00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.12.07 00:02:27 --- join: Herkamir1 (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 00:02:28 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:10:37 --- quit: wossname ("firey") 00:20:21 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00:59:45 --- nick: warpzero_ -> warp0x00 01:08:56 --- quit: fridge (Remote closed the connection) 01:10:07 --- join: fridge (~Jim@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 01:41:30 --- join: onetom_ (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 01:41:31 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:30:20 --- join: Baughn (~svein@cloud.brage.info) joined #forth 03:30:03 --- join: skylan_ (~sjh@nwc47-125.nwconx.net) joined #forth 03:40:52 --- join: tgunr1 (~davec@vsat-148-65-228-91.c012.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 03:40:53 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:50:47 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:04:07 --- join: ows (~ows@83.132.99.46) joined #forth 05:06:23 --- join: warp0b00 (~warpzero@mi054.dn176.umontana.edu) joined #forth 05:10:11 --- quit: fridge ("Leaving") 05:18:11 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:41:26 got two flash carts, xport and flash advance 2 05:41:48 dont got them yet tho - on their way :) 06:00:50 im going to flash your cart 06:00:56 or 06:01:05 i flashed your mom's cartridge if you know what i mean 06:57:22 --- quit: Herkamir1 (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:57:22 --- quit: cmeme (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:57:22 --- quit: rsync (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:57:22 --- quit: Robert (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:57:22 --- quit: holden (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:57:22 --- quit: SDO (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:57:56 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 06:59:37 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:00:06 --- join: Herkamir1 (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:00:06 --- join: rsync (nobody@CPE000c41aac435-CM00111ae4f4cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:00:06 --- join: Robert (~pink@c-4d5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 07:00:06 --- join: holden (~alex@dsl-62-3-116-153.zen.co.uk) joined #forth 07:00:06 --- join: SDO (~Super@67-23-111-213.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 07:03:39 --- join: Baughn (~svein@cloud.brage.info) joined #forth 07:21:50 --- quit: warp0b00 ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 07:31:26 --- join: ASau (~root@83.102.133.66) joined #forth 07:31:31 Dobry vecer! 07:34:19 --- join: zol1 (~l@ppp-82-135-1-52.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 07:34:26 hi 07:35:02 http://www.taygeta.com/forthcomp and http://www.taygeta.com/forth both return empty pages here 07:35:16 --- nick: zol1 -> zoly 07:35:24 --- quit: ows ("Client Exiting") 07:35:38 anyone who gets a different result ? 07:36:51 ah, ok http://www.taygeta.com/forth.html works - some paths may have been reworked 07:37:30 http://www.taygeta.com/forthcomp.html (link on page) is empty too 07:41:46 --- part: zoly left #forth 08:07:44 --- join: ows (~ows@83.132.99.46) joined #forth 08:29:35 --- quit: tgunr1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:31:17 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-65-228-91.c012.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 08:31:34 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:33:51 --- join: tgunr (~davec@host-66-81-157-114.rev.o1.com) joined #forth 08:58:42 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:14:23 --- join: arke_ (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 09:27:09 --- quit: ows ("Client Exiting") 09:30:00 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:46:36 hio 09:50:56 teh hies 09:55:44 i 09:55:45 H 09:55:52 :) 09:55:53 :) 09:55:54 :) 09:56:04 I was coding Forth on the 286 at school today 09:56:05 Yay for me. 10:02:57 yay. 10:04:38 im learning lisp 10:05:18 --- quit: arke_ ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 10:08:25 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 10:13:34 Hi 10:14:27 hi. 10:15:24 (: 10:27:36 Robert, my school got rid of all their 286s when I was a somophomore. that was like 7 years ago:P 10:27:53 * OrngeTide was the last to take Pascal on the 286s. 10:28:05 My old school got rid of their 80186 computers a few years ago 10:28:09 I got a bunch of them :) 10:28:21 Been programming Pascal and Comal on them 10:42:45 hrm. my school gave me a bunch of monochrome monitors and hercules video cards when I was going there. it was great. i had dual monitor (vga+mda) on a bunch of my systems. 