00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.07.24 00:07:02 --- join: snowrichard (richard@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 00:07:06 hello 00:08:11 http://richardsnow.is-a-geek.net:8000/geek.ogg.m3u 00:08:42 now playing :) 00:10:28 Dobry den! 00:12:26 ? 00:13:56 Good afternoon. 00:14:08 oh. it is 2:14 am here 00:14:59 11am here. 00:16:29 finally got the distortion out of my sound setup by going directly from tape out to the line in on the sound card that is my source for the stream. 00:20:02 --- quit: snowrichard (Remote closed the connection) 00:24:10 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:25:55 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-106.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 00:46:00 --- join: snowrichard (richard@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 00:47:35 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576090.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 00:50:52 wb mad 00:52:42 Morning snowrichard, madgarden, ASau 00:53:19 I am still testing my audio equipment. converting a cassette tape recording to ogg using Audacity right now. 00:56:39 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 01:01:22 Labas ritas! 01:02:57 Sorry, I don't know Lithuanian(?) either. ;) 01:05:08 God morgen. 01:05:23 God morgon, ASau :) 01:06:26 Sorry, I've failed to recall right spelling. 01:07:15 No problem, you can't know _everything_ 01:11:31 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 01:11:41 Yeah! The same bug once again! 01:12:07 I like C-style! 01:12:33 Hehe :D 01:12:46 Well, I will leave now (visiting an uncle in the north), see you later! 01:26:39 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:28:19 --- join: tgunr (~davec@vsat-148-63-4-106.c001.g4.mrt.starband.net) joined #forth 03:13:06 --- join: Topaz (~top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust117.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 03:19:09 --- join: krish (~krishna@61.1.220.168) joined #forth 03:19:14 --- part: krish left #forth 03:19:30 --- join: krish (~krishna@61.1.220.168) joined #forth 03:20:21 hi all! 03:24:07 --- part: krish left #forth 03:31:20 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 03:38:30 God dag, qFox! 03:45:12 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool88-52.nas48.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 03:50:27 * crc now has FreeBSD 5.2.1 installed :-) 03:53:56 Good morning, crc. 03:54:04 Congratulations. 03:54:15 How does it go? 03:55:09 Excellent 03:55:30 I wasn't crazy about the fdisk tool, but everything else in the install was smooth and easy 03:57:38 http://www.retroforth.org/dev/beta_releases/beta5a for the latest source + binaries 03:57:49 I found the bug in FASM 1.52 + libc 03:58:34 Open 'system.inc', search for 'call exit' and insert 'push dword 0' before it. 03:58:37 Then do 'fasm fasm.asm fasm.o' 03:58:43 'gcc fasm.o -o fasm' 03:59:06 And the makefiles for RetroForth/FreeBSD will work properly 03:59:38 (I'm including the fix with my update of the libc port to 1.53, but that's not done yet) 04:00:03 I thought you have not returned proper error code. 04:00:51 I'm trying to make sense of the error codes: they're not documented anywhere 04:00:58 I'll wait for 1.53 port. 04:01:02 So the temporary fix is to just return 0 :-) 04:01:03 Ok 04:01:09 I have other things to work on. 04:01:13 It *should* be ready this evening 04:03:13 Any non-zero error code means exception. 04:03:19 Zero is OK. 04:03:19 I know 04:03:33 But the code passes the return code in ax 04:03:37 make interpretes them. 04:04:06 It *never* is 0 after compiling as far as I can tell in my quick tests 04:04:21 Though the native Linux version does return the proper error codes... 04:04:35 * crc is going to compare the source line by line... 04:04:42 diff -r ? 