00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.12.22 00:23:56 --- quit: Sonarman ("Lost terminal") 02:02:07 --- join: Frek (105-ident-@h229n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 02:03:32 Hej 04:42:04 --- log: started forth/04.12.22 04:42:04 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 04:42:04 --- topic: 'SIB. Small Is Beautiful.' 04:42:04 --- topic: set by thinfu on [Sun Dec 19 17:10:12 2004] 04:42:04 --- names: list (clog yasam raystm22 Raystm2 bbls Frek madgarden saon|sleep Teratogen yumehito ianp hrmpf I440r robert warpzero Fractal cmeme skylan holden @crc) 04:57:20 --- quit: bbls (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:46:51 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.133) joined #forth 06:46:27 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 06:53:18 --- quit: raystm22 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 07:54:47 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 08:31:31 --- quit: saon|sleep ("Lost terminal") 08:31:40 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:39:05 --- join: Astrobe (~astrobe@ARouen-106-2-2-82.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 08:50:27 Hi 08:50:34 hi 08:50:38 you are always here? :) 08:50:43 Indeed 08:50:51 Sorry, last time you left before I got a chance to reply, Astrobe. 08:51:06 And now I don't remember your question 08:54:28 robert has biointegrated irc, one eye is normal, the other has xchat. with pseudo-tranparency to allow for depth perception of course 08:54:51 :)) 08:55:24 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 08:55:40 It's pretty bad when the three most frequent questions you get are "are you a bot?", "are you ALWAYS here?" and "who the hell does THAT?" 08:55:50 np, robert. I was wondering if you did make-up your mind about the kind of jump you wanted? 08:56:13 Ah... I don't think I got that question. What do you mean? 08:56:17 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:57:04 Last time, we've discussed a bit about jump on flags vs classic jumps. 08:57:22 robert, sorry i didn't wanted to offend you :( 08:58:26 bbls: Oh, don't worry. :) 08:58:46 You mean conditional jumps? 08:59:02 robert: yes 09:03:27 robert ? 09:07:28 ROBERT ! 09:14:46 Sorry 09:14:53 Uhm, what about them? 09:15:02 Had to run away and defend myself. 09:17:06 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-235-65.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 09:21:10 robert: you were wondering: " should I use machineForth IF or some other variant?" 09:36:38 Ah! 09:36:46 Now I remember. 09:37:03 I used flags 09:42:49 I see you're busy right now; I hope I can question you about it when you have more time for it. 09:42:54 --- part: Astrobe left #forth 09:43:29 Heh 09:43:34 I'm not busy. :( 09:43:41 I'm just an IRC addict who keeps idling. 09:43:46 :) 09:43:52 you might want to read something then 09:44:03 do you want an url? 09:44:03 I'm reading a few things 09:44:05 Sure 09:44:08 What is it? 09:44:25 about programming languages 09:44:50 lot of problems touched 09:45:03 http://groups.google.ro/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=1995&as_maxd=25&as_maxm=5&as_maxy=2000&frame=right&rnum=1&thl=0,1528421904,1528383983,1528365179,1528350146,1528294127,1528104258,1527134372,1527652039,1527142661,1527653928,1528324403&seekm=m34s82daqz.fsf%40enterprise.newedgeconcept#link1 09:45:18 Whoa. 09:45:21 Monster URL 09:45:23 :) 09:46:00 and monster thread, it's so interesting that i'm still keeping reading after 150 messages :) 09:53:02 --- quit: Sonarman ("Lost terminal") 10:13:27 Heh 10:13:48 have you read it? 10:13:58 Nope 10:14:06 Just returned from...a break from idling 10:14:26 :) 10:16:13 But thanks for the flamewar link. ;) 10:16:43 i find it interesting.. 10:16:57 especially since i design my own language and readind something like that helps :) 10:17:04 *reading 10:17:19 Yeah.. 10:18:14 I was thinking about adding locals to Forth was a better idea than implementing an entirely new language which supports them. 10:18:34 what's the language you speak about? 10:19:01 Oh, I don't have any specific ideas. 10:19:30 i tought you mean that there exists a language created just for the purpose of adding local variables 10:20:33 Nah, I just wanted some way to simplify some code which I found was hard to code in Forth. 10:20:51 (say "factor more" and I'll become violent) 10:21:11 Small loops with several variables, for example. 10:22:10 you might have to redesign the way you do it 10:22:36 so that would be a more stack-based design, than an "a la" C design 10:24:13 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 10:28:47 --- join: sam__ (~yasam@203-114-131-239.inspire.net.nz) joined #forth 10:30:10 --- part: sam__ left #forth 10:30:37 Stack based is OK. 10:30:45 But I need more than just the stack. 10:32:57 i don't know 10:33:05 i'm not very experienced in forth 10:33:36 what attracts me is the fact that you have everything under control 10:37:14 --- quit: yasam (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 10:47:20 --- quit: arke ("Lost terminal") 10:48:59 bbls: Yeah 10:49:20 What _I_ like most is probably the simplicity and compactness. 