00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.09.01 00:10:02 --- join: mur_ (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 00:22:35 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:21:27 --- quit: proteusguy ("Leaving") 01:23:39 --- join: mur (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 01:34:11 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:21:55 --- join: mur_ (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 02:34:28 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:47:37 --- join: crc (crc@54-pool1.ras11.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) joined #forth 02:53:27 * crc considers making some oddd changes to RetroForth 03:15:26 Should 'if' consume the stack elements being compared? 03:23:20 --- join: mur (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 03:27:17 * crc has just rewritten the if/then and comparision code in RetroForth 03:35:49 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:41:34 --- join: mur_ (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 04:52:18 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:17:30 --- quit: crc ("Time for bed... Goodnight All!") 05:38:13 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 05:38:46 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 06:01:12 --- join: Serg_penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 06:13:56 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 06:24:03 --- quit: I440r_ ("Leaving") 06:39:26 --- join: SDO (~SDO@67-23-111-213.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 06:44:08 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@216-110-82-203.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 06:58:10 --- quit: SDO (Client Quit) 06:58:54 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 07:03:27 --- join: zruty (~chuck@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:26:58 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:35:30 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:35:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 07:45:07 --- quit: ADD-101 (Remote closed the connection) 07:45:42 'morning all 07:52:22 Good afternoon :) 08:08:47 good morning :) 08:35:07 --- quit: zruty ("Gerbils Don't Make Flan") 08:36:43 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 08:37:01 IRC FROM SCHOOL!! YAY 08:38:45 Good morningz. 08:38:51 Almost lunch time. 08:40:40 heh 08:40:55 840am here 08:41:00 in school 08:41:03 :) 08:41:15 Damn West Coaster! 08:41:16 :P 08:41:43 :P 08:42:34 Whee, Forthy->MFC C++ interfaces: 08:42:34 static void word_status_store(FSYSTEM *sys) 08:42:34 { 08:42:34 TestUnit *me=TESTUNIT_SYS(sys); 08:42:34 TestUnit::Stat status; 08:42:34 08:42:36 status=(TestUnit::Stat)fs_get_int(sys, -1); 08:42:38 fs_pop(sys); 08:42:40 08:42:42 me->setTestStatus(status); 08:42:44 } 08:43:31 :P 08:43:50 :) 08:43:55 X-D 08:44:37 IRC from school - I love it 08:46:02 gmail doesn 08:46:31 't work though because https doesn't work from here 08:46:36 :/ 08:52:09 --- quit: arke ("gota go back to class, see you later") 10:10:06 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 10:10:30 hi for a bit 10:11:14 hi arke 10:11:25 Hi 10:12:35 I'm at school ^_^ 10:12:41 found a CGI:IRC one that isn't blocked 10:12:55 hey 10:13:08 can anybody, like, uum, offer a full poroxy somewhere port 80? :P 10:13:54 Robert: robert.zizi.org is unblocked *cough* :) 10:15:14 :) 10:15:59 class is starting soon 10:16:06 when it does, i have to leave again. 10:16:18 but just the fact that I can IRC from school is nice : 10:16:37 arke: where's the irc gateway you found? can I post a link to it? 10:17:02 http://www.polarhome.com/cgi-bin/chat/irc.cgi 10:17:04 why do you ask? 10:17:13 (i found it with google) 10:17:20 arke: Hm? 10:18:10 Robert: is it possible to set up something I can log into from school, seeing that robert.zizi.org is unblocked? ^_^ 10:18:36 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 10:19:57 Hah. 10:20:06 I can even SSH _to_ my school an IRC from there. 