00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.11.21 00:04:15 --- join: Serg[GPRS]_ (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 00:05:08 hi 00:05:26 is where any channel dedicated to multimedia trubblez ? 00:05:48 * Serg[GPRS]_ is having difficulty w/ DVD rip audio volume 00:57:45 at Friday at friend's home i found a book about Soviet Forth-like language for base-3 machine ;)) 00:58:00 (he is cumpleet dummie and has no comp) 01:07:24 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-68-95-253-110.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 02:00:34 --- quit: c0redump ("Leaving") 02:19:29 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 02:30:47 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool108-43.nas53.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 02:43:00 --- quit: Serg[GPRS]_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:55:27 --- join: Serg[GPRS]_ (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 02:56:24 re 02:56:31 seems like i need an UPS ;(( 03:05:12 --- join: infostud (~Geoff@220.233.76.183) joined #forth 03:05:45 --- part: infostud left #forth 03:48:58 --- join: Raystm2- (~vircuser@adsl-68-95-253-110.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 03:57:31 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:09:36 --- quit: Serg[GPRS]_ () 05:07:49 --- quit: Raystm2- (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:08:54 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 05:15:45 --- join: divgrad (~wer@energonad8.telecom.by) joined #forth 05:15:46 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 05:21:07 --- quit: divgrad () 06:25:07 hm. does anyone happen to know whether you can hide a horizontal scrollbar in html? like there is the scrolling="no" property, but i just dont want the horizontal bar... 07:16:24 --- join: allefant (elias@L0656P20.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 07:39:19 --- join: ows (~ows@a81-84-114-211.netcabo.pt) joined #forth 07:40:48 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:11:25 --- join: wossname (~sonarman@rn-v1w5a06.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 08:23:48 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:50:08 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 09:04:00 --- join: madwork__ (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 09:04:00 --- quit: madwork_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:52:44 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:03:39 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool104-30.nas52.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 10:11:59 --- join: retrobot2 (crc@bespin.org) joined #forth 10:11:59 RetroForth Bot -- Type retrobot2: 10:18:58 --- quit: allefant ("Client exiting") 11:05:30 retrobot2: pwnage 11:05:32 arke: computers? never? make? mistakes? 11:05:39 retrobot2: 1 2 3 . . . 11:05:41 arke: computers? never? make? mistakes? 11:10:54 retrobot2: ." arke, please don't break me :-(" 11:10:56 crc: arke, please don't break me :-( 11:11:52 --- quit: crc ("Time for bed... Goodnight!") 11:18:30 what did I do? 11:18:52 don't think you did. 11:19:28 I think that stuff was left over from somebody yesterday. 11:40:53 retrobot2: 1 2 3 . . . 11:40:54 arke: 3 2 1 11:42:04 does "bye" work ? 11:42:09 :P 11:51:39 --- join: MicroDan (~SIMPLE@roc-66-66-13-211.rochester.rr.com) joined #forth 11:51:48 hi 11:51:59 hi 11:54:40 what are your general impressions abount the growth/shrinkage of the Forth community? 11:54:55 no idea. 12:00:25 the forth community is growing. very slowly 12:00:40 most of the people in here never even heared of forth 3 years ago 12:00:45 tho some did :) 12:01:21 neway, i gotta go set up my subversion server again 12:01:22 grr 12:01:25 --- quit: Frek ("Client exiting") 12:09:47 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h229n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 12:10:27 --- quit: Frek (Client Quit) 12:11:06 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h229n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 12:26:31 I440r: why do you believe that portability is impossible? 12:29:34 'cause he's a crusty old curmudgeon :P 12:35:57 hehe 12:38:34 --- quit: hyrax (SendQ exceeded) 12:40:43 I440r? 12:42:55 --- join: hyrax (~das@adsl-64-219-100-33.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 12:46:02 --- quit: Frek () 13:10:47 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-235-29.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 13:22:09 --- join: futhin (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:22:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:22:46 I440r I440r_ how do i deal with file descriptor 6 and 7 in isforth? 13:25:18 err what are they ? 13:25:37 0 1 and 2 are the standard file descriptors. 6 and 7 must be files YOU opned 13:27:08 actually 13:27:14 they're files my mom opened 13:27:37 retrobot2: ." /me is a ROBOT! :)" 13:27:39 arke: /me is a ROBOT! :) 13:27:53 retrobot2: CR ." /me is a ROBOT! :)" 13:27:54 arke: CR? 13:27:58 retrobot2: ." arke is driving his brother to school" 13:27:59 futhin: arke is driving his brother to school 13:28:04 er 13:28:05 library 13:28:06 whatever! 13:28:07 lol 13:28:10 --- kick: arke was kicked by futhin (futhin) 13:28:17 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:28:23 --- kick: futhin was kicked by futhin (futhin) 13:28:25 --- join: futhin (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:28:36 wtf, you took away ops? 13:28:43 yeah turned off autoops 13:28:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 13:28:54 good :) 13:29:01 --- kick: futhin was kicked by arke (:)) 13:29:07 --- mode: arke set -o arke 13:29:07 --- join: futhin (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:29:29 retrobot2: 10 10 + . 13:29:31 retrobot2: 10 emit ." /me likes cheese" 13:29:31 wossname: 20 13:29:32 arke: /me likes cheese 13:29:38 ....damn 13:29:59 retrobot2: 13 emit ." /me likes cheese" 13:30:00 arke: /me likes cheese 13:30:00 retrobot2: : explode ." computers don't make" begin ." mistakes" again ; 13:30:02 wossname: computers? don't? make"? mistakes"? 13:30:16 retrobot2: 10 10 + . 13:30:17 wossname: computers? don't? make"? mistakes"? 20 13:30:20 :o 13:30:24 WTF!? 13:30:27 retrobot2: ;D 13:30:29 wossname: computers? don't? make"? mistakes"? ;D? 13:30:37 retrobot2: : explode ; 13:30:39 arke: computers? don't? make"? mistakes"? 13:30:49 retrobot2: : zee zee ; zee 13:30:50 wossname: computers? don't? make"? mistakes"? 13:30:56 retrobot2: ." WOSSNAME WHY THE F*** DID YOU BREAK ME!?!?" 13:30:57 arke: computers? don't? make"? mistakes"? 13:30:58 now he is properly fucked :) 13:31:05 ... 