00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.06.13 00:06:28 http://t3x.dyndns.org/PDP-11/programs/sol-11.html 00:06:46 its an old FORTH OS and Language setup 00:08:13 --- nick: topher|away -> topher 00:08:18 hi topher 00:08:22 topher: do your turn :) 00:08:29 i did 00:09:22 :) 00:13:41 http://www.tpforth.com/ 00:13:50 heres a link for a site that uses Flash 00:14:30 if you can get the Kestrel out the door in quantity, id get some Flash for my site 00:15:52 flash = evil 00:17:32 maybe just a big fat animated gif then 00:17:54 I don't see the relationship between the Kestrel and you getting Flash for your site. :) 00:18:41 kc5tja: got my query? 00:18:47 arke: Yes. 00:18:53 I just haven't responded. I'm coding. 00:19:04 Go ahead and paste, I'll look at it in a bit. 00:19:08 to brag 00:19:16 :^/ 00:19:30 LOOP-HOG: What would you put in the flash animation though? 00:20:00 (please excuse me if I seem like I'm not following: it's way past my bedtime, due to this party, and I'm coding, so I'm not entirely concious(sp?) right now) 00:20:22 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-113-231-53.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 00:20:22 coding and not consious, maybe i'll have another myself :^) 00:20:29 a picture of a Kestral flying, what else 00:20:39 Ahh! 00:32:19 http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/12/1845213&mode=thread&tid=134 00:33:31 my parents got a new dog that is quite intelligent 00:33:37 compared to their last dog, at least 00:33:56 labrador x alaskan malamute 00:35:19 we have a golden lab 00:35:19 she's quite the funny one. 00:35:29 she doesn't want to do something new 00:35:31 --- join: poingie (~chatzilla@user-2ivfjeu.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #forth 00:35:34 but if she does it once 00:35:39 she'll do it again, if I ask her to 00:35:49 however, only on that particular item, not another one like it. 00:35:59 slides at a playground for example. 00:36:10 I finally convinced her to go down one of them, 00:36:17 she arrived at the bottom 00:36:21 then we went up again 00:36:28 and I asked her to go agian 00:36:30 and she did without hesitation 00:36:38 but she wouldn't go to the other slide 00:36:42 and she's quite loyal 00:40:15 * poingie puzzles over SDL in win32forth 00:40:35 kc5tja: you said you were using sdl w/ gforth, right? 00:40:47 Yes 00:41:14 how far have you gotten? 00:41:33 i'm still puzzling out how to get it to do anything 00:41:38 poingie: http://www.falvotech.com/screenshot.png 00:41:42 got it to bring up the initial surface, but that's it 00:42:14 tried a simple accessor like SDL_GetClipRect, but can't figure how to pass it the out param for the rect 00:42:18 I'm waiting until tomorrow to see if the darcs maintainers fix the bugs I reported earlier today. 00:42:21 supposed to use allocate for that, right? 00:42:31 You don't have to. 00:42:34 It's just a pointer 00:42:44 right, but i have to allocate it somewhere 00:42:55 CREATE myRect 8 ALLOT 00:43:01 will work just as well. 00:43:15 hm, lessee.. 00:43:15 (since sizeof( SDL_Rect ) == 8) 00:43:34 have the other disadvantage that i'm a forth newbie 8-/ 00:44:42 bah. still getting read violations 00:45:09 I would have to see your code. 00:47:24 i'll b back 00:47:26 --- quit: LOOP-HOG () 00:47:53 SDL_INIT_EVERYTHING call SDL_Init 00:47:55 SDL_SWSURFACE 24 480 640 call SDL_SetVideoMode 00:47:56 create myrec 8 allot 00:47:58 dup myrec call SDL_GetClipRect 00:48:51 shows me the blank window just fine... but the getcliprect call ... doesnt like it 00:50:08 well, set the rectangle to something, then do SDL_RectFill 00:50:10 Are you sure there is something on the stack when 'dup' is invoked? 00:50:11 see if that works 00:50:18 yah, it's the surface 00:50:21 arke: That's not his problem. 00:50:31 ok. 00:50:31 poingie: Are you SURE? :) 00:50:49 If you type .s after the create myrec 8 allot, is a number really on the stack? 00:50:52 yep, i call SDL_GetVideoSurface and it matches 00:50:59 OK. 00:51:04 allot doesnt put anything on the stack 00:51:29 I know, but some Forth systems clear the stack for weird reasons. 00:51:49 I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something that simple. 