00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.05.25 00:00:07 I think it was something like 2.8 to 3.0GB or so. 00:00:23 Roughly equivalent to a DVD-ROM. 00:00:29 huh 00:00:55 we've had a tape drive that did 6GB (8mm tapes for camcorders) 00:01:44 * kc5tja nods 00:02:01 hmmm... looks like I backup a bit less than 6GB to my server 00:05:31 rsync is such a nice way to backup 00:07:19 Except the first time you use it. :) 00:07:40 yeah, then it takes a while :) 00:08:30 IIRC I set it to limit bandwidth to 5KB/seccond and left it on for a loooong time in the background 00:09:15 a week and a half or something 00:10:42 I think more people should backup with rsync onto eachother's computers 00:11:28 make a 1GB partition for friends to use, and backup your important data on two of their computers 00:12:00 Heheh -- no need for P2P backup protocols then, I guess. 00:12:09 Although those are nice because it automates everything. 00:12:29 p2p would be cool 00:13:08 is there free software well suited to this? 00:13:27 it would be very cool to have this automated. 00:13:53 it would just run in the background, and periodically try to connect to a few friends, and slowly update your backups with them 00:16:32 I'd want it to be amung trusted friends though 00:17:08 I don't even know if it would work any other way 00:18:38 the redundancy can't go up too much, because then everyone would have to store too much 00:20:20 rsync can be automated, though I'm not sure how securely 00:20:57 rsync has a critical flaw -- unless you're willing to make complete duplicates of the backed up data, then if one server goes down, you'll lose that repository's contents. 00:20:58 should be good if you can figure out how to get ssh setup to do host-key authentication 00:21:55 what's a better way? 00:23:48 I use rsync over ssh. 00:23:56 rsync --rsh="ssh -l username" ...etc... 00:23:57 that's what I'm talking about 00:25:19 except to automate it you have to get ssh not to prompt for a password 00:34:18 Oh, yeah, that I don't know. 00:41:14 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 01:22:27 --- quit: Herkamire ("bed") 02:10:06 --- quit: arke (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03:10:58 --- join: rO| (rO|@pD9EE170A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 03:37:28 --- join: crc (~Charles_C@0-1pool176-31.nas6.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 03:40:26 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 04:30:43 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 04:48:38 --- quit: crc ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7b/20040316]") 04:59:32 --- join: harm^kuvo (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 05:02:42 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:17:46 --- join: madwork_ (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:23:00 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:23:16 --- join: arke (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-100-108.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 06:24:05 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 06:33:58 --- quit: Serg () 06:41:52 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@168-215-246-244.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 06:44:07 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@168-215-246-244.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 06:46:03 --- quit: I440r_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:58:57 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:59:37 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 07:01:04 is there a way to make wget skip robots.txt? 07:06:34 --- quit: mark4 ("Leaving") 07:10:03 just delete it afterwards, big deal, unless for some odd reason you manage to get robot.txts of megabytes :p 07:12:52 --- join: arke_ (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-100-108.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 07:14:33 --- join: arke__ (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-100-108.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 07:21:38 --- quit: arke_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:26:34 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:36:36 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-244.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 07:36:46 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 07:37:01 hi 07:37:03 hi I440r 07:37:09 hi 07:37:12 <-- at work 07:37:42 does IsForth have an option to suppress extra output, e.g. to work as filter ? 07:45:00 err im not sure what you mean but im sure it could be added 07:45:05 define extra output 07:46:24 hang on i gotta reboot, ill brb 07:46:28 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 08:02:01 --- quit: arke__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:02:03 --- join: arke (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-100-108.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 08:09:07 --- quit: Serg () 08:12:17 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-244.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 08:47:48 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:55:16 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-244.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 09:07:06 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 09:07:24 re 09:09:29 * Serg just cut my ass w/ a folding knife - pants -> /dev/null 09:10:00 Heh 09:10:05 Poor Serg :( 09:12:13 at old work, comp boards were the major cloths destroyer 09:12:40 (trash sec/hand computers company) 09:13:07 * fridge sends off his resume to a few more places 09:14:26 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@69.79.24.31) joined #forth 09:14:50 --- join: arke_ (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-100-108.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 09:14:59 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:15:48 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:17:18 fridge: i had 5 mettings a day w/ employers and only 2 a day w/ girls - it'll be nice to beat the record ;)) 09:17:55 girls take more time ;)) 09:18:22 haha 09:19:33 I don't think I'll be able to match you with the girls, I've already got one, she's enough for me =) 09:27:56 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@64.47.44.254) joined #forth 09:28:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 09:31:51 --- join: koft (asasd@dialup-4.152.216.86.