00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.09.16 00:05:23 --- nick: mur_ -> mur 00:21:33 --- join: mur_ (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 00:23:54 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 00:46:24 --- quit: Herkamire ("beddddd") 01:18:13 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 01:19:01 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 01:39:25 --- join: snowrichard (~richard2@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 01:39:26 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:39:55 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 01:52:51 --- join: snowrichard (~richard2@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 01:53:09 --- quit: snowrichard ("leaving") 02:48:00 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 02:49:44 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:51:51 --- join: crc (crc@20-pool1.ras11.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) joined #forth 02:54:33 --- quit: kc5tja ("leaving") 02:58:59 --- quit: cmeme ("Client terminated by server") 02:59:14 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com) joined #forth 03:07:29 --- join: snowrichard (~richard2@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 03:09:02 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 03:29:26 --- join: Frag-101 (XINU@12-222-128-22.client.insightBB.com) joined #forth 03:30:01 --- join: saon (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 03:37:32 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 03:38:48 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 03:52:52 --- join: Topaz (jonny@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust217.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 04:03:04 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 05:11:35 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 05:14:33 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:33:12 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:34:28 --- join: crc (crc@67-pool1.ras11.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) joined #forth 06:09:59 --- join: snowrichard (~richard2@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 06:10:41 Hi 06:10:45 hello 06:11:42 I am on a simulated VAX right now :) 06:11:52 cool 06:12:51 * Robert is on a real x86. Not as sexy, but I get through :) 06:13:15 the real one is a Pentium 4 06:14:03 what OS are you running on the simulated VAX? 06:14:11 netbsd 1.6.1 06:14:23 cool 06:15:27 * crc once attempted to run NetBSD on a Jornada 680 06:17:23 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 06:17:57 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 06:30:23 was afk for breakfast 06:32:01 heh, you never know, in a few hours i might be on a O2 :) 06:32:05 infact 06:32:06 * Topaz plots 06:35:55 --- join: Topaz-O2 (~root@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust217.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 06:35:58 :D 06:36:08 :D 06:36:19 You're on oxygen? 06:36:31 heh :P 06:36:44 195mhz of silicon-graphics 64-bit MIPSness :P 06:36:51 Oh, THAT is an O2? 06:37:08 yeah 06:37:12 * Robert is on 200 MHz of pure 32-16-8-bit Intel mess. 06:37:54 alas, linux is having trouble on this little beasty 06:38:00 ebay has lots of old sparcs listed 06:38:23 Too bad I don't have room for more computers here... A guy I know is giving away sparcs. 06:38:31 And another is giving away macs... 06:38:42 So many computers, so few cubic meters. 06:38:51 my mom bought 92 PC's at her colleges IT garage sale 06:39:04 plus network hubs and ups 06:41:05 my mother the geek 06:41:11 Wow. 06:41:28 she's listing them on ebay 06:41:55 Hehe, let's hope they get sold.. Otherwise someone will have a lot of toys :) 06:42:36 joy, something is hopelessly corrupted here :/ 06:42:50 something keeps trying to access past the end of this scsi hdd ;) 06:43:02 my first thought after unloading them all was to build a beowolf cluster, but the only power the trailer they are storedin has is 1 extension cord :) 06:43:31 Heh. 06:43:44 just moved the trailer in recently 06:43:54 this is amusing, the O2 linux kernel doesn't have support for the system clock 06:43:57 Well, you could always hire some unemployed coders and start a computer school ;) 06:47:25 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 07:43:19 --- quit: crc ("Time for bed... Goodnight!") 