10:44:35 my school was kinda weird though. it was a little school out in the country. but big companies donated a lot of money so they always had up to date computer labs. (4 labs for a school with 500 students...) 10:46:21 i'm kind of tempted to implement the forth cross dev system for GBA that I440r wanted. 10:46:43 i think it would be easy in forth. once I realized that having an assembler is overrated. 10:47:00 a disassembler would be nice though. hehe 10:50:01 I'm staring to appreciate Forth even more 10:50:43 For example, this morning I had an hour until I had to go to school. So I thought, "why not code some game I can play during class? Oh, and I need something to display the source files" 10:50:58 And then, about two pages of Forth and an hour later, off I go. :) 10:51:11 I could correct the bugs at school, when pausing the game. 10:57:50 woo.. SVFIG is going to examine retroforth this saturday. http://www.forth.org/svfig/next.html 10:58:07 Robert, fun. :) 10:58:19 Fun. :) 10:58:27 Robert, what does it run on? a PC or something portable? 10:58:38 (to SVFIG, but unfortunately I'm in the wrong end of the world) 10:59:04 OrngeTide: Something inbetween. 286 laptop, but you need to be strong to carry it. ;) 10:59:26 I happend to see its power consumption today, which explains why there aren't any batteries. 10:59:34 0.8A at 230V :) 10:59:35 i used to have an NEC MultiSpeed NECV20 laptop(8088) it was fantastic. It was destroyed in a car accident though. 10:59:41 ouch 10:59:42 :( 11:00:13 my NEC would run off fresh nicads all day if you didn't run the backlight or hit the floppy drives too hard (it didn't have a harddrive) 11:00:38 This one has a broken 10MB hard disk. 11:01:10 btw - another reason to like Forth. I used the spare room on an MS-DOS 3.3 720kB floppy. 11:01:25 40kB space left - 20kB after I copied the Forth and a bunch of programs. 11:01:40 i just tossed out a working 386 luggable with plasma monochrome vga display. two ISA slots (one full length). 40mb harddrive. and 9mb of ram. if the shipping charges wouldn't have been huge I should have mailed it to you. :P 11:02:06 :] 11:02:21 * Robert has a lot of computers - but never enough! 11:02:42 it was nead. but the harddrive was not replacable. the bios only recognized two different sizes of 40mb drives. and the battery for the bios needed to be replaced and it was extremely difficult to get to. 11:03:05 i had a ton. but my gf made me throw them away. my 1bedroom apartment is still full of stuff 11:03:31 s/nead/neat 11:04:07 Hehe, I'm single and with a mom who leaves my computers alone. ;) 11:04:21 holy shit. I just got a fantastic idea. I could use my gumstix (400Mhz Xscale w/ MMC slot, bluetooth, etc) and use my gameboy advance as a display/coprocessor. 11:05:00 Hehe :) 11:05:01 the link port on it can be used with rs232. also gumstix has some high speed uarts which might just be compatible with it as well. hrm. i've been wanting some way to have a tiny mini-computer 11:06:19 i've been dying to come up with some use for the gumstix. and i've been also curious as to what I can use one of my three gameboys for. 11:07:45 although the gba is only 240x160 lcd. 40x20 text would be doable. with subpixel rendering I could possibly fit 64x20 11:08:02 which is a nice handy size for editing forth. :) 11:18:49 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 11:19:14 OrngeTide: I hope it works well 11:19:14 I440r: Hi 11:19:52 My programming teacher would need some Forth and an axe in his head. 11:20:31 hi 11:20:33 We don't even get to choose what to code, but are assigned useless programs and coworkers. 11:20:45 heh 11:21:02 I440r: A quick isForth question.. how would I (from high-level Forth) create a code word? 11:21:36 hrm 11:22:14 why would you want a word to write a coded word - every time you called word a it would redefine the coded word b identical to the previous definition or would it be different each time ? 