04:04:51 Probably 04:05:11 I only need to compare 'fasm.asm' and 'system.inc' against the native versions 04:05:28 The rest of the code is portable across the various platforms 04:06:04 Is there a program to tell me the error code returned? 04:06:18 Something like 'errorcode fasm [arguments]'? 04:06:34 That would make life much easier... 04:12:24 Try echo $? 04:12:45 $? should expand to exit status of recent command. 04:13:38 Well, it works. 04:13:40 Cool 04:13:50 echo $? 04:13:54 ls w0ygdtgqn8vn0fw 04:13:55 echo $? 04:14:01 to check. 04:14:02 * crc will use 'echo $?' to aid in debugging this beast 04:14:10 I like it - thanks! 04:30:47 http://retro.tunes.org/fasm-1.53-beos.tar.gz for the FASM 1.53 + Libc 04:30:53 1) Decompress it 04:30:56 2) Run 'make' 04:31:18 3) cp source/BeOS/fasm WHERE-TO-INSTALL 04:31:30 It should work ok now... 04:35:20 --- join: crc_ (crc@0-1pool88-138.nas48.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 04:35:20 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 04:35:31 --- nick: crc_ -> crc 04:35:32 "Error code 8" now. 04:35:38 * crc sighs 04:35:51 I'll keep trying 04:36:01 This is a pain the the neck 04:38:03 What do you get if you do: 'fasm freebsd.asm ../bin/rf' and 'echo $?' 04:42:08 The damn thing works under Linux. Why doesn't it like FreeBSD or BeOS??? 04:42:15 8 04:42:52 What value do you push? 04:42:55 32 bit? 04:44:15 Yes 04:44:20 'push eax' 04:44:33 It returns '0' under Linux 04:44:54 '129' under BeOS R5 Pro 04:45:00 * crc sighs 04:46:14 har har 04:46:24 thats what you get for using dead operating systems 04:46:32 Ok, try it now (same URL) 04:47:02 BeOS is alive! Say it's dead on #beos or #haiku :-) 04:47:36 I changed it to 'push dword eax', maybe it'll make a difference 04:49:25 No changes: 8. 04:49:45 * crc sighs again 04:50:04 Ok, I'll try to work around it :-) 04:51:34 Wait a minute. 04:51:48 I'll look into "Handbook." 04:55:51 I implemented a temporary workaround: "cmp eax, 8" \ "jnz .a" \ "mov eax, 0" \ ".a: push dword eax" 04:58:24 Why not "push dword 0" then? 04:59:03 Because we want the error to be reported if there's a problem with the source being assembled 05:00:08 It's a temporary fix until I can spend more time debugging it (tomorrow) 05:01:18 Though if you don't care about error codes, 'push dword 0' will also work 05:02:50 Well, I care more about generating wrong code. 05:03:30 Makefile in FASM is not neccessary. 05:03:45 The source code is assembled correctly 05:04:59 Where can I find free hosting for Forth code I hope to release tomorrow? 05:05:11 2M will be sufficient. 05:05:21 I can give you an FTP account on retroforth.org if you like 05:05:43 I have problems with FTP. 05:06:21 Maybe I can do a web based uploader 05:06:26 * crc is checking... 05:06:47 btw, what's wrong with FTP? 05:06:47 Does HTTP have PUT method? 05:06:53 Not sure 05:07:09 Well, I'll check. 05:07:26 That's my problem at first. 05:08:01 If I get FTP, I have hosting. 05:08:10 I see 05:29:00 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:39:03 ASau: it has POST 05:39:51 --- join: Topaz (~top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust117.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 05:45:32 --- join: lalalim (~lalalim@p508AA9E9.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:49:22 I wonder what documentation I should include with RetroForth 7.0 05:52:09 Dictionary list with explanation is enough. 05:52:37 Implementation details may be included too. 05:53:42 I'll include the list of words, with stack comments 05:54:04 Implementation details are in the manual, which will come later on (It's still incomplete) 06:06:53 --- quit: lalalim_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:10:24 Does HTTP support anything reverse to GET? 06:10:51 I.e. is there possibility to use HTTP like FTP? 06:10:58 I mean theoretical. 