00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.11.26 00:06:27 --- quit: Sonarman_ ("leaving") 00:15:00 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 01:02:35 --- join: binaryguy (russell@host81-129-69-180.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 01:42:46 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool0-19.nas26.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 02:01:13 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:05:59 --- join: ASau (~root@83.102.133.66) joined #forth 02:38:49 --- quit: fdiskyou (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:13:13 --- join: retrobot2 (crc@bespin.org) joined #forth 03:13:13 RetroForth Bot -- Type retrobot2: 03:23:30 retrobot2: ." Hello World! :) " ; 03:23:32 binaryguy: Hello World! :) ;? 03:23:46 8*) 03:24:19 binaryguy, no need to end in ; unless it's a definition :-) 03:25:08 sorry I'm quite stupid u know! 03:25:48 that's ok... 03:43:19 retrobot2: 5 0 do ." Hello " loop 03:43:21 binaryguy: do? 03:43:48 c told u :0) 03:44:19 RetroForth doesn't have do/loop (and they have to be used in a definition anyway...) 03:44:54 retrobot2: : foo 5 repeat ." Hello " until ; 03:44:55 crc: 03:44:57 retrobot2: foo 03:44:58 crc: Hello Hello Hello Hello Hello 03:45:07 :-) 03:45:44 newbies huh! who'd have 'em! 03:46:05 everyone was a newbie once ;-) 03:46:42 (And RetroForth is rather non-standard, which makes things harder anyway...) 03:57:01 --- quit: imaginator ("sleep") 03:57:34 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:57:53 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool220-59.nas17.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 04:20:06 /me wonders how to simplify this word: : zt-make here over 4 / 1+ cells dup allot > 2dup + >r dup >r swap cmove r> 0 r> c! r> ; 04:47:41 --- join: Syrenova (~Notelling@pool-68-163-41-105.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 05:11:05 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4082712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 05:21:56 --- part: Syrenova left #forth 05:41:09 crc, better define words to operate with alignment. 05:41:29 such as? 05:43:17 : align-up ( x a -- x' ) 2dup mod dup if - + else 2drop then ; 05:43:37 ick 05:43:57 1) no if (I have =if if <>if ?if) 05:44:02 2) no else 05:44:30 if -> 0 =if 05:44:55 else -> exit endif 05:45:06 then -> ( nothing ) 05:45:25 Well. 05:45:30 if -> 0 <>if 05:45:49 And what does "?if" mean? 05:47:22 ?if checks the carry flag 05:48:14 : align-up 2dup mod dup >r - r> ?* + ; 05:49:16 : ?* minus and ; ( FIG style flags ) 05:51:54 No. 05:52:00 : ?* 0<> minus and ; ( FIG style flags ) 05:52:14 I don't have 0<> either 05:52:24 minus would be the same as negate? 05:52:38 Well, negate. 05:53:17 : 0<> 0 =if 1 ;s then 0 ; 05:53:28 How do you call ";s"? 05:53:34 "exit"? 05:53:38 ;; 05:53:58 OK, : 0<> 0 =if 1 ;; then 0 ; 05:55:13 Do you have "0<"? 05:55:45 : 0< rol 1 and ; 05:56:13 : 0<> dup 0< swap minus 0< or ; 05:56:17 What's rol? 05:56:25 Rotate left. 05:56:30 Nope 05:56:57 "rshift"? 05:57:02 << 05:57:23 : 0< $80000000 and 31 rshift ; 05:57:24 * crc pares down zt-make to: 05:57:25 : zt-make >pad 1+ 2dup + 0 swap c! dup >r here swap cmove here r> dup allot ; 05:58:20 I've moved "2dup + 0 swap c!" to a separate word. 05:59:06 It's used too frequently. 05:59:13 Such as? 05:59:35 In RetroForth I only use it *once*, and that's in this defintion 05:59:41 : >zt 2dup + 0 swap c! ; 06:01:25 I'd better move this to a separate word. 06:01:44 Even if it's used once. 06:01:51 why? 06:03:13 It's logically closed definition. 06:03:33 ? 06:03:37 One word for one (logical) action. 06:04:23 Anyway, one line is not enough for your definition. 06:04:30 --- join: allefant (~root@L0652P20.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 06:04:31 It's not? 06:04:48 I mean, Forth line, that is 64 characters long. 06:05:09 So? 06:05:21 --- quit: holden () 06:05:22 Sorry? 06:05:38 That has no bearing on its length 06:05:51 (That means: "Retransmit.") 