11:59:56 --- join: swsch (~stefan@p5091E488.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:30:12 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp01375108pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:27:06 --- quit: bbls (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:39:26 --- join: ows (~666@83.132.99.46) joined #forth 14:15:51 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 14:38:46 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.133) joined #forth 14:38:54 hello 14:39:20 hi bbls 14:39:25 hi crc 14:39:30 i have a question 14:39:34 what? 14:39:35 i've read a paper about joy 14:39:45 ok 14:39:55 and i saw this form of quoting: [ + / dup etc ] 14:40:09 then [ ..words.. ] i to unquote 14:40:17 is this available in forth too? 14:40:56 no, forth doesn't really have quoting. 14:41:00 What is quoting? 14:41:10 hmm, why don't anyone tried to add it? 14:41:18 since it's a such powerful feature.. 14:41:40 robert that code would return a pointer to the code, and the program would be able to call it later 14:41:55 so when you push some quoted code, you get a pointer to that code 14:41:59 Ah 14:42:03 then using the "i" word, you can call it 14:42:05 Like a nameless function? 14:42:09 yes 14:42:26 I've done that, but not for use within other colon definitions 14:42:46 So it's most useful for interactive (or compile-time) use. 14:43:06 it can be used to create higher order functions 14:43:17 that can manipulate other functions 14:43:28 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 14:43:35 Hi slava 14:43:50 like [ 1 2 3 4 ] [ 3 + ] map would result into [ 4 5 6 7 ] 14:43:58 heh 14:44:05 is bbls teaching you guys joy? 14:44:09 the [ 3 + ] is a quoted word 14:44:12 slava: nice timing :) 14:44:15 slava :) 14:44:19 No, he's telling us to implement it in Forth. ;) 14:44:24 he was just asking about quoting, and why hadn't anyone added it to forth? 14:44:31 it might be tricky to implement 14:44:40 slava i'm new to forth, but i have some experience with other higher level languages (such lisp) 14:44:43 slava why? 14:44:50 because of how a forth compiler works 14:45:07 you want to compile [ 3 + ] as a dolit for a literal [ 3 + ], then compile the 3 + "somewhere else" 14:45:10 could you explain where the difficulty appears? 14:45:32 compilation happends linearly 14:45:56 yes, but in case that [ is encountered 14:46:01 you suspend compilation 14:46:02 in factor the [ 3 + ] is no problem because its heap allocated 14:46:12 forth compilers don't have general heap allocation usually 14:46:25 bbls, you're getting confused 14:46:30 are we discussing joy [ ] here or forth? 14:46:38 in forth [ ] switch the compiler off/on, it has nothing to do with quoting 14:47:11 slava sorry, i was trying to say something else 14:47:27 oh, joy [ ] I think. 14:48:05 i meant that the "parser" should not generate words for everything after [ until ] then push in the stack just a pointer, but as you said, it needs a heap to store this piece of code 14:48:25 (of course, there is no parser in forth, but i can't find other word for it) 14:48:41 what everybody calls a parser forth calls a compiler, but yeah 14:48:48 you'd need a compiler different than the traditional forth design 14:49:47 yes, indeed, but it doesn't seems that complicated 14:50:07 of course something else than [ and ] should be used since those are already used 14:50:15 --- join: swsch_ (~stefan@swsch.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) joined #forth 14:50:17 maybe .[ ]. or something like this 14:51:06 ANS forth has :noname ... ; : foo [ lastxt ] literal ... ; which is roughly like a quotation 15:06:22 --- quit: swsch (Read error: 238 (Connection timed out)) 15:30:12 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ip70-178-64-54.ma.dl.cox.net) joined #forth 16:02:03 --- quit: madgarden () 16:14:01 --- quit: saon ("Lost terminal") 16:44:26 --- nick: bbls -> bbls1 16:44:28 --- nick: bbls1 -> bbls 16:45:01 --- nick: bbls -> bbls2 16:45:21 --- nick: bbls2 -> bbls 17:23:33 --- quit: bbls (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:44:14 --- join: fmacs (BenjaminMe@68.187.224.130) joined #forth 17:56:23 --- join: saon (1000@c-24-129-90-197.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 18:54:19 --- join: todd (~todd@chcgil2-ar7-4-34-134-163.chcgil2.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 18:56:12 --- nick: todd -> SDO 19:18:08 --- quit: SDO (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:45:01 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4082712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 20:43:25 --- quit: fmacs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:05:26 --- quit: ows ("Leaving") 21:22:02 --- part: slava left #forth 22:06:24 --- quit: hrmpf ("sorry, had to go looking for myself....") 23:03:52 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 23:14:51 --- join: Serg_penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 23:15:04 hi 23:31:04 --- join: bbls (~bbls@80.97.121.133) joined #forth 23:37:00 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.12.22