10:21:31 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-74-218-202.san.rr.com) joined #forth 10:21:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 10:22:00 --- join: herktest (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 10:23:27 wb kc5tja :) 10:23:58 --- quit: herktest (Client Quit) 10:24:43 re Herkamire 10:24:43 --- join: herktest (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 10:24:57 re herktest 10:26:36 I'm not sure this cgi thing really works 10:26:57 "12.3kb loaded 105b/s" 10:35:45 "13.3kb loaded 23b/s" 10:36:18 --- quit: herktest ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 10:37:22 --- join: herktest2 (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 10:37:53 ok, maybe it doesn't work that well in w3m 10:38:22 this is pretty clever 10:39:06 I think it's made a frame for the body of this chat, and it's got the browser under the impression that it hasn't recieved the whole file yet and should keep waiting for more 10:40:03 --- join: herktest3 (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 10:41:14 heh, no luck on the text-only browsers I use though. w3m won't display this page untill it thinks it has the whole thing. and lynx doesn't support frames, so you can't enter anything while looking at the chat 10:41:24 --- quit: herktest2 (Client Quit) 10:41:45 sorry about all that 10:42:22 --- quit: herktest3 (Client Quit) 10:46:42 What are you working on? 10:50:24 kc5tja: I just have a bunch of links on my wiki on how to get on IRC and I wanted a web-based irc client to complete the list 10:50:54 I was just trying the cgi/irc thing that arke found 11:16:02 Herkamire: I've been looking for one, actually. But now that I can SSH to my box from work, I no longer have a need. 11:41:55 kc5tja: well, if you ever need one, there's a link on my wiki 12:07:00 wheres tathi when ya need him :/ 12:07:28 Where all IRC:ers are, in idleland. 12:07:39 but he isnt even idling here! 12:07:41 grrr 12:28:44 --- join: crc (crc@217-pool1.ras11.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) joined #forth 12:28:44 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:32:13 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 12:32:23 hi from school 12:32:26 hi kc5tja 12:34:18 --- join: arke_ (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 12:34:28 --- quit: arke (Nick collision from services.) 12:34:33 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 12:34:57 well, of course, it isn't without complications :) 12:36:39 Robert: the thing is that your school doesn't block everything and its sister 12:36:45 Right. 12:36:47 Robert: everything here is blocked unless approved 12:36:49 Because it's GOOD. 12:37:07 Robert: and I think theres only port 80 and a few others available 12:37:25 Hihi 12:37:29 Enjoy :) 12:37:35 argh 12:37:37 :/ 12:37:56 please be nice 12:38:09 But it's hard! 12:38:10 can you set up a prooxy at like robert.zizi.org/teddybears:80 or something? 12:38:25 hard to be nice? :) 12:38:27 be nice 12:38:31 You'll enjoy it 12:38:32 ^_^ 12:38:42 Uh... 12:38:45 Robert: good news - ALMOST got F2 to interpret stuff 12:38:51 How would THAT work? 12:38:59 Neat 12:39:16 trying to rewrite 12:39:16 got a bug in WORD that only reads one and then segfaults 12:39:27 errr 12:39:35 those two things were supposed to be sent the other way around lol 12:40:03 i dont know how its supposed to work, just make it work please :/ 12:40:08 you won't regret it 12:40:09 :) 12:40:36 (i can't even access friggin' gmail!) 12:41:14 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 12:42:58 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 12:43:01 hi 12:43:15 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 12:43:21 christ 12:43:25 --- join: FlamingRain (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 12:43:26 guy starts to restart his computer 12:43:33 so he presses the button on MY box 12:43:36 :/ 12:43:39 d'oh! 12:44:25 :/ 12:44:30 oh well 12:44:33 back when i used to run my server under my desk at work i'd accidentally kick the powerstrip with my foot and like 10 people would start emailing me wondering why the box is down. :P 12:44:34 could be worse 12:44:35 right? 