sown-87.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 13:25:46 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13:30:37 wait, didnt ............. somebody was working on a ooforth... 13:31:00 or was that factor? 13:31:02 i forgot 13:31:23 i think you're thinking about factor ;) 13:31:33 Robert is creating a Forth operating system based on OOP 13:31:43 oh psh robert is always creating forths :p 13:31:50 he's got more forths then ansi has words ;) 13:32:02 ;) 13:32:18 gah, now why is that topic -t :( 13:32:39 some ppl need to get off that fucking powertrip already. its been taking long enough already 13:33:05 whatever.. 13:34:42 madwork_, good question. I'm originally from Seattle. 13:36:04 Also, Sensetalk has with it a shell/editor that is called SeaShell (yes, I know it is cutzie), and I thought SeaFORTH would be a neat play on the fact I'm originally from Seattle, that Sensetalk has a shell called SeaShell, and that forths often have a letter/s in front of 'forth', and sea would be like the letter 'c' but more. 13:37:27 That's cool. It's also a funny coincedence, since I have a project here at work called Seaforth, which is the name of a small town in the area, but also alludes to the fact that the project uses a Forth scripting system that I wrote in C. :) 13:37:41 :) 13:40:51 hahaha 13:41:01 oh well, sorry to bust ya bubble. 13:41:08 I'm sorry there is a name conflict. 13:41:17 where do you live? 13:41:38 good thing we have name spaces called international copyright law and trademark rules. :) 13:46:21 haha 13:48:10 It's quite alright, it's an internal name. ;) We're in Canada anyway, but US owned. 13:48:16 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:59:45 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 14:09:12 --- join: }Topaz{ (~top@sown-88.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 14:10:30 --- quit: T0paz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 14:52:13 --- join: crc (~crc@pool-68-238-180-189.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 14:52:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 15:22:27 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 15:40:08 --- quit: }Topaz{ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:47:11 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 15:55:34 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 16:54:42 --- quit: mark4 ("Leaving") 16:58:29 --- join: sk1p (alex@pD95D3C66.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 17:02:30 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 17:12:05 madwork_, maybe I can come to work for you folks :) 17:12:10 * SeaForth needs to find work. 17:12:14 desperately. 17:26:58 --- quit: sk1p (Connection timed out) 17:31:28 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 17:54:24 how portable is factor? and has it been ported to OSX 17:55:50 slava could answer that best i'd think 17:55:58 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 17:57:43 goodnight 17:57:46 so the 'native' directory is the portable C portion. 17:57:48 night crc 19:00:52 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-69-149-51-211.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 19:04:33 --- join: raystm22 (~color4th@adsl-69-149-51-211.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 19:59:31 now reading the PDF for Factor 20:00:04 took a while, had to install TeX for OSX, and a bunch of supporting software, and a nice viewer too which makes the process of editing and viewing the results pretty simple. 20:14:56 I think the following is going to be the 'tag line' for SeaForth... 20:15:16 "Determining the degree to which attractive delusions can operate as a substitute for confirmation by evidence." 22:13:41 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.01.10