06:06:46 My block editor can handle defintitions longer than 64 characters 06:07:02 --- join: holden (~alex@dsl-62-3-116-153.zen.co.uk) joined #forth 06:07:38 my forth can handle 255 character lines 06:08:12 Mine can handle 1024 byte lines 06:08:59 * crc notes that RetroForth isn't tied to blocks 06:10:23 It looks you've missed something in zt-make. 06:10:32 what did I miss? 06:10:49 Maybe, ">pad _count_"? 06:11:04 ? 06:11:26 >pad returns the address of PAD and the count 06:11:39 I don't have a "count" word 06:12:21 Or you probably have written excess ">pad". 06:12:31 Ahh. 06:12:35 : >pad dup >r pad swap cmove pad r> ; 06:13:45 "swap cmove" is used twice at least. 06:13:56 So? 06:14:11 A candidate for a separate word. 06:14:20 ASau: if I factored out *everything* I'd have hundreds of words 06:14:25 = greater complexity overall 06:15:10 I don't think so. 06:15:19 Can you hide definitions? 06:15:34 Not easily 06:16:09 RetroForth has ~120 words, constants, and variables. It's a small, clean set 06:38:34 --- nick: Raystm2 -> chatralias 06:40:56 --- nick: chatralias -> Raystm2 08:06:23 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 08:06:51 Hi 08:07:59 Hi Robert 08:08:24 :) 08:08:50 hey 08:09:19 And hi foxie 08:47:40 robert> do you have firefox available (and possibly opera, if that has a port for linux?) for a test? 08:48:04 firefox under windows (fresh download) shows my site perfectly, at least as perfect as i want it to. 08:48:21 however, at university, on macintoshes under mac osx, its screwing up an iframe 08:48:31 so much for them being the same... 08:55:15 weird 08:55:17 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:57:36 --- quit: allefant ("Client exiting") 09:54:43 --- join: swsch (~stefan@p5091EA08.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:55:28 --- quit: swsch (Client Quit) 10:05:38 hi 10:12:27 HI TEH ARKE 10:14:29 hiz0rs eh w0rkz0rz 10:14:57 how ruz3z0rz3z??// 10:16:09 iz0rs amz-0rs t3h finz0rzer3z0rs 10:17:15 sw33tz0rz ur t3h r00l463 10:17:53 : r001463 ." t3h 4rk3" cr ; 10:18:35 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-160-165-11.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 10:25:16 < madwork> : r001463 ." t3h 4rk3" cr ; 10:25:18 owned 10:25:20 :) 10:25:21 hi Sonarman 10:51:32 --- join: Sonarman_ (~matt@adsl-64-169-94-51.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 10:51:33 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:57:12 --- join: ows (~ows@83.132.99.46) joined #forth 11:02:20 --- quit: Sonarman_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:08:30 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-66-124-255-23.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 11:13:57 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 11:41:52 for the edification of the group -- the discussion called "Jump Tables and Arrays as applies to colorforth with Tim Neitz" is currently in the log of #c4th online at -- http://herkamire.com/c4thlogs/04-11-24 . the conversation actually starts the day before so if you wish hit previous day like to see that too :) 11:41:58 s/like/link 11:52:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +nl 83 11:53:02 --- join: thinfu (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 11:53:12 --- nick: thinfu -> futhin 11:53:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 11:53:47 --- mode: futhin set -t 11:53:52 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 11:54:02 --- topic: set to 'get a controller with c64 inside it fully hookupable to the tv! www.qvc.com 27 bux for 1 or 47 bux for 2' by futhin 11:54:13 --- part: futhin left #forth 12:03:01 Are ANSI X3.215-1994 and ISO 15145:1997 really the same thing? The latter is 10 * the cost of the former. Is it even worth getting ANSI X3.215-1994 since the final draft is available for free, or were there changes between the final draft and the published standard? 12:03:36 good question. I have no idea 12:10:17 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 12:10:41 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@ppp-66-124-255-23.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 12:15:47 --- join: allefant (elias@L0650P05.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 12:39:10 --- join: chatralias (~theotherb@adsl-68-93-115-44.