00:53:35 nope, ran it line by line 00:53:39 made it more explicit too 00:53:44 call SDL_GetVideoSurface cliprect call SDL_GetClipRect 00:54:00 oh jeepers, they're backward 00:54:20 i'm such a dunce 00:54:32 got 'em backward *every time* 00:54:44 Ah, I didn't even realize that until you just mentioned it. 00:54:58 gforth uses "normal" argument ordering (which is actually somewhat annoying at times). 00:55:32 not sure which corresponds to actual c ordering 00:56:42 Yours actually corresponds to normal C ordering. 00:58:05 er 00:58:17 --- join: LOOP-HOG (~jdamisch@63.105.22.119) joined #forth 00:58:22 sure about that? 00:58:36 As it appears in memory, yes. 00:58:50 SDL_SetVideoMode(640, 480, 8, SDL_DOUBLEBUF); 00:58:52 GForth's solution requires all sorts of stack manipulations to get the arguments back in C-defined order. 00:58:56 oh, in memory, of course :P 01:08:51 yay, successfully did fillrect ... no way to sanely set the fillrect size yet but the call works :) 01:09:54 :) 01:10:27 kc5tja: isn't SDL_Rect 16 bytes?: 01:10:35 kc5tja: int x, int y, int w, int h 01:10:40 kc5tja: I count 4*4 = 16 01:11:54 Sorry, yeah. 01:12:02 I told you I'm tired. 01:13:52 :) 01:14:55 73 Systems Listed at memnonio 01:15:31 ugh, this is going to be, ah, fun 01:15:34 Uint8 *p = (Uint8 *)surface->pixels + y * surface->pitch + x * bpp; 01:16:12 know of any sample C stuff that directly messes with the pixels? 01:20:09 ah i see it in the struct now ... fun. i need a visual debugger for this stuff 01:20:39 I hardcode the format in my call to SDL_SetVideoMode, so that I don't have to deal with the above. 01:20:47 It's slower, but it's easier for me to work with. 01:21:11 poingie, are you new to FORTH? 01:21:13 the format to the surface struct? 01:21:32 LOOP-HOG: yep. last time i touched forth was blazin forth on my c64 01:21:38 and that was hello world type stuff 01:21:50 poingie, please visit http://www.memnonio.com/forth.html 01:21:59 if you have links to donate, please give them to me 01:22:07 i just figured i'd rather learn forth than asm. intel asm gave me the screaming fantods 01:22:26 dang, i never seen a fantoid b4 01:22:50 ooh good link 01:22:55 i made it 01:22:58 wow is late... going to bed i think 01:23:02 k 01:23:05 thanks. ill look at it tomorrowish 01:23:06 bookmark it 01:23:20 done 01:23:25 nite 01:23:38 What is a fantod? 01:24:01 not sure. got the phrase from _Infinite Jest_ 01:24:29 anyway i'm knackered. thanks for all the help :) 01:24:34 --- quit: poingie ("Chatzilla 0.9.64a [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040206]") 01:31:25 --- nick: topher -> topher|zZz 01:32:47 poot! 01:32:55 where's my poot! 01:33:08 pootForth! 01:33:19 futhin: http://www.falvotech.com/screenshot.png 01:34:14 showing me my poot? 01:34:24 What? 01:34:38 It's a screenshot from the Kestrel emulator. 01:35:14 oooh you too leet to use bcalc or forth for your mathematical needs? 01:35:19 pff!!! 01:35:25 hah 01:35:57 OK, whatever. 01:36:00 heh 01:36:23 --- join: poingie (~chatzilla@user-2ivfncn.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #forth 01:36:39 too bad that we can't really use computers similarly to the hp48 calc 01:36:49 with all the nifty buttons within easy reach 01:36:53 foo. too much coffee, not tired 01:36:59 keyboard needs to be redesigned 01:37:05 too bad the hp49g didnt really improve on the hp49 01:37:28 on the 48 you mean? 01:37:40 well, im going by the latest model 01:37:50 ? 01:37:56 hp49 = hp49g 01:38:08 yah basically. just faster and with sd cards 01:38:21 i was hoping for a faster 48 with sd cards 01:38:43 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:38:46 you meant to say "too bad the hp49g didn't really improve on the hp48" 01:39:01 yah 01:39:03 however it did improve it afaik 01:39:08 faster kernel 01:39:10 better editor 01:39:15 different processor 01:39:18 slightly faster cpu 01:39:21 it's still the same kernel afaikl 01:39:29 nope 01:39:33 no? 01:39:38 the guys that made the meta-kernel thing were hired 01:39:41 and that was incorporated 01:39:48 its responsible for a lot of the speed increase 01:39:59 oh yah 01:40:05 sorry, i meant 49g+ 01:40:15 49g has the same cpu as the 48 01:40:24 it does? 01:40:27 yah 01:40:31 saturn at 4mhz 01:40:48 ell the 48 