00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.08.20 00:59:02 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 00:59:28 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool32-29.nas34.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 01:10:22 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:01:27 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 02:12:47 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:26:12 --- join: mur_ (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 02:31:49 Can anyone give me better definitions for these two words? 02:31:49 : 2swap rot >r rot r> ; 02:31:50 : 2over >r >r 2dup r> -rot r> -rot ; 02:34:00 what are the stack frames? 02:34:09 2swap is ( a b c d - c d a b ) 02:34:13 what about 2over? 02:34:54 2swap seems pretty good 02:35:28 The result of executing 2over is: 02:35:28 it seems to me that 2over is ( a b c d - a b c d a b ) :) 02:35:28 1 2 3 4 02:35:28 2over 02:35:28 . . . . . . 02:35:28 2 1 4 3 2 1 02:35:50 is it supposed to switch like that? :/ 02:35:55 * arke guesses not 02:36:11 * arke is currently configuring ion 02:36:54 It switches in gForth and Win32Forth 02:37:02 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:37:50 jeezus, do you really need those? lol 02:38:23 One of the other developers uses them a lot :-) 02:38:39 1 2 3 4 2over . . . . 02:38:42 2 1 4 3 02:38:48 hmm 02:38:51 oh 02:38:54 i got a good one 02:39:02 one that shouldn't switch either 02:39:07 Err, 2swap for that last entry 02:39:18 oh 02:39:21 I think they're supposed to switch 02:39:26 thats a different semantic for 2swap than most 02:39:29 :/ 02:39:32 They do in gForth 02:39:39 oh well 02:39:43 * arke messes with ion 02:39:56 arke: use RatPoison :-) 02:41:40 hehe 02:41:46 naah ion is nice 02:42:00 and so is evilwm :P 02:42:40 I normally use RatPoison or aewm 02:45:11 ratpoison is alot like evilwm, IIRCD 02:45:42 I thought that evilwm was more like aewm 02:46:14 hrm, im wrong 02:46:25 evilwm is more like aewm, ratpoision is like ion 02:46:37 Ok 02:46:55 Except I have no use for the tabs that Ion provides 02:47:08 And no desire to install Lua to run a window manager 02:47:51 but ion is infinetely extendable :) 02:47:59 and more and more apps are using lua anyway 02:48:33 WindowLab looks interesting too 02:48:53 If you want an extendable window manager, add Forth to it :-) 02:49:28 hehehe 02:49:32 thats a good idea actually 02:49:37 a FICL extended window manager 02:49:37 :) 02:49:42 100% Forth 02:49:58 only a bit of C to wrap FICL around Xlib 02:49:59 :) 02:50:36 I suppose you could use gForth and that FFCALL (or whatever it's called) thing to do it without C 02:51:04 true. 02:51:15 but it would probably be easier to wrap FICL :) 02:51:20 Probably 02:51:30 * crc likes FICL better than gForth anyway 02:51:57 especially because you dont have to wrap the entire thing - you can do it like ion and provide an abstraction that lets you deal with it without the xlib ugliness 02:53:49 I'd probably just embed RetroForth into aewm 02:56:26 :) 02:56:27 I don't know the FICL source code well enough to extend it very much 03:03:19 :) 03:03:27 i should, technically, sleep 03:03:31 but I want to finish configuring ion 03:03:32 :) 03:04:28 bah, who needs sleep? ;-) 03:07:31 :) 03:11:17 i do 03:11:17 :P 03:11:20 --- nick: mur_ -> mur 03:16:12 Country Song Generator 1.0 - Generates humorous song lyrics. 03:16:15 hmm 03:18:39 * crc is searching for an alternative to X11 03:20:16 crc: Y :) 03:20:25 crc: although its not too far yet 03:20:34 crc: but they make daily progess 03:23:56 --- quit: mur (Remote closed the connection) 03:24:28 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 03:25:07 Y has too much overhead for what I want 03:25:25 I just need something that will let me have a lot of terminal windows open on screen at one time 03:26:46 'screen' would work, but I don't like it too much... 03:27:38 heh 03:27:49 edit the screen source and change the key bindings :) 03:27:53 screen is a great tool 03:33:56 screen requires tools (autoconf, automake, etc) that I don't have 03:34:42 MGR appears to be closer to what I want 03:40:16 jeez 03:40:19 what DO you have? 03:40:35 (and also, it wont require the tools as configure is prebuilt) 03:40:42 ...i think 03:44:21 I have GCC, but not the auto* tools 03:44:28 Which are useless IMO 03:45:01 Just give me a plain Makefile or build script 03:45:14 :) 03:45:19 I can adjust the dependencies myself! 03:45:34 * crc dislikes the GNU approach to tools 03:47:35 I'm slowly getting the V7 tools to run under FreeBSD, Linux, and BeOS 03:48:58 * crc likes V7 04:00:26 whats V7? 