00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.10.29
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02:02:58 <ASau> Dobry den!
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02:06:38 <Raystm2> hello all :)
02:07:41 <paintcan> hi ray
02:09:35 <Raystm2> hi paintcan how are you today?
02:10:29 <paintcan> feeling fine although a bit paranoid from being awake too long :)
02:10:35 <paintcan> how are you doing
02:13:21 <Raystm2> I'm tired too. was up for two days when my chess program was run by two programmers that I respect. then slept for 3-or 4 hours and up again for 20 now . whew!
02:25:19 <paintcan> two days, geeze
02:25:31 <paintcan> you had to stay up for the entire runtime? :p
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02:41:28 <Raystm2> no -- wass, I was so excited that a couple real programmers congradulated me and complimented me on colorforthChess that I just was -- for want of a better word -- high :) ykwim?
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02:43:11 <Raystm2> sorry it's woss not wass :)
02:44:53 <paintcan> ;o
02:45:21 <paintcan> ikwym 8)
02:49:45 <Raystm2> ah, maybe you don't, I didn't mean I get high. 
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02:50:44 <paintcan> i understand dude it is cool :)
02:50:52 <Raystm2> k
02:51:21 <Raystm2> are you working on anything lately?
02:51:29 <ASau> Guten Tag, mur!
02:51:43 <paintcan> not much besides schoolwork
02:51:59 <Raystm2> Vie Gahts (sp?) ASau
02:52:18 <Raystm2> sorry my langs are not good . :)
02:52:42 <Raystm2> How are you ASau. :)
02:52:59 <ASau> You must mean "wie gehts"? Danke, shoen.
02:53:10 <Raystm2> I think I was trying to say "How goes it" yeah like you said :)
02:53:32 <Raystm2> wie gehts then
02:53:38 <Raystm2> thank you :)
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03:05:32 <Raystm2> ASau : I think mur's bot keeps signing on and then the connect keeps timing out. I don't think he's really there :)
03:06:01 <Raystm2> Seems to happen alot to mur. and some others too, I've noticed.
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03:31:54 <ASau> Raystm2, I know.
03:32:38 <ASau> It's afternoon there, he might be on line.
03:33:10 <ASau> Labas ritas, tathi!
03:33:45 <Robert> Privet, ASau 
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07:27:52 <I440r_> x /quit brb
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08:14:46 <Robert> Hoi
08:14:53 <Robert> Oooh, a Windows user
08:14:55 * Robert pets
08:14:57 <Robert> Want to try something?
08:22:02 <qFox> oh dear.... will it kill my windows?
08:22:07 <Robert> I hope not!
08:22:13 <qFox> i just know its gonna hurt him :(
08:22:15 <Robert> I ran it in win98 and MS-DOS 6.22
08:22:23 <Robert> Worked fine in both.
08:22:27 <Robert> http://robos.org/tforth/
08:22:33 <qFox> well... fine. let the pain begin!
08:22:33 <Robert> Check the ant demo
08:22:41 <qFox> okay
08:22:50 <qFox> so... you created a windows app? ;)
08:23:04 <Robert> DOS, technically.
08:23:22 <Robert> And mind you, I used to be a sinner like yourself, until just a few years ago when I saw the light.
08:23:28 <qFox> xp isnt very polite against dos...
08:23:34 <qFox> haw.
08:23:56 <Robert> If it can't run tforth it sucks.
08:24:07 <Robert> And even more, YOU SUCK, THE ENTIRE ESTABLISHMENT SUCKS
08:24:13 * Robert jumps out the window
08:25:00 <qFox> impressive.
08:25:18 <Robert> The ants or my suicide?
08:25:18 <qFox> no really. i meant that.
08:25:23 <qFox> both, obviously
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08:25:51 <Robert> :D
08:25:56 <qFox> and it works fine in xp. dont know whether the speed is
08:26:13 <qFox> but something graphical was doing something :p
08:27:17 <Robert> Hehe
08:27:27 <Robert> If it looked like a nebula of some sort, it worked.
08:28:32 <qFox> it was as if somebody was using a spraycan and spray from one side to another of the screen, in green no less
08:28:52 <qFox> not slow, but slow enough to follow
08:29:05 <Robert> :)
08:29:13 <Robert> It's an ant walking around, stupid!