had two different speeds 01:40:50 saturns weren't supposed to run above 2mhz originally, so they didnt dare overclock it any further 01:41:23 hp48 had like two different speeds.. like later ones off the production had faster cpu 01:41:26 like 2mhz vs 3mhz? 01:41:26 the 49g+ has an arm at 60mhz if i recall correctly 01:41:34 yah maybe. not too sure 01:41:42 i think the 48g+ had a 4mhz 01:42:23 i think they improved a lot of the important stuff 01:42:31 like the kernel, the editor, and the interface 01:42:33 going to 49g? 01:42:44 yeah 48 to 49 01:43:03 yah for sure. they also introduced some bugs and fucked up the keyboard 01:43:08 and i understand they use smaller letters 01:43:17 yeah.. 01:43:23 i got a 48g 01:43:28 i could upgrade its memory 01:43:33 i have a 48g and a 49g 01:43:40 then be able to install meta kernel, better editor, etc 01:43:47 yah 01:43:50 and be competive with a 49g 01:44:03 except you pretty much had to make your own memory. it was so expensive 01:44:17 it would be fun it add 8MB to my 48 ;) 01:44:22 the 49g has 2.5mb total memory 01:44:32 and the 49g+ can take sd cards, so a lot 01:44:49 yeah theres been quite a few 48 modification pages 01:44:58 yah 01:44:58 and some of them go up to 4mb and 8mb 01:45:07 i would love to soup mine up, but i cracked the screen 01:45:14 ouch 01:45:30 i still have an intact 49g, but i miss a few things on the 48 01:45:36 it put a cardboard insert into the holder 01:45:38 like the big enter key :) 01:45:42 er 01:45:44 i put a cardboard insert into the holder 01:45:57 almost immediately after reading about cracked screens :P 01:46:02 heh 01:46:18 the 49g comes with a plastic cover 01:46:27 i'd love to adapt like a palm keyboard to the hp 01:46:28 and it fits into the 48g case with it 01:46:36 code up an interface heh 01:46:46 yah. i tried to hook up a normal keyboard to it, but i never finished the code 01:47:10 yeah the plastic cover sucks 01:47:23 at least my screen wont crack 01:47:27 :) 01:47:38 --- quit: topher|zZz (Client Quit) 01:47:44 it's been on lots of trips 01:48:11 too bad they didnt let me design it :) 01:48:38 heh 01:49:06 hp shut down their whole graphics calculator branch afaik 01:49:19 they restarted it a little while ago 01:49:22 ah 01:49:28 the hp49g+ is the newest one they released 01:49:31 well there's prolly demand for forth calcs ;) 01:49:37 basicallly a hp49g running on an ARM 01:49:48 hell i want to get a smaller rpn calc 01:49:55 What I want to know is, what the hell took them so long? 01:49:55 like two line screen 01:50:04 kc5tja: to do what? 01:50:04 heh, yah no shit 01:50:10 making the emulator i guess 01:50:13 futhin: To dump Saturn in favor of a real processor. 01:50:14 switching to arm? 01:50:17 heh 01:50:29 kc5tja, it's just a saturn emulator 01:50:35 still saturn code 01:50:37 how much faster is arm at 60mhz than saturn at 4mhz? 01:50:38 So? 01:50:49 no idea 01:50:55 I suspect it's substantial. 01:50:59 as the calc runs pretty damned decent at 4mhz 01:51:06 yah 01:51:08 Like the 680x0 emulation in the new Palms, which themselves are based on ARMs. 01:51:16 and with the fixed kernel the graphics display was supposed to be a lot faster too 01:51:19 comp.sys.hp48 probably has benchmarks 01:51:57 they are using some arm instructions in the kernel actually 01:52:09 so there is a way to break out of the emulator 01:52:50 would be interesting to have a native system running on it 01:54:47 kc5tja: so is the emulator finished? 01:55:04 kc5tja: is it coded in python? 01:55:14 er 01:55:35 nevermind looks like its done in forth 01:56:06 guess its not done due to the segmentation faults? 01:56:10 whats with the !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 01:56:20 is that a way of debugging? :P 01:56:43 futhin: It's coded in Forth. 01:56:47 And no, it's not finished. 