13:31:06 wtf 13:31:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 13:31:15 * arke grin 13:31:17 :~o 13:31:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:31:29 --- kick: retrobot2 was kicked by futhin (compute this) 13:31:32 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 13:31:34 retrobot2: ." please be alive?" 13:31:37 .... 13:31:40 just in case you were wondering how he got that way, arke 13:31:43 you weren't supposed to kick him het 13:31:49 somebody needs to make him invulnerable to that kind of 'attack' 13:32:23 we need a network of bots, so that the bots will attack the humans when the humans try to feed bad code! 13:32:30 DIE HUMANS! 13:32:41 D: 13:33:00 we need a network of synthetic bots which act as hosts for human brains 13:33:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:05 --- kick: arke was kicked by futhin (we need to replace your brain with a robot) 13:34:17 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:34:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 13:34:35 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:38 muaha! 13:34:38 man, the chanserv levels don't let me turn off kick for you :( 13:34:39 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:34:40 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:45 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:47 chanserv automatically keeps ops 13:34:49 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:49 i'm not doing anything 13:34:50 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:51 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:52 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:52 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:55 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:34:56 lol 13:34:57 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:34:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:35:00 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:35:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:35:01 all #forth all the time!! 13:35:02 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:35:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:35:02 you can't win against chanserv 13:35:05 --- mode: arke set -o futhin 13:35:05 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:35:05 --- mode: futhin set -o arke 13:35:19 --- nick: futhin -> thin 13:35:20 --- nick: thin -> futhin 13:35:23 hi MicroDan 13:35:30 --- mode: futhin set +o arke 13:35:32 --- mode: futhin set -o arke 13:35:36 hmm 13:35:42 * futhin shrugs 13:35:45 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 13:36:29 slava, my dear, how i've yearned 13:36:32 so see your face, i've earned 13:36:34 your love, i hope, in this 13:36:49 land of forth, gone amiss 13:36:50 lol 13:37:10 no tongues?! 13:37:14 * arke b ows 13:37:17 that is so deep ;_; 13:37:23 ;;;;__;;;;;;;;; 13:37:37 oh shit! the oneside dominated by tears! 13:38:52 my rear is ready 13:38:56 my heart pumps steady 13:39:01 --- part: tathi left #forth 13:39:03 yet i stand alone 13:39:43 futhin my dear 13:39:50 strike 'way your fear 13:40:05 and stick it where its gone 13:40:06 * arke bows again 13:40:10 poke it in the rear? 13:40:33 arke can do anal and forth poems with ease! 13:40:46 closely related 13:40:54 LOL 13:41:35 coding challenge! write forth code that reflects its anal-centric nature! 13:42:00 coding challenge: write a prolog implmentation in forth 13:42:08 : shit swap ; 13:43:22 slava: give me example prolog code 13:43:29 and i'll code prolog in forth in two lines 13:43:42 lol 13:43:51 wossname: swap?! you dirty poo eater 13:43:54 : shit drop ; 13:43:58 : eat dup ; 13:44:02 eat shit 13:44:08 NOP 13:44:11 optimized: 13:44:15 : eat-shit nop ; 13:44:22 fuck that 13:44:26 :) 13:44:27 eat-shit isn't proper english 13:44:33 eat shit is 13:44:38 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:38 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:38 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:38 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:39 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:40 hyphens are GHEY! 13:44:41 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:44 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:46 * futhin bitchslaps arke 13:44:46 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:47 * futhin bitchslaps arke 13:44:47 * futhin bitchslaps arke 13:44:48 * futhin bitchslaps arke 13:44:49 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:51 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:53 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:56 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:59 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:44:59 * futhin knocks out arke 13:45:01 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:45:02 i win! 13:45:03 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:45:06 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:45:06 #FORTH - THE #1 CHANNEL FOR FORTH DISCUSSION 13:45:09 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:45:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 13:45:11 * arke bitchslaps futhin 13:45:12 --- kick: arke was kicked by futhin (futhin) 13:45:19 all forth, all the time! 13:45:21 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:45:24 wossname: definitely 13:45:24 Moo. 13:45:36 wossname, because nobody here codes :) 13:45:43 ;/ 13:45:47 except I440r 13:45:52 lol 13:45:57 slava: my fear is large, as are you 13:45:58 hey slava i would like to note that i am a highly elite hacker!! 13:46:12 do not lump me in with the non uber! 13:46:14 ok! 13:46:20 slava: for i doubt compressed poo 13:46:22 wossname: what language do you code in? 13:46:26 slava: does my anus very well 13:46:32 scheme and c! 13:46:36 slava: but it must feel very swell1 13:46:48 wossname, what scheme impl? 13:46:49 wossname: you get a bonus point for scheme and lose the bonus point for c.. 13:46:57 what's wrong with C? 13:46:58 :) 13:47:05 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 13:47:11 slava: I warn you. 13:47:13 i use plt because i am a windows lamer 13:47:15 --- kick: arke was kicked by futhin (futhin) 13:47:18 rofl 13:47:18 plt is good 13:47:18 whats RIGHT with c 13:47:19 --- join: arke (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:47:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 13:47:22 I440r, its fast 13:47:24 --- kick: futhin was kicked by arke (arke) 13:47:26 ive never seen anything good about it 13:47:28 --- join: futhin (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:47:30 i've tried mz and it was kind of painful to use, you see 13:47:35 nothing is wrong with C per se 