00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.12.01 00:07:21 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00013BN34/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/104-8476166-6850346 .. geez amazon has those little B&W tvs for less than walgreens, that's scary. a $18 TV set 00:07:50 if i ever become homeless i'll at least be able to watch simpsons 00:08:19 * OrngeTide has been thinking of making a TV-based computer for a couple years now. 00:08:57 i'd rather hack a composite input into an $18 TV than risk my $2300 tv on something i built :) 00:09:51 :) /me catching up with you . yes 18 dollars that's wild :) 00:10:02 christmas gifts :) 00:10:19 you could afford to give tv's to everyone now 00:17:51 hehe. it's a crappy tv though. 00:19:28 I'm sure your correct 00:19:46 just the thing for office parties 00:22:07 but i think a cheap b&w tube is better for reading text than a cheap color tube. if you can feed it a decent signal you should be able to put a 64x16 block on the tv. if you generate a really cheesy 160 line video mode, but make up for it with 512 horizontal pels, that would be pretty nice. 00:22:41 might be fun to put colorforth on it :) 00:23:11 well good luck encoding information in colorforth with an 8x10 monochrome font. :) 00:23:37 there are colorblind versions 00:24:16 i know. but it's hard to fit that much information in 8x10 00:24:30 :) 00:24:45 10x20, then sure. you can have a ton of different font faces and make it looks super neat 00:25:00 actually 8x16 vga has a bunch of user made fonts that look pretty different. 00:25:57 hmmm 00:26:14 512x256 video would be ideal for a forth on a crt then... 8x16 font, 64x16 video 00:26:24 er.. 64x16 text 00:26:30 yeah 00:26:40 and you could definently do colorforth on that. 00:27:41 especially if you used a real DAC instead of the common trick of 2 pins to represent 3 voltage levels. ( sync level, black level, white level) 00:27:42 that's not a bad Idea OrngeTide. 00:27:58 okay- i follow that 00:28:59 with a dac you could do some shades of grey. so white on dk.grey, black on lt.grey, black on white and white on black. that's pretty easy to distinguish, i think. 00:29:51 i'm looking for a way to have 1 processor generate a video signal and another processor actually run forth. having one processor do both is going to suck like a ZX81 spectrum computer. 00:30:04 and no. i'm not going to use MuP21 00:32:03 that is also a very good idea- two processors :) 00:32:42 * Raystm2 is a little distracted setting up my p1 sound with internet found drivers. 00:35:45 the tough part with these microcontrollers is they don't talk to other devices in a very transparent way. 00:37:25 oh they don't -- i'm lost this regard, but if you care to explain, I would love to learn it :) 00:37:40 the chip for video would be powerful enough to generate the video signal. generate characters out of it's onboard flash. and poll it's i/o pins to see if a serial message is being sent to it to update it's 64x16 buffer. 00:37:55 okay so far :) 00:38:32 but i'm just annoyed i can't take the elegant solution of making some super dumb thing read a piece of shared ram (dual port ram). 00:39:04 * Raystm2 nods 00:39:05 just like a real video card does. (even CGA did this, although it didn't use dual port ram) 00:39:35 i would rather just write to an address than have to serially access everything. 00:39:40 ok == with you so far 00:40:58 it makes writing games harder if you have to use some serial interface. because you have to preprogram what you can do with it. 00:41:40 i suppose it's a reasonable comprimise. 00:42:21 so basically I'm thinking some cheap PIC or msp430 "video controller". with enough useful commands and font bitmaps to implement a nethack-like game in forth :) 00:42:50 that would be so cool 00:43:02 you need chess, nethack, othello. otherwise nobody will be impressed that you spend 200 hours putting it together 00:43:11 hee 00:43:38 I've already done chess in colorforth -- gforth - and now working on one for crc's retrobot 00:44:11 I still need to make myself learn nethack tho 00:44:24 but mainly you can hack forth with it. and run it on a forth vm (token threaded?) on the msp430 (since it can only execute code in it's own flash) 00:44:40 nethack is a lot easier than chess. :) 00:44:40 okay - i get that 00:44:47 is it? 00:44:50 googleing 00:44:58 well are you doing an ai in chess? 00:45:16 it will eventually 00:45:21 i was writing an othello ai. i got somewhere with it, but it was way harder than writing nethack 00:45:22 so far two players 00:45:28 ah. 00:45:39 colorforth needs comm 00:45:49 gforth shares a persistant file 00:45:58 I think msp430 can execute code from RAM 00:46:01 PIC can't 00:46:10 retrobot will play in the query chat 00:46:13 yea. your right. 00:46:20 I've been thinking about porting hforth to msp430 00:46:25 okay -- thanks holden 00:46:29 although i think the biggest msp has 4k of ram 00:47:08 wait. some of these have 10k .. geez. ti is making huge ones. 00:47:52 i'd put an mmc slot on there too. since mmc is so darn cheap and easy to use. 00:48:15 you can see an example of colorforth chess here http://thin.bespin.org/c4th/ 00:48:16 I have one of these but not got around to playing with it yet: http://www.olimex.com/dev/msp-169stk.html 00:48:17 not that you'd ever come up with 8mbyte of crap to feed the system. :P 00:48:30 :) 00:48:53 maybe you could read etext at 64x16 on it. (or maybe the video controller could support rendering fonts double or quadruple size) 00:49:53 http://thin.bespin.org/c4th/c4thches2-2.jpg screen shot with first generation of piece icons 00:51:43 pretty fancy:) 00:53:58 the worlds tinest chess operating system starts on block 86 of the html file. it uses the editor and an exaple of Jef Raskins copy mech to provide persistance. 