00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.11.23
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01:06:47 <ASau> Dobry vecer!
01:06:54 <ASau> Eh...
01:07:00 <ASau> Dobre jitro!
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01:23:23 <ASau> Dobry den, qFox!
01:23:29 <qFox> hi
01:23:44 <qFox> my domains have been registered today :D qfox.nl and kuvos.nl
01:33:43 <ASau> Are the sites ready?
01:34:23 <qFox> they have been ready for .... 3 years or so :p
01:34:34 <qFox> just never got around to registering the pages
01:34:37 <ASau> OK, testing.
01:34:43 <ASau> Or tasting.
01:34:44 <qFox> although the dns might have to propagate
01:34:52 <qFox> its only been done last night
01:34:54 <qFox> it works for me...
01:35:28 <qFox> kuvos.nl points to the dutch version, and qfox.nl to the english version. the two are identically translated otherwise
01:35:48 <qFox> (which is a bitch :\ when updating)
01:35:55 <qFox> and now i must go to school. cya
01:35:58 <ASau> www.qfox.nl works.
01:36:01 <qFox> ok :)
01:36:10 <ASau> qfox.nl does not.
01:36:25 <qFox> i'm gonna have t otest whether the macintosh browsers will screw things up :\ the weblog part is new and i havent tested it yet there
01:36:39 <qFox> later
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02:54:56 <ree> lisp rules
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04:32:26 <Robert> Hi 
04:37:31 <crc> Hi Robert
04:38:53 <Robert> Hi crc :)
04:41:39 <Frek> good afternoon robert
04:42:01 <Robert> God eftermiddag :)
04:42:07 * Robert continues coding
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04:46:16 <Robert> Hi Ray
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06:21:06 <Robert> Hi 
06:28:50 <Raystm2> hey Robert :) how are ya :)
06:31:18 <Robert> Fine, fine! A miracle allowed me to pass the math test, and now I'm back to coding this game (due tomorrow).
07:03:21 * crc sighs. Time to get some sleep.
07:03:39 <arke> :)
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07:06:54 <Robert> Hi TheBlueWizard 
07:07:19 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Robert
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07:53:02 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r_
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09:11:55 <arke_> hi
09:23:10 <Robert> h4i.
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09:44:37 <futhin> hai
09:44:51 <futhin> wa doko desu ka
09:45:06 <Robert> Mi ne komprenas.
09:45:19 <Robert> Kio vi diras?
09:45:27 <futhin> uh oh we're breaking the rules
09:45:41 <Robert> not are we
09:45:50 <arke_> der kaese schmeckt sehr gut. robert kann dass auch bestaetigen.
09:46:05 <arke_> futhin: are we relaly? op me
09:46:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke_
09:47:23 <Robert> You are relaly!
09:47:40 * arke_ grins
09:47:54 <arke_> WHO WANTS TO KET KICKBANNED!?! ?!!?!! OMG LOLZOR
09:49:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +ntl 83
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09:49:53 --- mode: futhin set -o arke_
09:49:55 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin
09:53:49 <madwork> wossname!
09:54:00 <Robert> wossname!
09:54:05 <Robert> (I hope he's working)
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10:15:37 <madwork> Let's ping him.
10:17:39 <futhin> like pinging would do anything different than ^G ?
10:17:54 <madwork> 
10:19:23 <madwork> I think they are different effects, yes.
10:21:16 <futhin> well ^G beeps.  and ping would beep.  so they both beep.
10:22:09 <madwork> Depends on his client.
10:22:39 <madwork> Plus, ^G doesn't tell you who was beeping at you.
10:23:04 <futhin> oh i guess thats important to you ;)
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10:50:15 <madwork> Hello...
10:51:18 <Robert> Hi
10:56:32 <Raystm2> Hi madwork :) HI Robert :)
10:57:41 <Raystm2> for those of you interested -- this thursday the inventor of multi-tasking colorforth, Tim Neitz, will be discussing JumpTables and Arrays in the #c4th channel at 11 am GMT - all are invited.
10:58:18 <Raystm2> some of you may know him as /NICK rj_cf.
