00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.06.21 01:17:59 --- quit: topher ("Client Exiting") 01:21:48 --- join: askew375 (~rkulow@212-98-45-196.adslpremium.ch) joined #forth 01:29:15 hey arke 03:30:49 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@217.121.68.87) joined #forth 04:48:32 --- join: Topaz (~top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust217.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 05:29:35 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-243.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 05:53:52 --- quit: qFox (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:53:53 --- quit: Robert (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:53:53 --- quit: ChanServ (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:53:58 --- quit: SDO (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:53:58 --- quit: fridge (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:53:58 --- quit: kuvos (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:54:05 --- quit: arke (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:54:05 --- quit: ianp (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:19 --- quit: Topaz (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:19 --- quit: askew375 (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:19 --- quit: lalalim_ (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:19 --- quit: Herkamire (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:19 --- quit: cmeme (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:20 --- quit: skylan (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:20 --- quit: SolarFire (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:04:33 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 06:04:33 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@217.121.68.87) joined #forth 06:04:33 --- join: SDO (~SDO@68.170.20.201) joined #forth 06:04:33 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-bf5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 06:04:33 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-162-85.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 06:04:33 --- join: arke (~arke@melrose-251-251.flexabit.net) joined #forth 06:04:33 --- join: kuvos (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 06:04:33 --- join: ianp (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 06:04:33 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 06:07:01 --- join: Topaz (~top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust217.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 06:07:01 --- join: askew375 (~rkulow@212-98-45-196.adslpremium.ch) joined #forth 06:07:01 --- join: lalalim_ (~lalalim@pD95EA591.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 06:07:01 --- join: SolarFire (SolarFire@pD9545C29.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 06:07:01 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 06:07:01 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com) joined #forth 06:07:01 --- join: skylan (~sjh@vickesh01-4831.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 06:07:10 --- quit: kuvos (Connection timed out) 06:29:13 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:29:14 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-243.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 06:30:28 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:31:11 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-243.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 08:02:30 --- join: kuvos (C00K13S@217.121.68.87) joined #forth 08:16:16 --- quit: askew375 (Client Quit) 08:48:08 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:05:18 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 09:43:50 hello busy onetom 09:44:54 would need YOU for just a second.. 10:18:35 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:20:39 ? 10:20:44 aloha tathi 10:36:28 is there anybody interested in a TEXT mode FULLSCREEN COLOR EDITOR for FLUX running under LINUX & running over TILE "forth" ? 10:36:46 v0.2 is out 10:39:47 tile forth? 10:40:33 --- join: SolarFire| (SolarFire@pD9EE1D20.