00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.05.28
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00:17:50 <Serg> re
00:17:56 <fridge> hi
00:18:27 <Serg> ever coded trees ?
00:18:43 <fridge> no
00:25:07 <Serg> 2d games ?
00:27:19 <fridge> once I did a zork like game
00:27:29 <fridge> interactive fiction I think they call it now
00:27:32 <Serg> in Forth ?
00:27:34 <fridge> no graphical stuff thoguh
00:28:06 <Serg> i coded sokoban in 13H and ascii ;)
00:28:46 <fridge> no, that was in basic =)
00:30:18 * Serg reviews sokoban code
00:30:32 <Serg> : @@ @ swap @ swap ; ( adr1 adr2 -- val1 val2 )
00:30:32 <Serg> : @+ @@ + ; ( var1 var2 -- var2+var1 )
00:31:38 <Serg> : == 1 pick = ;
00:33:14 <Serg> the second version is all in one-line words ;))
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00:34:43 <Serg> for extra terseness, i even sacrificed idea of X and Y
00:35:03 <Serg> step up was -20, step right +1 etc.
00:38:57 <Herkamire> "1 pick" ???
00:39:14 <Herkamire> isn't that "over"?
00:41:52 <Serg> maybe... it was wr0tten while learning Forth, at 2002
00:44:55 <Serg> the resulting .COM file is only 5663 bytes under UPX - i was intended to make it 4096, 4k
00:45:32 <Herkamire> you made a Sokoban OS?
00:45:45 <Serg> no ;)) just DOS game ;))
00:45:50 <Herkamire> ok :)
00:47:10 <Serg> i have strong temptation to fire up VMware and mess a litle w/ protected mode 6))
00:54:37 <Serg> self-booting "hello, world !" ;))
02:16:58 <Herkamire> herkforth-0.6 released! http://herkamire.com/jason/herkforth
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02:22:58 <fridge> Herkamire: your website hurts my eyes
02:25:54 <fridge> maybe its an effect of my colour blindness or something =\
02:33:58 <Herkamire> fridge: do you have a text-only browser?
02:34:42 <Herkamire> fridge: that sucks. I'm asuming it's the color of the links that bothers you?
02:36:05 <fridge> no, its firefox
02:36:29 <fridge> If I had mozilla running I could set a different stylesheet
02:36:31 <Herkamire> I was asuming you weren't using one. I'm asking if you have one
02:37:57 <fridge> <hX> and the links are hard to read
02:38:39 <Herkamire> how about now?
02:39:31 <Herkamire> you can play with this if you want to change the link/headline colors: http://herkamire.com/jason/style.css?edit
02:39:45 <Herkamire> I'll change it if I really don't like it
02:39:47 <fridge> heh, nice
02:40:31 <Herkamire> I rarely go to my wiki in a graphical browser
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05:17:33 <fridge> mircfights
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06:20:10 <arke> moo
06:26:10 <Robert> Hello
06:27:44 <arke> Robert: I got linux running fullscreen under VMWare
06:27:53 <arke> Robert: its slow as shit, but it works :)
06:38:11 <Robert> Heh.
06:40:55 <arke> well, its actually somewhat fast.
06:41:00 <arke> I haven't timed it
06:41:20 <arke> but I think it probably is equivalent to 300-400 mhz, maybe 500
06:41:26 <arke> on a 1.2ghz computer
06:41:49 <Robert> Still faster than my main computer...
06:41:55 <arke> its good enough to continue F2 development
06:41:56 <arke> Robert: :)
06:44:27 <arke> away shower + school
06:45:13 <Robert> Enjoy
07:08:03 <arke> I won't.
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09:41:12 <qFox> yay. i have 33-36 out of 51 possible points for my english exam, pending some answers of which i'm not sure either they are counted as correct.