01:57:09 I'm having some serious issues right now with trying to get another test program to run. 01:57:24 The ! marks are debugging marks, yes. 01:58:50 oh my gawd 01:59:07 I've been ripping my hair out these last 30 minutes 01:59:14 becasue I wrote a fucking 3 instead of 4 01:59:16 AARGH 02:02:37 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 02:35:56 exit 02:35:58 --- quit: LOOP-HOG () 03:37:01 there a word to print out the number on the stack without a following space 03:37:16 do i need to use <# #> and will i find this out if I open up some manuals from google 03:54:36 --- quit: htp123 (Client Quit) 03:55:12 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:57:52 --- quit: poingie (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:18:10 --- join: LOOP-HOG (~jdamisch@sub22-119.member.dsl-only.net) joined #forth 04:25:27 --- join: crc (crc@0-1pool176-17.nas6.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 04:25:59 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 04:36:04 --- join: htp123 (~tehsux@S010600055d233ab7.gv.shawcable.net) joined #forth 04:47:03 exit 04:47:06 --- quit: LOOP-HOG () 05:56:04 --- join: LOOP-HOG (~jdamisch@63.105.22.119) joined #forth 06:19:50 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:24:40 --- join: fAL (NOT_NAME@195.218.176.92) joined #forth 06:25:57 sp-forth 4-15 is good forth system? 06:32:11 No idea, sorry 06:34:45 russian forth (spf4) is good forth? http://spf.sf.net 06:35:21 I don't speak russian, and I've never used it. 06:36:37 --- part: fAL left #forth 06:37:05 http://www.memnonio.com/forth.html 06:39:58 Is that your site? 06:40:14 Ah, yes it is. 06:41:11 yes 06:41:27 Feel free to add my homepage, http://robert.zizi.org/ if you want, it has some Forth content. Including an i386 Forth system. 06:41:27 i'm about to fall asleep, but if you check the WHATS NEW section 06:41:34 you can see that I've been sweeping 06:41:48 i can't sleep :^) 06:41:49 Ah, OK. 06:42:12 5 more minutues to Replication, and you will see it up there 06:42:25 ...? 06:45:34 sorry 06:45:40 i'm browsing the site a bit 06:45:58 is that i386 system the F system? 06:46:02 Yes. 06:46:10 ok, i'll put that in SYSTEMS 06:46:20 Look at the source, and you'll have to wash your eyes afterwards. 06:47:09 Nice, you have quite a lot of system there. 06:47:13 * Robert bookmarks. 06:47:50 Oh, Mars, is it? 06:48:43 darn it i am tierd and slow, i'll let you know when its ready, thanks. 06:48:58 No problem. :) 07:02:16 alright, see if you can spot the new links 07:02:31 * Robert tries 07:02:35 in GENERAL INFORMATION 07:02:57 in LINKS TO LINKS 07:03:13 in SYSTEMS 07:03:36 in PROJECTS 07:04:10 in HOME PAGES 07:04:26 in HARDWARE 07:04:33 I don't see anything in Projects. 07:05:03 Oh, but I see the Kestrel. :) 07:05:05 in COMPANYS 07:05:18 new in general 07:05:28 i must sleep b4 new ones added, argh 07:05:29 :) 07:05:45 OK, I don't know what's new and what was there before though. 07:05:54 However, it's a very nice page. 07:06:02 Thank You 07:06:29 in the topic for this site are 4 URLS, i'd love to be the 5th 07:07:25 need to sleep, bye 07:07:27 --- quit: LOOP-HOG () 07:07:28 I'm sure that's OK for the others. 07:07:30 Heh. 07:07:46 --- topic: set to 'FORTH programming language. Info: http://forth.bespin.org/resources/introduction ANSI: http://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpans.htm FIG83: http://forth.sourceforge.net/standard/fst83/ || :NOTICE: Kestrel project update! See http://www.falvotech.com/weblog for more details. || http://www.memnonio.com/forth.html' by Robert 07:12:42 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:21:50 hum 07:22:01 Robert, why do you have the dutch rip for that timmie guy on your page? :) 07:26:14 He's dutch. 07:33:41 ah 07:33:52 i just did that personality test again, infj 07:33:54 was that what i was 07:35:11 ah i was, heh 07:37:10 :D 07:37:18 Bleh 07:37:25 My sister spit in my bed... just because I read her diary. 07:37:33 what the.. 07:37:38 how old ... 07:38:11 and why'd you read her diary in the first place :p 07:43:58 13 07:44:01 And.. uh.. why not? 07:44:11 lol 07:44:16 I need to protect her from those filthy non-geek males 07:44:21 hahahah 07:44:50 but its still her diary. imo something that ought to be respected, no matter what your intentions are... 07:45:14 well ok there are exceptions, but i doubt yours fall in any of those :p 07:49:45 Hah 07:49:50 It's simply revenge. 07:50:03 Besides, when I'm away from IRC, she's saying stupid things here... 07:50:36 :) 07:53:16 Oh 07:53:35 And writing your diary in plain text must be punished. 07:54:01 :) 07:56:08 wow 07:56:19 how interesting. 