00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.08.22 00:13:30 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 01:01:34 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 01:12:29 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:16:33 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 01:17:14 --- join: mur (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 02:14:11 --- quit: SDO ("Vision[0.9.6-0203]: i've been blurred!") 02:19:33 --- join: mur_ (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 02:30:55 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:18:15 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 03:18:15 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:18:46 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 03:36:27 --- quit: warpzero (Remote closed the connection) 04:05:52 * Tomasu is away: dlrrp 04:07:29 --- nick: Tomasu -> TomasuDlrrp 04:20:02 --- join: mur_ (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 04:22:40 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:57:15 --- join: Topaz (~top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust117.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 05:22:23 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 05:33:28 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:41:09 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 06:10:43 --- join: FlamingRain (~Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 06:21:56 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 06:22:09 hi ! 06:27:54 i got my airshow fotos ;) 06:28:53 + few shot of RU main expo from 22-storey 'elite' house what is 'guarded by anti-terrors' (no one even tryed to stop me) 06:51:13 Hehe 06:51:29 I'm living close to a military controlled area 06:51:40 With lots of objects you're not allowed to photograph 06:52:05 If you come over here you must bring a friend, so you two can loudly speak russian and walk around with a camera there ;) 06:52:18 (the military is still scared of the russians) 07:00:30 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:24:16 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 07:24:52 * Serg[GPRS] is playing w/ loading pictures into cellfone 07:33:07 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] () 08:23:38 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.103.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 08:44:00 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 08:55:20 --- join: mur_ (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 08:57:39 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:46:58 --- join: FlamingRain (~Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:56:00 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 11:10:18 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 11:10:54 --- join: mur (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 12:05:33 --- join: thin (thin@horizon.fasthost.net) joined #forth 12:05:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 12:05:45 --- part: thin left #forth 12:44:34 hi 12:45:17 Hi slava 12:46:22 --- join: thin (thin@horizon.fasthost.net) joined #forth 12:46:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 12:46:32 May you live in interesting times! 12:46:40 We already are. 12:46:56 it's a chinese curse 12:47:03 i'm cursing you, muwahahaha 12:47:33 we should be programming not cursing. 12:47:45 --- quit: warpzero ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 12:47:45 same thing :P 12:48:33 I just did some math - felt good. :) 12:48:59 * slava is studying a bit of CSS. 12:49:00 Unfortunately I needed several hours for a simple task, so that feeling was very unmotivated. 12:49:09 I spent a few hours trying to solve the NP-Complete problem 12:49:28 but it seems to require more than a few hours :/ 12:50:34 Heh 12:50:42 Sounds like something for the amateur mathematician ;) 12:50:57 well you don't have to directly solve the NP-complete problem 12:50:58 Do you study/like math? What kind(s)? 12:51:55 all you need to do is to figure out an algorithm that solves minesweeper in a finite amount of time 12:52:10 er 12:52:28 Finite or polynomial? 12:52:58 Er... 12:53:05 What were you going to say? :) 12:53:21 and for like all the variations of say a 10x10 minesweeper problem, its gotta solve each of them in the same amount of time 12:53:24 i think 12:53:24 i forget 12:53:27 heh 12:53:41 it was awhile ago that i tried to solve the np-complete problem :P 12:53:42 it wasn't today 12:53:52 Ah, OK. 12:54:02 But about math in general (see my earlier questions)? 12:54:36 well i think school ruined math 12:54:42 i've got an interest in pure math theory 12:54:45 number theory etc 12:55:06 i think if school had taught math from the number theory standpoint it would've been more interesting 12:55:18 i.e. developing the math like how it was developed historically 12:55:41 rather than just skipping that and going straight to the "practical" number crunching etc 12:55:54 Personally I was lucky with school, since I was a bit ahead I could do whatever I wanted all the time. 12:55:57 Which was great 12:56:01 Freedom! :) 12:56:06 yeah 12:56:10 number theory is just one branch of math, it deals with integers and prime numbres etc ;) 12:56:10 if you don't have freedom you stop thinking 12:56:23 But I see they messed you up. 12:56:52 Yes, you could explain the "number theory standpoint" thing a bit further 12:58:03 well my dad has a calculus textbook from one of his honours courses that approaches the teaching of calculus from a pure math theory standpoint 12:58:17 "math theory"? 