07:54:33 --- join: mur_ (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 08:01:51 --- join: snowrichard (~richard2@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 08:03:02 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 08:05:07 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:14:43 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 08:18:22 Hi I440r 08:18:41 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 08:20:11 --- join: mur (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 08:50:38 --- join: arke|school (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 08:56:36 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:58:29 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 09:07:46 --- quit: Topaz-O2 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09:20:27 --- quit: arke|school ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 09:25:28 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:25:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 09:40:59 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:44:06 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 10:05:12 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@82-169-140-229-mx.xdsl.tiscali.nl) joined #forth 10:06:12 Hej 10:12:07 hello 10:12:39 wasup? 10:12:44 bed 10:13:05 :) 10:13:10 Night fridge 10:13:14 And.. I'm OK. 10:13:21 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 10:21:08 --- join: wossname (~wossname@rn-v1w5a06.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 10:22:03 --- quit: Frag-101 (Remote closed the connection) 10:24:32 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:35:37 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 11:50:56 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:52:38 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 12:11:27 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-75-242-200.san.rr.com) joined #forth 12:11:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 12:33:05 LoopHog's game, Skamy, is just plain hard. :) 12:33:12 * kc5tja is playing it on an Atari ST emulator. 12:37:30 clear 12:37:31 ls 12:37:32 oops 12:38:03 Hehe, is it fun? 12:39:03 I think it'd be more fun if it weren't so damn hard on leve 2. 12:39:09 It's *rediculously* hard. 12:53:26 --- join: jim (~jim@cpe-24-143-141-183.cable.alamedanet.net) joined #forth 12:54:27 I'm writing a machine simulator, and I'm trying to get an add and add with carry, and also have them produce output carry and overflow... 12:54:38 what I'm trying is something like: 12:55:43 : add ( 32b 32b -> 32b carry ) 0 swap 0 d+ ; 12:56:15 it seems like I'm getting the carry indication... 12:56:43 but now, how to do add with carry? 12:56:45 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:58:25 (as far as overflow, from what I understand, overflow is: (sign of operand1 == sign of operand2) and (sign of eitheroperand != sign of result) 12:58:29 ) 12:58:38 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 13:13:20 0 dup rot :) 13:13:38 erm no 0 swap over worths tho 13:13:45 not 0 swap 0 heh 13:14:26 that part is neither here nor there... either is fine :) 13:14:53 but, is there any reason to believe I wouldn't get the proper carry? 13:17:32 I tried: hex 80000000 0 80000000 0 d+, and on the stack I got 0 1 13:18:17 (with top to the right, like you'd type it) 13:19:40 ohh, I see what the result means now 13:20:29 basically I added two unsigned 32b numbers, each with their highest bit set... 13:20:58 and the result set the 33rd bit 13:21:52 would that be an overflow condition? 13:22:27 (since the operand sign bits are equal, but not equal to the result sign bit) 13:23:32 A carry is just the n+1th bit of the result. 13:24:01 ok, good enough... so a 64-bit d+ will get me the carry bit 13:24:07 And yes, that is also an overflow condition. 13:24:34 Do I have the right idea for calculating the overflow? 13:24:35 Overflow is defined only for signed numbers though; Overflow is the XOR of the 33rd and 32nd carry result. 13:24:51 Carry is easy to get. Overflow is a bit harder. 13:25:26 One possible means of determining the overflow is to do this: 13:25:37 yeah... I did get that definition of overflow... but I got another one that works like this: 13:26:00 as far as overflow, from what I understand, overflow is: (sign of operand1 == sign of operand2) and (sign of eitheroperand != sign of result) 13:26:29 : detect-overflow-for-add ( sorry ; can't think of better name ) $7FFFFFFF AND SWAP $7FFFFFFF AND + $80000000 AND 0= GetNormalAdditionCarryHere AND ; 13:27:33 Oops: s/0=/0= 0=/ 13:27:58 I got herkforth running under pearpc! 13:28:27 really really slow though 13:28:35 I'm going to try buffering output. 