04:00:34 UNIX Version 7 04:02:33 Released by Caldera (now SCO) under a BSD license 04:03:06 I obtained a lot of the source from this project: http://freshmeat.net/projects/v7upgrade/ 04:04:46 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:05:34 intersting 04:05:41 heh 04:05:48 i accidentally mapped 'A' 04:05:54 so I couldn't type 'A' in X 04:05:55 :) 04:06:04 don't even know what I mapped it to, but it didn't do anything 04:06:08 oh well its fixed 04:07:03 playing with xkb stuff? 04:07:33 Another 500kb and I'll have all of the source code for MGR; then to work on getting it to compile under FreeBSD... 04:10:10 oh, Ion. 04:10:29 I liked the old ion. The one that didn't use Lua. 04:10:43 The one with Lua does some pretty screwy things. 04:16:27 tathi: no, configuring ion :) 04:16:43 tathi: ion is nice, but not one key combo is the way i would like it 04:16:51 tathi: so today i decided to screw it :) 04:17:02 except that its tomorrow already 04:17:07 and i aint getting any decent sleep 04:17:17 but who cares, my window manager is configured! :P 04:19:17 cool. 04:20:07 The way Ion2 works simply doesn't match my user model. I've been using it for a while, but it simply won't do what I want it to, so I'm switching back. 04:25:20 What is it that you want it to do? 04:25:33 (it works well for me, now that I've got my keys straightened out) 04:28:04 Well, I like to cycle through my windows with keys laid out like arrow keys. 04:28:15 ehehe 04:28:18 Three workspaces vertically, and then tabs with the horizontal keys 04:28:39 Thats configurable. :) 04:28:45 Yeah. 04:28:55 (the only problem, once again, its a bitch to reconfigure all the keys) 04:29:18 but I'm happy, I've got it all figured out now 04:29:35 But...Ion2 has a key to switch the current window to fullscreen. 04:29:44 s/switch/toggle/ 04:30:04 when you switch it back to tabbed, it creates a *new* workspace to put it in, instead of putting it back where it was. 04:30:45 Similar weird things happen when you try to move windows between workspaces. 04:31:41 Well, i guess they can all be fixed with some lua coding. 04:31:48 But who wants to take the time? 04:31:52 I might just be an exception :P 04:32:01 No, they can't be fixed AFAICT 04:32:23 Well, maybe they can, but it would be a total bitch. 04:32:34 The underlying design is just wrong. 04:33:15 Conceptually, when you toggle to fullscreen, it has to remove that window from the workspace, because the workspace is a container that renders tabs for each of the objects it contains. 04:33:45 Then when you toggle back, it doesn't know where to put it. 04:34:19 I want it to be fullscreen, but still be able to use my keys to switch to other apps *exactly* as if it weren't fullscreen. 04:34:47 Basically I want fullscreen to just turn off tabs on the current workspace if a certain window is active. 04:35:05 Though I guess I wouldn't mind if it just turned off tabs across all workspaces and windows. 04:35:09 But that's just not how Ion2 works. 04:35:32 :/ 04:35:52 So whatever. 04:35:55 I'll just switch back. 04:36:02 hey 04:36:04 could be worse 04:36:05 :) 04:36:08 yeah. 04:36:13 you could be STUCK with one window manager 04:36:16 (Windows) 04:36:20 :) 04:36:29 I don't think I've ever seriously used Windows. 04:36:56 I used DOS for a while, then switched to Macs :) 04:37:51 I like to look at Linux as a temporary thing, anyway. 04:37:54 :) 04:37:58 argh 04:38:07 rox is acting up for some reason 04:38:08 oh well 04:38:11 I'm just using it until I get around to getting my own OS up and running and usable. :) 04:38:23 rox is an audio player? 04:38:30 no 04:38:37 best file manager ever 04:38:38 :) 04:38:47 Oh, right. 04:40:08 * arke consults firefox 04:40:33 a.k.a. google :) 04:41:20 bah, use dillo :P 04:43:06 heh 04:43:08 i have both 04:44:03 me too. 04:44:13 For some things, you actually need firefox 04:44:16 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 04:44:35 yep 04:44:38 like gmail 04:45:28 have you seen firesomething? 04:45:46 :) 04:45:49 :) 04:45:54 yay, got rox working 04:54:02 ok, will sleep now 04:54:03 night! 04:55:04 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:09:20 * Tomasu is away: morning 05:09:24 --- nick: Tomasu -> TomasuDlrrp 05:45:05 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 05:55:41 --- join: SDO (~SDO@67-23-111-213.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 06:13:38 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 07:06:53 --- join: snowrichard (richard@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 07:10:03 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 07:13:27 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 07:14:02 --- quit: SDO (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:14:02 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 08:10:19 --- join: poing_ (~chuck@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 08:34:57 --- quit: poing_ (Remote closed the connection) 09:10:18 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 09:14:24 --> poing_ (~chuck@64-121-15-14.