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:43:57 --- quit: SolarFire (Nick collision from services.) 10:44:18 --- nick: SolarFire| -> SolarFire 10:52:31 yup, tile as Threaded Interpreted Language environment 10:54:29 ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/non-gnu/tile-forth/tile-forth-2.1.tar.gz 10:56:44 --- join: Serg (~z@193.201.231.126) joined #forth 10:56:53 hiya ! 10:56:55 aloha Serg 10:57:04 Hi 10:57:07 --- nick: Serg -> Serg[GPRS] 10:57:30 i just shot some photos from 25-storey houses 10:58:16 seems lik highest in Moscow what you can freely enter 10:58:48 ex for University, Foreign Affairs etc 11:00:22 Serg[GPRS]: and now you're chatting from your pda while sitting in the parachute way down, right? ;-) 11:01:02 no, i'm back 11:01:52 joining Palm and cellphone by RS-232 is in plans ;) 11:02:49 rs232? why not IR etc? 11:03:01 yesterday i shot some photos from Sparrow Hills, on which University stands 11:04:22 at USSR time they were named after Lenin, as everything else ;) 11:04:23 coz 1) IR sucks more power 2) not as movable as wire 3) my phone has no IR 11:07:01 Serg[GPRS]: TEXT mode FULLSCREEN COLOR EDITOR for FLUX running under LINUX & running over TILE "forth" 11:07:10 Serg[GPRS]: aint u interested in such a stuff? 11:07:38 Serg[GPRS]: or could u help me to post an article about it on forth.ru? 11:08:02 w/ wire, i can clip phone to belt and hold PDA in hand 11:08:41 can i do so w/ IR ? NO ! 11:08:45 * Serg[GPRS] is not affiliated w/ forth.org.ru 11:09:36 forth.ru is just a humble homepage of 2-3 compilers 11:10:08 both seem to be held by authors of most popular forths in RU 11:11:21 onetom: i am not interested in Forth screen ed, i prefer files 11:12:53 but flexible text editor based on Forth and fully hooked (like Emacs & Lisp) may be interesting :) 11:13:25 onetom: auuuuuu ! 11:15:34 all: what is tallest building at your place what you can enter / look / shoot from it 11:15:52 shoot camera :) not sniper rifle ^)))) 11:17:10 * Serg[GPRS] throws depth charge to wake someone 11:17:29 BADO-O-O-OM ! 11:17:34 Serg[GPRS]: it can b used as & extended to a file editor.. but its main purpose 2 help experimenting w colored texts so u can develop colored programming languages & data & markup file formats 11:18:15 i amfirmly against binary/colored things 11:18:54 i stand for clear text streams wherever possible 11:19:10 r u agains utf8? 11:19:25 'colored languages' are aberration 11:19:33 utf8 = unicode ? 11:19:50 hmmm... it can, but hardly, be considered text 11:20:04 anyway, the so called "clear text" also contains "binary" - as u named - control characters... 11:20:06 2 byte letters ? 11:20:26 2bytes but only in case of special chars 11:20:57 cr lf tab space -- these r all control codes... 11:21:18 look: /lambda < 11:21:24 why codes ? 11:21:42 in the case of the so called "colored" texts there r two things -- spaces & linebreaks 11:22:16 tab > /dev/null , it's harmfool 11:22:19 in cleartext u replace these stuff w visible chars 11:22:25 i just today seen an example of how broken is some Apache source w/ tabs 11:22:41 it makes it noisy.. 11:23:11 forget the tabs 4 now 11:23:30 * Serg[GPRS] is happy w/ 8bit xml and LaTeX for odd chars 11:25:03 chars, space, endline - that's all 11:25:13 at least, for me 11:25:27 no no no... 11:25:40 u forget the "syntax" 11:25:49 no hell color - what for color-blind men and devices? regexp and searches ? 11:25:51 chars r not equal 11:26:13 * Serg[GPRS] misses your point 11:26:13 ... so called "colored" texts .... 11:26:31 thats why i refer 2 it as "colored" 11:26:53 it doesnt mean color ,,,, 11:27:31 is it syntax hilite or 'colorforth'-like special code what alter meaning ? 11:27:36 * Serg[GPRS] rarely uses syntax highlight 11:28:31 the later of course 11:28:41 ooops 11:28:54 so shoot it from flak point-blank 11:29:11 and of course u can visualize these modifiers just as u like 11:29:35 u dont have to use colors inevitably 11:29:55 * Serg[GPRS] eats, pause 11:30:02 and regexps r not a problem 11:31:09 if u consider such a "color"/meaning-modifier capable input shell, than its clear text actually... 