12:58:17 much more intersting way to learn calculus 12:58:38 I think he wondered where the number theory comes into the picture 12:59:04 I started learning calculus because I needed it to solve some problems. 12:59:13 Which is an excellent way. 13:00:06 math is developed thru proofs etc 13:00:06 And today I revived some geometry skills by proving a part of a trigonometric proof (nothing advanced, really, but I haven't done geometry in a LONG time). 13:00:24 I see... Sure, a formal way can be good. :) 13:00:43 Maybe not always ideal for making people understand though, but too many simplifications can be harmful. 13:00:49 so learning math by seeing how the whole math stuff was developed historically 13:01:00 i.e. by following the proofs from the begining to where we are now 13:01:24 rather than just learning "math" 13:02:06 it might sound scary to have an education system based on teaching math the way it was developed 13:02:12 but i don't really think so 13:02:32 as its spread over 12 years heh 13:02:52 pure math isn't really about "1 + 1" or anything like that 13:03:27 blahblahblah 13:03:55 you have to understand 1 + 1 before you can understand the proofs. 13:04:10 just like when teaching somebody forth, you probably won't explain exactly how : ; work the first tiem you show them 13:04:14 you'll just say 'this defines a new word'. 13:04:18 of course 13:04:24 basic math is all you need tho 13:04:33 to get started on pure math 13:04:53 I wonder how much is would fuck up your brain if they taught number theory without too many abstractions. 13:05:13 I mean, defining a prime as a number of items that can't be ordered in a rectangle. 13:05:20 And things like that. :) 13:05:26 Counting on your singers when you're 30. 13:05:31 hehe 13:05:45 as long as its binary counting ;) 13:06:16 i do binary counting for when i gotta count on my fingers and the number is larger than 10 13:06:23 well no i lie 13:06:30 when the number is larger than 32 13:06:57 yeah i'm a lazy bastard 13:07:06 back in grade 7 and 8 and 9 i didn't have a calculator 13:07:17 so i became quite fast 13:08:00 hell in grade 5 i didn't have a calculator either and we had some contest where the teacher would ask two students to calculate a number and whoever answered first won 13:08:15 and i won the whole thing heh 13:08:22 and everyone else was using a calculator 13:08:30 but then i got my hp48 calc 13:08:36 and now i'm lazy as fuck about counting in my head 13:08:39 lost all my skill 13:08:42 Hehe. 13:08:56 i'm really good at losing my skills 13:08:59 I used to entertain myself on the way to school by factoring the license plate numbers. 13:09:03 and forgetting things 13:09:11 like i'd forget all my math over the summer 13:09:13 But normally I don't like doing exact calculations in my head. 13:09:22 back in junior high school 13:09:42 i take pride in the fact that i forget whatever i don't need 13:09:50 Approximations are fun though, like "how much energy do you need to make this lake warm enough?". ;) 13:09:54 because i learn stuff so fast 13:09:58 there's no point in retaining anything 13:10:26 When it comes to math the understanding is most important anyway. 13:10:51 yeah 13:11:04 whatever i retain is the instinctive understanding etc 13:11:10 I tend to remember lots of things in some situations, and forget everything in other. 13:11:17 like i'll read tons of books on a given subject 13:11:22 come up with my conclusions 13:11:30 and then forget all the stuff that leads to my conclusions 13:11:43 so all i know is i'm right, but i can't support it in arguments ;) 13:11:57 Hah. 13:11:59 yeah smarter computers will save me 13:12:11 cuz then they'll be able to provide that information that i forgot 13:12:58 Perhaps. 13:13:22 It's much easier once you get started, when things are connected to each other. 13:13:39 Like, it's totally impossible to just list a number of objects (or whatever) in a specific category. 13:13:50 lately i sort of go out of my way not to learn anything that is ultimately obsolete 13:13:59 But if you're given the names of the objects, you can usually spit out a lot of info about them. 13:14:19 like news, or other programming languages, etc 13:14:22 i just focus on concepts & ideas 13:14:44 But that's not always enough. 13:15:31 i avoid learning stuff about computers now too more or less 13:15:53 you're grasp of hardware is much more sophisticated than mine etc 13:15:59 you and kc5tja heh 13:16:07 i don't bother retaining any of that 13:16:30 so when i ask kc5tja about his kestrel and he starts dropping all the hardware info i've no idea because i already forgot what they meant 13:16:44 hmm 13:16:51 i don't really know why i'm doing this 13:16:56 i think its some sort of instinct 13:17:00 I'm just saying that the "general concept" isn't worth much without the details. 13:17:10 It's one of two parts. 13:17:11 just in case i live for a thousand years or something 13:17:21 can't have my memory all filled up or something 13:17:24 Remove one of them and you don't master the subject. 