11:22:25 sort of like a macro ? 11:22:28 Eh, no 11:22:32 I440r, hio 11:22:39 OrngeTide, :) 11:22:46 I mean I want to create an assembly language word. 11:22:52 Writing a small machineForth compiler 11:23:06 So I want to be able to run the compiled stuff from within isForth 11:23:17 I440r, i'm thinking of playing with GBA and forth. you got me interested. 11:23:33 :) 11:23:56 although i might just turn my gba into a dumb terminal to drive my Gumstix. 11:24:07 OrngeTide, im getting an xport so i will be able to have a terminal directly conencted to the gba :) 11:24:10 what were you thinking of writing? 11:24:18 I440r, i was just looking at xport. looks neat. 11:24:22 i want a forth i can use to explore the gba 11:24:29 mine is on the way 11:24:37 What CPU does it use? 11:24:38 I440r, making a rs232 serial cable for gba link port is not hard... 11:24:46 robert you want a high level definition to write different coded defs ? 11:25:05 I440r, i think the xport is a better deal than Xess if you want to get into fpga. 11:25:06 its arm7 for the gba. my ds has arm7 and arm9 but i can code for the arm9 yet 11:25:25 gumstix is arm9 + some DSP functions. 11:25:27 ive never worked with fpga's before - might try my hand :) 11:25:29 (XScale) 11:25:37 I440r: Uhm..what? I just want to write something like an assembler 11:25:47 robert ooooh heh 11:26:07 I440r, you have to use this funny pascal-ish language and propritary tools to do anything with an fpga though. :( 11:26:10 well i wrote one of those for the 8051 and im prolly gona hafta write one for arm7(9) now too 11:26:20 OrngeTide, i know 11:26:26 vhdl ? 11:26:39 people have made small cpus that fit on the XC2S50 (the smallest xport 2.0) 11:26:44 vhdl is worse. :P 11:26:49 Bah 11:26:57 verilog > vhdl ... :) 11:27:05 heh 11:27:14 Real programmers design their stuff on the transistor level! 11:27:17 i still consider that a hardware issue tho :P 11:27:54 that xc2s50 would be big enough to make a usb client connector. and there are enough pins you could make a compactflash driver... 11:28:09 ya if i knew hardware :/ 11:28:17 might try get someone who DOES to help :) 11:28:27 it's not hard. it's like legos. they are just little modules you stick together. 11:28:34 brb 11:29:02 i don't do fpga/cpld at all though. It's hard enough just doing software. 11:30:10 back hehe (at work) 11:30:50 robert how many instructions in your assembly ? :) 11:31:13 Around 30 I guess. 11:31:18 and study my 8051 assembler for clues 11:31:18 MachineForth + some stuff 11:31:30 Well, I want to run the stuff FROM isForth 11:31:58 yea 11:32:28 well then you need to write the emulator too (tho to be more correct its a SIMULATOR) - an emulator is hardware you plug in to your target :P 11:32:55 i was gona write an 8051 emulator in isforth too 11:32:59 to go with the assembler/disassembler 11:35:55 OrngeTide, hows the job search ? 11:36:10 Uhm 11:36:17 I think you got me wrong 11:36:24 I'm compiling to x86 code 11:36:27 FROM machineForth 11:36:31 oh 11:36:41 so your writing a virtual machineforth :) 11:36:49 I've been using isForth for previous simulator/assembler projects though 11:37:00 all unpublished ? 11:37:16 Eh, it has been published. 11:37:24 Don't know if it's still there. ;) 11:37:29 not to me :P 11:37:33 Hehe 11:37:40 Well, it worked really well 11:37:52 Was VERY easy to code 11:38:03 * Robert pets Forth, isForth and I440r 11:38:09 heh 11:38:22 that was my #1 goal for isforth 11:38:28 that and take over the world 11:38:30 }:) 11:38:39 Tsss... 11:38:54 By making isForth so bloated that computers will crash? 11:38:55 however. retro is getting rave reviews too:) 11:39:09 well it worked for bill gates! 11:39:18 Hehe 11:39:31 And with Forth you can do twice the damage in half the time! 11:39:50 and 1/100'th the space :) 11:39:50 I should read up on memory protection and stuff 11:39:59 Getting tired of crashing Forths. ;) 11:40:08 then build one that works 11:40:11 isforth needs signal handling 11:40:22 qFox: Bah! 11:40:31 ^^ 11:41:01 Seriously, that's annoying with DOS and simple standalone Forths (like F ;) 11:42:30 If you mess up, they die 11:42:31 And take the entire system with them, 11:42:42 heh 11:42:47 they ARE the entire system... :p 11:42:48 but it reboots quickly 11:43:17 Yes, but that still sucks. 