12:44:41 hehehee 12:44:46 i used to do that at home 12:44:48 :) 12:44:52 it sucked 12:45:00 because vi would crap all over itself at startup 12:45:01 like 12:45:14 "OMG THERES A FILE MAYBE ITS RUNNING TWICE HELP ME DEAR GOD ARGHGHBLBL" 12:45:19 yea. it's really annoying when you have like 3+ computers plugged into the same strip and you kill everything at once. 12:45:22 arke, AHAHA :) 12:45:45 other than that, I love vi 12:45:45 :) 12:46:11 would be great if instead of that it would just say at the bottom like "theres a swap file. press :fefhrj to restore" 12:46:13 or soemthing 12:46:25 yea. 12:47:33 or if it just use F_SETLK on the file and didn't use swap files. forcing you to save regularly instead, which is a habit most of us have gotten down pat. 12:47:46 hrm. now i want to write a text editor. 12:47:54 hehe 12:48:02 thats the INTP spirit :P 12:51:47 intp ? 12:52:01 introverted intuition thinking perceiving 12:52:17 myers briggs personality type that pretty much 90% of we #forth ers are :) 12:52:30 that's a new one on me. but i bet it explains a lot of my behavior. 12:55:40 i find a lot of forthers have links on their website a lot like mine. they are usually into 3 or more of the following: wankel engines, firearms, small computers, libertarianism, shortwave or ham radio, home brewing/distilling, and of course forth. 12:56:18 even a lot of the old fellas at SVFIG fall into this. there might be a particular personality type that is attracted to forth. 12:56:39 yep 12:57:06 google for myers briggs personality test 12:57:28 take it 12:57:33 you're probably INTP or ISTP 12:57:44 http://herkamire.com/jason/forth_channel_personality_types 12:58:03 http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp for the test 12:58:43 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:58:51 --- quit: tathi (Client Quit) 12:59:29 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:00:33 bouncy tathi 13:00:34 :) 13:02:16 gotta go to class, later 13:02:26 --- quit: arke ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 13:02:44 yea. i'm INTP alright. 13:02:53 so is my fiance. 13:03:41 Taking a shower. brb 13:03:58 you need a water proof terminal to use in the shower. 13:11:51 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 13:18:05 --- join: arke (apache@11.198.216.81.dre.siw.siwnet.net) joined #forth 13:18:12 back 13:18:50 hi arke 13:18:59 how are you tathi? ) 13:19:00 :) 13:19:04 since I missed you before :) 13:19:33 :) 13:19:41 I am in class 13:19:47 substitute on the first day 13:19:53 and i already finished the assignment 13:19:57 so i thought id pop in 13:19:58 for a bit 13:19:59 :) 13:20:09 ChanServ: \\\ 13:20:13 oops 13:20:15 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 13:23:07 hi tgunr 13:23:44 back for now. 13:24:21 hey kc5tja 13:24:22 :) 13:24:31 im at school if you havent read ^_^ 13:24:56 I've read. 13:26:08 * kc5tja is working on updating my website content, which I basically haven't done in about a month. >:( 13:26:57 i need to find a new cgi proxy 13:26:57 the one here was blocked :/ 13:27:16 The first thing I'm looking to do is reorganize the bloody PayPal links. They 13:27:29 're getting out of date, and now belongs in the bottom of the page, rather than the side bars. 13:29:16 I'm also thinking of discarding the weblog program too. It was a nice to have, but realistically speaking, I can maintain news items just as easily without it. Few people ever responded to the news items anyway. 13:31:45 i did ^_^ 13:35:49 wiki wiki wiki 13:36:21 ikiw ikiw ikiw 13:36:33 ^_^ did i 13:38:01 :) 13:38:03 (: 13:38:14 this is the greatest class evefr 13:38:21 or year, actually 13:38:27 1st and 5th are both with computers 13:38:34 so whatever i do, i can have IRC in the background 13:38:37 JOY 13:38:38 :) 13:38:58 you get a computer at your desk? 13:39:09 in both classes 13:39:17 1st period is CAD, so duh 13:39:34 5th is economics, but its taught by the same teacher that teaches computer foundations 13:39:40 so theres computers at every desk 13:39:42 I LOVE IT 13:39:46 nice 13:39:51 Herkamire: can you do me a favor? 13:40:46 hi herk! 13:40:55 Hmmm....maybe I should move the PayPal link to its own distinct page instead. I like the certs along the left-edge of the screen, but the PayPal link at the bottom of every page just looks out of place. 