08:29:23 <qFox> uh. yeah.
08:29:59 <Robert> Check oldant if you want.
08:30:08 <Robert> fload demo\oldant.f
08:30:10 <Robert> oldant run
08:30:23 <Robert> One-color version
08:30:44 <qFox> whats this char? Robert ™stling
08:30:52 <qFox> IM?
08:31:34 <Robert> &ouml;
08:31:40 <qFox> ... but what is it?
08:31:42 <Robert> And IM?
08:31:52 <Robert> What is what?
08:31:52 <qFox> it looks like IM small upper
08:32:06 <qFox> like TM
08:32:08 <qFox> but IM
08:32:10 <Robert> Heh
08:32:12 <Robert> No...
08:32:16 <qFox> then what
08:32:23 <Robert> It's how DOS encodes oe
08:32:29 <qFox> oh right
08:32:38 <qFox> silly swedez
08:33:21 <Robert> XD
08:33:24 <Robert> Silly XP users.
08:34:31 <qFox> not sure whether i'll continue on that editor. think i'm missing too much knowledge to be able to pull it off
08:34:49 <qFox> the scrollbar in the middle, and two additional collumns that need scrolling
08:34:53 <qFox> etc etc
08:35:14 <qFox> not even sure whether windows can do it, with its default tools :p
08:37:43 <Robert> Hehe.
08:37:46 <Robert> You can do it!
08:37:56 <qFox> doubtfull :\
08:38:06 <Robert> Bah, lies.
08:38:24 <Robert> brb, food
08:52:29 <qFox> why can you do anything visualy
08:52:36 <qFox> except the main window
08:52:37 <qFox> :s
08:52:46 <qFox> stupid visual studio
08:53:44 <Robert> Use Delphi!
08:53:46 <Robert> Pascal <333
08:54:28 <qFox> :p
08:54:35 <qFox> i cant code at all in delphi
08:54:45 <qFox> and i mean, not even hello world
08:54:48 <Robert> :(
08:54:55 <Robert> I used to do a lot in Deplhi
08:55:28 <qFox> i just want to be able to make the frontend with _just_ my mouse :(
08:56:27 <Robert> Write a visual Forth++
08:58:10 <qFox> :(
08:58:14 <Robert> :)
08:58:19 <qFox> if i could do that, i could do this.
08:58:24 <qFox> and would.
08:58:28 <Robert> Aww
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09:06:44 <qFox> guess i'll abuse msdn a bit...
09:07:24 <Robert> :D
09:13:44 <ASau> Does anyone know if Gforth or PFE or any other (which?) ANTI-Forth has ".rc" file support?
09:14:01 <ASau> At least I can't see it in Gforth.
09:14:20 <ASau> Maybe, I'm searching wrong?
09:41:43 <qFox> nah forget it. i cant hack this. i cant even start from an example and mofify it :(
09:43:06 <Robert> qFox: :/
09:43:17 <Robert> Do it in text mode
09:57:17 <qFox> yeah maybe
09:57:22 <qFox> brb, i think i need to reboot
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10:01:36 <qFox> so much for msn
10:01:45 <Robert> Hm?
10:02:00 <qFox> not working for me
10:06:22 <qFox> nevermind
10:07:26 <Robert> :)
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10:14:53 <qFox> well. i could try to create an editor like F had
10:15:01 <qFox> never done anything like that before
10:15:05 <qFox> but it just wont be as good :(
10:15:27 <qFox> or at least, as userfriendly (mouse, c/p, integration, etc)
10:15:46 <Robert> qFox: I had to try a number of times before getting most things right. :)
10:15:53 <qFox> :)
10:16:10 * Robert remembers the first "editors" he tried to write
10:16:14 <Robert> Back in 97 or so
10:16:20 <qFox> hehe
10:16:43 <qFox> this one will have the added difficulty of 3 collumns that need to scroll simultanously
10:16:56 <qFox> but are collumns nevertheless
10:18:29 <qFox> maybe i'll just mirc it ;)
10:19:40 <qFox> did F had mouse support?