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net) joined #forth 09:33:09 fridge: the girl of my dream is hard to find, most ones are denied for attempts to suck money from me or for talks about marriage/kids 09:37:22 I'm getting married in january 09:37:47 fridge im jelous! 09:37:52 does your gf have a sister ??? :) 09:37:59 yes 09:38:26 though her sister is 16 09:38:34 ill take her lol! 09:38:37 in 2 years 09:38:54 she's moved to tasmania last I heard 09:39:05 you'd have to hunt her down first 09:39:25 though that'd be half the fun 09:41:10 lol 09:41:16 i can't imagine myself devoid of my freedom ;)) i usually commit only things i can easily rollback or take failure easily 09:42:35 she makes me feel content, so I have no problem committing to contentment =) 09:46:13 i feel content from having all sorts of fun ;)) 09:49:19 i always think "what if i want things back" ? 09:51:02 --- join: Koaftder (asasd@01-124.098.popsite.net) joined #forth 09:53:10 --- quit: koft (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:27:41 --- quit: Serg () 10:51:38 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:52:11 --- quit: Koaftder (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:52:44 --- join: Koaftder (asasd@01-124.098.popsite.net) joined #forth 12:21:03 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:21:22 --- nick: Koaftder -> koft 12:34:59 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-MTL-ppp66102.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 12:39:04 --- join: mark4 (~FooBlah@64.47.44.254) joined #forth 12:46:24 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 12:48:55 --- quit: mark4 (Operation timed out) 12:54:49 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.204) joined #forth 12:55:00 Dobry veczer! 12:55:16 --- quit: I440r (Success) 13:05:53 It seems like everyone's dead. 13:06:08 Nyet. :) 13:06:11 Privet, ASau 13:06:21 Privet, Robert! 13:07:12 How's Forth? 13:07:37 Well, I've been playing with a Forth compiler for the PIC chips. 13:08:04 Where do you get ones? 13:08:07 Is it theoretical? 13:08:21 Microchip send free samples. :) 13:08:30 Hm. 13:08:38 And I'll of course do most of the work on a simulator 13:09:20 Theoretical horse. Spherical and vacuumed. 13:09:36 Heh 13:12:07 And I've been reducing my codebase. 13:13:04 3MB in March to 600 KB now is good enough. 13:15:17 I've reduced hierarchy so I almost don't use it now. 13:15:52 BTW, I have a good suggestion. 13:16:21 You could help very much if you'd join. 13:16:35 I think of writing hardware drivers in Forth. 13:17:25 It would not be optimal, of course, but this will help Forth OS writers very much. 13:18:14 hi ASau! 13:18:26 Privet, slava! 13:28:51 --- nick: rO| -> SolarFire 13:38:55 Hardware drivers for what? 13:42:24 --- quit: koft (No route to host) 13:42:37 For FDDs, HDDs, sound cards, video cards etc. 13:43:37 You see many words "Forth is good for hardware" but many drivers are in C. 13:44:10 I wrote a FDD driver in Forth. And we all know Chuck's IDE drivers. ;) 13:44:16 Indeed, I've taken a look at /usr/src/linux-2.4.20/drivers/block/floppy.c :) 13:45:41 Hm. 13:45:44 Wait a minute. 13:47:57 Why don't you publish? 13:48:12 It is 13:48:17 robert.zizi.org/f.html 13:48:44 Most of it is ripped off Enth/Flux. :) 13:48:51 And ported to my Forth 13:50:46 Well. Now I've found it. 13:51:15 I think that such things should separate for a kind of repository. 13:51:38 I think that such things should got separate for a kind of repository. 13:51:45 I think that such things should go separate to a kind of repository. 13:52:20 Sorry, my Elngish gets worse and worse. 14:00:24 --- quit: SolarFire ("brb") 14:00:47 --- join: SolarFire (SolarFire@pD9EE170A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:05:17 --- join: koft (~Snak@ip68-96-7-200.hr.hr.cox.net) joined #forth 14:15:54 --- join: arke__ (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-100-108.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 14:15:59 --- quit: arke_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:22:26 --- join: lalalim (~lalalim@p508AB127.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:24:06 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-244.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 14:24:55 ASau: It can't get as bad as my russian. 14:33:22 ASau: Memory overflow. :) 14:33:37 Too many parallel tasks. 14:33:42 Heh 14:33:58 --- quit: SolarFire ("brb") 14:34:24 When I find more time I plan to release portions of my code. 14:34:41 I tend to write "one-screeners," it seems. 14:35:34 I tend to write ugly and non-working code, it seems. 14:37:17 I'll test. 14:40:57 Actually I've got problems with debugging low-level code: Linux. 14:41:14 I don't like too frequent reboots. 14:41:50 I reboot when I've run out for a memory ;) 14:41:59 out of memory* 14:45:38 --- join: crc (~Charles_C@0-1pool88-114.nas48.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 14:45:50 the more i work with postfix, the shorter my definitions become 14:45:53 and more readable 14:47:20 Nice! 14:47:26 I like readable Forth. 14:48:34 --- quit: lalalim_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:49:08 --- join: SolarFire (SolarFire@pD9EE170A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:49:49 Dobryjj vecher, crc! 14:49:55 Hello ASau 14:50:33 Out of curiosity, what does "Dobryjj vecher" mean? 14:50:49 good evening 14:50:58 Ok 14:51:04 I'm hanging on Linux most of the time now, so I can work on your code part time. 14:51:13 cool 14:51:56 I'm too lazy to port my kernel to Linux, so I'll take a look at RF. 14:52:02 I'm planning to reinstall Linux (again). I have a bad habit of ruining things by running as root. :-) 14:52:21 I finally got inline strings (s" and .") working 14:52:29 crc, writing a forth? 14:52:38 retroforth.org 14:52:50 AFACR 14:52:58 AFAIR 14:53:15 Yup. I took over tcn's RetroForth when he abandoned it in 2002. 14:54:13 * crc is currently attempting to write documentation for it 14:55:01 the notebook tool looks like what i'm trying to develop at the moment for my online help system 14:56:09 I love NoteBook. I use it for almost all of the documents I write now :-) 14:56:38 crc, what i'm developing is similar to notebook, except it more front-ends (tty, http, gui) and integrated scripting using my language 14:57:00 Sounds interesting 14:57:13 What language are you writing it in? 14:57:33 java 14:57:54 well only the compiler/interpreter 14:58:10 * crc hates Java! 14:58:17 * slava hates tcl/tk :) 14:58:37 * Robert hates everyone who doesn't agree with him on every occasion. 