00:00:03 --- log: started forth/04.09.27 00:00:03 PDF files are just trees of objects. 00:00:18 then how is it perverse rolish? :) 00:00:25 if i remember fcorreclty, it looks something like [l /t 203] or something 00:00:52 { ....contents here.... } /symbolname def 00:01:02 that looks like ps 00:01:14 Yes, because PDF is a logical subset of Postscript. 00:01:28 But it is not Turing complete, and is not intended to be executed. 00:01:44 ic 00:01:45 Let's put it this way: "executing" a PDF doesn't actually *do* anything. 00:01:47 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:01:53 It just builds a data structure in memory. 00:02:13 The viewer is responsible for rendering the display afterwards. 00:03:45 so you'd take a ps interp, feed the pdf in there, and get a tree as a result 00:04:09 then you take the tree and somehow render it 00:04:17 More or less. Like I said, since it's a declarative environment, not everything is going to be executable. 00:05:03 well, the "execution" simply produces data, is that what you said? 00:05:18 In effect, yes. 00:08:45 :) 00:24:58 OK, I have to apply patches to people's servers -- back in a few. 00:25:14 bent: Let me know what you think of that IFF file format. 00:28:37 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 00:29:14 --- join: mur (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 00:34:18 * Serg_penguin looks at 5-Mp digicam for 220$ - quite suspect 'brand' 00:36:15 :) 00:38:02 i gonna buy 22$ matchbox digicam again - 1st one was returned by warranty for 2 broken rows 00:38:42 precisely matchbox size, 26 shots 640x480, cellphone cam quality, 1 AAA battery, USB i-face 00:41:44 * Serg_penguin wonders why EVERY digicam doesn't have RAW mode and manual expo settings 00:49:10 I dunno. 00:49:16 It sure would be nice. 01:17:08 ha-ha, dhamn marketoids who wanna squeeze more $$$ out of us and think we are cumpleet morons 01:20:38 Vario-Tessar f/1.6 is OXU_MORON Tessar's hole should be no more than f/6.3, even f/3.6 in Soviet cameras is brutal overforcage 01:23:47 * Serg_penguin loves Sonnar lens 01:26:06 Not familiar with them. 01:27:07 hm 01:27:20 serg, whats the currency in the soviet anyways? 01:27:27 i cant think of it 01:27:51 roedel 01:27:53 or something? 01:28:34 ruble? 01:32:51 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed") 01:38:07 ruble, but it wasn't convertible 01:38:18 having dollars was high crime 01:38:40 Even as a collectors bill? 01:39:23 collectors were under pressure too 01:39:55 Is this now or during Soviet regime? 01:40:00 not only money collectors, but all antique etc.. - it was semi-illegal 01:40:21 NO - now you can have anything ex for danger things like weapons 01:42:18 at Soviet time, even copiers were 'weapon-like': sold only to trusted organisations, saferooms, usage registering ... 01:42:46 Heh 01:43:09 What are you going to do with one of those? Publish anti-government books? 01:43:19 yep ! 01:48:50 --- join: mur_ (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 01:51:31 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:04:01 --- nick: bent -> bent|sl33p 02:52:59 --- join: mur (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 02:55:14 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:14:56 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:01:39 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 05:03:10 --- join: juhammed (~o@dsl-olugw3p33.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 05:03:42 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 05:05:30 Hi :) 05:07:17 re 05:09:30 Hi to you, too. 05:11:14 --- join: saon (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 05:13:58 Fine, be that way. :-) 05:40:51 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 06:34:43 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 07:02:29 Hey, I'm going home now. Back in 30. 07:28:12 back 07:35:41 --- join: fridge (~Jim@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 07:36:36 25, a new record! 07:36:38 :p 07:37:29 25? 07:37:42 Does it normally take longer? 07:38:05 ... i was joking. 07:43:56 --- join: saon (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:59:57 * Robert returns. 08:15:22 --- join: futhin (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 08:15:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 08:15:56 Hi 08:17:09 hi 08:17:16 how's it going 08:19:07 Doing Java homework :( 08:19:35 But also writing an essay for school about bloatware. 08:19:40 And coding a Forth. 08:19:44 (yay, again) 08:19:53 Oh, and reading some. 08:20:05 While checking half a dozen web pages. 08:20:16 And listening to Bob Dylan, while IRCing. 