11:31:22 neither spoken nor printed word has 'tokens', man thinks by streams 11:31:49 a - a! thats not true 11:32:14 man attributes the stream w tokens 11:32:31 while she parses the stream 11:32:58 just think of the word categories.. verb noun adverb proverb... 11:33:06 very rarely, and rather emotional or importance marks than altering meaning 11:34:27 u can save computer processing power - and hence gain simpicity in the processing program - if u exactly state the type of the words at edit time 11:35:00 just as u already do it in any computer programming language, just by applying syntactical constructs 11:35:13 built from VISIBLE characters 11:37:13 eg, in C u nominate numbersystems w 0x 0 0b prefixes 11:37:43 u separate the definition of a function from its name w curly braces.. 11:38:16 so why not use spaces for these purposes? 11:39:17 why not call '0x' and '{' "spaces" nad go ahead ? 11:39:43 it helps because it simplifies the text processing & compilation & makes it obvious & ... 11:39:58 see: you put the damn Chingachgook-painted src on web.... 11:40:37 --- join: topher (~chris@lsanca1-ar42-4-61-175-184.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 11:40:47 well i actually consider them as spaces to some extent 11:40:59 what the 7-storey curse must i type to Google to find specifically colored word in it ????? 11:41:24 oh, boy... u view the problem from the wrong angle.. 11:41:56 the world is not prepared for colored text yet 11:42:19 but that should b an obstacle in developing future technologies 11:42:27 just think about xml 11:42:28 so go change the world :)))) 11:43:20 i'll wait till 'color' be as fundamental as C now 11:43:20 i'll be last who surrender ;) 11:43:22 serious efforts r put in searching xml which attributes the good-old plain clear text 11:43:59 so u can restrict the search into various parts of the text 11:44:40 hmm... 11:44:51 * Serg[GPRS] goes to bath and crashes to bed 11:45:18 so its the same but simpler 11:45:19 * Serg[GPRS] feels really exfarted after few days of lacking sleep 11:45:37 Serg[GPRS]: good night then 11:45:44 sweet dreams 11:45:56 & thx 4 the conversation 11:46:05 tnx, bye ! 11:46:10 --- quit: Serg[GPRS] () 11:46:33 hmm.. he is not too open i think 12:10:49 what makes you say that? 12:53:49 --- quit: I440r ("brb") 13:02:59 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 13:35:25 --- join: lalalim (~lalalim@pD95EAA23.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:44:00 --- quit: lalalim_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:23:53 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-243.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 14:46:57 --- join: mark4 (~FooBlah@168-215-246-243.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 14:50:25 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:02:26 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 15:12:11 His keyboard. 15:30:30 hi jc 15:42:40 hello 15:42:52 (sweating... bleh) 15:43:00 Just finished moving a load of junk out of the cars into the basement. 15:43:51 Hi 15:45:09 *ack* I just felt another brain cell die. And I think it was an important one... 15:50:22 The one that controls commenting code, maybe? ;) 15:50:53 I killed that one years ago. 15:50:57 It was just taking up space. 15:51:39 Hehe 15:52:02 Hrm 15:52:42 * Robert just plugged a crystal earphone to a small antenna and listened to his computer's electroincal noises... 15:53:06 Those levels can't be good for my ham equipment's performance... 15:54:06 What band? HF, likely not. Unless you're doing weak signal work on 2m and above, it's not going to make much difference there. 15:55:08 crystal earphone? that's gotta feel awkward :p 15:58:01 jc: Yes, HF., 15:58:47 jc: But I don't notice a lot of difference even with the computers shut down. 16:04:09 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 16:04:20 hi 16:07:07 Hi slava 16:20:52 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:02:58 --- quit: mark4 ("Leaving") 17:06:37 --- quit: qFox ("this.is.not a.real.netsplit") 17:13:50 --- join: doublec (~doublec@coretech.co.nz) joined #forth 17:19:35 hi doublec 17:20:08 hi slava 17:20:30 slava, how's the game writing going? 