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) has joined #forth 09:14:33 that wouldnt have been chipchuck would it ? 09:14:35 ! 09:18:56 hi 09:22:07 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:24:31 I440r, uh... stalker? 09:24:33 ;P 09:46:53 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 10:09:08 eh ? 10:09:08 lol 10:09:20 im at WORK 10:09:22 ya know ??? 10:09:27 where the MONEY comes from!!! 10:09:28 lol 10:09:33 and im a LURKER 10:09:35 :P 10:22:11 --- quit: mur_ (Remote closed the connection) 10:22:43 --- join: mur (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 10:42:09 I'm at work too. D'oh. 11:00:35 --- join: ASau (~root@217.16.31.100) joined #forth 11:00:43 Dobryjj vecher! 11:00:52 Good news. 11:01:26 I've made significant changes to my RNG subproject. 11:02:05 Now you have working (tested!) fast and reliable RNG for simulation. 11:02:21 Sources for 32-bit Gforth. 11:02:55 what's RNG? 11:03:04 Other parts still in progress. 11:03:12 Random number generator. 11:03:39 Errata: ...parts _are_... 11:04:21 a fancy one? 11:04:56 Not the best, but very good one. 11:06:15 cool 11:06:21 I just did a very simple one 11:06:48 Also, I've reduces code size 2 to 1. 11:06:56 Adding some documentation. 11:07:42 mine is just: : -random rnd-seed @ $10450405 * 1+ dup rl9 rnd-seed ! ; 11:08:01 It's still very far from being complete, but working part is good sign. 11:08:11 rl9 is a 32-bit rotate to the left 11:08:28 Herkamire: RNGs of this kind are not good. 11:08:47 plenty good enough for my purposes 11:09:05 There're co-related subsequencies etc. 11:09:27 I just wanted something to deal the cards for this silly little number game: http://herkamire.com/jason/herkforth_fun 11:10:21 You may take the sources and find there 4 congruental RNGs with period of 2^32. 11:10:51 Maybe even more, 5 or 6 ones. 11:14:03 hi 11:14:21 I stayed up until 5am configuring my window manager....lol 11:14:32 Herkamire: Ion is teh best once its configured 11:21:17 --- join: SDO (~SDO@67-23-111-213.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 11:24:20 arke: damn straight 11:24:35 ASau: true, it should repeat it's self at most every 2^32 11:24:53 but that's fine for my current purposes 11:26:20 I'm just using about 10 random numbers from 1..12 every so often 11:30:40 yeah. I just wanted something simple. 11:30:50 this one isn't good if you want 32-bit numbers 11:31:00 as you will never get the same one in a row twice 11:31:09 etc 11:47:30 Herkamire, you can use congruental RNG of the simplest form. 11:47:49 : random seed @ N * dup seed ! ; 11:48:28 You can take N so, that you get 2^32 periodic sequence. 11:48:41 In case you have 32 bit arithmetic. 11:49:16 Bernoulli shift is well enough distributed. 11:50:40 If you don't run into corelation between subsequencies, that's enough. 12:16:41 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@mi048.dn179.umontana.edu) joined #forth 12:17:04 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 12:18:39 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:27:25 --- quit: madgarden_ (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:27:25 --- quit: ianp (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:27:25 --- quit: arke (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:27:26 --- quit: Robert (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:27:49 --- join: arke (arke@adsl-69-211-105-134.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #forth 12:28:23 quickest way to be back with friends during netsplit - /reconnecct 12:28:25 --- quit: SDO (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:28:48 --- join: madgarden_ (~madgarden@Toronto-HSE-ppp3706683.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 12:28:48 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-bf5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 12:28:48 --- join: ianp (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 12:29:52 --- part: slava left #forth 12:37:59 --- join: SDO (~SDO@67-23-111-213.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:47:57 ASau: but that wouldn't be able to hit zero 12:48:40 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-160-164-7.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 12:49:05 Sonarman: <3 13:00:47 -inf..2 13:01:21 ... i didnt mean it that way 13:06:38 it's just that i don't really love you anymore 13:06:52 so i couldn't interpret that as a heart 13:06:54 i'm sorry 13:07:39 anyway, i was wrong: it's -inf..