08:22:18 heh 08:22:44 only half a dozen? ;) 08:22:45 How about you? 08:22:54 Yeah, I tried to close Firefox 08:23:03 And checked through the tabs one last time. 08:23:04 in the process of moving, looking for a place 08:23:07 Then I got stuck. 08:23:17 Oh, where are you moving to? 08:23:17 heh 08:23:21 calgary 08:23:29 Where is that? :) 08:23:33 alberta 08:23:34 canada 08:24:42 basically i'm moving back to where i originally was :P 08:24:56 i first got on #forth when i was in calgary :P 08:26:14 Oh, yay. 08:26:18 Back to the Forth roots, then. 08:27:58 :) 08:28:44 ya know.. i bet you're gonna end up with a masters or phd 08:28:47 am i right? 08:29:18 No idea. I guess I'll know when I get it. 08:29:43 But it's not like being a code slave forever is very appealing to me. 08:30:04 are you refering to work or graduate studies?? 08:30:29 Work. 08:30:47 Which means that if I find something interesting enough to work with, I might as well do that. 08:31:02 Otherwise I'll do my best to stay at the university for a while. 08:32:46 futhin not moving to indiana ? 08:35:26 I440r: no that plan has been delayed 08:35:49 k 08:36:06 robert: what degree are you currently pursuing 08:36:13 I don't know. 08:36:30 do engineering physics then ;) 08:36:45 I don't like physics that much 08:36:51 anything that says "computers" in the degree is wussy 08:36:58 er "computer" 08:37:19 Only physics class I'm going to have for a while is the one about digital electronics. 08:37:22 (brb, printing homework) 08:42:50 Hey, I have to go to bed. 08:44:07 kc5tja: stayed up all night? 08:52:12 he works the graveyard shift now 08:54:50 oh 08:54:51 forgot 09:05:34 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:06:19 super orgy porno party! 09:06:26 (its the name of a song) 09:06:34 good song! 09:06:46 Uhm, oookay 09:07:05 I strongly associate #forth with odd music now. 09:07:10 heh 09:07:12 Since Speuler sent me "Fucking an animal" 09:07:15 lol 09:10:00 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 09:21:53 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 09:26:56 --- join: hefner (~hefner1@linux1.gl.umbc.edu) joined #forth 09:30:03 hi 09:32:32 damn you speuler 09:33:15 bringing this channels name into disrepute 09:41:20 :) 09:41:40 hm? 09:41:46 oh 09:41:49 futhin: Hi :) 09:53:37 hi rk 10:15:43 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 10:35:01 --- join: AldoBr (Aldo@201009174126.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 10:35:12 hi 10:35:28 Hi 10:49:26 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:49:34 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 11:19:48 --- part: futhin left #forth 11:52:13 --- quit: I440r_ (Excess Flood) 11:52:24 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 12:08:53 --- join: swsch (~stefan@p5091EF01.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:10:57 --- quit: swsch (Client Quit) 12:11:13 --- join: swsch (~stefan@p5091EF01.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:13:18 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 12:13:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 12:14:14 --- join: swsch_ (~stefan@p5091E5D7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:16:16 --- quit: Robert ("CP/M-86 rules. Multitasking is for lamers") 12:20:00 --- join: madwork_ (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 12:22:03 Boo! 12:22:52 buh... 12:30:50 --- quit: swsch (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:39:42 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 12:47:12 --- join: crc (crc@94-pool1.ras11.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) joined #forth 12:53:19 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@68-114-30-126.cpe.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 12:57:43 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 13:04:58 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-bf5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 13:13:00 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 13:15:39 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 13:16:47 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@mi120.dn187.umontana.edu) joined #forth 13:18:23 My version is... 13:19:21 Oh, cool, I didn't know there was an irssi 0.8.9 13:19:29 irssi on linux i586 13:19:37 P200 :) 13:19:53 :) 13:20:30 sup guys 13:20:33 most people here are running irsssi 13:20:35 Hi warp0x00 13:20:41 im on irssi 13:20:44 arke: Are you running mIRC? 13:20:49 but warpzero is on xchat 13:20:59 hi warp0x00, user of irssi 0.8.10-rc5 on linux i686 13:21:03 I only run xchat for cwirc, which isn't very often. 