11:43:21 You lose data etc 11:47:59 I440r, oh. i'm not looking for a job. I was just interviewing at places because I want a better job. Sun gave me an offered. but it was rather low and I told them no, unless they can bump it up significantly. 11:48:41 well i guess technically I am looking for a job. ehhe. :) I just don't want people to think I'm in trouble. 11:58:57 I440r, gbc serial terminal. http://www.databoy.netfirms.com/ .. ehhe 11:59:14 actually it can "sniff" rs232. 12:04:19 * I440r looks 12:04:25 wow that looks cool :) 12:05:01 can this act as a serial line between code running on the gba and a pc ? 12:05:05 is that what this is for ? 12:06:34 i think it's stuck with the code on the cartridge. and it just runs as a terminal application. 12:06:49 but it's kind of a neat idea to have a portable sniffer. 12:07:03 if they had a flash version of that which allowed me to put my code on the cart THAT would be good! 12:07:04 you could build that with an xport easily though. 12:07:09 ya 12:07:15 thats what im hoping 12:07:36 actually that xport could drive one of those crystal ethernet chips... 12:07:55 i dare you to have a gba webserver :) 12:08:01 i'd like to see a version of the xport for the DS :) 12:08:11 i'd like to see ANY dev tools for DS. 12:08:15 ya 12:08:26 What's DS? 12:08:30 if they crack the cart and the wireless ill make a wireless forth :) 12:08:36 dual screen gameboy 12:08:44 ds has tons of memory and two fast cpus and great wireless features. it would be a killer device if you could put some of your own software on it. 12:08:50 costs the same as a pda and gives you a lot more. 12:08:55 Never heard of that 12:09:06 holden, you haven't seen the DS? 12:09:13 Nope 12:09:31 oh. it's neat. it's a little foldable game device with 802.11b wireless for $150. 12:09:46 two screens and a touch screen with stylus. 12:09:58 Maybe it hasn't been released in the UK yet? 12:10:01 i guess you can chat and draw pictures to other people in a hotspot. 12:10:05 probably not. 12:10:12 That would explain it 12:10:42 So do you have an ARM Forth in mind? 12:10:47 i never understood why it had to have TWO screens though. games use it. so you can have a first person view and a map view at hte same time. i guess two lcds is cheaper than one large lcd. 12:10:55 yes i do 12:10:58 I'm working on a project with an LPC2106 in it 12:11:04 one written in assembler, NOT one written in c 12:11:11 60Mhz ARM7TDMI on a chip 12:11:12 neat. how are you liking the lpc? 12:11:17 gbaforth is written in c - great tool but i dont like c based forths 12:11:19 It's pretty cool 12:11:37 i was going to get one. but for a little bit more I got a 400Mhz Xscale with 64Mb ram. :P 12:11:49 I'd like to move to programming in Forth on it though 12:11:52 I440r, c based forths. what's the point really. 12:12:02 I440r, i'd rather have a forth based c. :P 12:12:06 hehe 12:12:06 But I can't afford a decent optimizing cross compiler like SwiftForth 12:12:50 Or SwiftX even 12:12:51 i'd like to see some online docs for the xport 2 i just got 12:13:18 3-instruction forth might be a good way to get started on a gameboy if you were willing to build a link cable or hack an emulator to simulate a link cable. http://pygmy.utoh.org/3ins4th.html 12:13:19 oh hehe i found it lol 12:15:10 cept it really doesnt tell me nuttin grrr 12:16:06 well i'm going to hunt up some grub. adios. 12:16:57 :) 12:17:09 --- quit: holden (Remote closed the connection) 12:17:36 --- join: holden (~alex@dsl-62-3-116-153.zen.co.uk) joined #forth 12:22:50 --- quit: holden () 12:22:50 --- quit: cmeme (Connection timed out) 12:24:29 --- join: holden (~alex@dsl-62-3-116-153.zen.co.uk) joined #forth 12:54:16 man. that BLT was expensive. i should have packed my own lunch. 12:55:14 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 12:55:30 --- quit: Herkamir1 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:04:54 hi herk 13:04:58 --- join: saon (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 13:09:03 Hi saon 13:09:11 hey robert 13:27:39 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:31:41 --- quit: tathi (Client Quit) 13:32:02 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:32:39 --- quit: rsync (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:33:28 --- join: FlamingRain_ (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 13:38:28 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 13:45:24 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:52:17 --- join: arke_ (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 13:55:27 --- quit: Robert ("Arnold for president.") 