13:17:33 i'm an INTP 13:17:55 once i'm satisfied that i can achieve competence in a given field i'm happy 13:18:04 i'm mostly incapable of mastery 13:18:15 i stop at competence 13:18:22 80-20 rule :P 13:18:27 20 percent of my time 13:18:40 80% mastery = comptence 13:18:44 fuck the other 20% :P 13:19:09 i'm a generalist 13:19:14 competence in EVERY field 13:19:44 More like you can't do anything useful in _any_ field. 13:19:50 Not saying I'm better, but still... 13:20:10 well maybe i'm not supposed to DO anything 13:20:22 my P is nearly 100% 13:20:22 i never deliberately specialise, just find myself doing stuff i enjoy most a lot 13:20:38 which means i'm primarily an observer 13:20:46 i'm a visionary too 13:21:11 i dunno what i am, but i'm continually coming up with crazy ideas and never quite finishing anything 13:21:12 i spend my time envisioning ideas, ways to change the world etc 13:21:26 Topaz: how old are you? 13:21:41 I don't _really_ specialize, but of course I do some things more than others. 13:21:45 19 13:21:50 young 'uns 13:21:51 Oldie. 13:22:01 heh :P 13:22:07 i'm currently bored stiff of soldering 13:22:12 i've spent the day soldering my LED matrix... 13:22:36 i built a metronome a few months ago 13:22:50 but i didn't finish it up by putting it into a nice box 13:22:56 and therefore i didn't use it at all 13:22:57 bleh 13:23:46 Robert: on the other hand, i've been suffering depression for the last 3 years 13:23:58 my current state might not be my normal state 13:23:59 heh 13:24:28 for some reason the new nvidia 3d drivers crsh my machine when i run 3d apps :( 13:24:31 like my game 13:24:41 depression is marked by a chronic lack of willpower & inability to even work 13:24:56 yeah i found out i was depressed by taking some tests for it at the counsellor recently 13:25:17 and i was like "holy shit, this means i've been depressed for the last 3-4-5 years or more" 13:25:23 gay shit 13:26:36 but 13:26:48 MOST people in their early 20s suffer depression 13:26:50 so 13:27:10 lalala 13:27:17 yaking 13:27:25 yaking for the sake of the yaks 13:28:15 I don't suffer from depression. 13:28:23 If you do, wouldn't you notice? 13:29:22 not really, depression clouds your thinking 13:29:49 like you might thinkg "hey i might be depressed" but you won't trust it or you'll just shrug it off "ehh" 13:29:57 you won't be sure about it 13:30:50 and for the most part you won't really notice it 13:30:56 your spirits are just down 13:30:59 tho chronically 13:32:39 --- quit: slava (Remote closed the connection) 13:36:10 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:36:17 hmm, it only seems to crash if i run my game fullscreen. 13:45:09 --- quit: slava (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:49:18 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:49:27 sorry about the join/leave flood, i'm trying to debug a problem 13:50:00 i reverted to the 4xxx version of the 3d driver. 13:50:07 if it keeps crashing, then i can blame my xfree 4.4 upgrade :) 13:50:10 but i hope it doesn't 13:54:39 --- join: ADD-101 (~ADD-101@12-222-128-22.client.insightBB.com) joined #forth 13:57:27 slava dont need to appologize, we all know yer not a skript kiddie trying to flood us off :) 13:58:52 Hehe 14:05:37 who is add-101 14:07:08 A good guess would be an old Forth coder 14:07:44 well i messaged him and he/she isnt responding lol 14:10:07 Then sort him under the "it" category ;) 14:13:39 --- quit: ADD-101 (Remote closed the connection) 14:19:21 * slava registers #factor :) 14:19:49 people are welcome to go idle there ;) 14:51:59 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 15:04:15 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:31:24 --- join: FlamingRain (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:47:40 --- join: doublec (~doublec@coretech.co.nz) joined #forth 15:54:31 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 16:14:27 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 16:14:28 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 17:07:44 --- join: mur (~mur@uiah.fi) joined #forth 17:19:57 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:41:35 --- nick: TomasuDlrrp -> Tomasu 17:41:38 * Tomasu is back (gone 13:35:46) 18:00:44 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 18:01:00 --- join: FlamingRain (~Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 18:12:15 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:13:11 wow 18:13:12 spammy 18:13:19 lot of people joining & quiting 18:14:01 hey OrngeTide 18:14:20 i'm getting a bit annoyed at my multitasking code. 18:15:15 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 18:16:44 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 18:17:19 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 18:18:31 how long has kc5tja been away from the chan? 18:19:52 dunno 18:20:29 its a pity that he put the kestrel project aside. 18:20:33 i wonder what he's coding now. 18:21:03 he did? :( 18:21:45 yea, since the stack cpu design was patented 18:24:11 --- join: factorbot (~factorbot@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 18:24:17 eval 2 2 + . 18:24:18 4 18:24:46 quit 18:24:46 --- quit: factorbot (Remote closed the connection) 18:25:09 :) 18:25:19 is it coded in forth? 18:25:48 no, its coded in my langauge. 