13:47:39 but let me explain 13:47:41 I440r: C is semi-portable 13:47:46 you can't code in C and then code in forth 13:47:51 forth is semi portable 13:47:54 futhin, eh? 13:47:54 assembler is semi portable 13:48:05 C is more portable than assembler 13:48:14 because when you code in C, you think in C, and when you code in forth, you have to switch your thinking to forth 13:48:21 you can't code in forth while thinking in C 13:48:38 i suppose thinking in c is closer to scheme than in forth 13:48:57 no, it's very different 13:48:57 C is close to assembler in terms of how a program is structured 13:49:04 wossname: NO! 13:49:13 wossname: scheme is much closer to forth than C 13:49:17 wossname: any day 13:49:25 scheme is much more dynamic 13:49:31 than forth or C 13:49:38 and much more functional than either of them 13:49:58 functional as in minimizing side effects, not as in working well 13:50:02 well, i don't have any troubles yet switching between scheme and c 13:50:16 i suppose i'm not using enough black functional magic yet 13:50:26 if you code in scheme while thinking in scheme, you don't typically write well 13:50:33 MicroDan, ? 13:50:49 wossname, do you use set! a lot? 13:50:51 oops 13:50:59 I mean if you code in scheme while thinking in c 13:51:02 yeah 13:51:03 * MicroDan is stuipd 13:51:13 slava, i've never used set 13:51:15 if you code and think in scheme, you're fine 13:51:17 if you think in C, you'll write your scheme with lots of begin and set! forms 13:51:20 er, maybe once to make a circular list for kicks :) 13:51:46 wossname: go code in lisp then 13:51:51 fucking scheme is for lamers 13:52:01 i dare you to wrap your mind around lisp coding 13:52:03 funthin: could you back that up? 13:52:08 you definitely can't think in C while coding lisp 13:52:23 yeah you can; lisp is much more imperative 13:52:24 scheme is all OO as hell anyways 13:52:26 common lisp is a bit closer to C, due to its heavy use of OOP and imperitive 13:52:39 MicroDan: not really, its all recursive 13:52:40 scheme does not support OOP at all unless you extend it 13:52:47 futhin, scheme is more recursive than lisp 13:52:52 in lisp you use recursion relatively infrequently 13:52:54 "more recursive"? 13:53:00 well, microdan.. :) 13:53:05 all my friends that learned lisp in school are all "ooh i have to think backwards *wah* *wah*" and they're Java and C++ coders 13:53:09 lisp programs typically use loops and CLOS a lot 13:53:26 I can think of only two sane languages 13:53:30 (1) scheme (2) forth 13:53:35 lol 13:53:37 i've looked at lisp code and it makes me think of forth 13:53:37 i had the sensation of thinking 'backwards' when i started functional programming, but it's gone now 13:53:39 in reverse 13:53:39 I can think of lots of sane languages 13:53:40 thats all 13:53:55 futhin, forth doesn't usually use higher order functions like lisp code does 13:53:59 but they're sane in different ways 13:54:09 "higher-order"? 13:54:10 slava: "doesn't usually use" doesn't mean fucking shit 13:54:18 blame the coders not the language 13:54:24 and look at the whole lot of you 13:54:28 freaking hypocrites 13:54:31 arke: functions as arguments 13:54:31 what?! 13:54:39 oh, thanks. 13:54:47 futhin, hypocrites? 13:54:56 like you do with ' in forth 13:54:58 slava: functions as arguments is done all the time. Or at least in non-C forth code 13:55:08 arke, passing XTs? 13:55:13 slava: yessir 13:55:17 arke, I thought usually you would use immediate words taht compiled stuff 13:55:23 instead of ' FOO BAR, BAR FOO 13:55:25 --- topic: set to 'The Forth coding Channel (i.e. where you actually code in Forth)' by futhin 13:55:28 where BAR compiles the next word in some pattern 13:55:29 slava: depends oon the situation 13:55:44 it didn't say #forthcoding when i joined ! :o 13:55:46 arke, conditionals and loops, for example 13:55:58 wossname: well that was the unwritten implication 13:56:03 and now the channel has gotten all perverted 13:56:07 with evil people! 13:56:08 heh 13:56:11 what if one is just interested in forth?! :/ 13:56:20 whats the point? 13:56:29 programming languages are gay 13:56:41 and eventually they're gonna be obsolete 13:56:48 not until i'm dead 13:56:50 funthin: what iwll replace them? 13:56:59 the goal in life is not to fill your head with nonsense 13:57:06 or redundant info 13:57:14 AI computer scientists, microdan :l 13:57:26 wossname, coded in lisp! 13:57:31 of course! 13:57:36 MicroDan: we'll harness the power of evolution to evolve programs for our needs automatically 13:57:36 ... 13:57:46 and perhaps AI eventually 13:57:50 probably evolve AI 13:57:52 * slava evolves himself a car and a house 13:57:54 no need to build 'em 13:58:04 futhin, the goal of my life is to fill my head with nonsense 13:58:04 right 13:58:06 how will you specify to the evolution program what the program will be like? 13:58:13 my appetite for nonsense is unquenchable 13:58:22 using chuck moore's sound forth that fits an entire operating system in 30 bytes of code! 13:58:22 you need a language to specify the program... 13:58:22 wossname: ask your self, what would chuck moore do? 13:58:35 it doesn't do much, but it fits in 30 bytes 13:58:38 futhin, eat some funyuns? 13:59:12 --- topic: set to 'The Forth coding Channel (i.e. where you actually code in _Forth_)' by futhin 13:59:39 slava: what can it do? 13:59:41 futhin, i made retrobot die by feeding it a paradox! 13:59:42 this channel doesn't need miscellaneous people 13:59:49 i'm not interested in having miscellaneous people in this chan 13:59:52 just forth coders 13:59:56 futhin, so do YOU code in forth? 14:00:09 slava: of course 14:00:11 what do you code? 14:00:23 what if you're interested in Forth but you don't code in it? 14:00:27 i code bits and pieces 14:00:35 like what? 14:00:38 microdan, you are MISCELLANEOUS 14:00:38 or you don't code much 14:00:44 miscellaneous!! 14:00:46 ok, then I should leave 14:00:48 MicroDan: well you're a newbie so you may yet start coding in forth 14:00:48 --- part: MicroDan left #forth 14:00:51 lol 14:00:52 wossname, behold the MISCELLANITY! 14:00:56 :( 14:01:01 thanks a lot wossname 14:01:05 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 14:01:07 hardly my fault, futhin 14:01:10 --- kick: wossname was kicked by futhin (futhin) 14:01:14 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 14:01:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 14:01:34 --- mode: futhin set +t 14:01:34 --- mode: ChanServ set -t 14:01:37 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 14:01:38 what is +t? 14:01:41 --- quit: warp0b00 ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 14:01:45 prevents topic change 14:01:51 you just switched it on/off there 14:01:57 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:02:04 oh the chanserv 14:02:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +ntl 83 14:02:57 futhin, what forth do you use? 14:03:16 i will not qualify myself to you 14:03:20 instead you will qualify yourself to me 14:03:30 qualify? 