17:21:22 its on hold for a little while 17:21:55 well, bug fixes only, until the graphics guy moves into his new apartment and gets an internet connection. 17:22:42 more time to hack on factor then I guess :) 17:23:28 have you tried the 'workspace' code? 17:24:50 --- join: madgarden_ (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576399.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 17:24:55 hi madgarden_ 17:25:07 Hi slava 17:25:10 --- nick: madgarden_ -> madgarden 17:25:17 is that the persistent storage of the definitions? If so, yes, using the file storage stuff. It seems to work fine. I like it. 17:25:35 i'm working on the btree storage right now 17:25:46 adding storage compaction -- its like on disk garbage collection 17:25:53 btree storage for a Forth dictionary? 17:25:56 right now, objects are never removed even if nothing else references them 17:26:04 madgarden: not just the dictionary but everything 17:26:21 For your dirty laundry!? :O 17:26:43 Past girlfriends? 17:26:45 cool 17:26:46 madgarden: for the dictionary (which consts of vocabularies), and variable values 17:27:09 how do you look up values in the non-btree version? I take it it is slower? 17:27:10 Your dictionaries consist solely of vocabularies? 17:27:20 (not that I notice a slowdown on a 3.2Ghz P4!) 17:27:29 doublec: the file store stores each ID in a file / 17:27:59 madgarden: there is no 'dictionary' per se, no ALLOT/FORGET for storage like forth 17:28:10 madgarden: just name->word definition mappings 17:28:28 words cannot be forgotten, then? 17:28:42 madgarden: they can, by removing them from the vocabulary containing them 17:29:01 madgarden: garbage collector takes care of the details of freeing unreachable objects 17:29:07 Forthy doesn't use ALLOT either. 17:29:21 my 'dictionary' is closer to lisp packages in implementation, in fact its almost identical. 17:29:50 Neat. 17:30:35 doublec: do you use the graphical listener? 17:31:08 slava, not often. I tend to use the console based one as I can copy paste easier. 17:31:25 although the point and click on 'see' words is pretty nifty in the graphical one. 17:31:41 I guess it depends if I'm 'browsing' code or writing code. 17:32:24 doublec: try the console listener with ANSI colors in an xterm. 17:35:51 doublec: add to ~/.factor-rc: "stdio" get "stdio" set 17:37:46 slava, I get ".factor-rc:1: Undefined: get 17:37:47 "stdio" get "stdio" set 17:37:47 " 17:38:02 doublec: add the necessary vocabulary references: USE: namespaces USE: ansi 17:38:46 slava, how do you handle forgotten word references in other words? 17:39:07 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-329-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 17:39:19 madgarden: if i write : foo bar ; and then forget bar, the definition of 'foo' will still reference the 'bar' definition 17:39:31 madgarden: however as soon as no more references to 'bar' exist, it is garbage collected 17:40:06 Ahh. 17:40:21 i don't forget words though. 17:40:27 slava, ahh got it working. Looks nice! 17:40:41 i could to implement 'private' words, but i prefer the 'white box' approach where all internals can be easily tested and inspected 17:41:03 madgarden: if you reload a source file, existing definitions are *redefined*. 17:41:09 I prefer that way too. In Scheme, with code that uses closures to 'hide' things, it becomes difficult to debug and test. 17:41:29 : foo 10 . ; : bar foo ; : foo 20 . ; bar will print 20 17:41:38 in factor 17:41:44 but it would print 10 in forth 17:42:24 Makes things nice and simple. 17:42:37 i'm not sure myself 17:42:41 slava, is metacircular.factor a 'factor' in 'factor'? 17:42:55 doublec: yes but its not done yet 17:43:58 doublec: i will use it for a debugger, and much much later if at all, self-hosting 17:45:06 what are your goals with Factor? Where do you intend to take it/use it? 17:45:27 short term i want to finish and debug what i've started so far 17:45:54 notice that the culmination of many of my efforts so far is the wiki :) 17:46:48 You could add an 'inline code editing' ability to the wiki and get a long way towards a reasonable 'Radio Userland' clone. 