14:58:44 if you skip the gui, my project should run with gcj and kaffe too. 14:58:52 I do to, but the runtimes for tcl/tk are much smaller than those for Java 14:59:19 i agree -- sun bundles too many libraries with the JRE. 14:59:27 that's why GCJ compatibility is a goal 14:59:38 since GCC and hence GCJ is bundled with most new linux distros 14:59:58 Ahh, now that would make it more useful 15:00:38 GCJ compiled alls run at about the same speed as sun's JRE, but start much quicker 15:00:46 apps not alls :)_ 15:00:51 * crc wonders if anyone agrees with Robert on every occasion? 15:01:05 That's a good thing 15:01:24 --- quit: mur (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:01:32 crc: My brain-washed slaves do. 15:01:35 Does GCJ creates native code? 15:01:39 crc, yes 15:01:49 there is one aspect that makes GCJ slower though 15:01:51 crc: The ones who didn't mysteriously disappear in the night. 15:01:55 * crc is impressed. Robert has brainwashed slaves! 15:02:04 Chuck Moore has, too. :P 15:02:07 if you generate JVM bytecode at runtime (as a scripting language does), the sun JVM will convert this to native code on the fly using its JIT 15:02:17 but GCJ can only interpretet the resulting byte code 15:02:31 the GCJ runtime has no means of JIT-ing the bytecode. 15:02:38 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 15:03:09 I see. But if someone writes a JIT runtime for GCJ, it should beat JVM for speed. 15:03:21 that's a big "if" 15:03:35 I understand that 15:03:41 kaffe has a JIT, and its much slower than's sun's 15:03:51 If I still used Java and C/C++, I'd give it a try 15:04:00 i'm not a fan of C/C++ 15:04:04 but i like C++ marginally better than C 15:04:16 * crc just uses assembly and Forth these days 15:04:23 heh 15:04:33 C++ is a bloated language compared with C 15:04:35 that's true 15:04:38 but its more typesafe 15:05:08 That's true only *if* you don't fall back to C programming methods when using it. 15:05:13 of course 15:05:31 I don't care about types too much. 15:05:40 --- nick: harm^kuvo -> kuvos 15:05:58 like most forth programmers :) 15:06:06 True. 15:06:15 i like runtime type info mainly for debugging -- if something goes wrong, its easier to see what's going on IMHO 15:06:21 static type checking at compile time is somewhat constraining... 15:06:42 You have to do debugging? 15:06:52 in the general sense 15:06:55 i don't usually use debuggers 15:07:16 Actually, LibC do not support the point of "C is not bloated." 15:07:29 ASau, especially GNU libc 15:07:34 C *as a language* is not bloated 15:07:45 crc. But useless. 15:08:05 Not totally true. 15:08:20 try c on the gba >:o 15:08:23 It has no I/O in language. 15:08:28 gba, 100% memory mapped i/o 15:08:35 how does FORTH's SEE word work usually? 15:08:52 It does not. 15:08:58 :) 15:09:14 "Radical Minimalists' Front." 15:09:29 You can use memory mapped I/O, or code your own subroutines if you need it. 15:09:59 Well. In case of memory mapped I/O C is not useless. 15:10:18 what does it mean, "no I/O in the language" 15:10:20 But that's another, not Intel world. 15:10:22 When I used C, I had a routine that created a sequence of bytes in memory, then an indirect function call to it. That works fairly well (assuming you have executable data segments...) 15:10:23 FORTH doesn't have I/O in the language either. 15:10:38 EMIT KEY ?TERMINAL 15:10:48 R/W 15:10:48 they're not 'in the language' 15:10:52 they're colon definitions. 15:10:59 Not in RetroForth 15:11:03 primitives? 15:11:08 Sorry? 15:11:09 Yes 15:11:19 They're CODEd 15:11:37 so in C, I could write I/O that does system calls, using inline assembly. 15:11:55 Key word is "assembly." 15:12:11 This is another language. 15:12:29 actually, c supports i/o 15:12:45 prepare an array of bytes, point a function pointer to it 15:12:52 wossname: Through LibC you mean. 15:13:12 LibC is not part of language as crc points. 15:13:14 ASau, ditto with CODE -- its another language (even if its implemented in FORTH). 15:13:33 if you're use a function pointer to some hand assembled bytes, then you're still in c 15:13:50 not dependant on any special inline asm 15:14:06 slava, R/W, EMIT, KEY and others are already _inside_. 15:14:16 But it *is* inline assembly 15:14:20 wossname: you mean this 15:14:25 You just hand compiled it! 15:14:41 well, my c turns into assembly too 15:14:46 int io_func() { 0x00, 0x01, 0x02, ... } 15:14:47 and i'm not using any special libraries 15:15:06 pure c :D 15:15:31 It's not pure C. If I take your code, move it to another CPU, and recompile it, it will *not* work. 15:15:55 You just coded your own assembly library using C functions, but it's still assembly. 15:15:57 ah, point. well, i suppose C is missing a 'input' and 'output' keyword. :( 15:16:06 it doesn't need them though 15:16:12 how would you make genrealized input/output keywords?! 15:16:23 having EMIT in the language is not a big deal either, since EMIT is so primitive 15:16:51 slava, it is stated that C without LibC is useless. 15:17:39 c is useless without an input/output library 15:17:55 I've used C (without libc) to create useful subroutines that could be used with RetroForth :-) 15:18:13 ASau, you can have a very basic libC with a dozen or so I/O functions only 15:18:30 It all depends on your definition of "useful" 15:18:31 OK. I correct: bare C w/o LibC... 15:18:32 :) 15:18:55 ASau, i thought you meant "C without libC (= big bloated libC) is useless" 15:18:56 "C alone" 15:19:22 working c code is generally much more portable than working forth code, right? 15:19:35 slava, actually you can see that the most common fun. call is "*printf". 15:19:44 wossname, no. 15:20:16 so if you wrote a snippet of forth, you could deal with file i/o and it would be likely to work properly on just about any other forth? 15:20:23 wossname, remove CPP to see this. 15:21:08 wossname, substitute "file" with "block." 15:21:22 libraries of functions and macros are basic needs of just about any useful and portable program 15:21:24 BLOCK is part of the language. 15:21:39 or, that's not true :( 15:21:55 Exactly what is in the Forth language? 