14:03:45 explain 14:03:58 explain myself to you? 14:04:07 yes, that is a synonym 14:04:13 you could also check dictionary.com 14:04:14 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.103.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 14:04:49 what is there to explain? 14:04:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 14:05:03 --- kick: mur was kicked by futhin (join your friend wossname) 14:05:08 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 14:05:26 slava: do you code in forth? 14:05:28 what forth do you code in? 14:05:38 futhin, i code lots in factor, and bits and pieces in gforth 14:05:45 i don't care about factor 14:05:53 its practically forth 14:06:04 how so? 14:06:18 the syntax is identical 14:06:20 is it a forth implementation? 14:06:32 like a forth implementation with typing etc? 14:06:36 yes 14:06:48 what are you coding it in? 14:06:48 --- join: MicroDan (~SIMPLE@roc-66-66-13-211.rochester.rr.com) joined #forth 14:06:52 futhin, C 14:07:10 --- join: hefner (~hefner@pool-151-196-40-51.balt.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 14:07:12 MicroDan: i assume you're a newbie and that you are interested in learning forth so that you might code it .. am i right? 14:07:32 slava: why? 14:07:51 futhin, eventually it will be metacompiled, but that might take some years 14:07:54 funthin: I'm not sure whether I'll be coding in Forth or not 14:07:56 in the meantime C is ok 14:07:57 --- join: wossname (~sonarman@rn-v1w5a06.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 14:08:03 hello please teach me about forth :) 14:08:24 wtf is going on... jezus futhin take a fucking break 14:08:46 cant you fight your fights somewhere else. this channel is about forth. not "look i have ops i can kick you" 14:09:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 14:09:06 how does one change the title? 14:09:08 and put the fucking chan -t like its supposed to. 14:09:11 --- topic: set to 'The Forth coding Channel' by futhin 14:09:24 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 14:09:38 qFox: it was +t for most of the channel history, i set it -t a few months ago 14:09:50 against the wishes of kc5tja 14:10:09 many few months ago, and it has worked fine 14:10:11 kc5 doesn't come here anymore anyway 14:10:20 it has been -t for as long as i've been here 14:10:25 no because the noise to signal ratio is too high 14:10:32 and i dont really see a reason why you're setting it +t now 14:10:43 kc5tja is hanging out on an exclusive forth channel instead of hanging out on here 14:10:47 because of you guys 14:10:48 the only one to set the topic the past 6 hours or so, is you. 14:10:54 because of "you guys"? 14:10:57 you guys? 14:11:00 there's an exclusive forth channel? 14:11:01 there is no exclusive forth channel, futhin 14:11:11 we only have 27 people here... 14:11:13 there's two colorforth channels, #c4th and #c4th-ot 14:11:20 but they're hardly "exclusive" 14:11:30 futhin... seriously... get down man. 14:11:36 14:11 [Users #1xforth] 14:11:36 14:11 [@arke ] [@Herkamire] [@oninoshiko] [@Sanko] 14:11:36 14:11 [@futhin] [@kc5tja ] [@rj_cf ] 14:11:41 kc5 is over reacting 14:11:43 BIOG TIME 14:11:50 no I440r 14:11:55 if he doesnt want to come in here thats fine. if he wants to THATS fine too 14:11:59 I440r, its BIOG time 14:12:11 I440r, are you done with isforth/fbsd? 14:12:18 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-048.nyc-tc03a.FCC.NET) joined #forth 14:12:19 I440r, because your account on my b0x still exists, except i closed the fw recently 14:12:20 slava no - i have to fix ONE thing 14:12:25 if you want it open again i can do it 14:12:36 i also dont have the sources to it here, they were on my svn server and the drive died 14:12:36 i just need your ip 14:12:40 i have the sources 14:12:43 should i post them? 14:12:44 good 14:12:51 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@67.113.235.6) joined #forth 14:12:55 just hold onto them :) 14:12:57 k 14:13:00 im working on the svn server right now 14:13:01 what do you have to fix? 14:13:03 the timezone stuff? 14:13:15 yea. that needs to be fixed here AND there 14:13:15 futhin> and you kicked mur because? 14:13:31 MicroDan, I440r's isforth is good for learning forth 14:14:25 mur got kicked??? what for? 14:14:37 nothing he said in here for the past 6 hours... 14:14:39 <-- futhin has kicked mur from #forth (join your friend wossname) 14:14:40 --- part: hefner left #forth 14:14:50 since he hasnt SPOKEN HERE in that time, or longer 14:14:56 which is why i'm asking. 14:15:11 getting sick n tired of these fucking fights. 14:15:15 i like to keep the channel free of lurkers/idlers 14:15:17 slava: Ok, I'll dl it when I get my linux box working again 14:15:21 like fucking hell you do 14:15:25 what do you care 14:15:29 that's no reason to kick him off 14:16:16 futhin, why? 14:16:34 see, the thing is futhin 14:16:35 why shoudl anybody but trolls be kicked off? 14:16:42 you kicked wossname for whatever reason 14:16:54 and then you kicked mur, wiht the msg to join wossname 14:17:01 so somehow, that kick, for you, was connected 14:17:34 me and mur represent the darkside of irc :/ 14:17:43 * TheBlueWizard hmms re: the recent happenings on #forth, and doesn't like the look of it 14:17:45 so please do explain. we are eagerly awaiting that log where he seriously insulted you more then i ever have. 14:20:12 funthin: why should we kick off miscelanious people? 14:23:54 we shouldnt 14:24:16 i never wanted #forth to be anal about anything :( 14:24:41 its getting pretty anal lately... 14:25:11 agreed....only really anal ones such as trolls should be kicked off (and possibly banned too) 14:25:27 trolling isnt anal, its annoying and counter productive 14:25:43 if anyone wants to see a channel that's about the same general topics of this, but open minded on the edge of irrelavence, go to #concatenative 14:26:07 now see, thats just spam. 14:26:31 sorry 14:26:49 * MicroDan retracts what he said 14:27:09 it's not spam 14:27:36 I don't think it is a spam either 14:27:44 brb 14:28:41 well. i read back the conversations that lead to here.... i can only conclude that futhin is on a powertrip this evening. 