13:21:07 Robert: no, CGI:IRC from school 13:21:13 Hah! 13:21:20 My school even has irssi installed. :P 13:21:27 :P 13:21:32 * crc is playing with an x86 disassembler written in RetroForth :-) 13:22:05 Neat, does it treat you good? 13:22:38 Yes 13:23:03 It doesn't display properly on RetroForth/Windows, but works flawlessly on RetroForth/Linux 13:24:09 :) 13:24:27 Hehe 13:26:05 I'm trying to get the author to add some comments though 13:26:49 ~500 lines of Forth code with almost no stack or other comments 13:27:17 :) 13:28:48 Maybe he's one of those who beleive in "self-documenting code"? Or just lazy. 13:29:59 --- quit: warp0x00 ("Lost terminal") 13:31:51 Perhaps he believes in the program as an art form, where true appreciation can only happen with complete understanding, and where he suspects that shortcuts to 'good-enough' understanding -- such as documentation and stack comments and (sometimes) intelligible names -- only serve to obstruct true appreciation. 13:32:01 Maybe 13:32:17 Or perhaps he just wrote it quickly and hasn't had time to finish commenting it 13:32:20 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@mi120.dn187.umontana.edu) joined #forth 13:33:02 :) 13:33:03 * crc is planning to try to simplify it a bit if I can make sense of it 13:33:17 :) 13:34:05 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 13:34:09 I just want to be able to decompile Forth words; not disassemble everything 13:38:35 --- quit: crc ("Time for bed... Goodnight!") 13:38:41 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 13:39:06 hi 13:40:11 Hi 13:40:23 dumbass classmate reset my computer becuase he thought my tower was his 13:40:38 arke - paint yours black. 13:40:40 Fun. 13:41:00 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 13:57:43 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 14:05:09 So far, I've identified Matmos music (when coming through headphones held away from the ears) as the sound of my G3 crunching a CD (I awoke to this, alarmed) and as simple 'white noise' static. 14:14:51 --- join: paintcan (~wossname@rn-v1w5a06.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 14:15:32 --- nick: paintcan -> wossname 14:35:45 Matmos :) 14:52:47 familiar with them? 14:53:37 I have -- through iTunes -- 'Civil War' and their collaboration with Rachel's, 'Full on Night' 14:59:00 hi 15:04:30 hello slava 15:06:29 --- quit: fridge ("Leaving") 15:11:57 --- quit: AldoBr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:12:24 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:13:09 --- join: paintcan (~wossname@rn-v1w5a06.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 15:37:57 --- quit: I440r ("going home") 15:49:17 Your momma is so fat that when I swerved to miss her, I ran out of petrol. 15:54:59 --- quit: paintcan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:36:52 --- quit: warp0x00 (Connection timed out) 17:06:04 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@modem-026.nyc-tc03a.FCC.NET) joined #forth 17:06:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 17:06:32 Hi 17:06:51 Robert hiya 17:15:25 kc5tja 17:29:25 * kc5tja notices, with disdain, the almost snide comment from Robert regarding "self-documenting code." :) 17:29:39 kc5tja, ping 17:29:48 kc5tja, where do i find your kesterel font? 17:29:59 kc5tja, i want to try simple text output and don't want to fiddle with freetype just yet 17:30:01 slava: FIREWALLED!!! 17:30:15 lol 17:30:21 just a second 17:30:48 kc5tja: Sorry, but I believe in documented code. Not saying I live as I learn, but... 17:31:02 Robert hates the "self documenting" code? 17:31:32 Nah. I think code should be as self-documenting as possible, of course, but that's not always enough. 17:31:53 When people suggest you should even omit stack comments because "they should be obvious", something is wrong. :) 17:31:57 slava: If you look in the Kestrel download archive, in the /cores/cpu/os/screen directory, there is a file called "defaultfont.bin". That's a raw, 2KB dump of the bytes making up the font. 17:32:15 ok thanks 17:32:17 is it ascii order 17:32:28 so i find char n at offset 64*n ? 17:32:34 Robert: Maybe that something might be your inability to see the obvious? 17:32:36 slava: Yes. 17:32:54 kc5tja: I can blame a lot of things on my own stupidity, but not THAT. 17:33:21 Robert: I don't want to pick a fight. But I find that when words are truely obvious in what they do, I find stack comments to be a spatial distraction. 17:33:38 kc5tja: _If_ they are obvious, sure. 17:33:52 kc5tja: But some people claim that is _always_ the case. Which it's not. 17:33:55 I find the overwhelming majority of Forth words to be so obvious, provided they are well factored. 