13:41:07 --- quit: I440r_ ("brb") 13:41:25 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 13:41:52 hi I440r_ 13:41:59 wb I440r 13:42:11 I440r: thanks for pointing that out to me last night, it helped :) 13:44:27 jeezz 13:44:31 :) 13:44:32 explorer.exe crashed 13:44:33 i ferget what it was lol 13:44:38 lol 13:44:38 io.1 13:44:44 :) 13:44:46 set to non-canonical and turn off echo 13:46:26 oh right :) 13:46:43 this termios thing is such a hack 13:47:32 is it necessary for the linux kernel source to be 220Mb ? 13:47:39 Just one of many reasons why I want to develop my own OS that is half-way sane in architecture. 13:48:00 does it come with a bunch of .jpg files i'm not aware of? :) 13:48:02 OrngeTide: well...you could trim out all the architectures that you don't need. 13:48:10 Don't know how much that cuts it down though :) 13:48:10 OrngeTide: When you attempt to include every conceivable device driver for Linux ever made by humanity, yes. 13:48:11 hehe 13:48:45 tathi, well arch/ is 44Mb .. drivers/ is 94Mb 13:48:49 unix terminal i/o is moronic 13:48:56 I440r_, it stinks. 13:49:16 It's because it was never intended to handle real-time, event-driven I/O. Never. And it shows. Badly. 13:49:19 also 'screen' making a TERMCAP environment variable >1023 characters is annoying too 13:49:26 But far be it for someone to realize this, let alone agree with it. 13:49:57 why not add kernel calls to make this easier? 13:50:08 "OMG BREAKING TRADITION EVIL UNIX IS PERFECT" 13:50:24 because you know what. if screen just picked an existing terminal to emulate that is fairly static and featureful, like xterm for example, then it wouldn't need any goofy environment variable that exceeds the standard limit for termcap 13:50:47 kc5tja, install OpenVMS instead:P 13:50:52 why does it need to set the termcap var anyway? :) 13:51:29 OrngeTide: OpenVMS isn't going to be any better with respect to console I/O. Like Unix, it was intended for use on a time-shared computer system, where terminal I/O was fully and adequately described as an RS-232 channel. 13:51:45 VMS in general. 13:52:04 isn't VMS a UNIX spinoff? 13:52:06 or vice-versa? 13:52:08 or not even? 13:52:10 arke, because it doesn't want to require people to install special termcap/terminfo entries. 13:52:11 What's needed is an operating system that is deeply and thoroughly inspired by VMS, but which isn't tied to time-sharing principles for user I/O. 13:52:23 arke, Windows NT is a VMS spin-off. 13:52:25 arke: HOW DARE YOU even compare VMS to Unix or vice versa! They're not even CLOSE! 13:52:37 AmigaOS is a VMS spin-off (indirectly through Tripos) 13:52:39 arke, VMS is event driven. 13:53:09 * arke hides in a corner 13:53:16 sorry, know nothing about it, please don't bitch at me :/ 13:53:27 arke: :) 13:53:33 saw someone on a VAX box and it looked like he was typing somewhat-unix-like commands 13:53:44 except that it was all caps 13:53:45 * kc5tja whacks Arke over the head with all 25 volumes of the User's Manual for VMS. :-) 13:53:51 ouch 13:54:05 (and yes, there were shelves and shelves and shelves of books for VMS. No idea of how many there actually were though. I just picked 25 out of my head.) 13:54:06 ok, maybe not unix 13:54:08 :) 13:54:13 OrngeTide: what did NT steal from VMS? 13:54:23 kc5tja: :) 13:54:30 arke: Microsoft hired the chief architect of VMS to code the NT kernel. 13:54:32 OrngeTide: i know NT, what did it steal from VMS? 13:54:37 hrm. i don't think linx supports 1-bit framebuffers on PXA250/255 .. according to pxafb.c .. 220Mb of source code and it doesn't support the hardware i want to use. 13:54:42 NT's kernel isn't half-bad as a result. It's actually rather pleasant to code for. 13:54:59 arke, NT kernel was designed from the ground up by original VMS designers to be a better VMS. 13:55:13 then MS threw a bunch of junk from windows 3.0 ontop of it. 13:55:17 except that they put the windows gui on it 13:55:19 Yup. 13:55:24 (first win16, then starting with 4, win32) 13:55:37 :) 13:55:38 Although, the NT kernel IS crippled by the DOS-syntax for volume names. 13:55:43 That's where AmigaOS got everything *right*. 13:55:46 it would be really neat if MS open sourced NT kernel. i'd totally play with that. 13:55:54 definetely! 13:55:56 MyWorkVolume:foo and DF2:foo could be the same thing. 13:56:06 i should try amigaos sometime. 