10:59:55 <Raystm2> Tim will be providing examples and I will be converting them to html before the discussion. the link will be posted pre discussion -- most likely later today - after I finish them and fix a leaky pipe under my sink :)
11:00:43 <Robert> Thanks for the info, I'm joining!
11:01:15 <Robert> Even though I'll be at school then, but I still got my logs.
11:01:37 <Raystm2> great and the whole thing will be logged to the web by Herkamire.com
11:02:29 <Raystm2> if you have a running colorforth and want to get a jump on the questions- you can look at the ascii converter on block 48. 
11:02:55 <Raystm2> if you can't attend and have questions -- get them to me before 11 am GMT on Thursday -- okay.
11:03:33 <Robert> I don't think I have any.
11:03:37 <Raystm2> :)
11:16:45 <fridge> remember to clean up all the water after you have fixed the pipe
11:17:09 <fridge> I had a new kitchen installed, one of the new pipes sprung a leak
11:17:16 <fridge> and water got in behind the cupboards
11:17:21 <fridge> now there's a funny smell =(
11:17:26 <Robert> :(
11:17:50 <fridge> well, not much anymore
11:18:03 <fridge> fans + baking soda around the place helped soak up any moisture
11:23:17 <I440r_> whoi was it that made a forth for the gameboy ?
11:23:20 <I440r_> someone in here
11:23:26 <I440r_> might not be a regular any more tho
11:23:30 <I440r_> cant remember
11:29:28 <fridge> I remember seeing the screenshots
11:32:49 <fridge> http://medlem.spray.se/sandos/gba_forth/
11:35:00 <Raystm2> thanks for the tip Fridge :) brb going for parts :)
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12:16:42 <tathi> I440r: we had a guy in here, went by nick `neobrat' and then `jma' who did a forth for gba.
12:16:56 <tathi> That was near the end of 2002 IIRC.
12:17:21 <tathi> It didn't run ON the GBA though, ran on a host system and compiled code for GBA.
12:17:54 <tathi> Also CrowKiller was making some kind of link cable with a PIC (which he was programming with forth, I think).
12:29:11 <I440r_> right
12:29:22 <I440r_> :)
12:29:25 <I440r_> good memory :)
12:29:46 <I440r_> are any of the above available ?
12:29:52 <I440r_> ya know where they are ?
12:30:16 <tathi> no idea.
12:30:51 <tathi> I suppose I could grep through the channel logs though.
12:34:39 <I440r_> not that big a deal really :)
12:36:09 <tathi> yay for unix text tools :)
12:36:18 <tathi> the domain has expired though
12:36:25 <tathi> simforth.com
12:39:08 <I440r_> doh :P
12:57:12 <madwork> WTForth!
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13:22:47 <madwork> hi allefant
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13:27:17 <arke_> wtf 
13:27:19 <arke_> wallhack
13:29:03 <madwork> hi
13:29:10 <madwork> hallwack?
13:29:11 <madwork> Er
13:29:13 <madwork> wallhack?
13:32:09 <allefant> anyone knows of some simple forth example code I could use to demonstrate my forth?
13:33:49 <madwork> How simple? What kind of demonstration?
13:34:13 <madwork> Here's some stuff: http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~stoneda/cs71/examples.html
13:34:26 <allefant> should take about 30 minutes, and it should introduce to Forth, as well as show the capabilities of my implementation, and be not too boring :)
13:34:44 <allefant> heh
13:35:01 <allefant> i was actually thinking about fibonacci numbers
13:35:06 <madwork> Argh, those links use locals.
13:35:15 <madwork> code at those links
13:35:32 <allefant> yep, looks very useful, thanks
13:36:39 <madwork> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExampleForthCode
13:37:02 <madwork> There's a fair bit of Forth stuff in the pages of c2.com
13:40:55 <allefant> maybe i should use 1 minute or so on the history of forth
13:42:01 <madwork> Preparing your project presentation?
13:42:19 <allefant> yes, after postponing it again last week, it's definitely this friday
13:42:25 <madwork> Heh.