14:29:47 and seeing his idle time, doesnt seem to dare to answer for himself 14:30:04 but i guess "he doesnt need to". bah. 14:30:59 --- join: robert (~purple@c-675a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 14:31:11 hi robert 14:31:29 Hi slava 14:31:33 * robert is coding Java. 14:31:41 robert, lol 14:31:43 oh you better run before futhin kicks you then 14:31:52 robert hiya 14:32:03 I can create tons of objects, and make programs that are too slow to run on an 1GHz computer! 14:32:09 AND NOBODY CAN STOP ME 14:32:14 * robert laughs like a madman 14:32:19 TheBlueWizard hello. 14:32:28 ehm, and whats the challenge in that? ;) 14:32:36 * TheBlueWizard pulls the plug on that 1GHz computer....there...fixed :) 14:32:40 robert, now making a fast program is the challenge 14:33:03 slava: Yeah. So I stick to other languages ;) 14:37:32 they advertise as java's vm being fast, but some guy compared forth code and java code and determined the java vm to be 10 times slower. so coding in java means you have to write programs 10x faster than forth programs. 14:37:44 but thats possible with all the wonderful java tools that are provided.. right? 14:37:45 ;) 14:38:06 futhin, got a link for this comparison? 14:38:22 no, was websurfing the other day 14:38:34 what's the fastest free forth? 14:38:49 gforth is ok but its not blazing from my limited tests, is there anything faster? 14:38:51 probably bigforth 14:38:57 is bigforth maintained? 14:39:06 definitely faster than gforth, i don't know if it's the fastest (might be) 14:40:01 it hasn't been updated for a year, but it hasn't been abadnoned 14:40:04 slava: Only forths for huge, complex and bloated architectures count, right? 14:40:18 robert, well, are the lean/mean architectures as fast as x86? 14:40:26 Hm? 14:40:47 well, i guess with a simple CPU, its easier to write a fast forth 14:40:54 x25 ;) 14:40:55 but i was referring to x86, since i don't have access to anything else 14:41:22 futhin> i for one dont forget these kind of actions. you can ignore everyone, and pretend like everyone likes you, but sooner or later you'll figure out that doesnt quite work >:( 14:41:45 futhin, what's the fastest x86 forth? 14:41:54 he doesn't know 14:42:40 you're still only considering free ones, right? because if not, then there's the "big three:" swiftforth, vfx forth, and eforth, all of which are very fast 14:42:53 free ones, yes 14:42:59 but swiftforth is fast, yes :) 14:43:09 Bleh. 14:43:18 i would say it's.... swift. 14:43:25 This will be my next project, then. 14:43:33 been searching for the link.. no luck 14:43:35 making a fast forth? 14:43:44 robert: a 2500-line optimizer in ASM? 14:44:18 MicroDan: LittleDan? 14:44:25 Sonarman: Something like that. 14:44:34 there was a thread on clf some weeks ago, where S.Pelc posted updated benchmarks. Somebody also remarked, that separating variable storage from program storage made a huge difference in execution speed. 14:44:34 futhin: http://www.ultratechnology.com/fd1103.htm 14:44:41 robert: that's me 14:45:42 isn't eforth free? 14:45:44 --- quit: ows (Connection timed out) 14:46:06 swsch_, yes it does, because when you write to the same page that has code, the l1 cache has to be flushed 14:46:20 Sonarman: yeah thats the link 14:46:33 futhin: if you can convince Marcel Hendrix to give it to you for free, which isn't easy 14:46:36 --- join: ows (~ows@a81-84-114-211.netcabo.pt) joined #forth 14:47:34 i was thinking of e-forth, the one by dr. ting 14:47:57 does it do the same level of optimization as,eg, gcc 14:47:59 ? 14:48:03 oh, sorry 14:48:06 i mean iforth 14:48:20 meant 14:48:29 stupid letters of the alphabet :) 14:48:39 yeah alphabet sux 14:48:51 hear that, robert? :) 14:48:52 lets talk in 32 base 14:49:06 16 base (aka hex) is for lamers 14:50:01 * qFox rolls eyes 14:50:08 * robert rolls futhin 14:50:16 * futhin rolls a doobie 14:50:23 Sonarman: Hear what? 14:50:36 iforth costs money 14:50:45 you can get it for free if you ask him nicely 14:50:48 and say you're a student 14:51:00 or something like that 14:53:13 robert: nevermind :) 14:53:33 --- quit: swsch_ ("Leaving") 14:53:34 are there any forths whose generated code is as fast as gcc's? 14:56:33 i think those three get pretty close 14:56:55 but no free ones? *sigh* 14:57:19 slava, i'm trying to find the pages that benchmarked all the languages.. 14:57:23 well, bigforth isn't too bad i don't think 14:57:29 futhin: the Shootout? 14:57:55 scalar Java code that just does integer/FP math and logic, and allocates no objects, is about as fast as what gcc outputs 14:58:09 when you start doing bloated libraries, you can run into trouble' 15:02:04 Clay's Conclusion: 15:02:04 Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster. 15:02:07 lol 15:02:09 lol 15:02:45 Hah :) 15:02:47 brilliant 15:03:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 15:03:44 --- mode: futhin set -b *!*@68.38.221.99 15:03:55 --- mode: futhin set -b *!*Baxter@207.140.211.* 15:04:01 --- mode: futhin set -b AlonzoTG*!*@* 15:04:10 --- mode: futhin set -b falala*!*@* 15:04:20 --- mode: futhin set -o arke 15:04:25 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 15:04:27 no don't unban alonzotg 15:04:35 Heh. 15:05:12 well he probably thinks hes still banned 15:05:19 so if he comes by, its like a christmas present! 15:05:21 haha, i hope falala joins again 15:05:23 that'll be hilarious 15:07:47 slava: your threatening him with "hacking" was classic 15:08:06 Sonarman, he had a ton of suspect ports open :) 15:08:09 whats interesting is Chuck Moore is getting away from math operations 15:08:13 and more into i/o stuff 15:08:22 cuz math operations aren't a significant part of computing 15:08:24 on the basis that most programs don't do math, but I/O? 15:08:39 yeah most of what computers do is move bytes around 15:08:42 futhin: ssh doesn't do any math at all! 15:08:43 right 15:08:45 onto the screen, across the internet, etc 15:08:56 robert: it probably does a little bit of math heh 15:09:11 well, it depends on the program, but in terms of lines of code, most of the program won't be math 15:09:21 in terms of execution though, the math might very well be a hotspot 15:09:38 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 15:10:05 that doesn't happen that often.. 15:10:14 hell loops take up more processing than math heh 15:10:21 ever tried running ssh on a 486? 15:10:26 Eh, math is NOT "loops"? 