13:56:19 so that other people can use the "microkernel" 13:56:26 as a .. well... microkernel 13:56:28 :) 13:56:29 has anyone made a free/opensource amigaos-like kernel with reasonable documentation? 13:56:43 most microkernels really stink. (like Mach) 13:56:48 OrngeTide: You won't immediately recognize its VMS heritage until you start studying the exec.library API. The shell environment is Tripos, which *itself* is inspired by VMS, but takes a more user friendly approach to command line interfaces. 13:57:02 OrngeTide: Use L4 instead. That damn thing is a *screamer*. 13:57:17 kc5tja, i see. well i'm mostly interested in system call interface than what shell you have installed :) 13:57:37 OrngeTide: AROS is one such project, an attempt to make a completely redesigned AmigaOS-like OS. From what I hear, it's coming along quite nicely. 13:57:45 i kinda like VTSa .. but it's no longer maintained so it's start to get bitrot. 13:57:50 The system call interface is always through libraries. 13:57:51 kc5tja: can you describe the L4 API to me in 2 sentences? :) 13:58:00 arke: Fast. Minimalist. 13:58:10 i said sentences not words 13:58:12 kc5tja, hrm. like a libos? like an exokernel? 13:58:13 :) 13:58:46 QNX is all through library calls. every library call is just one of four possible kernel functions to send a message or signal. 13:59:07 OrngeTide: It shares a lot of characteristics of exokernels and microkernels combined (easy to do when everything runs in a single address space). Also, 90% of the "OS" ran in user-mode, and literally *every* system component is expressed as a library of the same form as any other user-supplied library. Literally. 13:59:24 kc5tja, neat. 13:59:33 --- quit: arke ("be back in a few minutes") 13:59:47 OrngeTide: L4 is somewhat similar; it has something like 7 system calls, although some might say it has closer to 14 or so. Even so, you typically only use 5. 14:00:05 It has a synchronous IPC model, like QNX. 14:00:50 However, the IPC is more flexible, I think. Small messages are sent entirely in CPU registers. Larger messages are copied. However, you can also send *mappings* via the same interface too, which provides for VERY fast transfers of enormous quantities of data. 14:00:59 wait. it looks like pxafb.c does do 1-bit mono. i was just not searching for the right keywords in the source. yay! my LCD is supported. 14:01:07 Also, mappings can be revoked by the original sender if necessary too. 14:01:50 kc5tja, yea. QNX had "pulses" which were a signal+1 value(one register) 14:01:52 L4's memory management philosophy is also rather cache kernel-like too. 14:02:05 sounds exciting. 14:02:28 Also, L4 models external hardware as other threads. To wait for an interrupt, you literally wait for a "message" from that hardware thread. The kernel knows how to properly interpret that request. 14:02:38 It's pretty unique microkernel, I think. Very fascinating. 14:03:00 And small too. L4/x86 (although unsupported) is written entirely in x86 assembly language, and assembles to approximately 12KB. 14:03:13 wtf. the only BSD licensed L4 kernel is done in C++ 14:03:48 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 14:03:50 kc5tja, i'm not into asm-based systems. mostly because i flip between ARM, PowerPC, and x86 frequently. 14:03:58 Modern L4s are usually written in tightly controlled subsets of C++, which is convenient in that they can then support more than one kind of processor architecture. Also, since the C++ dialect used is tightly controlled, their size isn't too out of this world either. 14:04:24 * kc5tja has been looking at L4/Ka to start off with, and I've been considering looking at Fiasco for use with Dolphin (a real-time microkernel). 14:04:29 so it looks like L4 is more of a kernel architecture. and people write their own L4s .. interesting. 14:04:39 Huh? 14:04:49 "more of a kernel architecture"? 14:04:56 L4 API 14:05:05 I still don't understand. 14:05:26 The L4 API hasn't changed significantly (except for gross simplification) since when L4/x86 has been released. 14:05:38 Pistachio, Fiasco, P4, L4/x86 all appear to be different code bases. 