10:19:49 <qFox> oh silly qustion
10:19:53 <qFox> nevermind :p
10:24:19 <Robert> Hehe
11:12:13 <Raystm2> I was recently asked to take the Jung-Myers-Briggs test .. this time I did not rush. Introverted 56 Intuitive-67 Thinking-67 Perceiving-56. I hope this answers the question. :)
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11:31:09 <Raystm2> TheBlueWizard : hi , I'm better now :) I was recently asked to take the Jung-Myers-Briggs test .. this time I did not rush. Introverted 56 Intuitive-67 Thinking-67 Perceiving-56. I hope this answers the question. :)
11:32:12 <TheBlueWizard> Raystm2 hiya
11:32:51 <TheBlueWizard> hmm....so you're an INTP, eh? (and apparently exceptionally mild one)
11:34:15 * TheBlueWizard is wondering whether I440r is here
11:34:18 <Raystm2> I got some sleep :) How have yoU been. yup mild . like I tryed to explain to the group earlier .. I changes with context. This time I took the test in the quiet of my bedroom -- no one home but me. Last time, my daughter was reading over shoulder and I was ENFP :)
11:34:59 <Raystm2> Have not seen Mark since last night 
11:35:43 <TheBlueWizard> ok to both of your remarks
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11:47:30 * Raystm2 is currently watching "Mythos The Shaping of our Mythic Traditions" a 10 hour course by Joseph Campbell.
11:49:45 <Raystm2> Hosted by Susan Sarandon-- /me wonders "Is there really a more attractive woman in the world than Susan Sarandon?"
11:50:01 <Raystm2> Surely not/
11:50:47 <Raystm2> It's amazing how much of this maps to FORTH
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13:31:10 <TheBlueWizard> well, gotta go....all bye
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14:35:02 <qFox> Robert> continueing on kuF now... going to try and code the editor in that
14:35:09 <qFox> need to patch it up first though ;)
14:35:28 <Robert> Oooh, neat.
14:36:01 <Robert> I really ought to write a working version of F some day
14:38:14 <qFox> ... F works?
14:38:53 <Robert> Ehm, yes, of course.
14:38:57 * Robert whistles
14:38:59 <qFox> i figured that kuF wont actually become a usable forth in terms of speed, but it'll be a good reference for when i really do want to make one
14:39:04 <qFox> hehe
14:39:08 <Robert> Yeah
14:39:13 <qFox> whatever. it works enough for me to be able to use it for kuF ;)
14:39:15 <Robert> Just get it to work, learn your lessons...
14:39:19 <qFox> yep
14:39:29 <qFox> and THEN woop your ass
14:39:30 <qFox> :p
14:39:43 <Robert> Tss..:)
14:41:02 <Robert> I think I'm going to use my 386 for testing G (the new F..), so I don't make code that's too slow.
14:41:59 <qFox> is F slow?
14:42:12 <Robert> A little
14:42:14 <qFox> thing is that i'm doing my testing on a 200mhz laptop so its always slow
14:42:15 <qFox> :
14:42:16 <qFox> :p
14:42:17 <Robert> But actually I was refering to TForth
14:42:25 <Robert> Heh.
14:42:32 <Robert> I tested F in bochs, where it's really slow.
14:42:45 <Robert> On the P200 it's of course very fast.
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14:42:51 <qFox> i wonder why i've put (branch) in the minimal set :s i'm pretty sure i've coded those from scratch
14:43:48 <qFox> and or xor 2/ 2* = > @ ! w@ w! c@ c! + - * / mod key? key [ ] bug moo pause (') (ok) (word) (call) (branch) (0branch) (literal) (.) (emit) (dp) (latest) (defining) (dsp) (dsp0) (rsp) (rsp@) (wsp) (wsp0) (org) (kbuflen) (kbufpos)
14:43:57 <qFox> and the words (dp) and up are variables
14:44:41 <qFox> bug and moo just echo, was for debug when i couldnt echo yet :p
14:45:27 <qFox> oh right, i needed branch natively because i did :p
14:46:32 <qFox> hrm. cmove was the one with ( c-str c-str -- ) ?
14:46:33 <Robert> What's (org) for?