13:44:03 <madwork> Forth's threaded code model would be an interesting point of discussion, I think.
13:44:12 <madwork> model(s)
13:44:32 <allefant> yes. i'll have to explain ITC in any case
13:44:51 <allefant> and probably mention how other models work
13:45:00 <madwork> Yep. It's the simplest and drives the point home well.
13:45:07 <madwork> Nice compact ITC
13:45:23 <allefant> i somehow have a feeling nobody will be able to follow me for long in any case
13:46:10 <allefant> so such simple code examples will show more
13:46:44 <arke_> STC is the simplest, IMHO
13:47:33 <allefant> it needs no next
13:47:57 <allefant> so, true, it's actually simpler
13:47:58 <arke_> DTC is simple too
13:48:00 <arke_> ITC is complicated
13:48:03 <allefant> hm
13:48:12 <arke_> so is NTC
13:48:16 <arke_> errr TTC
13:48:19 <madwork> ETC
13:48:33 <arke_> I made up a threading type
13:48:36 <Herkamire> There are some nice forth code examples on my wiki: http://herkamire.com/jason/forth_code
13:48:36 <arke_> I call it MooTC
13:49:34 <madwork> elias, you could make a simple menu system or something as an example.
13:49:38 <allefant> i should add floats so i can see the mandelbroit generator
13:49:48 <Herkamire> arke_: in which?... you feed your code to a cow and get output out the other end?
13:49:49 <madwork> or fixed
13:50:24 <allefant> simple menu system?
13:50:33 <madwork> Yea.
13:50:37 <Herkamire> menus are for sissies
13:50:53 <madwork> Well, there will be a class full of sissies needing a sissy demo.
13:51:10 <arke_> Herkamire: its a fictional threading I thought of
13:51:20 <arke_> Herkamire: triple layer instead of dual layer
13:51:25 <arke_> Herkamire: immediate, compile, and Moo
13:51:31 <arke_> Moo is the actual executing
13:51:45 <arke_> so what needs to be executed is put as a token into a queue
13:51:48 <Herkamire> I have a mandelbrot in herkforth that uses fixed point: http://jason.herkamire.com/svn/herkforth/blocks/166
13:51:52 <arke_> and a different process eecutes the ueue
13:51:53 <arke_> :P
13:51:56 <allefant> madwork: but how would the menu system work?
13:52:04 <madwork> arke_, sounds more like vocabularies than threading
13:52:12 <allefant> do you actual mean a graphical menu?
13:52:23 <madwork> allefant, well it could be a numbered menu.
13:52:34 <madwork> Like, make a simple "choose your own adventure" out of it.
13:52:52 <Herkamire> ixsnay on the menus ay
13:52:57 <madwork> Just thinking of a simple yet interesting example that non forthers can follow.
13:53:13 <madwork> Herkamire, utupshay. :P
13:53:24 <Herkamire> lol
13:54:34 <Herkamire> some day, I want to make an animation of something like "1 2 + 3 * 3 8 * +" executing 
13:54:44 <Herkamire> and maybe "." at the end
13:55:12 <allefant> like, a java applet, where the cells are little boxes, flying to and from the stack?
13:55:25 <arke_> YES!
13:55:27 <arke_> that would be awesome
13:55:28 <arke_> in fact
13:55:36 <Herkamire> hell will freeze over before I make a java applet
13:55:37 <arke_> I want to make forth by moving around 3D boxes
13:56:14 <Herkamire> I don't think writing something in java really demonstrates how cool forth is
13:57:06 <Herkamire> I was thinking more along the lines of writing something in forth
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13:57:25 <madwork> Herkamire, hook your Forth into Allegro or SDL and make a graphical widgemacallit.
13:57:48 <Herkamire> madwork: I just mmapped /dev/fb/0
13:58:03 <allefant> fb doesn't work with my card
13:58:09 <Herkamire> sorry
13:58:17 <Herkamire> it's just a temporary solution
13:58:36 <Herkamire> it works the same way as when I boot
13:59:15 <Herkamire> I was never planning on doing anything serious with graphics under linux
13:59:24 <Herkamire> too much of a pain
13:59:51 <Herkamire> I'd rather write drivers for my graphics card than write code to link to shared libraries
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14:00:50 <madwork> Well, you could do it all textmode.