(3-1/inf) 13:11:46 yoyu dont love me anymore? :/ 13:14:13 i... i... i... oh! yes i do! 13:15:05 there we go :){ 13:15:23 --- join: FlamingRain (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 13:47:35 * TomasuDlrrp is back (gone 08:38:17) 13:47:41 --- nick: TomasuDlrrp -> Tomasu 13:47:59 --- join: mur (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 13:54:05 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:54:08 madgarden_, ping 13:54:17 hi 13:54:27 pong 13:54:31 just kidding :) 13:56:08 WOAH 13:56:16 huge tree thingy in driveway 13:58:14 Herkamire, that's not a problem. 13:58:29 How frequently do you generate a random number? 13:59:24 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:59:27 You can use the next to the simplest approach: 13:59:45 : random seed @ A * S + dup seed ! ; 14:00:30 ASau: it's not a problem, I'm just being a stickler. I'm thinking maybe since it doesn't hit zero, it wouldn't hit some other numbers too 14:00:35 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 14:00:48 I'm happy with my multiply, add, rotate thing for now. 14:01:01 No, zero is the only number it does not reach. 14:01:36 oh, cool 14:01:47 I only point you're able to reduce number of operations in your RNG. 14:02:38 ASau: yeah, I could. what I have is overkill for my solitair game 14:02:47 Herkamire, it can be easily proven: 14:03:02 if you give me a good constant for the simple multiply, I'd save that for future use 14:03:22 If you've reached zero, that means you have found N, 14:03:35 such that N*2^32 = A*K. 14:03:54 That's impossible unless K is k*2^32. 14:04:27 K is chosen to have only 1 common divisor with 2^32. 14:09:01 I don't know what N, K or A or k stand for, so I don't quite follow 14:15:04 --- quit: SDO ("Vision[0.9.6-0203]: i've been blurred!") 14:19:01 * arke is ripping the blue collar comedy tour 14:19:35 arke, i think the forth convention of requiring words to be defined before use (as opposed to lisp automatically interning symbols) is the greatest idea ever :) 14:20:20 this allows having the same name do different things at different times 14:20:23 which might be useful 14:20:25 :) 14:20:47 only thing that annoys me is gforth telling me "redefined asdf" 14:21:43 arke: warnings off 14:22:07 that'll shut it up 14:23:22 pleasure :) 14:27:37 Herkamire: do you happen to know how to retrieve the current terminal size 14:27:38 ? 14:28:36 would it be incredibly offensive to allow overriding ; using a ;-hook? 14:30:20 why do you need a ; hook? 14:30:29 metacompiling 14:30:37 you're allowed to do it, the question is why... 14:30:41 oh 14:30:44 uum 14:30:53 why not just relocate the dictionary pointer? 14:30:56 and CFA? 14:31:07 err lfa 14:31:24 --- join: FlamingRain (~Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 14:34:03 --- join: lyca (alycat@rasterburn.org) joined #forth 14:34:36 has orngetide been around here recently? 14:37:17 Herkamire, A is defined earlier, it's your multiplier, 14:37:33 K and k are integer numbers. 14:37:44 K and N... 14:39:17 Slava, don't make hooks, redefine words. 14:45:03 lyca: not according to seenserv 14:45:19 lyca: you could check the logs for when he was here last 14:50:12 RFC 1438 guys 14:50:56 arke - i don't know how to do any of that weird freenode stuff. :P 14:51:21 \msg seenserv help? 14:57:46 arghghghgh my CD drive is so screwed up 14:57:52 it rips at 0.3x for example 14:57:57 i cant play music from it 14:57:59 because it skips 14:58:03 and its really slow 14:58:07 not jus tin linux, in window too 15:01:39 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 15:03:30 --- join: gimpf (~gimpf@213.229.22.154) joined #forth 15:03:36 --- part: gimpf left #forth 15:04:02 --- join: mur_ (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 15:04:13 Terve 15:06:29 terve 15:12:57 moi 15:13:01 eikun, terve 15:14:20 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:20:59 God kvaell! 15:22:28 Dobryjj den, ASau :) 15:30:09 --- part: slava left #forth 15:41:07 --- join: mur (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 15:44:28 Hm. 15:45:03 What about -ROLL ( x_n ... x_1 n -- x_1 x_n ... x_2 ) ? 15:53:15 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:53:58 Well. 15:54:11 Spokojjnojj nochi! 15:54:16 --- quit: ASau ("leaving") 15:55:08 --- join: FlamingRain (~Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:59:19 --- quit: warpzero ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 16:10:49 --- join: thin (thin@horizon.fasthost.net) joined #forth 16:10:59 i'm rick james, bitch! 16:11:48 lol 16:16:51 --- join: mur_ (~mur@kyberias.uiah.fi) joined #forth 16:17:54 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 16:28:30 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:48:21 --- join: FlamingRain (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 16:48:21 --- part: thin left #forth 16:51:00 --- quit: FlamingRain (Client Quit) 18:19:55 --- join: imaginator (~George@georgeps.dsl.xmission.com) joined #forth 18:33:41 hihi 18:33:45 --- nick: madgarden_ -> madgarden 18:40:38 --- join: FlamingRain (Ecoder@c-24-129-95-254.se.