13:58:21 Does Frank Sergeant happen to frequent this channel by any chance? 13:59:01 holden: nope, but he checks his email address frequently. 13:59:19 Do you know much about Pigmy Forth? 13:59:31 Specifically the ARM port he's working on? 14:00:09 holden: well, the DOS port is the best forth short of retroforth 14:00:10 i couldn't find any source for that arm port. cuz i'd really like to use it. 14:00:34 but i know nothing about the ARM port, except that it seems that he now allows things like : foo blah if cheese ; else moo ; 14:00:45 It's not clear how close it is to ANS 14:00:57 its not close,. fortunately :) 14:01:24 --- quit: arke_ ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 14:01:43 --- nick: FlamingRain_ -> saon 14:02:09 --- join: ows (~ows@83.132.99.46) joined #forth 14:04:54 i'm happy with : foo blah if cheese else moo then ; ... why change such a comfortable syntax? 14:05:49 --- join: arke_ (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 14:06:09 I prefer to aim to write stuff that's reasonably close to ANS to ease porting between different Forths and different CPUs 14:07:02 i follow ANS up to the point that it gets in my way. 14:07:13 Yep 14:07:33 hehe. 14:07:50 i guess thats why so many people use gfroth and swiftfroth 14:08:04 (not that I refer to ANSI-following forth systems as "froth" instead of "forth" 14:08:09 haah 14:08:55 I'M sorry, but : foo ... ; immediate is just sinly ugly 14:08:59 * arke_ prefers 14:09:01 MACRO 14:09:03 : foo ... ; 14:09:03 FORTH 14:09:12 like pygmy or colorforth or retroforth or cmforth 14:09:19 and probably several other forths as well 14:09:19 ^_^ 14:13:25 --- quit: arke_ ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 14:27:34 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 14:28:25 OrngeTide: the riscypygmyness source code is here: http://utoh.org:8888/pygmy/13 14:28:34 Some of it is written in Lisp though :( 14:30:15 i hate frank sergeant's website. all the text on the screen turns red when I'm moused over it. it makes me kind dizzy :( 14:30:30 It's some kind of Wiki I think 14:30:38 yea. 14:30:48 i like wikis. this one just has some weird features. 14:30:58 I hate it when people use Wikis as a substitute for an ordinary web page 14:31:48 i use a wiki instead of a real webpage. wiki text is just plain easier to edit. plus it has versioning. 14:32:09 http://wiki.rm-f.net/ 14:32:20 that's my web site:) 14:32:33 Why expose the editability to the public unless it has a good reason to be publicly editable though? 14:33:17 well exposing the editing to the public is optional on a tikiwiki. infact you have to have an account on my box to edit my pages. 14:33:38 Your site isn't www.orangetide.com then? 14:33:43 i have that too 14:33:50 Ah right 14:33:59 that is sort of a hand maintained site. i put a lot more work into it and it sucks a lot 14:34:11 http://www.alexholden.net/ but there isn't much there... 14:35:23 I'm thinking of removing all the index.html files on my orangetide.com site and doing pure directory browsing. 14:35:41 Why? 14:35:43 the html just makes it harder for people to find stuff anyways. 14:36:12 my website has 35Gb of stuff, but you can't find any of it. 14:37:08 i need to write something to suck up all my bookmark files on all the instances of firefox I run and combine them so I can sit down and sort all my links and put them up. 14:37:18 BTW I know a little bit about your link "Source to some kind for Forth for StrongARM - ???" 