13:28:38 Basically, my approach doubles (roughly) the length of time it takes to add two numbers. It does your normal 64-bit addition, then it does a 31-bit addition, so as to detect the carry into bit 32. Then I XOR the results. 13:28:42 hopefully that will speed it up a lot 13:28:56 s/GetNormalAdditionCarryHere AND/GetNormalAdditonCarryHere XOR/ 13:28:59 sorry -- I'm tired. 13:29:21 --- join: snowrichard (~richard2@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 13:29:43 jim: Not sure of your approach. I'd need to study it further. My approach is pretty brute force, I have to admit. 13:29:46 Yours may be faster. 13:30:09 be right back 13:30:10 Herkamire: Cool. :) 13:30:12 re snowrichard 13:30:25 --- quit: wossname (Connection timed out) 13:31:24 maybe; I believe I can do one add and wrap the test for overflow around it 13:31:27 hey snowrichard 13:31:39 I want it portable, so gotta be hi lev 13:32:11 hello 13:32:19 --- join: wossname (~wossname@rn-v1w5a06.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 13:33:26 in "Design of VLSI Systems" (at http://vlsi.wpi.edu/webcourse/), Daniel Mlynek and/or Yusuf Leblebici state in part: 13:34:35 "Overflow: An overflow can be detected in two ways. First an overflow has occurred when the sign of the sum does not agree with the signs of the operands and the signs of the operands are the same." 13:34:54 the second is your definition, iirc 13:36:55 Yes, I look at it from a hardware perspective, since that's pretty much how I think. :) 13:37:15 which is their perspective too 13:37:45 (they're talking about this in the context of creating adder chains that are efficient 13:37:48 ) 13:40:14 ok, here it is... 13:40:24 they go on to say: 13:40:48 "...Secondly, if the carry out of the high order numeric (magnitude) position of the sum and the carry out of the sign position of the sum agree, the sum is satisfactory; if they disagree, an overflow has occurred." 13:41:33 brb 13:44:37 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:02:07 i think its dead jim 14:04:12 --- quit: snowrichard ("leaving") 14:04:36 oh well :) I'm workin on it :) 14:04:54 this is for an arm7 simulator btw 14:05:08 i think that was a quote from eek the cat, but just disregard it nevertheless :) 14:09:25 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 14:10:26 back 14:10:40 Hi 14:10:46 * kc5tja is getting ready to get to aikido tonight, and from there, to work. 14:11:25 who is your instr? 14:11:39 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:11:40 or are you him? :) 14:12:10 jim: In aikido, everyone is an instructor. 14:12:11 :) 14:12:18 But I go to Katz Sensei's sessions. 14:12:28 ahh 14:13:23 jim: Have you attended aikido in the past? Currently? 14:13:46 not in many years 14:14:18 * kc5tja nods 14:14:29 when I started, Sasaki Sensei was head instr, then Jeff Fox 14:14:42 My former sensei was Macbeth sensei, at Kenshinkan dojo in Vista, CA. 14:15:20 Macbeth Sensei, Katz Sensei, and Nakayama Sensei all comprise the west-cast teaching committee for the American Aikido Association. 14:15:31 (Actually, there is one more sensei, whose name I forget). 14:16:04 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 14:16:36 Heh, Jeff still stops by here now and again. 14:16:53 Though, I'm not even shodan yet. Getting there though. 4th kyu, though I should be 3rd kyu by now. 14:17:02 --- join: mur_ (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 14:17:43 However, you need to be a bit more specific when you say "was head instructor." There are many schools. :) 14:18:16 this was berkeley aikido club, which became berkeley aikikai 14:18:25 * kc5tja nods 14:18:36 Aikikai is a *good* group. 14:18:55 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:18:56 I like AAA and Aikikai. Very complimentary styles. 14:19:05 after Sasaki Sensei passed on, Japan sent a 7th dan to head Berkeley 14:19:10 AAA was headed by Fumio Toyoda, Shihan. 14:21:13 For the west coast instruction, it was Toyoda Shihan, Nakayama sensei, then Macbeth, Katz, and (forgot name) sensei. So I was kind of lucky. Only 3 removed from Toyoda shihan. Still a lot, I guess, but still...there are those who are even further off than I. :) 14:22:02 if you're happy with the result, it's all good :) 14:22:10 I'm VERY happy. 14:22:17 I'm not in it for the fighting aspect, obviously. 14:22:27 If I was, I'd be at Seagal's dojo, or Chiba sensei's. :D 14:22:40 ugh :) Chiba :) 14:22:56 Chiba is damn good. But he's hard. Seagal is just plain nasty. 14:23:01 that guy is monstrous :) 14:23:29 I saw a Seagal sensei class on some pirated video on the Internet one day. Man, I'd much rather go with Chiba sensei. :D 14:23:30 he has a recognized school? new york aikikai maybe? 