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 19:08:48 --- quit: FlamingRain ("Leaving") 19:10:43 --- join: jDoctor (~rex@pcp08550359pcs.manass01.va.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:26:55 --- quit: jDoctor ("Leaving") 20:09:24 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.103.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 20:26:40 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:31:07 * Tomasu is away: nigit 20:31:14 --- nick: Tomasu -> TomasuDlrrp 20:36:08 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.103.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 20:51:05 --- join: SDO (~SDO@67-23-111-213.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 21:15:42 In this (rather old) physics book, it states, "When one holds out a 1-lb. block of wood, the earth-pull on it is balanced by the up-push of one's hand, and the block remains at rest. Release it, and the unbalanced force of the earth's attraction produces an acceleration of approximately 32 ft./sec.^2" 21:17:34 i thought that the gravitational acceleration was 9.8 ft/sec^2. am i missing something, or were they just wrong back then 21:17:38 ? 21:18:29 oh, never mind :) 21:18:52 <- stupid 21:30:42 --- quit: SDO (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:32:31 --- join: SDO (~SDO@67-23-111-213.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 21:38:20 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 21:56:59 * warpzero is away: Divided we stand / united we fall / forward into the future 22:03:38 sonar - metric vs english. 22:14:40 --- join: thin (thin@horizon.fasthost.net) joined #forth 22:14:51 --- part: thin left #forth 22:42:02 --- join: thin (thin@horizon.fasthost.net) joined #forth 22:42:05 ph33r!!!!!!!!!!! 22:42:21 --- nick: thin -> cduce 22:42:35 --- nick: cduce -> thin 22:42:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 22:44:47 i said ph33333r!!! 22:44:49 sing it with me! 22:44:55 ph33r ph33r ph33r t3h b33r! 22:46:10 ph33r! ph33r! ph33r t3h l33t! 22:46:11 ph33r! ph33r! ph33r t3h l33t! 22:46:14 sonar's mind is not so clear 22:46:27 thin (ph33r) kick4ss (ph33r) 22:46:32 * arke busts out freestyle 22:46:48 the sonar goes beeep... beeeep... beeeep 22:47:02 but sonarman goes beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep 22:47:21 only on american telivisions 22:47:24 yo da sonarman dont cum just a little @ a time 22:47:26 yah 22:47:41 tele 22:47:43 da sonarman keep going wid da C U M on da B I T C H 22:47:52 now arke is getting sexual! 22:47:56 this is arke's sexual state! 22:48:04 sexual state of FUNKY! 22:48:06 ph33r the sexual! 22:48:24 break it out! 22:48:29 bring the house down! 22:48:57 cuz if you dun like da big dick go suck one u will be converted 22:49:05 lol 22:49:23 --- mode: thin set +o arke 22:49:49 --- mode: thin set +o Sonarman 22:49:50 you suck, arke!! 22:50:20 hey, the humoristic quality of my jab isn't there when i'm opped! 22:50:36 heheh 22:51:25 --- mode: thin set +o Herkamire 22:51:35 now I have to kick someone, right? 22:51:38 --- kick: arke was kicked by arke (arke) 22:51:42 --- join: arke (arke@adsl-69-211-105-134.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #forth 22:51:58 --- mode: Sonarman set +o arke 22:52:15 --- mode: arke set -o arke 22:52:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 22:52:31 --- mode: arke set -o arke 22:52:33 ok. 22:53:15 i told arke the requirement for his op powers is that he has to kick 5 people 22:53:22 cuz i'm a bastah! bastah! 22:53:50 he said that AFTER the op 22:53:56 originally, it was only one 22:53:57 hehe 22:54:00 and i kicked myself 22:54:06 no it wasn't only one 22:54:06 and thats enough 22:54:09 you assumed that 22:54:11 you assumer! 22:54:14 i dont want to get banned from here. 22:54:18 banned? 22:54:23 no one can ban you except me 22:54:44 besides with ops you can unban yourself 22:54:45 but i can get people pissed off 22:54:47 bad enough 22:54:57 and that is bullshit - kc5tja, i440r, the whole crew 22:54:59 they can ban me 22:55:12 if people don't take the kick seriously then they won't get pissed off 22:55:31 --- kick: arke was kicked by Sonarman (Sonarman) 22:55:42 --- join: arke (arke@adsl-69-211-105-134.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #forth 22:55:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 22:55:48 --- mode: arke set -o arke 22:55:48 you don't have auto rejoin? tsk tsk :P 22:55:52 no 22:55:54 autorejoin sucks 22:56:03 yeah i know 22:56:08 unless you're getting kicked regularly 22:56:23 --- mode: thin set +o arke 22:56:29 --- mode: arke set -o arke 22:56:30 --- mode: thin set +v arke 22:56:34 --- mode: thin set +o arke 22:56:35 --- mode: arke set -v arke 22:56:38 --- mode: arke set -o arke 22:56:42 --- mode: thin set +q arke!