14:05:48 Yes, and all based on the same L4 API. 14:06:21 right. l4 api is what i'd normally refer to as the kernel architecture. (not to be confused with processor architecture that a kernel may support) 14:06:31 Oh, I see. 14:06:49 so i'm assuming L4 API is simple because there are plenty of implementations of it. this is good :) 14:06:52 Yeah, in that sense, I can agree -- L4's API has increasingly moved towards CPU independence without sacrificing performance or functionality. 14:07:13 Yeah. You'll want to use the L4 with the latest API though -- the L4/x86 is a good API as it stands, but it's pretty x86-centric. 14:07:32 L4/Ka and I *think* Fiasco both support the newer L4 API. 14:08:01 sounds pretty nifty. 14:08:46 Back when I was writing my own Dolphin kernels, people just kept asking me, "Why not use L4?" I was confused back then. I really didn't want to lose control over my works (I was too young to really understand the licensing issues anyway). 14:09:48 But today, I'm glad to have rediscovered L4, and in a way, I'm glad I waited so long. The new L4 APIs are sweet, they handle multiple CPUs, etc. I can't say enough good things about L4. Although it does have its warts too (like, for example, no explicit message queues -- tasks talk directly to other tasks), it's a very, very agreeable system. 14:15:09 VSTa does SMP. i'll have to learn more about L4 and perhaps post a comparison between them. .. VSTa is more traditional though, it's like an extremely lightweight QNX. 14:15:31 but what you say about L4 sounds neat. i'm already tagging a bunch of pages in my bookmarks:) 14:17:24 :) 14:17:28 grr...I wish google would quit changing the number of links before the textbox.. 14:17:49 :) 14:18:24 hrm.. L4 Linux .. that sounds interesting. i could make an L4 dev system without having to dual-boot or buy another computer:) 14:18:38 (and without having to run stuff under bochs or qemu) 14:19:04 tathi: I have a shell script that passes it's arguments to google (preserving quoting etc) 14:19:07 http://jason.herkamire.com/svn/jason/bin/google 14:19:53 i once wrote a shell script cgi and people figured out if they put ; in the query they could run any command as user 'nobody' 14:20:14 i'm not a very evil person so i don't consider these things 14:20:40 $ google foo "interesting point" 14:21:20 http://jason.herkamire.com:5000/svn/jason/bin/google 14:21:49 OrngeTide: And L4 is multiboot compliant too, so it'll work out of the box with Gru. 14:21:51 OrngeTide: And L4 is multiboot compliant too, so it'll work out of the box with Grub. 14:22:08 yea. but i don't want to have to reboot my box if i can avoid it. :) 14:22:27 i'll probably dual boot l4linux and linux. and just point them to the same root partition. 14:24:46 * kc5tja is wondering: what looks better? http://www.falvotech.com/index.html or http://www.falvotech.com/index2.html ? 14:26:02 kc5tja, first one. 14:26:10 i'm totally going to steal your design for my page 14:26:39 The first one? You like having that big-ass PAYPAL button in your face? :) 14:27:29 yup 14:28:17 mostly i prefer reading text in narrow columns. like in a book or newspaper. so the big ass button helps shorten up the long lines of text. 14:28:53 That's odd -- the columns are exactly the same width on my screen. What is your resolution? 14:29:14 Mine is 1024x768 14:29:49 yeah, they're the same here too. 14:30:15 kc5tja: I like the first one 14:30:39 Man, I remember a few months ago, people were non-stop complaining about the PayPal link. :) 14:30:54 kc5tja, oh. it's the same. it was just an optical illusion. 14:30:59 the paypal button on the second one looks like it's just kind of hanging off the bottom on the second one -- I might like it better if it was in a bar like your w3c buttons in the first one... 14:31:05 kc5tja, i just don't like all that white on there in the second one. 14:31:12 the first one has more grey and it feels smaller 14:31:25 tathi: They are. I just haven't uploaded the new CSS file yet. 14:31:32 (because it'd overwrite the current CSS file) 14:31:41 I like the gray bar accross the bottom 14:31:43 I'm not saying that a bss section won't work, I'm just saying oh, ok. 14:31:56 gah 14:32:26 lol 14:33:06 I keep assuming that irssi keeps a separate input line for each window. 14:33:19 --- join: madwork_ (~madgarden@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 14:33:27 OK. So, I guess now I'm kind of wondering, are people interested in having a two-column textual format, a la most magazines? 