18:26:16 ok 18:26:19 gtg 18:26:28 --- part: thin left #forth 18:33:40 eval drop 18:33:57 eval 2 2 + . 18:33:57 Ahh, too late. 18:34:03 oh 18:34:06 --- join: factorbot (~factorbot@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 18:34:09 slava, stack cpus are patented? 18:34:10 here he is ;) 18:34:15 eval drop 18:34:16 OrngeTide, i think so, ask kc5. 18:34:27 madgarden, that won't do anything, it resets the stack after each eval 18:34:29 eval drop drop drop drop 18:34:30 ERROR: Signal 10 18:34:30 Stacks have been reset. 18:34:30 :s :r :n :c show stacks at time of error. 18:34:40 OK, I just wanted an error. 18:34:43 eval fuidsfhdsaif4w 18:34:43 :1: "Not a number" 18:34:44 fuidsfhdsaif4w 18:34:44 ^ 18:34:44 Stacks have been reset. 18:34:44 :s :r :n :c show stacks at time of error. 18:34:57 just stuff like machineforth or stack cpus in general? cuz i would think there is prior art for stack cpus in general. 18:34:59 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 18:35:05 i'll have to bug kc5 about it 18:35:26 eval "irc" words. 18:35:26 [ clear-irc-quit-flag irc irc-action irc-action-handler irc-action-quot irc-eval irc-input irc-join irc-loop irc-message irc-quit-flag irc-register irc-stream-write irc-test keep-datastack with-irc-stream ] 18:35:38 see irc-action-handler 18:35:38 IN: irc 18:35:38 : irc-action-handler 18:35:38 " " split1 swap irc-action-quot call ; 18:36:01 see keep-datastack 18:36:02 IN: irc 18:36:02 : keep-datastack 18:36:02 datastack [ 18:36:02 call 18:36:02 ] dip set-datastack drop ; 18:36:17 anyway, enough of that ;) 18:36:17 quit 18:36:17 --- quit: factorbot (Remote closed the connection) 18:46:35 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 19:00:24 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 19:00:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Herkamire 19:00:30 hi Herkamire 19:02:38 --- join: Teratogen (~leontopod@intertwingled.net) joined #forth 19:14:04 --- part: slava left #forth 19:16:37 hi slava 19:27:35 slavvering slava 19:30:06 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.103.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 19:35:00 --- join: mur_ (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 19:46:02 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:09:07 oh, I'm getting better at rockdodger 4.2 again :) 20:40:44 --- quit: Herkamire (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:44 --- quit: warpzero (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:44 --- quit: doublec (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:44 --- quit: skylan (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:44 --- quit: Tomasu (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:44 --- quit: onetom (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:44 --- quit: aphasia (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:44 --- quit: Robert (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:45 --- quit: titanstar (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:45 --- quit: OrngeTide (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:45 --- quit: Teratogen (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:45 --- quit: I440r (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:40:45 --- quit: lyca (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:41:17 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.103.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: Teratogen (~leontopod@intertwingled.net) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: doublec (~doublec@coretech.co.nz) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: skylan (~sjh@vickesh01-4677.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-bf5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: Tomasu (~moose@S010600045a4c73cc.ed.shawcable.net) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: lyca (alycat@rasterburn.org) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: aphasia (d@ip-65-75-40-47.ct.gemini.ntplx.com) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- join: titanstar (runehol@wirth.ping.uio.no) joined #forth 20:41:17 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o Herkamire 21:12:33 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool36-66.nas35.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 21:15:09 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 21:27:08 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:49:01 --- join: crc_ (crc@0-1pool32-27.nas34.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 21:49:13 --- quit: crc (Nick collision from services.) 21:49:23 --- nick: crc_ -> crc 21:53:43 * Tomasu is away: stuff 21:59:08 --- quit: Herkamire ("the best things in life aren't things") 22:01:55 --- join: crc_ (crc@0-1pool48-9.nas38.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 22:02:48 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:17:30 --- join: mur_ (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 22:17:56 --- nick: crc_ -> crc 22:25:03 --- quit: crc ("Time for bed... Goodnight All!") 22:28:54 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:40:53 --- quit: doublec ("Leaving") 23:32:12 --- join: crc (crc@33-pool1.ras11.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) joined #forth 23:59:56 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.08.22