*@* 22:56:48 --- mode: thin set -q arke!*@* 22:56:51 --- mode: thin set +o arke 22:56:58 go on, kick me 22:57:08 no 22:57:09 luke, i am your father! 22:57:18 join me and together we will rule the universe! 22:57:30 if the requirement of being op is using them unrightfully, then id rather not 22:57:46 i asked to be kicked 22:57:51 how is that wrong 22:57:58 --- kick: thin was kicked by arke (arke) 22:58:02 --- mode: arke set -o arke 22:58:04 --- join: thin (thin@horizon.fasthost.net) joined #forth 22:58:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 22:58:06 Kevorkian vs. United States Justice Department 22:58:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 22:58:30 --- kick: Sonarman was kicked by arke (arke) 22:58:33 --- mode: arke set -o arke 22:58:36 and that is all i will do. 22:58:38 * arke codes 22:58:39 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-160-164-7.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 22:58:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Sonarman 22:58:47 Sonarman: forgive, i had to. 22:58:47 heh 23:00:04 i don't have auto join invite either heh 23:00:17 i'm honored to contribute to your Initiation 23:00:32 sonarman 23:00:35 maybe you can help me 23:00:40 how can we make this channel cooler 23:00:46 it is cool :) 23:01:22 thin: innovat, experiment, and talk about what you're working on 23:01:38 thin: i like it the way it is :) 23:01:46 me too 23:01:46 :) 23:01:58 Herkamire: that won't make an impact on the uncool parts of the channel 23:02:20 thin: whats uncool? 23:02:39 me! 23:02:44 quantity is the only regard in which it can be improved 23:02:55 meaning more interesting discussions 23:02:55 yes. 23:03:06 ok more interesting discussions 23:03:16 but to get that we have to reduce the number of uninterseting discussions 23:03:36 not really 23:03:38 not really 23:03:45 because the uninteresting discussions take up the time the interesting discussions could have 23:04:15 no; uninteresting discussions take place during times in which there aren't any interesting discussions 23:05:00 except that maybe an uninteresting discussion-in-progress might deter one from initiating an interesting disc. 23:05:12 well when people are yaking about boring completely off topic discussions, its hard to get back on topic 23:05:12 actually, the interesting discussions will displace the uninteresting ones. 23:05:21 thin: not true. 23:05:36 except for the fact taht uninteresting discussions SUCK THE SOUL FORCE OUT OF US! 23:05:52 thin: its quite often that we're talking about kiddie porn and all of a sudden somebody has this really interesting question (like madgarden yesterday) and then everybody talks about that 23:05:54 often non-forth discussions are extremely interesting 23:06:23 only when its generated by the intelligent people 23:06:42 yes. so we need kc to be here more often :) 23:07:09 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 23:07:26 kc is a crutch 23:07:32 this channel needs to be cool on its own heh 23:07:37 kc is welcome here 23:07:43 but #forth shouldn't suck when kc isn't here 23:07:43 heh 23:07:51 it doesn't :) 23:07:55 well, thats why we have Herkamire 23:07:59 and Sonarman 23:08:00 thin, then make the channle interesting instead of just bitching 23:08:01 and madgarden 23:08:11 and Robert 23:08:15 sonarman: are you active on #forth ? 23:08:25 i shouldn't have said that; there are a lot of other people too like the ones arke named 23:08:26 sonarman is VERY active 23:08:44 i'm not when the discussions get very deep :) 23:08:47 forth is dead :) 23:08:55 ding dong the witch is dead! 23:09:08 which old witch? the wicked witch 23:10:05 hey 23:10:10 don't go quiet on me 23:10:13 thats not polite 23:10:14 :/ 23:10:30 why do you think i started singing the ph33r song 23:10:34 it gets attention 23:10:46 VOTE TIME! 23:10:58 who should get ops?! 23:11:03 hah 23:11:05 Herkamire, Robert 23:11:14 nobody should have ops 23:11:23 hmm nobody 23:11:24 ok 23:11:27 what do you need ops for? 23:11:39 for intimidating people 23:11:40 there should be one op at all times 23:11:42 this isn't like #java where there is a high ratio of idiots needing to be banned 23:11:44 for CONTROL ;) 23:11:45 but not 50 ops at all times 23:11:54 * thin is anti-control 23:11:56 bleh 23:12:01 --- mode: thin set -o Herkamire 23:12:04 --- mode: thin set -o Sonarman 23:12:06 --- mode: thin set -o thin 23:12:17 so I vote Herkamire and Robert 23:14:31 * Sonarman agrees with arke 23:15:09 several years ago i had a bot in a channel controlling ops, but the bot got annoying so i kicked it, and he banned me 23:15:34 the bot took over the channel 23:15:37 hahaha 23:15:58 hehe :) 23:16:05 sounds like a cool bot 23:16:20 beware the machines 23:17:05 is there a case-insensitive COMPARE in the ans standard? 