14:02:17 <Herkamire> I could
14:02:38 <Herkamire> but I would prefer that things would float around smothely
14:02:57 <madwork> I mean, nobody cares about cool-ass translucent rotating 3D cubes anyway.
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14:03:08 <tathi> :)
14:03:19 <Herkamire> :)
14:03:26 <Herkamire> hey, I should be the one saying that!
14:03:30 <madwork> :)
14:05:24 <allefant> http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~prigaux/language-study/diagram.png
14:05:33 <Herkamire> ok, I've figured out what I could make it look like so it would be clear in text mode
14:05:42 <allefant> i think i will steal that as my first slide
14:05:50 <allefant> although, forth looks rather small in it
14:06:29 <madwork> Shows its relative uniqueness.
14:07:01 <allefant> yes, that's what i want. somehow it's besides all the mainstream languages
14:14:09 <tathi> huh.  I don't see Joy on there.
14:14:41 <allefant> yes, i'm still looking for a better one.. with more colors, and dates
14:14:47 <allefant> but most don't have forth on them :P
14:14:51 <Herkamire> hehe
14:14:59 <tathi> :)
14:15:12 <madwork> Whoa: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/family-tree/
14:15:21 <Herkamire> well, forth doesn't really have anything to do with the other languages
14:15:49 <madwork> Yes, in Forth's mind, those other languages can all go to hell, the bastards!
14:15:58 <madwork> Who do they think they are, anyway?
14:16:29 <madwork> YES! Blazin' Forth is on that chart I linked.
14:16:30 <allefant> heh, according to that tree, gforth is the culmination point of all forthes :)
14:17:39 <tathi> I have to admit, Anton is pretty cool
14:18:52 <allefant> seems he is giving lectures on forth. and even in a uni in the country i'm in.
14:19:41 <madwork> You could become his apprentice, and learn the dark ways of the Forth.
14:20:21 <Herkamire> madwork: very cool
14:21:28 <Herkamire> heh, it does sorta look like gforth is the end result of all that other stuff
14:22:01 <Herkamire> kinda weird how the ans-->gforth arrow circles around the mac stuff at the top
14:22:44 <allefant> also the arrow from figforth->gorth is quite weird
14:22:49 <allefant> *gforth
14:23:01 <allefant> maybe they had overlooked gforth at first, then tried to retro-fit it to the graph :)
14:23:48 <allefant> hu,
14:23:49 <allefant> hum
14:23:57 <allefant> it has 2 arrows from figforth to gforth :P
14:24:49 <Herkamire> allefant: yeah, that's what I thought at first, I think the lower one actually comes from F83
14:25:12 <allefant> ah, true
14:25:25 <allefant> the upper still is weird.. it starts in the wrong direction
14:25:28 <allefant> http://www.digibarn.com/collections/posters/tongues/ComputerLanguagesChart-med.png
14:25:32 <allefant> i think i'll use this one
14:26:38 <allefant> and the internal forth tree, just to show that some people are actually writing forthes :)
14:30:23 <Herkamire> um... that one says that forth has no known users or up-to-date compilers
14:31:09 <Herkamire> can anybody tell the two red/orange colors apart in the key?
14:33:01 <allefant> not me
14:33:08 <allefant> but forth is green, so 1000ds of users
14:33:24 <allefant> oh wait
14:33:26 <allefant> it's black
14:33:33 <allefant> :P
14:34:30 <Herkamire> do people actually program in postscript? or are they just refering to the fact that it's used as a file format for page layout kind of stuff
14:34:40 <allefant> just was wondering the same
14:34:57 <allefant> i mean, who will create .ps files in a code editor? sureley nobody
14:35:55 <allefant> hm. i could have a slide "where forth is used today"
14:47:07 <tathi> postscript is actually fairly easy to use by hand.