15:22:03 i suppose languages like lisp and forth get off easy 15:22:04 Well, do you refer to stripped dialect? 15:22:10 I tend to think that it depends on the implementation 15:22:37 "Common Forth" looks good. 15:23:25 What is "common forth"? 15:23:43 That's the question. 15:23:48 :) 15:24:27 Until there is an accepted base, I'll stick with RetroForth's dialect :-) 15:24:38 FIG, 79, 83 and ANS dialects include BLOCKs. 15:25:05 These are the most widespread. 15:25:12 Derivatives included. 15:25:38 * crc has been working on a block implementation, which stores blocks in a file. 15:25:48 It's not part of the core language though 15:25:56 I've done this. 15:26:22 Cashing is done through FIG words, R/W is mine. 15:26:55 * crc did use small (512 bytes) blocks for persistant storage on a hard drive in RetroForth/Native 5.x 15:27:30 Classic FIG block is B/BUF bytes long. 15:27:44 My B/BUF is 512. 15:28:30 I use 256, 512, or 1024 byte blocks (depending on the value of block-size) 15:28:38 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:28:45 That's not a problem. 15:29:04 (My block implementation is not availible with RetroForth yet, and probably isn't standard in any way :-) ) 15:29:08 AFAIK, Commodore FIG Forth used 128 CONSTANT B/BUF 15:30:19 I once thought of 64 bytes/block. :) 15:30:51 That would be a small block! 15:30:51 --- join: I440r (~FooBlah@168-215-246-244.gen.twtelecom.net) joined #forth 15:31:01 1 line. 15:31:18 What words are used with blocks? 15:31:29 --- join: SolarFire[ (SolarFire@pD9EE18D4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:31:38 Let me recall... 15:31:54 B/BUF is size of block in bytes. 15:32:10 B/SCR is number of blocks in screen (1 KB). 15:32:25 C/L is 64 (char/line). 15:32:50 #BUFF is number of blocks (buffers) cached in memory. 15:33:07 FIRST is address of first such buffer. 15:33:38 +BUF used in caching (move to the next). 15:33:58 BUFFER reserves new buffer. 15:34:15 BLOCK brings block from disk on demand. 15:35:05 UPDATE marks the most recently referenced block as changed. 15:35:24 --- join: Herkamire (stjohns@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:35:46 It seems these words are enough. 15:36:13 Somewhat different than what I had in mind 15:38:29 USE and PREV points to the most recently saved and accessed blocks. 15:38:55 EMPTY-BUFFERS cleans cache. 15:39:03 FLUSH flushes. 15:40:12 R/W is driver, it physically reads and writes. 15:40:42 I've factored FETCH out of BLOCK. It forcefully read block in. 15:40:49 --- quit: SolarFire (Nick collision from services.) 15:41:11 --- nick: SolarFire[ -> Solarfire 15:42:20 Actually, I've tried to refactor FIG words. The source was too hard to read. 15:42:25 Here's what I have (partially) working in RetroForth: 15:42:27 block-size = size of a block (in bytes) 15:42:36 block-buffer = start address of blocks in memory 15:42:43 num-blocks = number of blocks in memory 15:42:54 next-block = advance to next block 15:43:00 prev-block = back to previous block 15:43:06 load = load blocks (from a given source) to block-buffer 15:43:13 save = write blocks starting at block-buffer (to a given source) 15:43:20 And that's it at the moment. 15:43:50 (load and save *only* work under Windows at the moment, and even then they are buggy) 15:44:02 --- part: koft left #forth 15:44:20 --- nick: arke__ -> arke 15:44:20 The names are subject to change before I release the code (possibly in the next version of RF) 15:44:22 Herkamire: have a look for jason on sf.net lol 15:44:27 hi 15:44:33 --- join: wmg (~weldon@c208-37-6-201.ip.newc.com) joined #forth 15:44:39 It looks you do no chaching. 15:45:07 * Solarfire rO| greets crc 15:45:10 I keep all blocks loaded in memory, and load or save them all at once. 15:45:20 Hello rO| 15:45:41 crc. RAM disk? 15:46:27 Dobry veczer, rO| 15:46:29 I have a physical file (retroforth.blocks) on the hard drive, I load it to a buffer, work with it, then save it back to that file 15:47:38 That looks like you load RAM disk initially from a file, work and save final RAM disk state to a file. 15:47:44 The retroforth.blocks file is a fixed size (any multiple of 1k) The exact size can be changed with a variable later on 15:47:47 Yes 15:47:52 That's what I do 15:48:13 Then I don't understand what do you do. 15:48:17 hi 15:48:32 You have the most simple thing in the world: 15:48:50 : BLOCK B/BUF * ORIGIN + ; 15:49:25 Other two words are READ-IN and WRITE-OUT 15:49:31 --- part: wmg left #forth 15:50:47 Hm. 15:50:50 Well. 15:51:19 * arke is wget-ing ralf brown's interrupt list 15:52:03 My code is: 15:52:03 OK. That's what you've described above actually. I missed that. 15:52:10 here $100000 + variable block-buffer 15:52:24 512 variable block-size 15:52:31 1000 variable num-blocks 15:52:37 0 variable curr-block 15:52:45 : next-block curr-block dup @ block-size @ + swap ! ; 15:52:52 : prev-block curr-block dup @ block-size @ - swap ! ; 15:53:10 And then "load" and "save" are primitives 15:53:41 I don't understand why do you need your next-block and prev-block. 15:53:52 I need to learn to load and save a file under Linux using NASM and just the system calls before I can proceed 15:54:09 They're just for convience when editing a block. 15:54:11 man read; man write 15:54:41 I've read the man pages. I find it easier to learn from code samples :-) 15:54:54 Linux calls are C's read(fd,buf,count) and write(fd,buf,count) 15:55:26 Opening the file is where most of the trouble comes 15:55:43 Hm. 15:55:59 Look into C kernel headers. 15:56:18 * crc hates GAS syntax 15:56:20 You have to find what O_RDWR is. 15:56:55 Or write in C: printf("%d", O_RDWD); 15:56:59 Or write in C: printf("%d", O_RDWR); 15:57:19 man open(3), AFAIR. 15:58:02 fd=open("file-name.ext", O_RDWR); (?) 15:58:27 hello ASau :-) already chillin time here, mostly afk 15:59:09 Dobre jitro, Solarfire. 15:59:28 jitro night? 15:59:36 Morning. 15:59:47 ah better :-) 16:01:12 Solarfire: this? http://jason.sourceforge.net/ 16:04:20 yes 16:05:18 why not putting the pic on your wiki? i didn't dare to ;-) 16:07:14 ok nm jk don't even know why i laughed, maybe to cough out the daily wierdness 16:07:23 whats a good free web host? 16:07:56 homebrewn(tm) 16:12:45 :P 16:17:08 * Solarfire hopes Herkamire is not angry at him now :/ 16:18:05 * crc will return soon... 16:18:06 --- quit: crc ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7b/20040316]") 16:19:54 The return of crc Part III - see it next month at your cineplex... 