15:10:29 there's a noticable lag in the crypto 15:10:39 slava: I have. ; 15:11:01 * robert looks proud to have used obsolete hardware with SSH 15:11:01 futhin, i think address calculation is substantial 15:11:04 slava, my friend ree was using a 486 laptop, using ssh in dos and he said it ran great 15:11:06 sa well as incrementing/decrementing loop coutners 15:11:20 just last month 15:11:21 futhin, because in dos it gets 100% cpu time. just typing in an ssh term on a slow comp takes noticable cpu time 15:11:41 consider accessing an array 15:11:44 you have to multiply and add 15:12:19 and if you're accessing the array in a loop, a good compiler will reduce this to just incrementing the loop coutner by 4 15:14:36 haha, googling for 25x brings up ads by ebay to buy 25x ;) 15:16:47 slava: yes you keep * and + and some of the other operators for the forthchip 15:16:53 but you also drop some of the operators 15:17:06 which ones? 15:17:15 can't remember which ones chuck moore mentioned 15:17:49 is chuck moore interested in software for people who are not computer literate? 15:18:18 Since he dislikes Windows, probably not. 15:18:18 ? 15:19:03 he is interested in a programming language for people who are not computer literate 15:19:16 these people by definition don't want to program 15:19:22 a simple language with minimal interface between the computer and man 15:19:34 with no multiplicity of layers and apis to learn 15:19:37 programming != inputting commands to an UI 15:19:51 don't quibble semantics 15:20:13 an end user doesn't have to learn APIs 15:20:19 those that are not computer literate can easily become computer literate if they discover a friendly os/language/etc 15:20:53 no, but an end user has to deal with the crappy bloated, crash-prone, information-losing apps that they use today 15:21:04 anyways i digress 15:34:41 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h229n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 15:37:00 hi Frek 15:37:06 hi futhin 15:37:10 God kväll 15:37:25 god natt robert :) 15:37:31 Hehe 15:37:34 Skall du lägga dig? 15:37:44 nä men det är mer natt än kväll :P 15:37:48 Ah, heh 15:37:58 please speak english in chan 15:38:05 futhin: no problem sir 15:38:17 futhin: Jawohl, mein Herr! 15:38:21 say a language and I'll speak it 15:38:36 robert: use priv msg to speak in alternate languages. feel free to gibber at me in priv msg 15:39:09 futhin: Jes. 15:41:04 : english_officially ( -- ) ; 15:41:33 : forth-doesn't-use-underscore! ( -- ) ; 15:41:59 I do however :) 15:42:12 Traitor. 15:42:15 heh 15:45:48 : forthdoesn'tusehyphenseitherandnotevenstackcommentstoo ; 15:47:26 that's contradicting :P 15:49:19 how so? 15:49:40 oh 15:49:44 because you use a hyphen to describe it :P 15:49:53 a hyhpen is - 15:49:57 right 15:50:17 I confused it with apostrophe :) 15:50:25 which ' isn't really either 15:50:29 but what the hell 15:50:55 yeah i forget what ' is called 15:51:50 tick? 15:52:29 yeah 15:53:17 Frek: tho the usage is an apostrophe in the "don't" case, so guess ya can call it an apostrophe :P 15:53:34 okay 15:53:50 but an apostrophe is ´ to be strict 15:54:01 futhin, ever used any forth OOP extensions? 15:54:44 slava: nah i don't care for the class-based oop stuff. but the delegation/prototypical oop stuff seems interesting as its based on message passing and thats definitely something forth does 15:55:02 theres a forth in mac that impelements the prototypical oop thing 15:55:07 mops? 15:55:16 can't remember the name 15:56:17 yes mops does OOP 15:56:22 (and it's mac) 15:56:30 kevo 15:56:46 classless oop is the way to go for forth 15:56:49 there's a OOP package for ANSForth available on the mops pages too 15:56:50 if ya want oop at all 15:57:16 kevo is the mac forth that does classless forth 15:57:18 er 15:57:20 ok 15:57:21 classless oop 15:57:54 http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?OoVsFunctional 15:57:56 :P 15:58:00 kivo was last updated in 1993? 15:58:11 both paradigms should be supported by a language in some form 15:58:44 slava: java, c++, etc don't support prototypical oop at all 15:58:49 right 16:02:16 slava: http://web.media.mit.edu/~lieber/Lieberary/OOP/Delegation/Delegation.html 16:02:21 kc5tja told me about this 16:02:24 cool stuff 16:34:44 where's kc5tja anyway ? 16:37:39 he is not hanging out on #forth anymore because of certain individuals 16:38:20 oh 16:39:01 where did that forth bot go btw ? 16:39:04 plus he's really busy 16:39:10 I see 16:39:30 gets too distracted explaining things to everyone on #forth and then getting into an argument with some of the less rational people on #forth 16:39:34 heh 16:39:52 ok 16:40:46 sleeping robert ? 16:41:08 Nej^W no 16:41:11 ok 16:41:13 just checking 16:42:25 :) 16:43:59 =) 16:44:43 robert, clearly you haven't read THE because you'd know that the keystroke cost of 'Nej^w no' is 6 keystrokes longer than 'no' 16:45:17 Your comment was much longer than 6 keystrokes, so I WIN ANYWAY. ;) 16:45:17 THE ? 16:45:22 oh but wait, i just wasted a whole bunch of keystrokes ;) 16:45:23 yeah 16:45:34 but you were thinking about it longer than me! 16:45:35 :P 16:45:45 Frek: The Humane Interface, by Jef Raskin 16:45:47 --- nick: Frek -> fca 16:45:57 futhin: ah heh 16:45:57 a cool book 16:46:04 THE is software 16:46:06 THI is the book 16:46:11 and at least 4-5 ppl have read it 16:46:13 in this chan 16:46:17 hey Herkamire 16:46:23 Herkamire: wasn't being exact :P 16:46:24 Jef Raskin is obsoleted though :P 16:46:33 fca: by what? 16:46:38 fca: by what? 16:46:44 copycatS? 16:46:52 Jef Raskin 2, the cyborg clone of Jef Raskin that lives in their basement 16:46:53 has jef raskin produced any software? 16:46:54 by the fact he don't work on MacOS anylonger :) 16:46:56 fca: Jef Raskin created the copycat 16:47:03 slava: he worked on the MacOS for along tie 16:47:05 time 16:47:06 no, canoncat 16:47:07 even 16:47:07 slava: yes, THE 16:47:08 not copycat 16:47:20 i thought the was a proof of concept? 16:47:27 yup slava 16:47:59 anyways, jef raskin in his book, introduces the notion that we should design an interface based on principles of cognetics.. i.e. we should develop an interface scientifically, and then he gets us started on how to do that 16:48:03 i think thats the main thing about the book 16:49:02 if and when we ever have more humane interfaces, jef raskin might be the father of all that, even tho he wasn't the father of cognetics :P 16:49:02 yeah, and its a well written book 16:49:15 ianp: yeah, i like how he's very unambiguous :) 16:49:43 yeah I like how he describes things very concretely, in terms of "loci" 16:50:08 good book 16:50:09 you can really tell with the Mac OS examples he gives 16:50:19 a good example is the menu bar in Mac OS 16:50:28 and how it has 'infinite height' or whatever 16:50:28 --- quit: hyrax (Remote closed the connection) 16:50:35 I didn't agree with all of his stuff about key efficiency 16:50:37 IE you throw your mouse to the top of thescreen and you're there 16:50:40 --- join: hyrax (~das@adsl-64-219-100-33.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:50:46 Like the start button on classic Windows 16:50:49 Herkamire: what aspect? 