17:47:03 the long term goal is to use the database and http server to write a 'personal information manager' that doesn't require programming knowledge to use 17:47:34 what is inline code editing? 17:47:41 add/edit factor words 17:47:49 from inside the web browser 17:48:22 and have tags in the wiki that run factor words to display output on the page. 17:48:38 yes, i want to unify the front-ends more. it should be possible to view/edit the wiki in the listener, and edit word definitions in the httpd 17:48:52 and make it multi-threaded so you can run both at the same time./ 17:49:24 yes, that would be nice 17:49:52 a secondary goal is i want to write a v ariety of mini applications for my own use. 17:50:14 they will have the console/listener/http front-ends. the wiki is the first one, i also plan a music player (using some existing ogg/mp3 player library) 17:50:28 storing the music database (but not files themselves) in the database 17:50:39 the slow part of developing for the httpd at the moment is having to stop/start the server to test. Once a means of editing the definitions while it is running is available it will be much easier to develop for I suspect. 17:50:47 yes 17:51:13 also i need to add try/catch so that an error in one responder doesn't bring down the whole httpd 17:51:48 I like the 'style' mechanism you are using that marks up the text in the html, console or gui. That's pretty neat. 17:52:17 yes, the wiki doesn't use it yet though -- it outputs html directly. i need to fix this 17:52:24 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-1.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 17:52:36 I440r: hey 17:52:43 I440r: i was looking at the isforth source, its very neat 17:53:24 ======> ] 25,966,240 214.33K/s ETA 00:49 17:53:35 heh downloading at 250k per second :) 17:53:40 it dropped for a second there 17:53:45 ive seen 300k per here :) 17:54:00 yea. i go to great pains to KEEP it neat 17:54:11 every other persons sources i look at look like an unmade bed 17:54:39 :) an unmade bed :) Good description! 17:54:57 i find it very difficult to read other peoples sources because they are so freekin inconsistent and schitz with their formatting 17:55:12 if it was hard for me to write it, it should be hard for you to read it :D 17:55:15 kidding :D 17:55:38 doublec: would you store source in separate files and read them into the database, or work with the database directly? 17:56:30 slava, I like being able to load the source in emacs or other editors. Would you still be able to do this if it is done in the database directly? 17:57:18 doublec: no; that's why i prefer loading files in. however i want to add some kind of support for editing definitions inside the interpreter 17:57:33 doublec: oh yeah, if you use jedit for this, you get syntax highlighting :) 17:57:55 slava, I know. I've been tempted. Most of the people here at work use jedit. I'm the emacs standout :) 17:58:21 i would still like to see the cursor movement NOT jump all over the map in jedit (as an option :) 17:58:41 slava, Function Developer, a Dylan environment, stored source in files but allowed you to edit things almost like a database. You could pull up an editor window with 'callers of this function' for example. 17:58:50 editing that window changed the definitions in the appropriate files 17:59:32 In factor, you might have something like 'edit words in vocabulary' that displayed all words and editing a particular word edits it in the file that word lives in. 17:59:52 doublec: that's kind of hard though 18:00:02 you'd need to keep track of what source file each definition was loaded from and such 18:00:37 slava, yep. If all the source was in a database it's easier and it is nice functionality. Like Squeaks browsers on method callers, method implementers, etc. 18:01:02 unfortunately most people like to have their source in files. 18:03:37 i think instead of editable word definitions in the httpd, i'll make the httpd multi-threaded so you can change source files and 'run-file' them without starting/stopping it 18:04:34 that would be a good option 18:04:47 I just noticed that 'styles' can be defined on a vocab by vocab basis. nice! 18:05:54 doublec: this is what gives the syntax highlighting in SEE output. 