16:22:04 crc evil! 16:22:36 lol 16:22:51 evil evil evil 16:22:52 expell! 16:23:08 hm, no, exorcise! 16:23:10 --- nick: arke -> _ 16:23:19 yes, hide 16:23:22 <_> ChanServ sets mode: [+o arke] 16:23:32 ...and don't forget your 3D glasses 16:23:34 --- nick: _ -> arke 16:23:51 * arke kicks qFox from #forth (bleh). 16:24:09 arke> Did you know.... that everyone has his own layout for irc? events and what not... 16:24:19 [+o arke] looked weird :p 16:24:27 and i'm not talking about you getting ops ;) 16:25:47 hm 16:25:50 whats he doing here 16:25:51 .p 16:25:52 --- part: kuvos left #forth 16:38:12 back from dinner 16:38:27 Solarfire: that's actually not me in the picture ;) 16:39:16 ok released :-) 16:40:16 Herkamire: I want a website :) 16:40:22 * arke gives angel look 16:40:28 * arke gives puppy eyes 16:40:31 Solarfire: what's released? 16:40:45 Herkamire: :P 16:40:53 Herkamire: which reminds me, I wanna check on your wiki 16:46:23 Herkamire: s/released/relieved/ 16:48:05 arke: sorry, I don't do free websites. feel free to make wiki pages though 16:48:12 aww :) 16:48:20 ^_^\ 17:06:33 --- join: crc (~Charles_C@0-1pool88-40.nas48.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 17:07:34 ASau: RetroForth/Linux can now load blocks from a file; saving isn't working quite right yet though 17:08:57 its not retro enough! 17:08:58 add more retro! 17:09:03 REEEETTRRRROOOO!!! 17:09:23 Why isn't it retro enough? 17:10:51 its not using punchcards 17:11:47 I ran out of those years ago. Do you know where I can get more? :-) 17:12:20 Under RetroForth/Windows, loading and saving blocks now works 17:13:04 add more retro and add some tachyon and boom, it won't be retro, it'll be futuristic cuz of time travel! 17:13:14 tachyon particlesw 17:13:43 Hmm, all I need to do before releasing RetroForth 6.31 is to fix the save feature under Linux and add support for load/save under the FreeBSD port 17:13:53 futhin: you're going overboard 17:14:45 time travel is impossible in the real world 17:15:06 delicious icecream 17:15:10 icecream is very tasty 17:15:12 ah hell time travel to the future is easy, its time travel to the past thats hard 17:15:17 mmm icecream. icecream and nethack 17:16:04 Time ONLY moves forward, not reverse. 17:16:30 To do "time travel", you'd have to leave the influence of time. 17:17:01 wossname: what type of ice cream is tasty? 17:17:31 futhin: have you ever travelled into the future (or the past?) 17:17:31 caramel, nuts and french vanilla :( 17:17:35 it's all GORN 17:17:41 * crc wants some! 17:29:18 crc: sure, in 5 hours i'll have travelled into tomorrow 17:29:50 But you're still in the present 17:29:55 better yet, if you stick me near a high gravity field or put me in cryostasis i'll be able to travel into the future quicker 17:30:03 You are just following the flow of time 17:30:18 so? its still time travel 17:30:24 second by second into the future 17:30:35 If you are in a hgf, you'll be in a different future than the rest of us! 17:30:42 * crc shakes his head 17:31:08 hgf? 17:31:15 hmm 17:31:15 o_0 timetravelparadoxdiscussions 17:31:24 nah its not even that qfox 17:31:29 into the future 17:31:31 no backwards 17:31:32 --- quit: ChanServ (ACK! SIGSEGV!) 17:31:35 thats timetravel.. 17:31:47 paradox only comes from time travel into the past 17:32:03 fine, leave out the paradox, just makes a longer word :( 17:33:07 hgf = high gravity field 17:33:12 but here's a paradox. what if you go forward in time, then teach yourself something that will have a impact on the world, go back and commit suicide. 17:33:16 crc: leaving the hgf brings ya back to the future 17:33:31 The question is /which/ future. 17:33:33 although i guess, from the future point of view, you're still traveling backwards 17:33:44 ah fine, nevermind 17:33:45 qfox: i didn't say anything about going back to the "present" 17:33:51 :) 17:34:00 just a one way time travel to the future 17:34:01 o_0 timetravel...discussions 17:34:03 with no option to go backwards 17:34:46 i think its possible btw, both ways. to predict what future you end up once you went back is impossible though. 17:34:50 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 17:34:50 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 17:34:54 crc: what do you mean which? going to an hgf or cryostasis and then leaving hgf/cryostasis brings you back to the same future 17:35:01 In some theories, leaving the present, by entering a hgf, then returning to the new present would leave you in a new future 17:35:03 but nevermind me, go on with your discussion :) 17:36:20 qfox: cryostasis or hgf would be an easy way to travel into the future. like i've considered the possibility of jumping 50 years into the future at a time and coming out of cryostasis to find out what is new etc 17:36:43 its not traveling into the future really. 17:36:50 it would sort of be neat to jump into the future like 10 years or 50 years at a time and keep on going ad infinitum 17:37:02 in that case, sleeping would be considered traveling into the future 17:37:14 i dont quite agree on the terminology. 17:37:16 yeah it is 17:37:23 then you aren't thinking outside of the box 17:37:27 oh i do 17:37:54 i think its possible to travel "thru" time, like you can go forwards, backwards, left, right, up and down 17:38:07 except, we simply dont know how to go forward/backwards in time... (yet?) 17:38:57 i have this whole dimension theory thing, with a nice model and everything, which would also clearly show why time would be a dimension :) 17:39:04 it's been established that a hgf or cryostasis is the valid way to travel into the future 17:39:24 unsafe 17:39:40 and i personally still object to it being called "traveling to the future" 17:40:15 i object to your objection 17:40:16 at least the cryostasis, i dont know what hgf does. 17:40:50 well, you are allowed to do so, just as i am :) 17:40:58 In an hgf, you can slow time, allowing you to remain the same age, while the universe around you continues to age 17:41:14 ah right. 17:41:34 ok, i can agree on hgf being time traveling 17:41:41 but not cryostasis 17:42:09 crc: yeah so when you leave hgf how are you in a "different" future? the universe has aged, you're back into normal time in the same universe in the future 17:42:20 from outside the box, with css, you still "experience" the time flowing, albeit not conciously 17:42:32 in hgf, you would not. 17:43:43 *You* never leave the present during use of an hgf. The world is older, but for you, time has not passed. 