14:47:47 <tathi> It's just that all the automated tools prefer brevity to readability
14:47:57 <allefant> i used to fix some things like wrong bounding boxes per hand
14:48:49 <tathi> http://www.cappella.demon.co.uk/psfiles/pracpost.html is a pretty nice intro.
14:52:40 <allefant> oh, nice, it has multiple dictionaries
14:58:32 <Herkamire> yeah, I thought it wasn't too hard, but I also thought that pretty much nobody did it
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15:05:29 <hcf> tathi: i noticed the forth/gba stuff in the log.. forth/gba links: http://www.emulinks.de/software.html http://medlem.spray.se/sandos/gba_forth/
15:05:51 <tathi> yah, someone mentioned the second one yesterday, I think.
15:06:15 <hcf> ok
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15:06:32 <tathi> :)
15:07:09 <Raystm2> for the benifite of those who don't read the list and are interested in colorforth -- Tim Neitz will be hosting a discussion of jumptables and arrays in colorforth on thursday at 11am GMT for about 90 minutes in #c4th -- thank you :)
15:08:01 <tathi> hmm, I'm GMT -5, so 6 am here.
15:08:06 <tathi> Cool, I can probably do that.
15:08:34 <Raystm2> cool like to see ya there :)
15:08:51 <tathi> Not that I'm much of a colorforth person any more.
15:08:55 <Raystm2> bring your questions :)
15:09:32 <Raystm2> well there are several of us die-hards that would like to atleast keep it open as an option to the greater forth community :)
15:09:40 <tathi> Oh, sorry.
15:09:54 <tathi> I still like the idea, I just haven't done anything interesting with it in a couple of years.
15:10:44 <tathi> Herkamire kind of took over the "colorforth on PPC" banner, so I haven't felt too motivated :)
15:10:59 <Raystm2> Oh okay -- yeah I can see why hehe
15:11:19 <tathi> :)
15:12:10 <tathi> I wrote one with the original Huffman-encoded tokens.
15:12:25 <tathi> But came to the conclusion that it was too limiting.
15:12:52 <tathi> So...we discussed other possibilities -- I was still waffling, and he went ahead and wrote something. :)
15:13:12 <Raystm2> hehe
15:31:18 <I440r_> grr can anyone fine a gba forth written in ASSEMBLER?
15:31:33 <I440r_> if not ill write one
15:34:47 <tathi> what do you want a gba forth for?
15:35:05 <I440r_> my gba ds :)
15:35:40 <tathi> did you just get one or something?
15:35:45 <I440r_> its like a C64 on steroids :)
15:35:49 <I440r_> ya
15:35:52 <tathi> yeah, I know.
15:35:54 <tathi> ah, ok.
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15:37:19 <I440r_> ! i just realised that was hcf lol
15:37:24 <I440r_> and i didnt even say hi :/
15:39:40 <tathi> well...you would have had to notice in the 2 minutes that he was here :)
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16:17:50 <I440r_> heh
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18:24:18 <Raystm2> for the benifite of those who don't read the list and are interested in colorforth -- Tim Neitz will be hosting a discussion of jumptables and arrays in colorforth on thursday at 11am GMT for about 90 minutes in #c4th -- thank you :)
18:24:52 <Sonarman> yeah, i saw your post on c.l.f.
18:24:58 <Sonarman> looks like it's gonna be interesting
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18:36:30 <futhin> I440r_ i440r you there
18:37:22 <I440r> no :)
18:37:25 <I440r> heeh
18:37:48 <futhin> I440r: isforth ain't working..  it doesn't recognize a big number like 8888
18:37:56 <futhin> newest isforth..
18:38:03 <I440r> get rid of screen
18:38:59 <I440r> are you using screen ?
18:39:20 <futhin> yeah probably, let me check without
18:39:34 <I440r> screen is a piece of shit
18:39:35 <I440r> period
18:39:51 <I440r> im not goiung to "fix" isforth for a fuckup in screen
18:39:57 <futhin> thats really weird..
18:40:06 <futhin> because the big number was in a file
18:40:12 <futhin> and i just tried to load it thats all..
18:40:13 <futhin> heh
18:40:34 <futhin> what if i run isforth in pure script mode..