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09:44:18 <fridge> I never really 'got' english as a subject
09:44:35 <fridge> it was mainly talking about concepts and ideas
09:44:41 <fridge> not really english specific
09:45:06 <fridge> if they had drilled down through the history of the language and all its quirks and semantics then I would have called it english
09:52:31 <qFox> i was required to take this exam in order to go to university next year
09:54:13 <qFox> well i wasnt worried about this one (i practiced a whole of one exams prior to taking the exam today)
09:54:56 <qFox> the last one is a math exam, for which i'm still studying. thats gonna be all or nothing... i wish i had it done already :\
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12:16:19 <SolarFire> qFox: which university are you heading for?
12:16:24 <SolarFire> re Herkamire
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12:30:05 <qFox> university of utrecht (netherlands)
12:30:20 <qFox> to study cognitive artificial intelligence
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12:44:02 <SolarFire> qFox: how much are you into mas?
12:45:29 <qFox> mas? i guess not very much...
12:45:33 <qFox> (whats mas?)
12:45:57 <SolarFire> qFox: wasn't that you who was disturbed about me mentioning ontologies 3x this week? ;-)
12:46:08 <qFox> oh ro|
12:46:16 <qFox> yep
12:46:19 <SolarFire> mas multiagentsystems
12:46:27 <qFox> not at all, sorry
12:48:47 <SolarFire> but you're going into the field intelligent systems, yes? i mean the group of prof meyer?
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12:53:33 <qFox> yes, i guess so
12:54:02 <SolarFire> qFox: what was your focus in ai? to what level did you dig it?
12:57:19 <SolarFire> qFox: please forgive my curiousity ;-)
12:57:35 <qFox> i'm not sure what you mean, i'm not deep into ai, just curious and want to learn more about it.
12:58:00 <qFox> and i'm not very familiar with most of the terminology (that includes names), so you'll ahve to forgive me for that
12:58:36 <SolarFire> it's a field where you can count the good ones w/ your fingers
12:59:54 <SolarFire> qFox: built your own apps yet?
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13:07:48 <SolarFire> qFox: it's a 30min drive from utrecht to adam, no?
13:08:42 <qFox> i guess so
13:08:56 <qFox> i dont live in the area
13:09:24 <qFox> and i've built a random chatterbot for fun, but nothing more
13:10:48 <SolarFire> you could visit tim neitz in adam, he's a very kind person (if you have some relation to colorforth;)
13:11:52 <qFox> i'll pass :)
13:12:42 <SolarFire> nm might be useful for at a later time, who knows..
13:12:59 <SolarFire> *you
13:13:14 <qFox> :)
13:14:39 <SolarFire> you'll find him on ircnet #c4th (to check if i told you right)
13:14:53 <SolarFire> qFox: so how can i help you?
13:15:17 <qFox> sorry?
13:16:42 <SolarFire> qFox: maybe a list of my ai library, it's about 1-2gigs
13:18:53 <qFox> heh no thanks, i'm fine for now.
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13:20:56 <SolarFire> "qFox: so how can i help you?" don't be enstranged, it's somewhat my nature, actually nothing special on my mind
13:22:52 <qFox> well its just, you're coming on pretty strong, and i'm really just fine with everything right now. i first have to take, and make a last math test to even get started
13:29:38 <SolarFire> qFox: ok, go for it ;-) wishing you bon chance..
13:29:58 <slava> hey hey
13:32:42 <SolarFire> yes slava, sup?
13:33:28 <slava> debugging and writing unit tests
13:33:31 <slava> i had a great idea today
13:33:39 <slava> what if unit tests were in the source file so they ran each time the source was loaded
13:34:01 <slava> to avoid running them at each startup, dump/load an image
13:37:15 <SolarFire> slava: hmm. you mean for really big prj's?
13:38:58 <slava> any prj
13:39:07 <slava> like a forth implementation even
13:40:38 <SolarFire> qFox: btw. do you have a vision or some idea what to use ai for in real life (after study)?
13:43:25 <slava> what do you guys think of stack effect checker tools?