06:11:43 I don't know 06:12:07 I've always used the PHP based upload script I set up for you 06:12:44 It looks I can access ftp.freebsd.org, but not my ftp.hotbox.ru. 06:13:18 Ha! 06:13:39 Odd 06:13:47 Is your ftp server set up properly? 06:14:30 I'm trying to connect retroforth.org by FTP. 06:14:55 I'll need to set up an account for you 06:15:02 There's no anon. FTP yet 06:15:14 Well, I've connected and failed to login. 06:15:45 Now I'll try to check hotbox. 06:16:03 Maybe delay is long. 06:18:15 Did you get the private message I sent you? 06:25:14 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:47:09 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:47:34 Hello tathi 06:53:15 HTTP supports 'PUT' 06:53:19 although it's not commonly used 06:53:25 the only time i've ever seen it used is in Amaya 06:54:20 ASau got ftp to work ;-) 06:58:36 * crc is considering setting up a public-access Forth code repository. Would there be a use for that? 07:14:11 hi crc 07:16:31 I still haven't managed to get the non-line blocking input working :-( 07:16:38 hmm. 07:17:56 I'll have to see if I can't find an x86 Linux box to experiment on. 07:19:16 It *always* segfaults for me 07:24:19 Other than that, the 7.0 codebase appears to be very good 07:24:41 Since fixing the bug in < I haven't found any more 07:27:06 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:27:21 Hello Herkamire 07:27:44 hi crc :) 07:32:57 crc: http://qualdan.com/misc/termtest.s 07:33:16 did that (with nasm) and it doesn't crash... 07:34:01 hmm...guess I should add a read syscall to make sure it actually works. 07:36:13 ok, did that, and it seems to work. 07:37:14 I added it to RetroForth/Linux and the behaviour of the word KEY remains the same 07:38:51 At least it doesn't segfault 07:38:58 Huh. 07:39:02 * crc wonders why it doesn't work with KEY 07:39:15 isForth works OK on your system? 07:39:29 I don't have isForth installed anymore 07:39:47 It did work ok, but I never tested KEY to see if it was line blocking or not 07:39:55 right... 07:40:11 can you check the return value from one of the ioctls? 07:40:22 Which one? 07:41:20 whichever -- I'm just curious if they're returning some kind of error 07:41:27 I'd think they should either all work or all not work. 07:42:45 Would the return value be in EAX? 07:43:28 yeah, think so. 07:43:56 zero on success or -errno on failure 07:45:28 I just checked the Linux source...looks like I do have all the numbers correct...grrr. 07:46:24 The last ioctl returns '0' 07:47:15 * crc is now confused 07:47:20 * tathi too 07:47:57 I updated termtest.s to read one byte before quitting. 07:48:07 Does that work? 07:48:22 * tathi doesn't know how different fasm and nasm are... 07:48:32 Nearly identical 07:49:07 Other than directives (section labels etc) they are source compatible 07:50:55 That works 07:51:19 well...I don't know then. 07:51:48 I'll continue digging into it. This is rather confusing to me 07:53:08 Odd, it's working now (but backspace is messed up) 07:53:19 what's the behavior of your KEY? 07:53:32 KEY is currently line blocking 07:53:54 hah. 07:54:06 fasm doesn't seem to like 0nnnnh syntax 07:54:20 switching the numbers over to 0xnnnn makes it work. 07:54:23 What does it say? 07:54:37 You can prefix them with $ too :-) 07:54:41 I just tried assembling termtest.s under fasm 07:54:58 it assembles fine, but it's still line-buffering. 07:55:13 I changed all the numbers to 0x and then it works. 07:55:13 garden. bbl 07:55:32 Odd 07:55:35 yeah. 07:55:47 I didn't change any of the number formats 07:55:56 It worked after the second time I ran it though 07:56:05 * crc sighs 07:58:25 hmm...maybe it's just running it the second time then. 07:59:12 I'll post the code to the RF message board to let others play with it a bit. 08:00:55 I'm starting to think maybe it's a problem with flushing the changes. 