14:23:37 Who is "he"? 14:23:42 Seagal 14:23:59 Seagal has schools in America (California and Florida) and something like seven in Japan. 14:24:22 a regular franchise :) 14:24:34 When you're 7 dan, you can afford to have one. 14:25:16 The only other American sensei I'm aware of to exceed 6 dan is Doran sensei (and HE is FANTASTIC! Very smooth!) 14:26:15 there was a story about Chiba... at one point at O Sensei's school, Chiba was the last in line, and when some outsider would come to challenge, he'd be the first in line to fight... no one ever got past him 14:27:25 Chiba is just plain powerful. 14:27:51 His atemi rivals out-right attacks in karate and judo. :) 14:27:56 well, jujitsu at least. 14:28:32 Seagal takes that to a whole new level, I think. He's not only powerful, but he's just down right vicious. 14:29:01 Seagal's randori is . . . shall we say . . . full contact. 14:29:03 as evidenced by his movies... 14:29:23 What he does in his movies isn't even pure aikido. 14:29:36 true... 14:29:37 His techniques start off as aikido, then go into jujitsu. 14:29:53 But when he's on the mat, he actually does do aikido. 14:29:59 It's just that he doesn't play around. :D 14:30:05 I watch, and I go, "that's aikido!" or "nope, he hit someone... not aikido" 14:30:19 I hate html. I hate html. I hate html. I hate html 14:30:25 Heh 14:30:29 I remember when I was growing up and watching his movies, I was flabbergasted -- I never seen any martial art flicks like his. 14:30:37 hey, there's an echo in here! 14:31:02 Then, having gone to aikido classes, I look at his movies and go, "Yep, did that....did that....ummhmm...did that too....interesting variety of kotegaishi, but....oh, did that too..." 14:31:05 ;D 14:31:31 I'm usually a bit gentler 14:31:35 ;) 14:31:35 I had no idea that he was practicing aikido either. I didn't know until after I'd already started aikido. 14:31:59 yeah, there are lots of examples of kotegaishi, and of 4-directions throw (forgot the japanese name) 14:32:27 shiho nage. 14:32:36 yeah :) 14:34:31 It's funny too, because MOST of what he does on the big screen is all just kihon waza (basic technique). 14:34:51 And really, after having spent three years of my life in aikido, his movies just aren't interesting for me anymore. :D 14:34:53 aikido is all about the basics 14:35:08 its mostly recognizable... and I never gained any rank 14:35:40 well, I've always been a bruce lee fan 14:36:16 Bruce is comparatively uninteresting compared to others since him. His claim to fame is very clearly economy of motion. He's just plain not flashy. 14:36:24 (and that's a good thing -- it's much more realistic) 14:37:08 he was nothing if not realistic :) 14:37:23 Jackie Chan is Lee's protege, despite going in a completely different direction artistically speaking. Chan can do pretty much everything Lee can, and maybe even as well. But Chan prefers flash and dazzle, because it sells better, and well, it's funny as hell. :) And that's Chan's philosophy -- make people laugh. 14:37:35 --- quit: qFox ("this quit is sponsored by somebody!") 14:37:46 <3 jackie chan 14:38:03 yeah, it's definitely more flashy 14:38:48 as far as detail goes, it's very similar... every move choreographed 14:39:02 Jet Li is a *great* martial artist too. But his movies are more fantasy than realistic; hence all the wirework. I like it, but only with the cavaet that it IS fantasty. 14:39:38 I hate it when people tell me how sucky a Jet Li movie is, then ask them what they were expecting, and they virtually describe a Bruce Lee movie. 14:39:57 You'd think they'd get the point by now. 14:40:21 Chow Yun Fat is another martial artist who has a good reputation. But he, as far as I know, tends to shy away from martial arts films. 14:41:30 How does Seagal deal with total beginners? 14:41:52 jim: As far as that video that I saw showed, he was pretty gentle with them. 14:42:07 It's just that his level of contact accelerates faster as rank goes up than in other schools. 14:42:47 Injury city, seems like 14:43:18 I think I have my add and add with carry done... time to test :) 14:43:22 Seagal's philosophy is if you're learning a martial art, any art, then you should be able to defend yourself against what you're likely to find out on the street. 14:43:41 And the sooner that happens, the better. 14:44:02 krav magna rite >:o 14:44:05 The school I'm in, you pretty much have to be in aikido for at least 10 years before you can even begin to defend yourself from someone on the street. 