17:43:47 this makes me remember my rant on e=mc2 on some board a few years back. its fun to say on a uh, physics (?) board, "lets asume a photon has a mass" 17:44:48 crc> btw, you are not "the same age", if i make a comment to that small detail :p 17:45:17 but i dont believe instant timetraveling is something possible. everything takes time, how little it might be 17:45:31 I agree to that 17:45:47 so does movement (which supports my you can move on time thing) 17:46:00 You are older, but you age at the same rate you would have if you hadn't entered an hgf 17:46:13 but in cryostasis, your body ages the same amount as the surrounding, hence its not time traveling 17:46:36 so i cannot agree on it being timetraveling, except perhaps for the mind. but thats just wrong. 17:47:19 --- quit: wossname (";(") 17:47:45 i guess, timetraveling, is moving out of time sync with your surroundings (god this is sounding more and more like star trek :p) 17:48:57 actually, this will only result in a forward leap in time, never backwards, from your startpoint. 17:50:24 It should be easier to travel back in time using an hgf 17:50:58 no, you'll always end up at a pointer AFTER your startpoint... you will just have passed more time then the rest. 17:51:18 hi 17:51:20 Travel opposite of the direction that time is being pulled and you move back in time proportionally to the gravitational field's strength and the distance you travel 17:51:23 Hello slava 17:51:50 crc, do you maintain BSD port in parallel? 17:52:12 I maintain all of the ports (Linux, Windows, BSD, Native) in parallel. 17:52:40 Hell! 17:52:46 crc> um, ok you went outside my grasp, but if you go slower in time then your surroundings (what i think is the obvious of going to the future thing), you'll end up ahead of time, not back... i cant quite see how going back would work. 17:52:50 I'm hoping Jens (author of the FreeBSD port) will help with the load/save under BSD 17:52:52 Rebooting, rebooting and rebooting... 17:53:18 That should be the practically the same. 17:53:20 how do you get the direction of time anyhow? 17:53:24 Not too much. I use Bochs, and SSH to computers running those OSes 17:53:57 AFAIK, you need only push arguments to stack and lcall kernel. 17:54:17 Maybe text preprocessor would be useful. 17:54:30 But that's not the way. 17:54:31 qFox: Watch the direction particles in space are pulled by the hgf. Time is pulled the same direction 17:54:44 --- join: warp0b00 (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 17:54:45 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:54:50 hmmm 17:54:58 ok if you say so. 17:55:14 ASau: Most of the code is the same across all platforms. Only key, emit, cr, and bye have to be coded for a new OS 17:55:29 (Oh, and the needed memory setup (rwx all segments) ) 17:56:00 but i'm not sure if its even possible for US to be in a negative time direction (as, i think, we are bound by the rules of physics, to a positive time flow direction) 17:56:22 i still say its POSSIBLE to traverse in time, just not sure if its possible for US. 17:56:25 It took about a week (maybe two) for tcn to do the original Linux port, a month for the Windows port, and two-three weeks for the FreeBSD port 17:56:58 qFox: I agree with you there. 17:57:27 crc. I see. 17:57:38 Forth's high modularity helps. 17:57:44 Yes it does. 17:58:16 And after tcn sent me the Linux port I tried to rework the code to be as portable across the x86 architecture as possible. 17:59:10 All ports have the same words and the same limitations. Learn to use it on one OS, and you can use it on any OS we port it to 18:00:14 Some things (like blocks and load/save) will probably be optional 18:00:54 Well. I'll take a look. 18:01:42 I think you won't increase version number in 24 hours. :) 18:01:57 Probably not. 18:02:14 I tend to do a new version every 2-4 weeks though 18:02:32 Sometimes longer, depending on how much pain my wrists are in 18:03:11 * crc hates carpal tunnel syndrome 18:04:08 crc> is anything that does not experience time the same way you do, traveling in time? 18:04:25 like, i believe a fly experiences time slower then we do 18:05:07 It might. I've read some research on this, but it's mostly speculative 18:05:58 i dont think it can ever be proven really 18:06:13 (i havent read much about the subject, its just my own thoughts about time and so) 18:08:07 Time travel isn't my hobby. I tend to spend more time reading on quantum mechanics and the like. 18:08:42 * crc yells at futhin for turning a mention of RetroForth into a discussion on time travel 18:08:46 :-) 18:09:17 hm, i've spent quite some time on this matter, but havent really dived into material of it yet. 18:09:33 i have this theory that if i think about it myself first, i wont be influenced by other idea's... 18:09:58 where-as if i read about it, and think "yeah this sounds reasonable" i wont think the other way, you know 18:11:55 Hm. 18:12:13 crc. I've completely forgotten about one thing. 18:12:24 what? 18:13:05 I've just looked at your FASM and NASM macros to recall. 18:13:18 Have you ever used LEX? 18:13:28 This is very interesting engine. 18:13:33 A long time ago. 18:13:44 It was overly complex from what I recall of it 18:14:00 I don't thing it's complex. 18:14:33 I've successfully used it to collect statistics on words' usage in source. 18:15:42 anybody seen SwiftForth? 18:16:02 crc. This way: wstat < file-name | sort | uniq -c | sort | less 18:16:25 Where wstat was generated from LEX source. 18:16:38 interesting 18:16:57 I was digging Alan Pratt's C-Forth. 18:17:20 * crc never managed to get c-forth to compile 18:17:40 It's FIG style Forth written in LEX+YACC. 18:17:48 I've managed to build it. 18:18:56 This happened about a month before, that's why I forgot. 18:19:31 Now I can't even recall, because my HDD has ruined about a week ago. 18:19:49 That's a shame :-( 18:20:07 AFAICR, I hacked several things in generated lex.yy.c or like. 18:20:59 But I liked the idea. 18:21:04 I gave up on C for the most part 18:21:17 I understand. 18:21:41 I got fed up with it while attempting to write a C compiler :-) 18:21:53 "We have enough gas." 18:22:26 what? 18:22:36 I mean "gas is enough." 