14:37:23 bookmarks.html is a 3mb file on my main machine.. :P 14:37:33 holden, hrm? 14:37:47 You have that link on orangetide.com 14:37:56 I sort-of used to know the author 14:38:27 oh. on my forth page. yea 14:38:35 I was deeply into NetWinders at one point (had a job developing drivers for a custom board for them) 14:38:59 neat 14:39:00 And Andrew Mileski (sp?) worked for Corel as one of their main developers 14:39:22 I talked to him a little about his Forth, but he had some weird licensing policy 14:39:46 i was incredibly close to buying a netwinder. but they changed hands and the price never came down. 14:40:02 Something like 'you have to let me know what you use it for and ask my permission if you want to use it in a commercial product' IIRC 14:40:11 Yep 14:40:18 i wanted a quiet work station for a very long time. 14:40:31 It was pretty disappointing- they could have been much bigger than they were 14:40:35 holden, yea. people put weird restrictions on things sometimes. 14:40:41 They weren't quiet though 14:40:48 That damn whining fan ;) 14:40:59 oh that stinks. 14:41:12 Some people modded theirs to fit a bigger quieter fan where the internal speaker is 14:41:32 yea. i would've ended up doing that. noisy equipment bugs the hell out of me 14:42:33 Also another problem with that Forth is that the source is very unreadable- it uses a weird hybrid of M4 and Gnu ARM assembly. 14:43:21 dammit. this postscript file I'm assembling is 1.3Gb now. something has gone totally wrong. when I put it together as a broken pdf it was 11Mb 14:43:35 Heh 14:43:54 I think your printer might be a bit unhappy if you send a 1.3GB file to it 14:45:27 yea. i don't ever print stuff. but I am putting this document on my website. 14:47:42 looks like it's just a bug with xpdf .. i can assemble the pdf the way I originally did and it will display in acrobat correctly. 14:47:50 im currently printing the datasheet for the arm7 :) 14:47:58 8 pages per sheet of paper :) 14:48:01 4 on each side hehe 14:48:29 i wanna do the same for the arm9 but i cant find the datasheet and the arm web site is anoter example of how NOT to do a web page 14:48:30 grr 14:48:36 I440r, yea. I printed out the quick reference cards. 14:48:53 http://www.arm.com/documentation/Instruction_Set/index.html 14:49:01 I440r: Which ARM forth are you planning to use then? Or are you thinking of writing your own? 14:49:24 --- join: saon (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 14:49:39 my own 14:49:49 the only ones i can find are commercial ones and ones written in c 14:49:50 Cool 14:50:06 i think a forth host targeting arm directly would be easier and faster than running forth on arm. *shrug* 14:50:32 There are some more, but I don't think any are all that great - apart from ones like SwiftX and MPE which are way outside my budget. 14:51:06 i dunno why you'd even pay for that stuff. 14:52:08 They're (allegedly) very complete and stable, well documented and supported, produce small fast code, and Just Work. But they're also very expensive. 14:52:44 you think THEY are over priced? look at the arm development suite from arm themselves. they only charge six THOUSAND dollars for it 14:52:58 I know, that's just ridiculous 14:53:16 ARM didn't even write it themselves- they bought the company 14:53:19 keil charge 5 thousand for their 8051 c compiler too :/ 14:53:36 the original owners of arm dont own it any more ? 14:53:37 Yep 14:53:47 Er 14:54:04 I mean ARM didn't write the arm compiler they sell 14:54:08 oh ok 14:54:13 yea. i've signed POs for $10k dev kits. but that was for C :P 14:54:15 well im not interested in a compiler 14:54:17 just the assembler 14:54:26 i'm telling you, you don't need an assembler. :P 14:54:36 i can code one in isforth 14:54:40 but i'd rather not 14:54:40 There's GNU as... 14:54:45 yuck. 14:54:47 fuck gnu. i HATE gnu 14:54:53 :) 14:54:56 but illprolly hafta use them :( 14:55:01 or goldroad 14:55:15 but thats unmaintained, outdated and only for arm7 14:55:28 a simple machine code generator in your favorite forth. and possibly a disassembler would be all you need. 14:55:28 Don't know anything about it 14:55:36 a disassembler would be super easy to write for ARM. 14:55:57 and you don't necessarily need it, but it would help. 14:56:07 -ive not looked at the opcodes in detail yet but yea - both assembler and disassembler look doable for me 14:56:16 where as x86 has been undoable for 3 years for me 14:56:35 x86 it a complete mess to disassemble. :( 14:57:06 you have to write this big state machine to do it. I did it in C once. not even forth would have make the task any less painful. 14:57:12 s/make/made 14:58:10 i've really gotta write this forth cross-dev thing to show you that you don't need assembly language. 