23:17:21 * slava waits for the 'fuck ans' comments :) 23:17:43 I440r isn't here :) 23:17:47 hehe 23:17:49 convert both strings to lowercase first :) 23:18:04 convert both strings to uippercase or lower case first 23:18:06 damn 23:18:12 slava, arke: d'oh. thank you :-) 23:18:20 --- quit: mur_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:21:48 the question is, why are we still rewriting such basic functinality 23:22:10 because we suck 23:23:43 its a good question 23:23:46 its an important question 23:23:58 thin doesnt care 23:24:14 and its a question THAT EVERY MOFO IN HERE SHOULD BE DILGENTLY WORKING ON ANSWERING INSTEAD OF STICKING THEIR HEADS IN THE DIRT AND CODING FORTHS IN OTHER LANGUAGES 23:24:34 arke thinks he cares more about #forth than i do 23:24:42 arke: thanks :) 23:25:14 he's not disillusioned by the fact that no one actually codes forth 23:25:18 it's all an illusion 23:25:37 people code forth. 23:25:43 just not while there sitting in here chatting ;) 23:25:45 plenty of people code forth. 23:26:00 i do, Herkamire, I440r, some of us here for a living 23:26:12 fucking OPENBOOT is forth 23:26:15 theres plenty of forth 23:26:20 its just that you dont care to see it 23:27:03 I think several factors contribute to the state of affairs where lots of people are coding basic stuff 23:27:28 firstly, we are mostly people who like building things from the ground up (or as close as we can reasonably get) 23:27:53 its a great learning experience 23:28:10 I've often asked myself why I'm creating my own forth when there are so many out there, and it's because I'm not happy with any of them. 23:28:28 I want a programming environment that I am happy to work in and improve 23:28:37 and not finding it, I'm creating it. 23:28:45 I wonder if many are like that as well. 23:29:07 seems to me that kc5tja and tathi and I440r are like that 23:29:25 arke: yeah, that too. many people are writing a forth to learn. That's part of my motivation 23:29:27 yeah 23:29:42 i admire that chuck moore drops all pretense of even trying to bring out software for other people 23:29:47 its all for himself 23:29:48 I really think a lot of it is the type of people though 23:29:55 most here are INTP 23:30:08 fucking INTPs 23:30:10 like me 23:30:11 :/ 23:30:18 we're more interested in finding out how things work, and experimenting. 23:30:26 i'm the super INTP of this channel 23:30:26 we don't like the long haul. we're not stick-with-it types 23:30:32 thin: except that you don't care. we do. 23:30:34 what is INTP? 23:30:40 slava: personality type 23:30:43 oh 23:30:45 introvert? 23:30:56 slava: http://herkamire.com/jason/forth_channel_personality_types 23:31:12 oh i remember now :) 23:31:16 slava: Introverted, iNtuitive, Thinking, Perceiving 23:31:41 amazingly true description of it here: http://thin.bespin.org/intp.html 23:31:59 I found it 97% flabbergastingly true 23:33:31 I get motivated and do a bunch of work when I'm experimenting with some new idea. 23:33:41 Where the Ti preference is strong, this drive can override the experiential element so strongly that the INTP will become quickly bored with anything that he has successfully analysed to the point of understanding it. 23:33:50 but I really have a hard time getting myself to work on my forth when it's just a matter of implementing common interface features 23:34:04 although i believe i was ISTP or something, not INTP 23:34:16 but INTP holds very true for me anyway 23:34:29 arke: yeah 23:34:31 Herkamire, as in GUI? 23:34:35 slava: no 23:34:49 slava: it just runs in the text terminal for now 23:34:59 I don't plan to do graphics under linux 23:35:10 a web UI is easy 23:35:11 eh, I probably will, but it will be annoyingly slow 23:35:14 arke, i was always here for a good year and a half or more before you even came here 23:35:21 I have no use for a web ui 23:35:24 around the time you came here i had started withdrawing from #forth 23:35:29 actually i withdrew from irc completely 23:35:29 I hate web browsers 23:35:32 for several months 23:35:34 I want interactivity 23:35:35 Herkamire, heh:) 23:35:53 Herkamire, well, a web browser is interactive to some extent, with dhtml and css tricks 23:36:10 nice storm here 23:36:12 poooring 23:36:19 phe 23:36:22 the old man is snoring 23:36:25 thin: yes. do you care now though? 