18:22:55 No! I don't use gas! 18:22:58 gas is evil! 18:23:03 :-o 18:23:25 yeah it is :) 18:24:00 I use NASM or FASM for everything that I can't do in RetroForth 18:25:08 We need ELF generator. 18:25:33 its a gas gas gas 18:25:37 I don't like Linux for elves. 18:25:46 :P 18:25:47 more of an a.out man 18:25:58 That won't be too hard to do once "save" is working 18:26:01 I like DOS for plain binary. 18:26:10 If you want to metacompile, that's another story... 18:27:29 I'd liked to go like I did in DOS: save plain memory dump into a file. 18:29:23 BTW, if you're interested in "wstat" LEX source, I can send it. 18:29:43 It's 28 lines long. 18:30:23 Even less. 18:31:35 Sure. can you email it to me? 18:32:44 Saving a memory dump to a file... that might be doable. 18:45:31 crc. http://www.forthfreak.de/wiki/index.cgi?LexForWordStat 18:45:43 OK? 18:46:15 ok 18:46:46 I'll give it a try later tonight when I return to the world of Linux :-) 18:48:34 * crc wishes that Linux had a driver for his modem 18:49:53 On memory dump. 18:50:11 In DOS I can use memory dump as executable file. 18:50:18 That's what I mean. 18:50:55 I know how it works in DOS. 18:51:01 AFAIK Linux loads executable at fixed address. 18:51:11 Yes, Linux does. 18:51:18 I'm wondering about Windows 18:51:38 Hence, I need proper ELF header. 18:51:48 Or something of that kind. 18:52:19 Hm. I've got an idea. 18:53:18 When I return into my Linux I'll try it. 18:56:18 --- quit: qFox ("this is mirc's last attempt of communication...") 19:03:51 * crc just fixed a bug in RetroWiki 19:13:29 crc. What format is doc/manual.nbk in? 19:13:38 NoteBook 19:13:54 http://www.wjduquette.com/notebook/ 19:14:01 I've never heard of it before. 19:14:09 It's a wiki-like editor written in tcl/tk 19:14:13 Pretty nice 19:14:42 Yay, I got a brand "new" free P266, with 128M of RAM. Once I get an HD for it, I'll throw linux on it, and it will be a CVS/SVN/file server. 19:14:46 I'll eventually switch to tcn's hypertext notebook (once he finishes it) 19:14:57 madgarden_: cool 19:14:58 What distro of linux should I consider? Gentoo? Debian? 19:15:09 madgarden_: debian 19:15:22 I'd say depends! 19:15:37 fridge: on what? 19:15:44 if you just want a desktop + environment without having to spend ages confiuring petty things, I wouldn't use debian 19:16:06 This box is mostly intended as a file server. 19:16:09 madgarden_ said it was for a file server, cvs/svn 19:16:18 Debian is excellent for that 19:16:36 I'll mostly be PuTTYing in from other machines. 19:16:48 yeah, debian is good on server -- sorry, I didn't see his previous statement 19:17:10 Another fellow is trying to convince me that Gentoo is the shiznit, because of the portage system. 19:17:24 "emerge -u world" 19:17:26 it's a 266 19:17:35 Yes, 266. :) 19:17:39 you don't want to spend 3 days compiling 19:17:43 That I do not! 19:18:01 Debian has net installation. 19:18:39 Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. 19:18:54 Though, there're still the BSD's. 19:22:35 For a basic file server/cvs/svn, I'd just use Linux 19:22:59 BSD servers are excellent if you're running a large site though 19:24:02 Fair enough. 19:24:15 I just want to get something usable running quickly. 19:25:24 After my HDD crashed I've installed Slakware on the first HDD I've found. 19:26:10 Now I've Slackware running on top of 840 MB HDD. 19:27:14 I've got practically no free space, as I need Emacs, TeX and X. 19:27:33 It's strange but it runs. 19:28:40 need emacs? 19:29:00 tried uemacs? 19:29:18 Does it support Cyrillic? 19:30:03 nfi 19:30:10 I need Cyrillic, TeX and X very much. 19:30:26 ahh 19:33:42 Though, I know where I can find free space. 19:34:13 I can rm -rf /usr/src/linux-2.* 19:49:45 who's tom novelli? 19:50:34 tom novelli = tcn 19:50:47 He was the original author of RetroForth 19:50:57 oh 19:50:59 that makes sense 19:51:08 he does other stuff at tunes too right? 19:51:33 He used to. 19:52:04 In 2002 he gave up on the whole idea and has been writing simplified tools for Linux and working on a small, easy to hack OS kernel 19:54:00 His recent programs (and some music) are at http://tom.bespin.org/ 19:58:05 grrrr... I hate it when people make gifs with black foreground and transparent background that are obviously supposed to have a white background. 19:58:31 Any examples? 19:59:32 http://www.gre.ac.uk/%7Ec.walshaw/abc/PaddyORafferty.gif 19:59:35 abc examples page 19:59:46 in xview the whole screen is black 20:01:53 I see 20:05:43 Herkamire: you have a wiki right? 20:15:44 http://herkamire.com/ ? 20:16:16 --- quit: madwork_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:22:57 Thank you ASau 20:25:09 * crc has just added interwiki links to herkamire's wiki from RetroWiki 20:29:30 cool :) 20:30:11 retroforth project looks very very cool 20:30:24 thank you 20:31:08 If I ever get a mac, I want to try herkforth out 20:31:25 I do plan to steal some of your words for RetroForth :-) 20:31:50 cool :) 20:32:12 Mainly the conditional words 20:32:23 =; and friends? 20:32:29 Yes 20:32:33 nice :) 20:32:37 I like them a lot 20:32:41 I wish more Forth systems had them 20:32:59 OK. 20:33:03 yeah 20:33:07 I'll take a look too. 20:33:39 that's one of the things that I find most annoying about gforth. no 0; and friends 20:34:01 it's not hard to implement... but 20:34:29 I'm so glad I documented those words on my wiki :) I just did that within the last 48 hours 20:35:55 does retroforth work under bochs? 20:36:31 RetroForth/Native does 20:36:40 coool :) I'll try it 20:38:37 I'm uploading the latest version right now :-) 20:40:34 Done! http://download.retroforth.org/native.zip 20:40:55 oh, it comes with a bochsrc :) I love you 20:41:03 You're welcome 20:41:45 * crc believes in including the bochsrc he uses to make everyone's lives easier 20:50:04 crc: is rawfloppy really only supposed to be ~9KB? 20:50:20 Yes 20:50:41 That's the size of the kernel, basic extensions, and boot sector 20:51:59 Hm. 20:52:03 Reasonable. 20:52:23 I've done standalone system of that size. 20:53:42 At least 2k of that is ascii source for various words 20:54:01 It would be a lot smaller if I recoded everything in assembly 20:57:42 it doesn't seem to work for me 20:57:58 it get's as far as "booting from floppy" 20:58:35 What version of bochs are you using? 20:59:58 2.1.1 21:00:12 Odd, that's the same version I'm using 21:00:18 Well, I'm to go. 21:00:24 bochsout has lots of messsages like this: read() on floppy image returns 0 21:00:36 Wieder sehen! 