08:01:11 the libc function tcsetattr has a parameter that says when the action is supposed to take place. 08:01:19 But I don't think the syscall does. 08:02:15 I'll have to look into that, I guess. 08:03:15 I posted the code + manual patching notes to the message boards to get more feedback 08:03:29 On my box, it doesn't reset the terminal state :-( 08:04:22 yeah, don't think it is here either, actually. 08:04:47 I'll probably make this an optional thing, at least for now 08:05:47 well, whatever. I just noticed it in the logs the other day and thought it would be simple to add. 08:05:50 :-( 08:06:15 Still, it's at least partially working now, thanks to you 08:06:54 Hopefully it'll be fully working soon, so RetroForth users can enjoy normal use of KEY 08:43:21 Well, I'm going to bed. Goodnight all! 08:43:35 --- quit: crc ("Time for bed... Goodnight all!") 08:45:59 /win go 20 08:46:04 oops 08:47:11 Dobryjj vecher, lalalim! 08:48:52 ? 08:49:13 is that polish? :) 08:49:17 That means good evening! 08:49:24 ah 08:49:25 Russian. 08:49:37 still afternoon here :) 08:50:00 France/Britain? 08:50:26 Germany 08:50:30 ;) 08:50:44 8-3=5 08:50:55 It's the evening. 08:51:27 What do you write in Forth? 08:51:35 ok evening then :) 08:51:51 I can't recall if I asked you. 08:51:51 actually i haven't done much forth programming yet 08:52:03 Hm. 08:52:10 i started writing a Chip-8 Interpreter 08:52:23 Then what are you interested in? 08:52:28 only the disassembler is half-working though 08:52:47 mostly emulation 08:53:02 Is Chip-8 imaginary? 08:53:14 yeah 08:53:44 are you writing something in forth? 08:54:16 For now I'm writing random number generator(s). 08:54:34 Actually, I rewrite them from GNU SL sources. 08:54:49 Debugging GNU SL in parallel. 08:55:10 nice 08:55:25 After this I plan to write optimizing procedure. 08:55:48 I need one to solve non-linear transcendental equations. 08:56:40 cool 08:56:49 Also, the work on another optimizing procedure is in progress. 08:57:12 Latter is for local optimum. 08:57:21 Former is for global one. 08:58:33 which forth implementation are you using? 08:59:24 As I've switched occasionly to BSD, I have to use Gforth. 08:59:45 I have my own one half done. 09:00:06 nice 09:01:09 What's yours? 09:01:26 gah. Hate when I make stupid typos. 09:01:39 i've been using both bigforth and gforth 09:02:25 tathi, you mean I don't know English, that's not new to me. 09:02:58 ASau: no, sorry, was talking to myself. 09:03:10 Ah, no problem. 09:03:14 I was trying to help crc get non-line-buffered input for the Linux version of RetroForth. 09:03:20 It didn't work, couldn't figure out why. 09:03:33 I finally found it -- I typed the wrong name in one spot. 09:03:52 Ha! 09:04:09 That's the common way to make mistakes. 09:04:17 I don't know how to fight it. 09:04:36 yeah, no way the compiler could have caught it. 09:04:46 it was perfectly valid code. 09:04:54 It just did exactly the opposite of what I wanted it to do 09:05:35 Flags are awful. 09:06:28 I hate this style of programming. 09:07:27 One time I've run into such a weird C code. 09:08:55 It used several flags to switch between the same number of procedures that were natural meanings. 09:09:17 And this code was meant as library. 09:09:36 ...to be C library. 09:10:16 lalalim, do you use Linux? 09:10:26 I've failed to run bigforth there. 09:10:30 yeah 09:10:42 works perfectly here 09:10:53 what kind of errors did you get? 09:10:56 It's strange. 09:11:38 First, I couldn't rebuild it from the source. 09:13:02 Second, it dumped core. 09:13:18 strange 09:13:28 What a distribution do you have? 09:14:21 Maybe I've broken dependencies, but not sure. 09:15:36 using gentoo here 09:24:20 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-74-218-202.san.rr.com) joined #forth 09:24:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 09:24:33 God kvaell, kc5tja! 09:24:40 Greetings 09:29:58 cherry tomatoes and cucumbers for the first time this year :) 09:30:23 ? 