18:06:45 slava, I wondered how the words got their different colors. I thought it was just some alternating scheme for each word or something and didn't realise it was something as nice as what was there. 18:08:39 when I start a new listener in the GUI, it has a seperate stack from the original spawning listener. Is it possible to spawn new listeners like this in general or is it something gui specific? 18:09:14 its done using continuations 18:09:37 when you press ENTER in the listener, it passes the input string to the continuation associated with that listener 18:09:54 when 'read' is called to read a line, it saves the current continuation 18:10:36 so the listener GUI and outer interpreter are co-routines. 18:11:08 brb 18:14:45 cool, I'll take a look at the sources. 18:15:45 doublec: do you think a continuation-based web framework is concievable? 18:16:14 slava, yes. I think it would work well. 18:17:24 slava, I'll put together a small example if you are interested. It's something i've been meaning to try out anyway. 18:18:42 doublec: using your exisiting generators library? 18:19:14 doublec: generators remind me of Haskell's lazy evaluation 18:20:36 slava, it'll use bits from that I imagine. A very simple example wouldn't be too difficult using that. 18:20:48 cool. 18:21:43 doublec: also i usually use callcc in this form: [ ... suspend ] callcc0 18:22:50 slava, that's how the main part of a continuation based web framework works. It saves the continuation and returns back the html to display (using something like suspend). WHen the user requests the next url it just resumes the continuation. 18:24:22 doublec: what kind of changes would this require to the responder framework? 18:24:39 doublec: i'd like to keep the current way of coding request handlers too, for simpler stuff where there's no session info involved 18:24:51 slava, none that I can think of. I had a quick look when I first looked into it. 18:24:53 slava, what's your Factor server's URL? 18:25:13 slava, I'll see if I can throw something together tonight. 18:25:26 madgarden: its not up right now 18:25:49 doublec: i'm going out tonight to drink some beer with friends, so take your time :) 18:27:22 slava, heh, no worries. 18:27:46 slava, I'll just have a beer while I do it - no guarantees on code quality ;-) 18:28:02 new zealand beer is good :) 18:28:18 i used to live in wellington, i forget if i mentioned this before 18:28:22 yes, I'm quite partial to it. 18:28:33 no, you didn't. I'm in Wellington. Where did you live? 18:28:56 in the northern suburbs -- johnsonville, about 15 minutes walk from the mall there 18:29:19 ok, I live in Newlands not far from johnsonville. 18:29:21 from 1991 to 2002. 18:29:44 well i'm going -- have a good one 18:30:00 ok, cya 18:41:08 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-74-218-202.san.rr.com) joined #forth 18:41:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 18:42:29 hey kc5tja wassup? 18:43:41 how many of the people in here are true idlers... i.e. havent said anything in ages ? 18:43:42 heh 18:43:46 othern than clog 18:43:51 he has an exscuse :P 18:44:04 ? 18:44:10 clog is a bot :P 18:44:18 * Robert has talked a lot! 18:44:24 lol 18:44:44 oh! duh 18:44:48 ok, let me modify the question. how many of the idlers here have said anything inteligable :P 18:45:08 spelling mistakes are automatically forgiven :P 18:45:10 i make too manyu 18:45:18 Hrm 18:45:22 Well.... 18:45:33 I spoke about my spark experiments :P 18:45:56 make a tesla coil and light up your eyeballs :) 18:46:23 :D 18:46:26 Something like that 18:47:32 I've seen everybody on right now talk except maybe 2 18:47:42 yea thats what i was thinking 18:47:50 we have very few actual idlers in here! 18:48:05 now... being afk for extended periods does not make you an idler lol 18:48:14 and were growing too 18:48:15 Pffft 18:48:31 You're redefining "idler" to not match yourself 18:48:32 Cheater 18:48:39 well duh! 18:48:47 * I440r thwaps Robert 18:49:35 Mmmm 18:49:56 I think a lot of people (myself included) stay on irc while we're away/sleeping because we like to see the history right here in our favorite irc client. 