14:46:42 <Robert> Ehm, don't remember. :)
14:46:46 <qFox> returns the org of the userspace of kuF
14:47:00 <qFox> the lowest userspace address that kuF uses
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14:47:26 <qFox> mainly used to make the difference between a threaded and native word, i believe
14:47:31 <qFox> (when executing call)
14:48:03 <Robert> Hm, OK.
14:48:32 <qFox> adr c-adr u
14:49:39 <qFox> cmove was just copy x bytes from adr to adr
14:49:56 <qFox> i hope :p
14:50:34 <qFox> btw, alternatively, i could do a pastebin type of editor
14:53:18 <Robert> How does that work?
14:53:50 <qFox> well
14:54:00 <qFox> make a textarea
14:54:09 <qFox> and let a javascript parse it and display the result
14:54:19 <qFox> wont exactly be useable to edit in, but to check at least...
14:54:24 <qFox> and show the main idea
14:54:28 <qFox> behind it
14:54:48 <Robert> Hehe, maybe
15:15:59 <qFox> nite
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16:29:28 <Robert> Hej.
16:30:34 <Frek> tjena
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17:25:22 <Robert> Hi Sonarman 
17:27:13 <warpzero> where is kc5 :(
17:27:27 <Sonarman> hi Robert 
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18:06:01 <Raystm2> Hey Hef :)
18:06:10 <Robert> Hi
18:07:08 <Raystm2> Hi Robert : what's new?
18:08:32 <Robert> Not much, getting tired.
18:08:44 <Robert> Mailed an italian guy asking for a 3c509 driver for my 386.
18:09:03 <Robert> I tried to port the one I found in Minix-VMD, but it wouldn't work properly.
18:09:45 <Raystm2> well -- I hope he has what you want then :)
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18:24:29 <ianp> http://poststuff3.entensity.net/102904/image.php?pic=bush1.jpg
18:24:29 <ianp> http://poststuff3.entensity.net/102904/image.php?pic=bush2.jpg
18:27:32 <Sonarman> ianp: omg
18:27:35 <Sonarman> haha
18:29:33 <Robert> Heh.,
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18:44:05 <Robert> Hi crc 
18:44:18 <crc> Hi Robert
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18:54:03 <crc> What's new?
18:54:18 <Sonarman> he
18:54:23 <Sonarman> went to sleep :)
18:54:35 <Sonarman> but as for me, nothing
18:55:04 <jim> me and someone are trying to make an eforth, he's trying to understand internals so he's taking a dtc implementation and making it itc
18:55:37 <jim> we're using nasm on linux to produce an elf in 32bit protected mode
18:55:56 <crc> cool
18:56:37 <jim> weird thing is, when it gets to an asm label, it segfaults
18:57:13 <jim> could this be because I have to tell nasm to assemble in some particular way?
18:58:44 <Sonarman> nasm segfaults when it tries to assemble a label, or the forth segfaults when it jumps to a label?
18:59:26 <jim> the forth segfaults when it passes by a label
18:59:56 <jim> so I'm thinking it's some sort of fixup problem
19:00:04 <Sonarman> oh. that's weird
19:00:09 <Raystm2> I'm no expert and I want to learn so I will embarrass my self with the following question.
19:00:28 <jim> sheesh :) just ask :)
19:01:04 <Raystm2> Is it because the calling function that is in protection can't reach the label in the kernel for the protection ?
19:01:50 <jim> Raystm2: well this is a few instructions after the very start of the entry point
19:02:09 <crc> Does the Forth modify the code memory?
19:02:24 * Raystm2 following silently :)
19:02:47 <jim> not that I know of... and certainly not in the first 5-6 instructions that are ever executed :)
19:03:02 <crc> hmm
19:03:04 <jim> this is i386 code btw
19:03:12 <crc> I assumed that
19:03:26 <crc> This is before any calls?
19:03:53 <jim> there were calls to ncurses lib funcs; we commented those out
19:04:00 <crc> ok
19:04:13 <crc> What are the instructions where the problem occurs?