00:54:28 neat 00:54:44 the graphical chess in the picture starts on block78 00:55:45 the relevent code only needs 4 blocks to provide a two player game 00:55:54 that's pretty impressive. 00:56:22 thank you :) blush 00:56:52 the chess on block 86 only needs the one block to play 00:58:01 but with recording persistance -- you might use 50-60 blocks - read number of moves - and this system provides for branching off to experiment with game moves 00:58:22 that's some ugly icons 00:58:33 thanks fridge :) 00:58:45 the queen is a little too nintendo :) 00:58:48 they are realy retro looking :) 00:58:48 anytime =D 00:59:08 well i gotta go to sleep. nite 00:59:23 put the two chess games together and you have a graphicall with persistance - just needs comm now. 00:59:28 okay by OrngeTide :) 00:59:35 bye even :) 01:01:14 this was two of the simplest chess mechs I could think of - the gforth one that i wrote and will be porting to retrobot is more traditional. 01:02:07 they're text based charaters instead of Icons which makes it easier to play in chat. 01:03:27 and uses board co-ords for moves for everything execpt castleing . you also have an en-passont function too but you needn't use it , the system picks up on this situation naturally. 01:04:04 01:05:29 doh!! I could do the board co-ord version of castleing to shit 01:11:37 the reason for board co-ord version is that an ai could be easily ported to the board mech 01:12:23 the ai would use a chess algebra notation to comm with GUI and a board co-or to comm with board. 01:16:51 --- quit: raystm22 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 02:11:36 --- join: zoly (~l@ppp-82-135-1-30.mnet-online.de) joined #forth 02:12:01 'morning 02:13:33 --- part: fridge left #forth 02:53:49 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 03:01:11 --- part: zoly left #forth 03:02:21 --- quit: retrobot2 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:04:09 --- join: raystm22 (~colorfort@adsl-69-149-40-142.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 05:10:50 --- join: raystm22_ (~colorfort@adsl-69-149-40-142.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 05:10:50 --- quit: raystm22 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:08:39 --- join: madwork_ (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:09:29 --- nick: madwork_ -> madwork 07:46:34 --- join: gulliver (~gulliver@bi-node.teuto.de) joined #forth 07:56:19 --- part: gulliver left #forth 09:07:10 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:12:10 --- join: arke_ (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 10:00:22 --- quit: arke_ ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 11:12:16 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 12:12:36 --- join: fca (~anvil@h229n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 12:26:28 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-118.nyc-tc03a.FCC.NET) joined #forth 13:07:40 --- join: arke_ (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 13:08:13 hi 13:09:19 hiya arke 13:10:13 hi TheBlueWizard 13:11:21 'sup? 13:11:40 nothing :) 13:11:51 ok :) 13:12:34 hows life with you? 13:12:42 hows job homelife forth projects? 13:14:03 job...on ice; homelife...sweet so far; forth projects...on hold while I am doing other things :) 13:14:42 : 13:16:39 what is this emoticon : ? 13:18:40 --- quit: arke_ ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 13:21:30 --- join: allefant (~root@L0632P16.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 13:25:44 haha 13:25:50 "radionecrology" 13:26:07 you have three guesses as to what that means, in dutch anyways... now... 13:26:38 ohyeah, i'll waste most of the tobeexpectedattempts, it has NOTHING to do with sex. 13:27:58 X-raying of dead bodies? 13:29:21 no. 13:30:22 hmm....ok I give up 13:30:53 its the life story told on the radio when someone famous died... or so it seems 13:31:26 a member of the royal family died about an hour ago (he was 93 so its no big surprise or anything), but earlier this week a ehrm 13:31:39 script, of what to do when he dies, was leaked to the internet 13:31:52 this was a script used by a certain news station, or whatever the heck it was 13:32:13 the script had literally written what the newsreaders should say at certain times that day or the next day 13:32:31 that there were lots of flowers at certain locations, and that condoleances were incoming from other countries, etc 13:32:35 I see 13:32:44 "news" ... hmpf 13:33:10 looks like the "radio-" prefix has two meanings then :) 13:33:15 anyways, one of the first words of that huge document was that the radionecrology was ready 13:33:35 i didnt bother to read most of the rest as its full of crap really :) 13:33:46 yeah, our dutch "webster" didnt know that word either ;) 14:22:30 It's quite normal for newspapers to have 'death files' containing hundreds of canned obituaries. They employ people just to keep them all reasonably up to date so not too much needs to be changed when one actually dies. 14:40:34 --- quit: raystm22_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:41:50 its not so much that. its more the fact that you get a "wake up, news is old!" kinda thing. plus its a strange word either way you put it 14:42:07 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 14:44:02 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 14:44:20 hiya I440r! :) 14:45:10 hi 14:46:17 <-- at work :) 14:47:28 ok :) 15:06:34 --- join: allefant_ (elias@L0662P05.