18:50:08 :) 18:50:22 sometimes it even makes interesting reading too! 18:50:24 lol 18:50:29 yeah 18:50:36 That's what I do. 18:50:53 too bad irc can't just send you the backlog when you connect 18:51:01 it might actually be easier on the servers 18:51:41 post it as a suggestion :) 18:51:54 you could have /mst chanserv sendmealltheshit 18:51:57 erm msg 18:51:58 even 18:52:00 can't change the irc protocol 18:52:24 chanserv could log and send you whats transpired since you last logged in 18:52:35 but that would take storage space on the server 18:52:42 * blockhead ponders taking logs and runnign them throw a markov chain random sort of program :D 18:52:50 request it from clog! 18:53:06 * blockhead irc has logs 18:53:09 the server space would be totally worth it if lots of people used it. 18:53:10 clog is already logging it all. clog could have a function that sends you everthing from your last login to present 18:53:36 if everybody automatically got the backlog when they connected, then there'd probably only be half the connections we have now 18:53:48 not automatically 18:53:50 on request 18:54:27 yeah, on request 18:57:29 anyway, I would set my client to log this channel, and when I connect download everything since I was last on (with a maximum of course) 18:57:59 then I can scroll back as far as I care to keep on my hd 19:03:44 ok, so the hard part is client support 19:08:00 I find it hard to imagine that anyone says anything important enough on IRC to justify wading through Dog knows how many hours/days of backlog. 19:13:07 I like to scan back a few pages to see what people are talking about 19:13:54 it's not very important or anything, but it's enough to get a whole lot of people to leave irc open 19:19:07 --- quit: doublec ("Leaving") 19:24:05 * blockhead ponders iRC re-runs. I'de paste lines that I said a month ago and see if anyone notices :D 19:27:06 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:28:37 oh 19:29:04 blockhead: Hey, didn't you say something to that effect about a month ago? 19:29:18 kc5tja: :D :D 19:32:06 dudes. it was a typo. I forgot the slash 19:32:18 * blockhead hands out chill pills all around 19:33:01 'nn all (said that a month ago also :D ) 19:33:12 --- quit: blockhead ("laugha while you can, monkey boy") 19:54:15 doh, he's gone. 20:26:27 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 21:37:30 --- join: I440r (~mark4@216-110-82-1.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 21:38:47 --- join: Research (XINU@12-222-128-22.client.insightBB.com) joined #forth 21:42:19 research ? 21:46:01 http://tinymicros.com/forth/demo_lcd.txt comments? 21:50:14 initial impression is good. and thats just based on the first page :) 21:50:20 its comments.... you have COMMENTS!!!!! 21:50:41 whats :: ? 21:51:18 If you want to transmit the top-of-stack argument in the w register (for example if a word typically takes a constant which is put on the stack just before calling it), you can use the defining word :: instead of :. All calls will automatically use this convention. 21:51:36 (from the manual. Limited usefulness) 21:52:02 aha. 21:52:07 what forth is that ? 21:52:14 thats very un-forthlike 21:52:16 PicForth 21:52:23 aha 21:52:28 then i can forgive it :) 21:52:48 Yes, the vagaries of PICs require some special handling at times. 21:52:52 there are no hard rules, just hard conventions :) 21:52:56 yes 21:53:01 specially in a forth 21:53:15 pics dont lend themselves to forth very much :) 21:53:24 Or any other language 21:54:09 heh 21:54:23 I hate PICs, but they have this strange appeal, the more I work with them. The best analogy I've come up with so far, it's like the feeling you get working with a retarded child, and finally get them to parrot back their name or something. 21:54:35 heh 21:54:42 like the x86! 21:54:54 its sooooo fucked up you gotta love it 21:54:55 lol 21:55:00 Yah. 21:59:06 I cringe at the very concept of "unforthlike." 