18:40:43 <futhin> isforth -runsomefile..
18:40:47 <futhin> without it opening
18:40:57 <I440r> np
18:41:10 <I440r> ./isforth -fload myfile
18:42:46 <futhin> huh how do you close your forthbot again?
18:42:55 <I440r> x hehe
18:43:38 <futhin> is the fancy stuff at the top of isforth a menu
18:44:21 <I440r> no not yet
18:44:24 <I440r> its info
18:44:36 <I440r> first comes free list and head space memory
18:44:39 <I440r> thenm the current base
18:44:43 <I440r> then the current date and time
18:44:47 <I440r> its called a status bar
18:44:53 <I440r> oh
18:44:57 <I440r> and the depth too
18:46:17 <futhin> depth is for weenies :P
19:06:32 <madgarden_> depth is the shiznit
19:06:36 --- nick: madgarden_ -> madgarden
19:09:40 <futhin> nope.. not really.
19:10:10 <futhin> one of my first forth programs used depth.  boy that was stupid, i don't use depth anymore
19:10:39 <madgarden> Why was that stupid?
19:11:16 <futhin> cause depth is stupid
19:11:32 <madgarden> Yes, I see the logic now.
19:11:56 <futhin> well it sounds like you're still juggling items on the stack if you think depth is good
19:13:32 <madgarden> No, I don't use anything worse than ROT.
19:13:40 <madgarden> But I do use DEPTH for debugging.
19:13:51 <futhin> hmm
19:13:54 <futhin> i just use .s
19:13:55 <futhin> :)
19:14:09 <madgarden> That too... but, sometimes you need some active checking.
19:15:10 <madgarden> Something like:
19:15:23 <madgarden> : ?params depth over < if ." Need " . ." params" cr (abort) then drop ;
19:15:43 <futhin> heh
19:17:06 <madgarden> Discovered that one from Blazin' Forth. :)
19:17:14 <madgarden> Great little Forth, that.
19:17:27 * madgarden hugs his Blazin' Forth
19:18:27 <futhin> whats with forth and puns? heh
19:20:57 <madgarden> It's just too perfect. :)
19:21:16 <madgarden> If you don't like it, get the FORTH out!
19:21:28 <futhin> thats not a pun
19:23:39 <madgarden> Sure it is... but merely a crappy one.
19:38:57 <futhin> I440r: how does retroforth in linux compare in speed to isforth?
19:40:39 <I440r> no idea
19:40:43 <I440r> ive never run retro
19:42:04 <futhin> i figured someone might've mentioned the speeds..
19:47:07 --- nick: futhin -> f
19:47:12 --- nick: f -> futhin
19:47:19 <madgarden> Damn, I wasn't fast enough...
19:47:21 <madgarden> ;)
19:47:44 --- nick: madgarden -> foothin
19:50:53 --- nick: foothin -> madgarden
21:02:26 --- nick: arke -> fuckyouthin
21:03:10 --- nick: fuckyouthin -> arke
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21:29:52 <Robert> Morning 
21:31:59 --- quit: futhin ("sleep")
21:37:03 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:37:49 <arke> HI Robert 
21:37:50 <arke> robtrob
21:38:07 <Robert> HAIETC
21:38:24 <Raystm2-> hi both :)
21:38:53 <Robert> Hi Ray
21:40:35 <arke> hi Raystm2- 
21:41:11 --- nick: Raystm2- -> Raystm2
21:41:21 <Raystm2> thanks arke :)
21:41:51 <Robert> fridge: First of all, it's "al mi"
21:42:07 <Robert> fridge: (unlike every other language, preposition controls subject form ;)
21:42:39 <Robert> And the rest...wait for someone else to reply.
21:42:51 <Robert> I just happen to remember that part because of the game.
21:48:15 <arke> moo
21:49:28 <Robert> Yes, moo...
21:49:43 <Robert> Now I have to go to school, and show it to the teacher.
21:49:53 <Robert> Everyone pray that he doesn't beat me too bad.
22:00:29 <Raystm2> good luck :)
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22:50:52 --- nick: Raystm2 -> ffooff
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.11.23