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 15:20:49 bye all 15:20:53 --- quit: allefant (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:21:03 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 15:22:26 --- join: raystm22 (~colorfort@adsl-69-149-40-142.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 15:31:48 hi 15:49:27 --- nick: allefant_ -> allefant 15:55:28 --- join: aum (~aum@60.234.138.239) joined #forth 16:14:36 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 16:29:43 --- quit: allefant ("Client exiting") 16:32:11 --- join: Zymurgy (zymurgy@NorthBay-ppp108937.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 16:50:57 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-220-253-75-214.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 17:02:54 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-209-233-52-8.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:10:00 --- join: Sonarman_ (~matt@adsl-64-169-94-176.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:16:16 --- quit: Sonarman (Nick collision from services.) 17:16:23 --- nick: Sonarman_ -> Sonarman 17:17:36 --- quit: cmeme ("Client terminated by server") 17:18:23 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.2) joined #forth 17:52:24 --- join: saon (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 17:58:41 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool20-63.nas31.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 17:58:51 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 18:01:51 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 18:01:59 --- quit: raystm22 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 18:35:29 --- join: crc2 (crc@0-1pool36-146.nas35.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 18:50:12 --- quit: crc (Nick collision from services.) 18:50:14 --- nick: crc2 -> crc 19:02:44 --- quit: crc ("" Time for bed... Goodnight!" type cr bye") 19:13:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 19:13:16 --- join: raystm22 (~colorfort@adsl-68-93-40-34.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 19:18:46 --- quit: raystm22 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 19:22:34 --- quit: aum () 19:31:19 --- join: I440r (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 20:12:43 --- join: Herkamir1 (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 20:13:02 --- join: raystm22 (~colorfort@adsl-68-93-40-34.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:16:42 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:21:12 --- quit: Zymurgy ("Leaving") 20:28:47 --- join: Raystm2 (~Ray@adsl-68-93-40-34.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:43:01 --- join: greenchile505 (~pgyore@ip68-230-122-76.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth 20:43:48 --- quit: greenchile505 (Client Quit) 21:09:36 --- quit: holden (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds) 21:35:07 --- nick: Raystm2 -> NanStM1 22:08:24 --- nick: NanStM1 -> Raystm2 22:12:13 --- quit: OrngeTide ("gone") 22:12:58 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 22:22:12 --- join: onetom_ (~tom@160.114.27.135) joined #forth 22:22:40 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:53:24 --- quit: I440r (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 22:53:25 --- quit: ianp (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 22:53:25 --- quit: A-Day (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 22:58:12 --- join: I440r (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 22:58:12 --- join: A-Day (~A-Day@137.104.77.101) joined #forth 22:58:12 --- join: ianp (~ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 23:00:18 --- join: tgunr (~davec@A17-205-44-150.apple.com) joined #forth 23:01:12 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 23:01:45 --- join: I440r (mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 23:17:23 --- quit: ianp (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:17:24 --- quit: A-Day (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:18:36 --- join: A-Day (~A-Day@137.104.77.101) joined #forth 23:18:36 --- join: ianp (~ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 23:24:25 --- quit: A-Day (Connection reset by peer) 23:28:25 --- quit: Herkamir1 ("bed") 23:37:21 --- quit: ianp (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:37:46 --- join: ianp (~ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 23:38:12 --- quit: warpzero (Remote closed the connection) 23:46:53 --- quit: tgunr (Remote closed the connection) 23:48:13 --- join: tgunr (~davec@A17-205-44-150.apple.com) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.12.01