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 12:39:47 --- nick: chatralias -> raystm22 12:55:22 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 13:12:12 yah. i ordered two of those commodore 64 joysticks. time for me to study up on how to make a gadget to turn an MMC flash card into a floppy device for it. hehe 13:15:22 i'm sure there are a billion 6502/6510 forths out there. :P 13:16:55 :) 13:21:49 OrngeTide: that assumes that the 1000, coders that can or want to write a forth have written 1,000,000 forths each :) 13:22:46 :) 13:25:36 Raystm2, yea. i think i'm averaging about 1,000,000 forths 13:34:42 I just bought ANSI X3.215-1994 but I'm a bit disappointed with the quality of the document. It's clearly been scanned in at a fairly low resolution from a printed copy, but strangely the actual (presumably OCRed) text must be in there as well as the pictures of the pages because it's searchable. 13:35:55 is it the ANSI forth standard? 13:36:02 Yes. 13:36:10 nice 13:36:16 18 USD from ansi.org 13:37:03 i wonder if it is much different from the draft version.. 13:37:23 yea. i bought that too. it's this huge ass pdf. :( 13:37:35 i usually use the draft version cuz it's smaller and loads fast 13:37:52 heh 13:38:00 And renders much more nicely than the crude scanned version... 13:38:02 but i dropped $60 at kinkos to have them print and spiral bind the full standard 13:38:57 I select non-standard standards and bug the authors on IRC. 13:41:13 i tend to just use forth-83 since i don't like ansi 13:51:49 --- join: ASau_ (~root@83.102.133.66) joined #forth 13:53:52 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:59:47 --- join: swsch (~stefan@p5091EA08.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:00:59 OrngeTide, cool sprites. ;) 14:01:11 Forth-83 is the shiznit 14:01:38 * Robert had odd dreams about Forth. 14:01:41 Stupid fever... 14:02:17 Were you programming in THORF? 14:02:33 ; swap 1 2 foo : 14:03:08 I don't remember, but I must be really fucked up if I have scary dreams about Forth. 14:04:03 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-063.nyc-tc03b.fcc.net) joined #forth 14:04:06 i've had dreams about #debianppc. am i fucked up? 14:06:33 Only if they turned into space aliens, chasing you. 14:08:04 --- quit: allefant ("Client exiting") 14:10:26 --- quit: binaryguy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:23:26 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:24:07 Well, aliens use Forth. 14:24:11 Obviously. 14:28:45 heh 14:32:00 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-68-93-115-44.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:46:27 madwork: hehe 14:46:43 at least the ones that are capable of interstellar travel do 14:54:10 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 15:01:53 * raystm22 getting a meal brb 15:04:32 --- join: fdiskyou (~worx@a213-22-130-138.netcabo.pt) joined #forth 15:07:10 --- quit: warpzero (Remote closed the connection) 15:43:33 --- quit: TheBlueWizard (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:55:54 --- join: swsch_ (~stefan@swsch.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) joined #forth 15:56:59 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.103.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 16:04:20 --- quit: swsch (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:28:23 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-68-93-115-44.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:56:03 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 18:09:50 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-68-93-115-44.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 18:41:10 OrngeTide, did you play our Sword of Fargoal remake? 20:09:45 --- quit: Robert (Remote closed the connection) 20:30:43 --- quit: ows ("Client Exiting") 22:30:11 --- quit: raystm22 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:30:11 --- join: chatralias (~theotherb@adsl-68-93-115-44.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 22:30:42 --- nick: chatralias -> raystm22 22:30:56 --- nick: raystm22 -> raystm22_ 23:15:15 --- join: Sonarman_ (~matt@adsl-64-169-92-52.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 23:22:33 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.11.26