16:50:58 you throw your mouse button to the bottom fo the screen - sorry! need ot move it up 10 pixels :) 16:51:05 futhin: how the key effeciency depended on the number of keys on the keyboard 16:51:14 * fca snickers at the debate he started 16:51:48 I think typing "hello" is just as easy/efficient no matter how many F-keys there are 16:51:59 or whether or not there is a number pad 16:52:01 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:52:25 Herkamire: question is how simple it is to type hello again 16:52:40 hello hello 16:52:40 Herkamire: oh yeah i agree, hte probaliity stuff was a little iffy 16:53:08 hello then press f3 for example 16:53:15 he made a very good point that we should consider it from a more scientific, mathematic, and psychological perspective 16:53:18 basing efficiency on probability of hitting the keys? heh 16:53:18 --- join: wossname (~sonarman@129.97.235.26) joined #forth 16:53:34 well 16:53:36 actually thats fine 16:53:42 but basing probablity off the number of keys isn't 16:53:51 given, it's much more complex to take into account what keys and key combos are easier to type 16:54:04 for example on dvorak, it's very very easy to type "the" 16:54:14 maybe we can compare the most common letters used 16:54:25 and then compare the ease it is to hit those letters 16:54:29 probably easier than typing "`" 16:54:31 like etasiop.... 16:54:42 funny, it's very easy to type on qwerty *ducks* 16:54:48 compare that to the locations they are, the distance from your fingers 16:54:51 how is it on dvorak? 16:55:28 ianp: type what? 16:55:29 ianp: in dvorak many of the most common words are soooo easy to type, you've finished typing them before you realized, and you're thinking "woah.. i never remembered it being this easy" 16:55:40 hi herk 16:55:48 hi OrngeTide :) 16:55:58 nice 16:56:37 you can type "this that and the other" on the home row in dvorak :) 16:57:09 mmm... except the r 16:59:08 this that and the othe 16:59:12 thats acceptable to me ;) 16:59:13 i think you can type papaya entirely on the home row. 16:59:27 this that and papaya 16:59:51 if only we had 26 keys on the home row. 17:00:09 herk, i'm bugging svfig people to put the videos up. 17:00:25 so you can listen to the 5 sentences jeff fox had to say about herkforth. :) 17:01:06 what does he say? 17:01:12 i forget. 17:01:39 mostly says it's done by herkamire, and it is for macs. and then describes some specifics about it. 17:01:51 i'm not even sure if it was correct since i haven't even used herkforth yet:P 17:03:10 OrngeTide: cool 17:04:02 OrngeTide: you can now run herkforth on x86 with the help of the emulator qemu. 17:04:20 neat:) 17:04:27 i have a mac though. so i have no excuses 17:04:44 OrngeTide: you running linux on it? 17:09:11 yea. 17:09:39 although linux is unhappy on it right now. i can't compile x11, it segfaults. and when i build gcc it refuses to compile claiming it need xlib. (wtf?) 17:11:47 heh 17:12:05 anytime i run mplayer on my comp (i'm in linux) it makes the whole darn thing freeze 17:12:11 have to hit the reboot button 17:12:23 i need switch to a distro that has binaries. or make gentoo use a cross compiler. my 500mhz ibook is not really ideal for compiling a gigabyte worth of code 17:12:44 futhin, mplayer is funny like that. i've had luck just getting cvs snapshot releases and using that 17:13:57 maybe i should write a macos clone in forth on the openfirmware on my mac. 17:14:00 that would be neat. 17:14:48 OrngeTide: well mplayer complains about some of my config/hardware, but i try to ignore it :P 17:14:57 but i can't anymore 17:14:59 after 10 crashes 17:15:08 looking at time-critical pron! 17:15:21 I didn't mind compiling stuff too much with gentoo on my dual 450Mhz G4 17:15:36 lucky 17:16:55 gcc and X are overnighters though 17:16:59 mainly i run linux on my mac becuase osx doesn't support the usb serial adapter I have. also i don't know of a terminal program for osx. but I suppose minicom wouldn't be too hard to port 17:17:29 don't know of a terminal app? 17:17:37 nope? 17:17:48 have you looked in /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app 17:18:12 uh. that's the xterm-like thing. 17:18:16 gentoo is lame 17:18:24 atleast on ppc 17:18:49 fca, gentoo is the best on ppc. because many other distros are two steps behind x86 distros on the software it supports 17:18:52 fca: aren't you a little sourpuss 17:19:08 I just say yellowdog linux 17:19:22 gentoo is a good choice if you don't mind compiling everything and you want very recent and unstable versions of software packages. 17:19:31 I've used both yellowdog and gentoo on ppc, and in my experience gentoo is far far far better 17:19:32 yellowdog is terrible 17:19:38 bs 17:19:50 I've used them both for about a year 17:19:52 it didn't work very well for me at all. 17:19:58 gentoo is just lame, www.funroll-loops.org 17:20:05 debian on ppc is a million times better than YDL 17:20:10 i just run an x86 emulator ontop of ppc and then install archlinux 17:20:22 i mean my mac g4 has so much speed its worth it 17:20:23 yea. funrool-loops.org represents all gentoo users. 17:20:24 OrngeTide: yeah right... 17:20:34 OrngeTide: no but it represents the vast majority 17:20:39 archlinux is pretty nice:) 17:20:48 i wouldn't mind crux on ppc. 17:21:02 fca, i don't think it represent herk or me. 17:21:03 gentoo is just lame; recompiling everything is just a waste of time on the ppc, considering how poor fsf gcc are 17:21:13 so it doesn't represent a vast majority of the gentoo users you actually associate with:) 17:21:47 fca, i don't recompile for optimizations. i recompile because some new patch came out that i need. 17:22:17 and i don't like to rely on YDL, Redhat, Debian, etc to put out a new version ASAP 17:22:25 OrngeTide: and what stops you from doing that on other linux distributions ? 17:22:46 i used to run slackware, and just download and ./configure everything myself. but that can be a lot of work 17:22:56 fca, i don't want to figure out how to compile my own packages. 17:22:58 right whatever 17:23:23 since every 6th open source project has special compilation instructions that I don't read. 17:23:53 ever try to install mplayer by hand? it's annoying. 17:24:37 anyways. i shouldn't turn #forth into a distro war. that would be bad. 17:24:47 * OrngeTide goes to hunt up some dinner. 17:24:48 Hehe 17:25:50 I don't run gentoo for speed 17:26:04 I run it so I can have my software installed the way I want it 17:26:06 yea. if you wanted speed you'd buy a faster computer. :) 17:26:12 with all the "development files" 17:26:27 I run Debian because I hate progress. 