13:47:53 <ianp> slava: there was a article some time ago about embedding java unit tests in the source
13:48:00 <ianp> but i think it would work nicer for forth :)
13:52:01 <qFox> SolarFire> (whats with solarfire anyways), probably develop more on a theoretical level. 
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14:40:37 <I440r> slava forth shouldnt check that the users doing what he said he ws doing
14:40:41 <I440r> that just makes it slower
14:40:53 <I440r> also - a user should be allowed to cheat (shoot self in foot)
14:41:03 <slava> I440r, sure, but it should be up to the user
14:41:14 <I440r> yes
14:41:18 <I440r> not "the system"
14:41:21 <I440r> ther is no user
14:41:23 <I440r> there is no system
14:41:33 <I440r> there is NO SPOON!
14:41:35 <I440r> thers just forth
14:45:11 <I440r> unless were talking ans
14:45:15 <I440r> in that case there is a spoon
14:48:17 <SolarFire> qFox: "(whats with solarfire anyways)" <- not sure what you mean. But you don't plan to stay in the IvoryTower, do you? ;-) doesn't an ai theoretical level require quite some philosophical bench?
14:48:17 <I440r> :)
14:48:54 <qFox> yes
14:49:36 <SolarFire> oops s/bench/bent/ lol
14:50:38 <qFox> uh... well, yes anyways. but this study is a combination of a lot of different diciplines
14:50:43 <qFox> disciplines
14:50:45 <qFox> hm something
14:51:20 <qFox> philosophy, but also psycology, programming, math, langual
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14:56:38 <Fractal> Not spelling though eh?
14:56:54 <qFox> not spelling
14:57:15 <Fractal> (psychology/lingual)
14:57:24 <qFox> thats what i said.
14:57:26 <qFox> :p
14:57:49 <Fractal> Heh
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15:35:16 <arke_> hi
15:35:18 <arke_> im back
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15:37:09 <Robert> Hello
15:37:19 <Robert> I just worked Argentina on the radio. :)
15:37:24 <arke> Robert: :)
15:37:42 <arke> Robert: I'm gonna work on F in a moment.
15:40:05 <Robert> OK, enjoy
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15:44:20 <arke> Robert: :)
15:44:23 <arke> Robert: man
15:44:32 <arke> Robert: I'm gonna go read "Moving Forth" again before I do
15:44:44 <arke> (which would be my 45154th time or such :P)
15:45:40 <Robert> Hehe
15:45:44 <Robert> Nice doc, yeah :)
15:46:35 <arke> yeha
15:46:37 <arke> ugh
15:46:45 <arke> konq displays things so weird
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17:40:16 * arke made a cool song
17:40:19 <arke> its not done yet
17:40:26 <arke> but its cool nonetheless
17:40:31 <arke> I call it "Funky Milk"
17:42:16 <Robert> Heh
17:42:32 <Robert> You should be coding Forth, and then you're writing songs?
17:43:55 <arke> lol
17:43:58 <arke> I got sidetracked.
17:44:20 <arke> but I think I'll code now
17:44:28 <Robert> Yes you will!
17:44:33 <arke> I just have to make sure I can access my other HD from VMWare
17:45:07 <arke> OMFG
17:45:09 <arke> HORROR
17:45:10 <arke> HORROR
17:45:10 <arke> HORROR
17:45:10 <arke> HORROR
17:45:18 <arke> I just accidentally went into fvwm :(
17:49:30 <arke> fvwm is teh horrow
17:49:32 <arke> er
17:49:33 <arke> horror
17:49:56 <Robert> Heh
17:50:10 <arke> Robert: HD works :)
17:50:16 <arke> Robert: so, I'ma start soon.
17:50:27 <arke> or rather, continue
17:50:34 <arke> after I set up my programming environment
17:50:50 <arke> (some rush, blanket, and pr0n ready to be alt+tabbed)
17:51:17 <Robert> OK, that's more than I wanted to know.