14:33:56 I'm just wondering because I'm thinking my site's navigation layout is getting a bit cluttered. I am looking to just clean up the site a bit. 14:34:08 anyway, I just agree with Herkamire that I like the gray bar across the bottom. 14:34:48 Well, like I said, there is a grey bar at the bottom, but I haven't uploaded the new CSS file for it yet. It'd interfere with the existing site's layout if I did. 14:35:01 kc5tja, i think two-column is nice to read. but it makes cut and paste a pain in the ass 14:35:20 OrngeTide: Yes, which is why I'm striving for as much simplicity as I can muster. 14:35:40 kc5tja: yeah, I heard that. Sorry. 14:35:40 They're a pain in the butt to hand-edit too. 14:36:13 yea. so don't go that route. unless you really want your site to look like a magazine. (it's probably okay if you have multiple articles and you post them side-by-side 14:36:17 ) 14:36:36 kc5tja: I like the layout 14:36:47 I wouldn't bother trying to split the text into two collumns 14:37:04 on top of being a pain to do, it sucks for anybody with a small screen 14:37:31 Yep. 14:37:43 OK, so I won't bother to clean up the site layout then. I'll just leave it all as-is. 14:37:58 Thanks for your input. 14:38:15 does anyone know if its legal to have a .bss without having a .data ? 14:38:27 It should be. 14:38:59 it should also be legal to change your processes memory allocation size without havint either .data or .bss but in fbsd its NOT 14:39:10 you cant sys_brk your text section 14:41:39 --- quit: slava ("Leaving") 14:41:51 OSes suck 14:42:12 hmmmm. maybe I should rethink that one, as i'm working on creating one :) 14:42:45 maybe the herkforth OS motto will be "All OSes suck. This one just sucks less" ;) 14:42:59 Heh 14:44:11 or "sucks better" 14:44:12 lol 14:44:33 Now with more sucking! 14:44:45 lol 14:45:03 Well, all that grey is inevitably going to go away though. I can't really ask for donations on a project that I'm going to put to sleep for the time being. 14:48:41 yaeh 15:09:03 ya know that "its not a bug, its a feature" ? 15:09:04 well 15:09:08 windows has feature bloat! 15:10:43 Same joke in 2 channels, twice the fun! :D 15:15:14 --- join: doublec (~doublec@coretech.co.nz) joined #forth 15:57:37 slava isforth will never support freebsd 15:57:40 im sick of it 15:57:56 i ask for help and i just get shitloads of crap from the people i ask 15:58:17 neither freebsd NOR the jackasses who use it are worth supporting 15:58:22 they can go fuck themselves 15:58:56 present company excepted? :P 16:00:40 * kc5tja notices an eerie silence. :) 16:00:56 every fucking irc channel ive been in thats dedicated to fbsd does nothing to make me even want to support them 16:01:01 to hell with them 16:01:06 fuck them and the horse they rode in on 16:02:10 I440r_, how about netbsd? :) 16:03:15 a lot of the freebsd communities i tried to get help from are elitists. they find out i mainly fun linux and they treat me like some kid who just installed redhat on his mom's computer. 16:03:28 bsd is bsd is bsd 16:03:30 period 16:03:39 netbsd community is very very nice. 16:05:41 openbsd split from netbsd because of an elitist that had problems. :P 16:06:02 How DID the three BSD camps come about anyway? 16:06:30 kc5tja, pretty simular to how many distros of linux came about. although freebsd's kernel is a lot more heavily modified than openbsd and netbsd 16:07:03 i think both freebsd and netbsd originally came from bsd/386 16:07:18 there is some fancy postscript file that graphs all the unix forks out nicely. 16:07:42 http://www.levenez.com/unix/ 16:09:35 netbsd is originally from 4.3BSD lite .. but later merged in 386BSD. freebsd originally started from 386BSD 16:09:58 which started from 4.3bsd lite .. basically the kernels are the same thing. 16:10:09 it's actually not hard these days to port drivers between them. 16:10:19 by port I mean, change your makefiles :P 16:11:27 Wow. My website update is nearly complete. 16:11:43 Just need to "release" FTS/forth 0.2.0 and I'll be all done. 16:12:11 Heh 16:12:21 Do all the BSD variants use the same Ports mechanism for package management? 