17:34:07 what's obvious to one may not be obvious to other 17:34:22 Right. 17:34:23 Well, reading Forth is a skill, like writing Forth. 17:34:50 Just like reading C is a skill different from writing C. 17:34:51 you mean "it was difficult to write so it should be difficult to read" ? 17:34:51 :) 17:34:58 I440r_: No. 17:35:03 How many times do I have to say this? 17:35:04 kc5 i know lol 17:35:07 How many examples do I have to give? 17:35:11 For Christ's sake. 17:35:12 --- part: kc5tja left #forth 17:35:16 Wow. 17:35:26 wokay 17:35:26 That's what I call getting easily offended. 17:35:36 I won't say I'm much better, though. :) 17:38:04 * TheBlueWizard hmms re: kc5tja's abrupt departure 17:47:56 http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/povray/povfrac/final/0006.html 17:49:12 who drew that ? 17:49:15 Heh 17:49:54 http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/povray/povfrac/final/0022.html 17:49:56 that ones is better 17:50:32 this guy just offered me $100 to spend 2 hours coding a simple GUI in java 17:55:25 ask for $200 :) 17:55:43 100$/hour for gui forms is a bit steep ;) 17:55:52 its like menus and dialogs and shit 17:56:03 new JButton("OK") 17:56:06 new JButton("Cancel") 17:56:16 lol 17:58:51 well, gotta zip...all bye 17:59:10 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 18:04:26 I just listened to the moon. :) 18:04:38 The bright side of the moon, in fact 18:04:47 Using a light detector. 18:04:58 http://v3rn.dyndns.org/stuff/project.jpg 18:05:04 * I440r_ looks outside 18:05:07 nope 18:05:11 your lying 18:05:14 therse no moon out there :P 18:05:41 slava: Er, where did you get thay from? 18:05:54 Robert, it was posted in another channel :) 18:06:13 --- nick: bent|sl33p -> bent 18:06:15 Ah, right.. I saw it an hour ago, but on another URL. 18:06:41 Freenode is small. ;) 18:06:48 thats cool :) 18:06:53 this link is from efnet ;) 18:07:33 slava: Who gave it to you? 18:07:41 squeeze 18:07:50 slava: Because I saw it on Freenode and posted on EFnet 18:26:17 slava: nice jpg :) 18:36:15 hi Herkamire 18:41:36 --- quit: bent ("brb") 18:45:10 --- log: started forth/04.09.27 18:45:10 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 18:45:10 --- topic: 'FORTH programming language. Info: http://forth.bespin.org/resources/introduction ANSI: http://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpans.htm FIG83: http://forth.sourceforge.net/standard/fst83/ Links: http://members.dsl-only.net/~loophog || Note: this chan is publicly logged. | misato' 18:45:10 --- topic: set by wossname on [Wed Sep 15 18:12:21 2004] 18:45:10 --- names: list (clog Robert proteusguy madwork_ swsch_ @Herkamire I440r_ hefner juhammed mur madgarden warpzero ayrnieu slava das ianp Fractal @ChanServ skylan jim onetom cmeme) 18:45:38 hi slava :) 18:53:13 --- quit: I440r_ ("Leaving") 19:21:31 --- part: das left #forth 19:25:19 I'm not programmer god, but these people are dumber than dead sperm 19:25:22 wtf 19:31:18 --- join: _proteus (~proteusgu@68-114-30-126.cpe.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 19:32:23 I've written close to 2000 lines of Forth in the last little while. Yay! 19:36:24 --- join: t3h_ch1k3n (f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 19:37:24 okies, final nickchange. 19:47:30 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:05:49 slava: where was that from? 20:06:28 don't ask 20:09:01 hefner, do you code crazy stuff in forth? 20:15:32 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 20:19:53 ok, who is t3h_ch1k3n lol 20:20:01 arke 20:20:25 ok lol 20:23:15 :) 20:34:07 oh bent == arke 20:34:18 why do you kids keep changing your nick 20:34:29 I have a hard enough time keeping people straight as it is 20:34:35 lol 20:34:44 i've always been and always will be slava because that's my name :) 20:35:17 lol 20:35:21 --- nick: I440r -> hiding 20:35:25 --- nick: hiding -> I440r 20:35:26 :) 20:35:34 this nick will likely persist 20:35:42 lol 20:35:45 yeah right 20:36:02 i would prefer it didnt :P 20:36:05 for how many years? 20:36:06 blender is confusing :) 20:36:38 Glib's Fourth Law of Unreliability: 20:36:38 ? Investment in reliability will increase until it exceeds the 20:36:38 probable cost of errors, or until someone insists on getting 20:36:38 some useful work done. 20:36:49 only when coding in languages other than forth 20:36:57 wtf 20:37:04 thats from ugf 20:37:22 I440r: in forth nobody insists on getting useful work done? ;) 20:37:35 s/forth/#forth/ ;) 20:37:40 lol 21:36:12 --- quit: t3h_ch1k3n ("leaving") 22:02:24 --- quit: hefner ("zzz") 22:59:32 --- nick: _proteus -> proteusguy 23:33:57 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.09.27