23:36:44 slava: web browsers that support that crap are especially annoying 23:36:50 only reason you're here is because you're bored because you cant work on WC 23:37:10 WC? 23:37:12 Herkamire, hmm why? 23:37:23 slava: I don't know. horrible horrible interfaces 23:37:24 arke, absolutely but i'm disillusioned because i've tried to start projects such as the forth site a number of times but never completed it 23:37:30 arke, no i'm not bored right now 23:37:37 arke, bleh 23:37:42 nevermind 23:37:46 of all the browsers I've used, Lynx by far has the best human/computer interface 23:38:23 w3m is pretty good too. 23:38:37 I've switched to w3m. but anyway 23:38:53 how do you run w3m at the prompt? 23:39:00 w3m 23:39:03 i tried that 23:39:12 i got --help stuff 23:39:13 maybe you have to install it 23:39:18 oh, give it a url 23:39:21 w3m google.com 23:39:23 hmm 23:39:24 ok 23:39:32 what about links? 23:39:36 i like it 23:39:37 nope, i am INTP 23:39:42 seems better than lynx 23:39:43 links interface sucks 23:39:44 jjust like i though 23:39:55 hehe 23:39:59 i am 100% introverted 23:40:08 arke: you got 100? 23:40:16 but 22% intuitive 23:40:22 I got 48-52 on all 23:40:28 did you do http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp ? 23:40:29 Herkamire, do you like the Oberon user interface? 23:40:32 thin: yes 23:40:38 i got extremely high numbers for INTP 23:40:38 100, 22, 78, 67 23:40:40 slava: never seen it 23:41:02 like 81 85 95 98 23:41:04 or something 23:41:19 really storming out there 23:41:25 i know my T and P were nearly 100% 23:41:36 a high P is no good tho 23:41:50 in terms of wether i actually DO anything 23:41:53 heh 23:42:05 Herkamire, http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/ 23:42:13 Herkamire, try it, its got some nice ideas. kc5 is big fan of it 23:44:00 whats the difference between INTP and ISTP? 23:44:16 s is for sensing 23:44:19 n is for intuitive 23:44:35 whats the difference 23:44:44 basically intuitive person builds a picture of the universe in his head 23:44:55 a sensing person focusing more on whats around him 23:45:12 aah 23:45:12 like a sensing person is more likely to notice the things in a room 23:45:18 22% is accurate for me then 23:45:19 functional -vs- object oriented programming 23:45:24 inuitive person is more likely to take in a big picture glance 23:45:25 slava: ? 23:45:30 functional relies on a global world view 23:45:31 sensing person will focus more on the details 23:45:33 oop is subjective and local 23:46:03 slava: wow, they know about ppc linux :) 23:46:06 thin: details are more important to me than the general picture often times. but when i go into a room, i dont look at details. 23:46:14 thin: like, when i studied pygmy 23:46:20 thin: i looked at every detail 23:46:32 thin: but i can't even draw a picture of my own room 23:46:36 from memory 23:46:53 i can't draw a picture of my room because there's too many overlapping layers of crud :) 23:47:13 slava, then you'll have a cruddy memory of your room 23:47:52 Herkamire, oberon has a 'text user interface' which is sort of like a web browser and command prompt combined 23:47:56 100% introverted means that i like to keep to myself thoug. 23:48:10 except that on IRC, I am a bit extroverted sometimes :) 23:48:11 well the thing is 23:48:17 i might be 85% introverted 23:48:32 er 23:48:32 yeah 23:48:34 actually 23:48:34 because you surf 23:48:37 so i dont doubt it 23:48:48 that you get 15% less than me 23:48:58 the I in INTP is more about where you get energy from 23:48:59 oh fuck i just did a replace all and mangled my file, but the problem is i already made a lot of changes since so i can't just undo 23:49:03 i only just noticed its mangled 23:49:06 not really about how extraverted you are socially 23:49:12 like i'm a party animal 23:49:12 grrrr... I hate it when people name a tarball differently than the directory within it 23:49:17 but i'm "introverted" 23:49:43 if you're going to give it a stupid name like Unix_Oberon_r238a_Src.tgz then the folder it unpacks to should be Unix_Oberon_r238a_Src 23:49:59 thin: ? 23:50:01 thin: explaion 23:50:42 if you look at thin.bespin.org/intp.html you'll see that it says Introverted Thinking and Extraverted Perceving (i think) 23:51:12 basically your dominant trait (Thinking is the dominant for INTPs) is introverted, it gets its energy from within 23:51:22 your secondary trait gets its energy the opposite way 23:51:35 its Perceving in this case, and it gets its energy from the external world 23:51:43 thats what the I in INTP means 23:51:45 ok, yeah 23:51:48 thats true 23:51:51 it doesn't really mean that you are a recluse 23:51:54 or shy 23:51:58 or not a party animal 23:51:59 etc 23:52:12 i will be sitting, minding my own business, suddenly somethinhg pops into my head and i become giddy 23:52:20 I'm kinda a recluse 23:52:26 but not exclusively 23:52:37 slava: how do I build it? 23:53:37 Herkamire, no idea 23:58:29 how the *#$&* am I supposed to try it if the source tarball doesn't come with one scrap of documentation 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.08.20