14:44:23 But we concentrate more on the basics and personal safety on the mat. 14:44:38 A good 5 years alone is spent concentrating on kihon waza and basic ukemi. 14:44:42 that makes it "good exercise" 14:44:49 It's fantastic exercise. 14:45:44 But it does more than that, I think. 14:46:02 Personally, I'm of the opinion that you DO need to know the basics before you go into the more advanced fighting scenarios. 14:46:21 Once you get your blackbelt in AAA, that's when the "real training" starts -- traditional Japanese thinking. 14:46:40 Training becomes very intense for you at places like seminars and the like. 14:46:56 (which at that rank, seminars are required to attain higher rank!) 14:47:13 strongly agreed, about knowing the basics first... 14:47:29 But unlike Chiba or Seagal's schools, said students don't often walk out with bloody noses or tweaked arms. 14:50:18 I can-not- do ukemi... my toes won't do that 14:50:49 instead, they get sprained for a very long time 14:54:18 Ukemi is things like taking falls or doing the rolls. 14:54:38 Are you sure you're not thinking of things like shiko or suwari waza? 14:54:46 exactly 14:55:07 right, being the "uke" is the fall-taker 14:55:59 I'm sure I -am- thinking about shiko and suwari waza 14:56:26 Yeah, shiko is the knee-walk, and suwari waza (and hanmi hadachi) are when you perform techniques on your knees. 14:56:43 In which case, I have to agree -- my toes aren't all that flexible either. 14:57:17 I'm sure the more I do it the more flexible they'd become. Most people in USA just don't do much with their toes, so it is perfectly understandable. 14:58:54 heh, the new head instr at Berkeley Aikikai had this conditioning class, one of the exercises was to stand and try to move forward by dragging feet forward with just toes 15:02:16 * kc5tja nods 15:02:45 anyways... I'm getting into testing this thing... have a great time in class :) 15:03:27 I always do. :) 15:30:34 --- join: saon (~Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:38:08 --- join: Topaz (jonny@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust217.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 16:02:09 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:11:37 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 16:12:15 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 16:27:39 --- quit: saon ("Leaving") 17:22:47 --- join: mur_ (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 17:24:55 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:26:23 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 17:27:43 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:29:39 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 18:00:46 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:02:33 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 18:06:34 Off to aikido. By the time I get back online, however, I'll be at work. 18:06:44 So, with that said, . . . ciao 18:16:27 i managed to decrease the horsepower of my car by ... uuh ... about 10 18:19:26 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 18:19:58 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 18:24:22 --- join: snowrichard (~richard2@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 18:26:05 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 18:38:42 * arke tries to figure out the gloogle thing 18:52:46 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:06:00 --- join: imaginator (~George@georgeps.dsl.xmission.com) joined #forth 19:17:56 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 19:20:11 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:31:55 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19:42:00 yesss! beat my highest highscore in rockdodger by half a seccond (2:37.5) 19:43:18 lol 19:43:43 I haven't even been reaching my high scores much lately 19:44:27 do something poductive 19:44:33 like port that awesome forth of yours 19:44:54 iPoductive? 19:50:37 heh, I'm getting some paid admin work as we speak 19:58:52 well, that was an easy $15 19:59:08 and now, back to our regularly scheduled programming :) 19:59:33 programming?! regularly scheduled!!? 20:00:10 I've never heard of such a thing :) 20:00:27 yeah, it's not regular 20:00:36 but I still think saying that is Really funny 20:00:48 meetoo :) 20:01:11 what was I going to do next? 20:01:22 heh, oh yeah. buffer output. 20:01:50 fetch IP, increment, double-indirect jump... 20:02:02 and where you get to all depends on where you were ;) 20:02:29 ew 20:07:10 HAHA 20:07:18 FTP gives times in scientific notation!!! :) 20:07:55 in seconds since big bang? :)