14:58:35 well you should have looked a the opcodes as OCTAL values not hex 14:58:50 that would have made your job much easier. i dont think it would be very difficult to write an x86 disassembler 14:58:56 but the assembler would be a bitch 14:59:23 in my disassembler I worked with bits. most fields are 3-bit aligned. so octal works well. but some aren't. 14:59:42 the assembler for x86 is actually easier. 15:00:29 both not as easy as risc 15:01:51 does anyone here have a link to the arm 9 instruction reference ? 15:02:14 http://www.arm.com/documentation/ARMProcessor_Cores/index.html take your pick 15:02:50 grr why couldnt i find a link to that on www.arm.com 15:03:00 http://www.arm.com/pdfs/QRC0001H_rvct_v2.1_arm.pdf .. that's just a quick ref for the instruction set for the entire ARM family. 15:03:02 i spent ages going from link to link to link to link to..... 15:03:14 well i want the complete spec sheet for the arm 9 15:03:23 oh. google and do: "site:arm.com instruction" or something. 15:03:37 erm these look like arm10 and arm11 stuff 15:03:40 wheres the arm9 ? 15:03:48 the documentation link has complete tech specs for all the arm7 and arm9 variants. 15:04:24 errr do i want the arm920t ? 15:04:25 arm920T, arm940t, arm946e, arm966e, ... ARM9E .. that's what you want. 15:04:32 which arm9 is in the ds ? 15:04:39 http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DDI0240A_9ES_R2.pdf 15:04:41 i dunno. 15:05:08 the differences in the instruction set is quite minor. the differences is mainly in the i/o memory map and things like that 15:07:16 the one thing ive noticed about these sheets is that they dont tell you exactly what they mean by rn and rd in their opdode descriptions 15:07:30 they explain everything else about their shorthand EXCEPT what those two mean exactly 15:07:43 oh 15:07:50 theres a new i see here 15:07:56 mov Rd, Hs 15:07:59 wtf is an Hs ? 15:08:05 and Hd 15:08:19 so thats rd, rn, hd, hs, and probably more that they dont explain 15:08:30 looks kinda important that they explain wtf that means 15:10:26 eheh. 15:11:18 According to ARM ARM "Rd specifies the destination register" "Rn specifies the first source operand register" 15:11:30 where do you see that ? 15:11:44 i used to have an ascii arm guide. I should find that. 15:11:46 ive read the arm7 manual a cpl of times and missed it BOTH times 15:11:50 In my copy of the ARM ARM 15:14:15 what are the biggest differences between the arm7 and the arm9 ? 15:14:15 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 15:14:20 Dunno 15:14:39 Are Hd and Hs related to multiply perhaps? 15:15:00 As in 'High destination' and 'High source' or something like that 15:15:16 That's a guess because I can't find any reference to them in the ARM ARM 15:15:34 But it's an old edition which doesn't cover arm9 15:16:36 http://www.jharbour.com/gameboy/default.aspx .. free e-book on gba dev. and my compilation of the entire book into one big fat pdf. http://orangetide.com/projects/farm/documentation/gbadev.pdf.gz 15:17:15 I'm off to bed now anyway... TTFN 15:18:04 ok. one thing i wont be using is HAM :) 15:18:04 hehe 15:22:09 this book looks well written :) 15:26:31 hrm.. ARM asks that you buy their book if you want any detail. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201737191/qid=1102461942/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-8744790-4975251?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 15:26:50 like getting instruction formats for making your own assembler/compiler/etc seem to be best listed in that $35 book 15:34:52 Hi all! 15:49:12 hi 15:52:34 --- join: saon (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:54:24 hi OrngeTide 15:54:42 I was away trying scorched3d 16:09:15 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@216-110-82-206.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 16:22:30 --- quit: saon ("off to attempt setting up my linux box to connect to inet :)") 16:26:00 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:31:14 --- nick: skylan_ -> skylan 16:36:44 --- quit: ows (Excess Flood) 16:37:08 --- join: ows (~ows@83.132.99.46) joined #forth 16:41:03 Herkamire, how's scorched3d? 16:41:14 i played this java online scorch clone. i forget where or what it was called though. 16:56:02 --- join: raystm22 (~color4th@adsl-69-149-44-134.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:01:28