21:00:45 --- quit: ASau () 21:00:46 Goodbye ASau 21:00:51 and two like this: partial read() on floppy image returns 16/512 21:00:52 mine does too 21:01:15 huh 21:01:46 Odd. 21:04:38 What OS are you running? 21:05:47 You might need to change the value of display_library 21:10:33 linux on a mac (gentoo) 21:10:41 Using X? 21:10:43 yes 21:10:53 --- quit: warp0b00 ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 21:11:04 is icache support important? 21:11:04 try uncommenting the display_library line in bochsrc 21:11:37 I don't know. I'm running a precompiled version under Windows at the moment 21:13:09 I'll try recompiling bochs with sdl support again. I recall that working before 21:13:44 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 21:13:52 ok 21:15:37 oh, it's in already. it failed when I put the display library to SDL because I didn't also change the keymap. 21:16:01 same results though. it says booting to floppy, then changes the letter at the top left to a red E 21:18:05 That's the error code for a damaged floppy disk. 21:18:12 What's the exact size of rawfloppy? 21:18:30 9232 21:18:55 That's the right size 21:23:55 I'm attempting to create a new disk image from a floppy. It might work better (uses a different boot sector and FAT12) 21:26:05 testing it... 21:26:26 begininng upload... 21:29:23 try this floppy image: http://retroforth.org/rawfloppy.bz2 (492,083 bytes) 21:29:49 With luck it'll work 21:34:33 hi 21:34:36 * crc wonders why the raw floppy image doesn't work on macs 21:34:39 Hi slava 21:34:48 there's a lot of people coding forths these days :) 21:35:00 There are? 21:35:08 * crc looks around in amazement 21:35:31 it'd be nice to have an OSS forth IDE, with a nice GUI word browser, etc 21:35:55 my stuff doesn't count since its not forth and runs on the JVM, and its not "nice" either 21:36:11 Running under what OS? 21:36:24 any OS 21:37:08 I'm in the early stages of a Forth IDE for Windows (complete with visual resource editor and browsable help) 21:37:13 It's a long way off though 21:37:58 any chance of using a cross platform GUI? 21:38:53 I might use gtk 21:39:09 Or possibly SDL and code my own gui elements over it 21:39:15 Not 100% sure yet 21:39:17 hmm, that last one sounds fun :) 21:39:39 I've wanted to do a GUI library in SDL for a long time, so this might give me an excuse to try it 21:39:42 might be the best -- since conventional GUI APIs are designed with C in mind 21:39:49 ie, long argument lists and such. 21:39:49 True. 21:40:10 using Java Swing GUI toolkit is quite painful in postfix syntax for instance 21:40:18 its an extreme case tho 21:40:19 And I have a version of RetroForth which can already use SDL to provide a graphics layer 21:40:34 even the java code is all like foo().getBar().getQuuxFactory().newInstance(new XYZ(),... 21:40:44 esp. complex controls like JTree and JTable *ugh* 21:40:45 I know :-) 21:41:01 Java was ok in the early (JDK 1.0 days and earlier) 21:41:02 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-74-218-202.san.rr.com) joined #forth 21:41:09 no java 1.0 was worse 21:41:12 Hello kc5tja 21:41:16 hi kc5tja 21:41:16 Why? 21:41:16 IMHO 21:41:22 it was basically useless 21:41:31 now its more bloated, but at least you can write decent apps with it. 21:41:31 Not for what it was intended for 21:41:32 go sdl :) 21:41:39 hi Herkamire 21:41:42 Herkamire, when can we try your herkforth? 21:41:53 You can! 21:42:00 crc, true; it was intended for applets, now its used mainly for hairy server-side apps 21:42:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 21:42:12 greetings, if only briefly. 21:42:38 aww 21:42:40 :( 21:42:48 how come? 21:43:02 Because I have a full-time job that actually has normal working hours. 21:43:11 slava: http://herkamire.com/jason/herkforth 21:44:00 hey guys 21:44:45 as -mregnames -o kernel.s.o kernel.s 21:44:45 /usr/libexec/elf/as: unrecognized option `-mregnames' 21:44:48 kc5tja: well, if you go there at 9am, you have to wake at 8am 21:44:49 oops! 21:44:56 Herkamire, i'm using quite old binutils (this is fbsd 4.x) 21:44:59 kc5tja: so, you can stay up until 11-12 21:45:10 :) 21:45:14 slava: herkforth has been available for a long time. You need linux on a ppc to run it though 21:46:23 Herkamire, i see 21:47:22 If you had a copy of Linux for PPC, you could try it under PearPC :-) 21:47:57 you guys should listen to warpzero radio 21:48:27 yeah, it kicks ass 21:48:40 RADIO http://wza.us:8000/high.ogg || http://wza.us:8000/low.ogg || http://wza.us:8000/high.mp3 [streaming audio - open in a player] 21:48:52 i would if it wasn't past midnight and my folks were asleep 21:49:11 headphones 21:49:38 slava: headphones 21:50:06 good idea 21:51:43 warpzero: AC/DC by request!!! :) 21:51:48 warpzero: thanks :) 21:53:40 np 21:59:55 brb 21:59:56 --- quit: crc ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7b/20040316]") 21:59:57 --- quit: rsync ("Lost terminal") 22:01:19 --- join: crc (~Charles_C@0-1pool88-54.nas48.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 22:01:35 back! 22:01:51 Welcome Back Charles C :) 22:01:59 Thank you :-) 22:06:39 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:07:19 hello serg 22:08:08 hi 22:08:28 * Serg is damn busy - accounting dbaswe glitches 22:11:33 arke: I need more than six hours of sleep to function. 22:11:46 that would be 8 hours 22:11:49 I've been staying up way too late lately, and I'm seriously feeling it. 22:24:39 Bedtime. 22:24:40 Peace out. 22:24:49 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 22:41:08 peace out? 22:41:13 what about... 22:41:16 war out! 22:41:20 hi futhin 22:41:52 kung fu forthers, fast as lightning 22:42:25 here goes futhin, stirring up trouble again 22:47:22 yalol 22:48:24 yalol? 22:50:48 ya 22:50:50 lol 22:51:45 ya? 22:52:17 ya. 22:58:05 lol. 22:58:08 ya.lo. 22:58:11 doh! 22:58:14 i broke the chain! 22:58:22 yes crc, i'm a flyby operator 22:58:41 my goal is to introduce chaos and change so that people are smarter for it 23:03:19 its carefully tailored to be noise-free and paradigm challenging. and don't forget to buckle up when time travelling! 23:11:11 I have no intention of time travelling 23:41:53 you already are. muwahahahaha 23:42:40 No. I remain firmly rooted outside of the realm of time. 23:57:58 --- quit: Serg () 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.05.25