19:04:21 <jim> one sec
19:04:55 <jim> main:
19:04:55 <jim> ; Linux OS entry Boilerplate
19:04:55 <jim> 	push ebp
19:04:55 <jim> 	mov ebp,esp
19:05:08 <jim> 	push ebx
19:05:08 <jim> 	push esi
19:05:08 <jim> 	push edi
19:05:13 <jim>  
19:05:29 <jim> START:	mov eax,DATASTK
19:05:29 <jim> 	mov edx,DATASTKP
19:05:29 <jim> 	mov [eax],edx
19:05:57 <jim> ; the curses calls are here but commented out; I won't paste em
19:06:18 <jim> 	mov eax,COLD
19:06:18 <jim> 	mov edx,COLD
19:06:18 <jim> 	mov ecx,DATASTK
19:06:18 <jim> 	mov ecx,COLD		; cfa of COLD into IP
19:06:31 <jim>  
19:06:34 <jim> DONEXT:	mov edx,[ecx]		; (IP)->WP
19:06:34 <jim> 	add ecx,4		; IP+4->IP
19:06:34 <jim> 	mov eax,[edx]		; (WP)->X
19:06:34 <jim> 	jmp eax			; JUMP(X)
19:07:13 <jim> always seems to happen before the DONEXT label, no matter what instruction is actually there
19:07:19 <crc> Odd
19:07:43 <crc> Why do you have 'mov ecx,DATASTK' followed immediately by 'mov ecx,COLD' ?
19:07:55 <jim> because we're testing :)
19:08:01 <crc> ok
19:08:38 <crc> This is ITC?
19:08:46 <jim> trying to make it be that
19:08:52 <crc> ok
19:09:07 * crc ponders the code
19:09:29 <jim> I can't fathom why a label would make this kind of difference...
19:09:47 <crc> The label shouldn't make a differnece
19:09:54 <jim> let me do some tests to make sure I think that's the problem too
19:10:05 <jim> I got the reports from the other guy
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19:11:10 <jim> lessee, I'll reverse the two instructions before DONEXT... if segfault happens on the second one (now the first), then I'd be convinced
19:13:19 <crc> :-)
19:13:40 <jim> q
19:14:18 <crc> q?
19:14:33 <jim> gdb command wrong win :)
19:14:38 <crc> ahh
19:15:14 <jim> I'm now convinced
19:15:43 <crc> how do you generate a runnable ELF?
19:15:53 <crc> Do you generate the header yourself, or use LD?
19:16:15 <jim> I use ld/gcc to link
19:16:29 <crc> It links against a C library?
19:16:39 <jim> yeah, libncurses
19:16:44 <crc> Hmm
19:17:02 <jim> that part works too
19:17:57 <crc> very odd
19:18:11 <jim> when I uncomment the ncurses calls that set up the window, it calls them
19:18:27 <jim> and then does the segfault behavior
19:18:35 <crc> Is the 'start' label necessary
19:18:43 <jim> dunno
19:18:44 * crc wonders if it is confusing GCC
19:19:15 <crc> The C runtime code that GCC links in also has a 'start' routine
19:19:41 <crc> It *might* be leaving out the GCC start routine and just using you 'start' as the entry point
19:20:24 <jim> now it's a TART
19:20:41 <crc> TART?
19:20:56 <crc> Ahh
19:20:56 <crc> Ok
19:20:56 * crc is a little tired
19:20:59 <jim> yeah, wht you get when you remove first char :)
19:21:34 <jim> good call...
19:21:57 <crc> good call?
19:22:43 <jim> hmm, maybe not
19:28:14 <crc> :-(
19:28:33 <jim> thanks for the attn...
19:28:48 <jim> I just got a "let's go jam!" call
19:29:57 <crc> :-)
19:42:45 <Raystm2> dang jim I wish I had someone to jam with anymore. there all married now.
19:43:03 <Raystm2> and wife is sick of my shit anymore :)
19:45:01 <jim> where are you located?
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19:53:47 <TheBlueWizard> all hiya
19:53:56 * TheBlueWizard wonders whether I440r is about
19:53:58 <crc> Hi tbw
19:53:59 <Raystm2> hiya :)
19:54:07 <TheBlueWizard> crc hiya
19:54:11 <TheBlueWizard> Raystm2 hiya
19:54:43 <Raystm2> if he is he hasn't said anything since 20:00 CST
19:54:53 <Raystm2> that's when I got on.
19:54:57 * TheBlueWizard nods
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20:39:55 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...all bye
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