17:26:28 archlinux makes it real easy to compile everything 17:26:35 so archlinux is like gentoo, debian, slackware all in one 17:26:36 robert: hehe 17:26:36 yea. i like arch a lot too 17:26:37 That's why I'm in #forth, too. 17:26:52 no way man 17:26:52 but i like arch for all the same reasons as gentoo. :) 17:26:59 #forthers don't run debian 17:27:00 but arch's package management is a billion times faster:) 17:27:42 freebsd owns you all. 17:27:55 i prefer netbsd over freebsd 17:28:05 since i'm not a big x86 fan 17:28:30 also freebsd doesn't run on my sparcs. and i'm too poor to buy an ultrasparc. 17:29:53 netbsd doesn't support my 3d gfx card 17:30:11 * Herkamire waves a flag 17:30:16 Go herkforthos! 17:30:23 slava, that's what you get for trying to do graphics :) 17:30:25 Hehe. :) 17:30:27 Herkamire, you implemented something cool? 17:30:37 OrngeTide: you don't need X for herkforth 17:30:44 netbsd supports my serial port. :) 17:30:58 slava: yeah, it's called herkforth 17:31:18 Herkamire, yea. but i need X anyways because I can't read tiny fonts. 17:31:34 and 1024x768 framebuffer console is tiny. 17:31:49 aren't the fonts 10x20? 17:31:55 also i can't run 'links' to download much. 17:32:01 no. they are like 8x16 or something 17:32:13 pc-vga fonts, not OF fonts 17:32:46 well i'm going to get some food. adios. 17:33:41 looks like the kernel has an option for a 12x22 font 17:34:19 yea. it doesn't seem to be supported by aty128 driver 17:34:37 ahh. that sucks 17:34:52 it did say it wasn't supported on all drivers 17:35:45 I like this 10x20 phont 17:35:48 font 17:36:25 I thought it was the same as what I get in the console 17:36:29 but maybe not. I don't use the console 17:36:37 i think there is a 4x6 font in there too :) 17:36:51 wow 17:37:22 I see 6x11 17:37:30 anyway, back to coding herkforth 17:38:58 I'm working on saving a block at the begining of the disk that says where the most recent save is 17:46:23 --- quit: wincent (Remote closed the connection) 18:00:26 --- join: Mujin (~Mujin@adsl-64-109-167-56.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #forth 18:04:58 Hi 18:06:25 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:27:54 what the hell you still ain't sleeping robert ? 18:49:51 --- quit: Herkamire ("booting herkforth") 18:50:25 --- part: MicroDan left #forth 19:01:18 --- part: Mujin left #forth 19:02:02 hrm.. apparently there is a version of crux for ppc. i think i'll install it. :) 19:02:40 and then one day, far into the future, i will actually try herkforth. :P 19:03:45 crux? 19:04:01 yea. its some linux distro. 19:04:25 it boots super fast. since it doesn't have any fluff. 19:04:26 ah, cruxppc.sunsite.dk ? 19:04:29 yup 19:04:35 --- quit: fca (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:04:59 i used it on x86. it was neat. but at the time there wasn't any packages for it. so you had to subscribe to other people's package repositories to do anything 19:05:52 hmm. 19:06:53 does it do dependency stuff? 19:06:58 yup 19:07:38 it's has some tools that work kinda like freebsd ports or gentoo emerge. 19:08:07 the tools basically solve depedencies and download packages and build them into slackware-like tar.gz packages. then you install the tar.gz 19:08:17 cool. 19:08:33 although the tool is written in C++ .. which seems insane to me. 19:08:53 I _have_ seen good C++ ... but not often. 19:09:18 well a basic system tool shouldn't require special libaries. imo. 19:09:55 special libraries? 19:09:55 and libstdc++ has a tendency to change suddenly and without warning. 19:10:12 it's a minor gripe really. 19:10:16 ah. 19:11:05 i would prefer it if the package tool was statically linked or something. and functional enough to reinstall the entire system even if everything else is broken. (i don't even want it to rely on the shell) 19:11:15 yeah, that would be nice. 19:11:24 like in a pinch if you could boot with init=/sbin/sometool .. i would be pleased 19:12:19 I'm starting to consider looking around for something other than gentoo. 19:13:01 arch is nice. but i think it's x86 only. 19:13:13 yeah, I just looked at their website. 19:13:30 crux looks to be better than it was a year ago. so i'm downloading that right now. 19:13:34 I do mostly like gentoo. It works in a way that makes sense to me. 19:13:42 But it just feels...a bit crufty. 19:13:56 And, more importantly, Python is so damned slow. 19:13:58 *nod* gentoo produces a pretty ordinary system. 19:14:02 oh god yes it is slow 19:14:15 I have a couple of shell scripts to grep through the portage directory. 19:14:17 bye all (note the reversion back to English...cuz I don't have chanop) 19:14:24 python is one of the slowest languages on earth 19:14:28 because it's several times faster than waiting for emerge 19:14:31 TheBlueWizard, english? 19:14:56 I used to say "all bye" Forth style.... 19:15:13 tathi, yea. i have a one-liner find,xargs grep that I use to find packages too 19:15:31 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 19:15:33 TheBlueWizard, hehe. 19:15:49 just BYE is good enough. forht is user friendly because of BYE :) 19:15:54 :) 19:17:45 And...I wish it would keep the ebuild scripts for the versions that I have currently installed. 19:18:16 i agree. 19:18:20 oops. i gotta go. 19:18:31 laters, then. 19:43:56 --- quit: tathi ("bed") 20:03:33 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 20:41:14 --- quit: slava ("Leaving") 20:55:20 --- quit: ows ("Client Exiting") 20:59:02 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool104-73.nas52.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 21:27:09 --- join: wincent (~wincent@void-109.pmnet.uni-oldenburg.de) joined #forth 22:22:53 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed") 22:34:30 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 22:45:49 --- join: Serg_penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 23:21:09 --- quit: warpzero ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 23:45:27 --- join: Raystm2 (~vircuser@adsl-69-149-56-132.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 23:51:18 hey Raystm2 23:51:26 hi futhin 23:51:33 heh 23:52:02 futhin how have you been my friend ? 23:52:07 good 23:52:19 Raystm2: noticed you came on at like 3 am last night 23:52:32 sad thing was.. i was awake but too tired to say hi 23:52:32 heh 23:55:16 hehe 23:56:11 I was in the middle of configureing the chat and ignoring anyway. I've rebuild all the software on the machine from scratch. Still got some to go but I'm takeing a break. 23:59:28 futhin: thursday rj_cf and I will be posting an example set to the #c4th log about arrays. We're supposed to get together before then to come up with the examples. 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.11.21