21:59:17 Who are you to decide, when even Chuck Moore can't decide what, precisely, Forth is? 21:59:53 Oh well. 21:59:57 ok. theres a guy at in longview who codes all his forth words to NOT eat their parameters 21:59:57 I guess I'm in a bitchy mood right now. 22:00:01 they are all ( n1 --- n1 ) 22:00:09 or ( n1 n2 --- n1 n2 ) 22:00:23 this is so he doesnt keep having to do dups' and 2dup's 22:00:29 I do that SOMETIMES if it results in more readable code. 22:00:29 but he keeps having to do 2drops 22:00:36 If Chuck can't decide, that's hardly a rationale. Inaction is not a course of action. 22:00:55 its a "rule" that all forth words eat their parameters. being a FORTH rule its just a rule of "thumb" 22:00:59 i do it too 22:01:01 jc: Wrong -- it is. Choosing not to decide is itself a choice, regardless of the problem. 22:01:05 but not on EVERY WORD I DEFINE 22:01:12 But, frankly, what the heck does that have to do with anything at all? 22:01:22 'unforthlike' 22:01:24 inaction is definatly an actiuon 22:01:31 look at the 3 laws of robotics 22:01:37 what is the most well-written forth program? :) 22:01:42 isforth! 22:01:43 hehe 22:01:45 It may be an action, but it is not a course of action. 22:02:04 Not in my book, anyway. And that's all that really matters. 22:02:32 And if Chuck can't decide what Forth is, and he invented the thing, works with it daily (yes, still), then (while I don't think it's impossible) I find it highly improbable that a relative neophyte at Forth would have any concept of what "is" and "is not" Forth. 22:02:36 "Opinions are like assholes. Some people are goatse.cx." 22:02:37 actually he doesnt do it on every definition, just alot of them 22:02:43 i say that is most unforthlike 22:03:12 If Chuck can't decide, and won't layout a definition, the newbies opinion is just as valid. 22:03:26 jc: You completely misunderstand. 22:03:34 Chuck has been dealing with this problem since Forth was invented. 22:03:46 It's not that Chuck WON'T lay out a definition. 22:03:57 It's that he CAN'T, because Forth *DEFIES* the very concept. 22:04:11 Forth is a *philosophy* more than a language per se. The language is merely an expression of the philosophy. 22:04:22 i consider it a family of langauges -- just like lisp 22:04:29 kc5tja: what do you think of oberon btw? 22:04:34 slava: I love it. 22:05:11 kc5tja: i find the text user interface fascinating 22:05:38 slava: I love the language, too. But the text user interface is just plain old GUI done right. 22:06:40 Some might argue that the reliance on a 3-button mouse isn't "right," but the fact that the buttons are treated consistently, without fail, regardless of what "application" you're using, fully satisfies Raskin's requirements for a humane interface. That is, it's learnable, repeatable, and internalizable. 22:06:47 In a word, habituating. 22:07:22 And, the user interface is 100% mode-free. 22:07:37 Which I find to be quite refreshing. 22:12:23 so gentoo never released a gentoo-ificated version of the 2.6.6 linux kernel but in one day (today) they release three separate versions of 2.6.7 lol 22:12:33 revisions even 22:18:53 Slackware 10 is exected to be coming out soon. 22:18:56 * kc5tja can't wait. 22:21:35 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 22:21:51 i prefer fbsd :) 22:23:01 HI!!!! 22:31:27 ... 22:31:29 tlak to me people 22:31:31 come lon 22:31:31 :( 22:32:01 --- quit: Research (Client Quit) 22:43:34 --- join: Research (XINU@12-222-128-22.client.insightBB.com) joined #forth 22:49:27 --- quit: lalalim (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:10:27 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@217.121.68.87) joined #forth 23:22:12 --- join: Klaw (~anonymous@ip68-228-92-218.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 23:27:12 --- join: lalalim (~lalalim@p508AB492.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:29:50 anybody know of any good free host? 23:45:07 --- join: LOOP-HOG (~jdamisch@sub22-119.member.dsl-only.net) joined #forth 23:45:12 hi 23:47:24 hi 23:47:24 hi 23:47:24 hi 23:47:35 hi hi hi hi arke and #forth 23:47:36 what's up? 23:49:25 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:51:51 # # 23:51:53 ^ 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.06.21