09:31:33 Thinking about experimenting with my solar oven today. Even though it's not finished. 09:33:02 Although, it is a bit overcast from the marine layer right now. 09:34:39 I just got back from my garden 09:36:07 Sweet. 09:36:34 can't believe how fast the cucembers are growing 09:37:26 Crap. I have to work again today, from 6PM to 10PM again. 09:37:40 So I will have worked 50.5 hours total this week. True, lots of overtime, but still.... 09:37:43 icky. 09:38:19 yuck 09:38:20 why? 09:38:31 lots of servers flaking out? 09:38:59 gotta bathe and shave. bbiab 09:39:18 No. We had a lot of employees leave all at once, so we're really understaffed at the moment. And a key employee who still IS with us is out sick. 09:39:37 So I, as a level 1 tech, have to fill part of a level 2's schedule. :/ 09:39:51 And let me tell you, doing his job is not easy. It sucks -- big time. 09:40:04 Especially since I just don't have the knowledge necessary to do the job right. 09:40:12 (although I think I did very, very good yesterday) 09:53:41 that sucks 09:53:45 well, at least you get overtime 09:53:57 and training for your next promotion :) 09:54:45 kc5tja> understaffed by force in a tech comp? 09:54:58 how's that possible? :) 09:55:15 or were the leaves layed off? 10:02:49 Employees left for better jobs 10:03:56 qFox: But being understaffed by force is also possible. Layoffs, for example. Lots of people getting sick is another. 10:04:04 so there are job-openings in that sector? 10:04:21 Now that cari.net is hiring, yes. 10:04:27 well yes, but i meant by force as in not fired 10:04:54 ok, nice 10:05:03 (to see that its not all going down i mean) 10:06:52 --- join: SDO (~SDO@67-23-111-213.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:07:07 But it is a rather shitty job. 10:07:26 I certainly do not want to be working on tier-1 technical support for the rest of my life. 10:11:18 i hear ya :) 10:16:43 you get people calling all the time because they can't figure out how to use outlook? 10:17:47 "my icon is missing!! i cant find it! please help me! 10:17:48 " 10:18:02 "oh, _there_, thank you so much!!!" 10:24:03 qFox: No. From yesterday, one asshole "knew" how Internet service providers really worked, and that if you could log into the web server, you could also (automatically) log into the mail server. Therefore, if his mail isn't able to be downloaded, it must not be his client, but our servers. 10:24:08 Fucking retards. 10:25:02 And then there are those who are on drugs or even drunk when they call in. 10:25:06 Those are the best. 10:26:40 luckily my helpdesk experience is limited to calls from within a bank (oh those ppl are computer-illiterates, dont get me wrong) and are sober and proper and ... well decent to a degree :) 10:36:31 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 10:37:56 hi ! 10:39:45 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] (Client Quit) 10:46:16 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:48:34 --- join: Fractal (jah@selling.kernels.to.linus.torvalds.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth 10:55:03 --- quit: [Forth] (Connection timed out) 10:55:14 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-59.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 11:07:29 wow 11:07:43 is this a record for # ppl in #forth? (not counting the time chuck was here :) 11:09:38 heh 11:10:16 just got back from rancho cucamonga 11:10:25 oooh time for coffee :) 11:10:26 chuck was here? 11:10:27 :p 11:10:36 qFox: Quite some time ago, yes. 11:10:38 when, like at the start of irc? ;) 11:11:02 No. Thin asked him and Jeff Fox to come by and give something along the lines of a fireside chat here. 11:11:19 It was an amazing success, I think. Too bad we've never had a repeat performance. 