16:31:16 * kc5tja is uploading my new site content now. 16:31:21 taking a while. 16:32:04 there. i wrote my own css instead of stealing yours. it had a bunch of special MSIE hacks in it that i didn't understand. (nor have any way of testing if i change) http://orangetide.com/newsite/ 16:32:17 * kc5tja wouldn't have cared if you stole my CSS. 16:32:18 kc5tja, they all use their own ports but they are all basically the same. 16:32:25 My CSS is almost verbatim copy of ESR's. :) 16:32:38 kc5tja, yea. it was an open source css. but i wouldn't feel bad stealing css anyways. 16:32:47 i just didn't understand the hacks so i wrote my own based on your style 16:33:09 i had some pop-ups context menus in mine though. but it screws up the word wrap for some reason. 16:33:20 * kc5tja nods 16:33:27 Damn, this is taking forever. :) 16:42:08 OK, the new site is up. 16:42:15 * kc5tja just needs to add a few entries into my blog. 16:42:22 tathi: Your essay is online now. 16:42:37 I didn't do too much editing of it. But if you have any things you'd like to have changed, just let me know. :) 16:59:18 Site update is complete. 17:10:12 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:23:23 --- quit: OrngeTide ("busy") 17:34:37 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 18:39:43 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-bf5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 18:41:28 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:46:53 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG 18:47:06 Herkamire, :) 18:47:33 herkamire ~$ firefox 18:47:33 No running windows found 18:47:33 herkamire ~$ 18:48:16 I'm soooo glad I updated firefox 18:48:37 * Herkamire imagines the bug report he should file 18:49:05 what happened: printed "No running windows found" 18:49:33 what did you expect would happen: sit there for a long time listening to the disk churn, and eventually have abrowser open 18:57:46 * kc5tja rotflmfo! 19:16:30 --- quit: slava ("Leaving") 19:41:35 :) 19:41:55 the kicker is that the gentoo bug system requires javascript :) 19:42:07 so I actually have a good excuse to whine about it on irc :) 19:56:46 Uugh. :( 20:02:23 I've always had good experiences in #gentoo-ppc 20:19:35 --- quit: doublec ("Leaving") 20:25:51 --- quit: cmeme (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:25:51 --- quit: warpzero (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:26:29 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.103.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 20:26:29 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com) joined #forth 20:57:11 * kc5tja has read the philosophy of the BSD core philosophies as compared to that of Linux, and I have to admit, they have awfully compelling points. 20:58:08 If I do proceed with the development of Dolphin, I'm fairly confident that it will be with a BSD-ish philosophy, for sure. This is inline with what I've experienced in the past, where I refused hackers' submissions because I felt they were taking Dolphin closer towards another Unix than anything else. 21:01:05 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 21:05:21 re slava 21:05:47 hi 22:06:06 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:11:27 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-107.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 22:14:12 --- quit: slava ("Leaving") 22:16:31 Well, I'll be back in a bit -- getting some food. 22:28:04 --- join: Serg_penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:37:04 re Serg_penguin 22:37:07 hi ! 22:37:15 i'm back from vacation ;) 22:37:18 Just got back from getting food. 22:37:25 he-he 22:37:32 What'd you do on vacation? 22:38:06 You hate it for some obscure reason ;))) I did TR's course ;))) 22:38:18 oh. Sorry to hear that. :) 22:39:04 hmm.. i completely fail to understand why you feel so about this ;( 22:39:17 what's TR's course? 22:39:37 Hey, count me out of this discussion. 23:09:13 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed") 23:12:39 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 23:14:43 I think it's pretty much time for me to hit the sack too. I have to work tomorrow. *sigh* 23:14:51 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.09.01