07:56:26 that bug last night wore me out :P 07:57:46 Wonderful 07:57:48 and you know what it was? 07:57:52 No 07:57:54 I wrote a 3 instead of a 4 07:57:57 in one place. 07:58:00 thats it. 07:58:05 took me 30 minutes to find it. 07:58:05 lol 07:59:42 Just 30? 08:00:00 A single mov instruction took 6 months for me to fix. 08:00:50 lol 08:00:58 interesting 08:01:23 Very.... 08:02:39 hehe 08:44:00 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576399.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 08:44:00 --- quit: arke (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:00:02 --- join: arke (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-100-108.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 10:17:38 --- quit: htp123 (Client Quit) 10:31:05 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-244-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 10:32:05 --- quit: dpb9cpu (Remote closed the connection) 11:00:06 --- join: htp123 (~tehsux@S010600055d233ab7.gv.shawcable.net) joined #forth 11:00:06 --- quit: qFox (Connection reset by peer) 11:00:10 woa! neat gadget!: http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?ao=67802 11:03:44 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 11:04:25 Hi 11:04:42 hello 11:05:19 Moo. 11:09:47 --- quit: qFox ("this is mirc's last attempt of communication...") 11:09:55 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 11:10:55 wb 11:11:12 grmbl. load a script get your whole mirc fucked up. 11:11:25 i knew i shouldnt have done so in the first place 11:11:41 :) 11:31:25 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-235-77.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 11:39:07 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-MTL-ppp61041.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 11:43:39 --- join: divgrad (~wer@195.222.69.250) joined #forth 11:44:14 hi wossname 11:44:29 hi arke 11:44:35 life treating you good? 11:47:21 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-74-218-202.san.rr.com) joined #forth 11:47:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 11:47:30 Hi kc5tja :) 11:47:34 --- part: divgrad left #forth 11:47:35 hi kc5tja :) 11:47:35 Hey 11:47:38 wossname: not really 11:47:38 * kc5tja is not in a happy mood right now. 11:47:44 kc5tja: whas up? :( 11:47:57 arke? 11:48:01 The emulator has at least one very intractible bug in it and I just can't find a consistent case to reproduce it. 11:48:20 kc5tja: whats the bug? 11:48:27 As far as I can tell, the assembler and emulator don't agree on what certain opcodes ought to be. 11:48:33 wossname: you asked me easlier if life was treating me good 11:48:34 But when I test each opcode in isolation, they ALL WORK. 11:48:44 kc5tja: odd. 11:48:59 kc5tja: would you like us to take a look? 4, 6, 8 eyes are better than 2. 11:49:05 well, if you don't want to elaborate.. cool 11:49:32 arke: I can't at the moment. darcs is broken. I'd have to bundle a tar-ball and distribute by hand. 11:49:48 I'm rebuilding a newer version of darcs now. Hopefully this will solve that problem. 11:49:50 I somehow doubt it though. 11:50:00 I didn't see anything in the changelogs relavent to permissions problems. 11:50:43 :( 11:50:52 But the emulator IS showing great promise though. 11:50:59 I am very pleased that I have a flat frame buffer to work with. 11:51:08 Well, if you would like, I'd always be willing to take a good look. 11:51:09 I am VERY pleased that my 256 color palette works as well as I'd hoped! 11:51:10 kc5tja: awesome :) 11:51:35 kc5tja: well, there's a bug here ... for some reason, Jamagic isn't returning the directories, although I'm explicityl teling it to do so 11:51:46 The use of the 'magenta' bit concept is barely noticable, and in a real picture, you don't even see it. 11:52:06 It's only when you look at a pure red block on the screen that you notice a *slight* magenta hue to it. 11:52:33 :) 11:53:02 One of the programs I'm writing for the Kestrel now is a color picker tool. 11:53:08 :) 11:53:23 It'll let you fidget with all the red, green, and blue values. 11:53:33 So you can see how things work. 11:53:45 It'll look like it has a real 512-color palette. 11:53:55 (except to a trained eye) 11:55:56