11:11:31 what was the peak at that time/ 11:11:56 Peak of what? Membership? Maybe around 8 people. 11:12:14 kc5 - what did chuck think of it? 11:12:24 channel.. 11:12:43 Except for the people who asked routinely stupid questions, I think he might have liked it. 11:13:10 (not counting the time chuck was here :) 11:13:17 so what was the peak at that time? :) 11:13:25 i think it tired him out a little but i think it was a success :) 11:13:30 qFox: Peak of what? 11:13:35 Peak of "channel" does not make any sense. 11:13:43 kc5 said.. we had about 8 regulars at the time 11:13:51 i dont know any other way to interpreter it as to people 11:13:54 and a half a dzn or more regular fly-by's 11:13:59 8 regulars is < 28 11:14:38 guess i'm bitching. nevermind. 11:14:38 qfox theres a log of it on ultratechnology 11:15:13 sure but logs dont exactly tell you the number of ppl, or well, usually they dont 11:15:54 as for chuck, it's cool he created the language and all, but i dont exactly view him as my god or something ;) 11:16:35 Actually, most of the topic was centered in MISC and ColorForth. 11:18:14 YAY! The sun is finally coming out. Maybe now I can go to the store and get some pasta to cook in the solar oven prototype. 11:18:37 qfox thats how i feel, i dont hero worship chuck but i sure respect him :) 11:18:38 kc5tja: :) 11:18:50 qFox: I don't think he's a god 11:19:00 but he's had a lot of good ideas, and continues to innovate 11:19:10 so I like to check up on what he's come up with every once and a while 11:24:41 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 11:25:05 hey> is anyaone online ? 11:25:29 yea a few of us :) 11:25:43 hi I440r !! 11:25:52 Serg, you're so fast that I can't follow. 11:25:54 how are your money problems ? 11:26:01 gone :) 11:26:05 i got a job now 11:26:13 nice ! 11:26:15 No money means no problems. 11:26:20 direct hire, not a contract job 11:26:33 twice nice ! 11:26:38 re 11:26:42 --- nick: TomasuDlrrp -> Tomasu 11:26:44 * Tomasu is back (gone 12:12:28) 11:27:03 ASau> that must be a typo. you meant mo? ;) 11:27:23 * Serg[GPRS] accepts direct hire only, no contracts 11:27:36 * kc5tja accepts anything that gets my bills paid. 11:27:43 No money = no choice. 11:28:30 hire is stability, contracts are jumping on poping bubbles 11:29:26 Serg[GPRS]: If you are a contractor, then it is assumed you are in business for yourself. As such, there is always risk. It is your responsibility, as a contractor, to constantly advertise your services and ensure sufficient customer line-up to garantee a workable revenue stream. 11:29:45 guarantee even 11:31:22 "the state of non-existence" - good title for a philosofical tome ;))) 11:34:14 My next pay check will have 10.5 hours of overtime on it though. That will help out immensely with my current set of expenses. 11:35:22 kc5tja: parse error ! 11:36:34 After today, I will have worked a total of 50.5 hours this week. 11:37:04 Anything over 40 hours is considered overtime, and I get paid time-and-a-half (e.g., 1.5x my normal wage for those hours). 11:39:33 i think thats how it works here as well 11:39:36 either 1.5 or double 11:39:54 and either double or triple on hollidays 11:41:39 well...I'll brb -- shower, errands, food, and then I'll return 11:41:47 no ETA. 12:18:35 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-93-23.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 12:23:44 Dobryjj vecher, Sonarman! 12:25:52 Privet, ASau! 12:28:19 --- quit: kc5tja ("leaving") 12:28:41 How's your coding? 12:29:10 I become tired of waiting GHC. 12:29:30 Build process is almost locked my box. 12:29:51 ...has almost locked... 12:30:27 when i try to build GHC, the object files fill up my hard drive :) 12:30:34 ?? 12:30:37 That's bad. 12:30:45 same with GCC 12:30:49 I don't have much free space! 12:31:27