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17:58:28 <arke> aaalrighty
17:58:31 <arke> heres the plan
17:58:50 <arke> I'll set up IRC and Music outside of linux, suchthat I won't be tempted to swithc to them
17:58:57 <arke> and my blanket is already here
18:18:36 <arke> finished rereading moving forh
18:18:39 <arke> gonna start now
18:18:51 <Robert> Good.
18:29:55 * arke is away: got called into work ---- I'll code more when I get back
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19:28:58 <futhin> feel the pain!
19:42:54 <Robert> OK.
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22:16:36 <factorbot> Hello everybody
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22:18:08 <factorbot> Hi enderak
22:18:22 <slava> enderak, wrong channel
22:18:24 <slava> they'll get annoyed :)
22:18:53 <enderak> sorry.. they're YOUR default settings, slava :)
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22:21:17 <kc5tja> Heh
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22:41:26 <futhin> kc5tja: hey whats that webhosting service that was located in vancouver?
22:42:19 <futhin> totally forget and i wanted to mention it to a friend
22:44:33 <kc5tja> NetNation
22:45:28 <futhin> ah thanks
22:45:32 <kc5tja> n/p
22:46:43 <futhin> ARGH!
22:47:00 <futhin> ctrl-w in firefox closes windows
22:47:09 <kc5tja> It closes tabs for me
22:47:14 <futhin> i type ctrl-w all the time in shell to delete the previous words
22:47:18 <futhin> yeah thats what i meant
22:47:23 <futhin> closes tabs
22:47:26 <futhin> geez
22:47:27 <kc5tja> Ahh
22:47:41 <futhin> i keep accidentally doing ctrl-w in firefox
22:48:22 <kc5tja> Hehe
22:48:45 <kc5tja> Dude, I really need to learn Emacs.  :(
22:48:54 <kc5tja> It's getting to the point where it's an absolute necessity at work.
22:49:03 <kc5tja> All the e-mail clients we have at work suck ass.
22:49:13 <kc5tja> Evolution is so bad I'm MUCH rather would work with Outlook!!
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22:51:55 <kc5tja> Anyway, I'm off to bed.  
22:52:21 <kc5tja> I'll be here tomorrow, of course.
22:52:34 <kc5tja> Man, I just haven't had much time at all to do much of anything.  :/
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23:50:11 <arke> back
23:50:14 <arke> :)
23:50:39 <arke> anybody alive? I've got a question
23:51:01 <slava> yo
23:52:59 <arke> Hi :)
23:53:07 <arke> ok, here's a question.
23:53:26 <arke> Would it really be in my best interest to keep my code field and parameter field separate?
23:53:43 <arke> Since I'm doing STC, I might as well start where the code field is and overlap to the parameter field
23:53:58 <arke> thus, have an implied code field
23:54:00 <arke> make sense?
23:55:10 <arke> and another thing...
23:55:24 <arke> I don't like the notation : foo ... ; immediate
23:55:31 <slava> what is the parameter field?
23:55:34 <arke> has anybody done something better than that?
23:56:05 <arke> slava: most anything :)
23:56:34 <arke> slava: for DTC/ITC colon definitions, it's a list of addresses of words to call in that order
23:56:35 <slava> like in a VARIABLE it holds the value?
23:56:41 <arke> yeah, exactly
23:56:47 <slava> and in STC?
23:57:06 <arke> the code to be executed
23:57:18 <arke> and the code field would then traditionally contain a jump there
23:57:23 <slava> ah
23:57:29 <arke> but since they are next to each other, ... why!?
23:57:29 <slava> why do you need the cfa then?
23:58:26 <arke> thats exactly what I was thinking
23:58:54 <arke> just put it all into one, and for words that it applies for, (variable etc.), make the first one a cfa jump
23:59:23 <slava> STC is nice btw
23:59:37 <arke> yeah
23:59:43 <arke> superior on most CPUs
23:59:44 <slava> also consider inlining short CODE words
23:59:58 <slava> like to add 2 integers, write the asm instead of a jump to the + pfa
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.05.28